ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

[ClaretTony]

That’s why Tony wants this deal done quick before Rishi whacks up the CGT to pay for furlough!

Tony now has a very small number of shares

[randomclaret2]

That sounds about right - but, don't forget your Capital Gains Tax situation.

UTC

What rate is Capital Gains Tax levied at Paul ?

[NewClaret]

Tony now has a very small number of shares

[Paul Waine]

What rate is Capital Gains Tax levied at Paul ?

Conveniently, The Times had an article on CGT today (Thurs):

At present anyone selling shares, a second home or other assets is liable to pay capital gains tax on the profits they have made from the sale.

Those earning less than £50,000 are charged 18 per cent on residential property and 10 per cent on profits from other assets. For those whose income is more than £50,000 the tax is 28 per cent on residential property and 20 per cent on other assets.

In its report for the Treasury, the Office of Tax Simplification (OTS) suggested that the chancellor bring CGT into line with income tax. This would mean higher rate taxpayers facing a flat rate of 40 per cent or 45 per cent.

In a separate recommendation the OTS suggested that the chancellor could reduce the threshold at which the levy kicked in from £12,300 to £5,000. This would double the number falling into the net each year to more than half a million. This would be tripled if he cut the threshold further to £1,000.

[randomclaret2]

So 10% for those earning under £50k, and 20% for those earning over ?

[BenWickes]

Ben. I know you can’t name your source and I’m not trying to get you do this. But from memory you’d originally heard about meetings from the Egyptian bid and the town council and it was via a rovers supporting relative.
Now you appear to be equally well informed about both bids.
Has your source changed from the original one?

The original information was indeed as you suggest although at that time it was unclear the connection between Egypt and the Americans who were having meetings. This has snowballed on from there and I have invested more time into it.
I do know people involved in the legal side of international sporting events, one of which is a good friend. It would have been remiss of me not to enquire if they knew anything. People talk in those circles.
So in answer to your question. The original source information has proven correct . There have just been more sources putting meat onto the bones.

[Tall Paul]

Hi Tall Paul, technical answer to this will be in the company's Articles of Association - copy filed on Companies House records. Let's assume that it does require a vote by Board of Directors - and let's assume some directors vote against sale of shares to a new investor offering to buy all shares and become the new owner of the club then there will be an issue for the board to resolve. Depending who is for and who is against, I can imagine the board being able to sort it out, possibly by forcing the dissenting directors to resign - or possibly by shareholder vote - where MG starts with 49% of the vote.

UTC

So that could potentially hold up any deal, no?

[scouseclaret]

So 10% for those earning under £50k, and 20% for those earning over ?

Remember that you don’t pay any tax on the first £12,300 of gains, so it probably won’t be an issue for most of us who own only a few shares (assuming, of course, you haven’t realised gains elsewhere).

[Nonayforever]

Could any of, or any combination of, those 5 hold any potential deal up ?

If there are 5 directors, there are 5 votes irrespective of the amount of shares they hold.

[Paul Waine]

If there are 5 directors, there are 5 votes irrespective of the amount of shares they hold.

Agreed. If the directors vote and the vote is tied - let's imagine your 5 and one doesn't cast their vote, or there are 6 directors and 3 vote on each side - then the Chairman has a casting vote.

More importantly, if the directors are taking decisions that the shareholders don't agree with, there will be arrangements that allow the shareholders to vote to dismiss directors. It's in that case that MG's 49% results in his decisions being carried out.

All these things, if they were required, would take time. If a director was to resign it would very quickly be in the public domain, including being recorded at Companies House.

UTC

[Paul Waine]

So that could potentially hold up any deal, no?

see my post above.

[onewillieirvine]

Nothing happens quickly at The Turf, indeed it took us 27 years to go from top to bottom

[winsomeyen]

Thats what I thought Doug, but reading some of the earlier posts hinting that certain of the 5 may be ensuring they get the best deal for themselves has me wondering

Surely not, the board members are all Clarets who only want the best for the club.

[MACCA]

Surely not, the board members are all Clarets who only want the best for their bank.

Many would agree with that..

[Chester Perry]

Interesting shenanigans at Charlton that have prompted this comment from "The Price of Football's" Kieran Maguire

"I’d rather be given a reacharound by Edward Scissorhands this have Chris Farnell at my club so hope that things are sorted quickly at Charlton."

https://twitter.com/CAStrust/status/1326988617865162761

[NewClaret]

see my post above.

You’d imagine they want MG/JB’s shares and that it would be those two leading the negotiations. Assuming they’re rowing in the same direction, no hold-ups stopping this. The other shareholders then have the right to sell their shares or hold on to them, but I wouldn’t imagine many would want to given their limited influence and knowledge that they may be removed from the Board?

The only tricky scenario I could see is a disagreement between MG/JB on the preferred bidder. That would leave them in a position unable to pass the 75% threshold. IF all the other shareholders agreed with him it would also prevent a controlling stake?

Personally imagine that to be very, very unlikely and that they will be very much aligned.

A nice position would be for some of the existing Board to remain in place after sale (even if their shares are sold) to allow the club to transition properly. I hope that’s the case anyway.

[Chester Perry]

A nice position would be for some of the existing Board to remain in place after sale (even if their shares are sold) to allow the club to transition properly. I hope that’s the case anyway.

There have been a number of clubs that have tried that with foreign takeovers - struggling to think of one where it has been successful certainly at Rovers and West Brom it was incredibly fractious

[Paul Waine]

You’d imagine they want MG/JB’s shares and that it would be those two leading the negotiations. Assuming they’re rowing in the same direction, no hold-ups stopping this. The other shareholders then have the right to sell their shares or hold on to them, but I wouldn’t imagine many would want to given their limited influence and knowledge that they may be removed from the Board?

The only tricky scenario I could see is a disagreement between MG/JB on the preferred bidder. That would leave them in a position unable to pass the 75% threshold. IF all the other shareholders agreed with him it would also prevent a controlling stake?

Personally imagine that to be very, very unlikely and that they will be very much aligned.

A nice position would be for some of the existing Board to remain in place after sale (even if their shares are sold) to allow the club to transition properly. I hope that’s the case anyway.

I'd imagine any new investor will want 100% of the shares and full control of what they are investing in - unless there is a deal to be made with MG that he retains some shares, say 10%, and remains a director.

If posters on this mb can come up with divisions between the existing directors - whether this is factual or not - do you think any new investor would want to buy into such divisions and risk having their own plans disrupted by any directors that remain on the board after they've invested?

UTC

[claretonthecoast1882]

Interesting shenanigans at Charlton that have prompted this comment from "The Price of Football's" Kieran Maguire

"I’d rather be given a reacharound by Edward Scissorhands this have Chris Farnell at my club so hope that things are sorted quickly at Charlton."

https://twitter.com/CAStrust/status/1326988617865162761

Some will say that is a bit harsh on poor Chris, he can't be blamed for constantly being involved in basket case clubs

[Danieljwaterhouse]

I'd imagine any new investor will want 100% of the shares and full control of what they are investing in - unless there is a deal to be made with MG that he retains some shares, say 10%, and remains a director.

If posters on this mb can come up with divisions between the existing directors - whether this is factual or not - do you think any new investor would want to buy into such divisions and risk having their own plans disrupted by any directors that remain on the board after they've invested?

UTC

It depends which board member is backing which bid...

Hypothetically, If say Flood was backing the second bid, and was seeking to retain and even expand his holding and place on the board, the bid wouldn’t seek to replace him as he is currently a useful voice into a room they can’t get into.

Adversely, a bid may seek to remove the entire board to remove any such concerns about a continuing member turning rogue.

[Paul Waine]

It depends which board member is backing which bid...

Hypothetically, If say Flood was backing the second bid, and was seeking to retain and even expand his holding and place on the board, the bid wouldn’t seek to replace him as he is currently a useful voice into a room they can’t get into.

Adversely, a bid may seek to remove the entire board to remove any such concerns about a continuing member turning rogue.

I don't feel easy about any director backing any bids if they are an undisclosed party in that bid. Conflicts of interest come to mind. If any of our directors had been involved with either of the two bidders, as reported in the media, I'd have expected their connection with X or Y director and participation of X or Y in their bid to have been included in their media reports as it can be given a positive spin.

However, if any of our directors have the money to invest in the club alongside new investors, where were they with their investment over the summer and the transfer window? Has someone recently "won the pools" and got new money to spend that they didn't have a few weeks back?

UTC

[Mala591]

Has BFC (Garlick) issued a detailed 'Sellers/Buyer's Prospectus' in order to attract as many potentially interested parties as possible? If the answer is yes then where can I request a copy?

My instinct/gut reaction about the information available so far is that we are teetering on the knife edge of disaster and that NEITHER of the two bidders are convincing about where the necessary massive cash injection is coming from.

I'd be much more comfortable with a more open and democratically structured sale process with season ticket holders being involved in the final decision on the preferred bidder.

[9thMay1987]

I see we have a new sponsership for the Bob Lord- no longer Mr Garlick's company, could be significant.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I see we have a new sponsership for the Bob Lord- no longer Mr Garlick's company, could be significant.

Lets hope for longtimelurkers sake there isn't RIGG logos all over the place

[Chester Perry]

I see we have a new sponsership for the Bob Lord- no longer Mr Garlick's company, could be significant.

Probably just more money - the club have been working hard at that - Also new sponsorship of the Cricketfield stand from a Padiham company as the Ladbrokes sponsorship ended last season

[Danieljwaterhouse]

I don't feel easy about any director backing any bids if they are an undisclosed party in that bid. Conflicts of interest come to mind. If any of our directors had been involved with either of the two bidders, as reported in the media, I'd have expected their connection with X or Y director and participation of X or Y in their bid to have been included in their media reports as it can be given a positive spin.

However, if any of our directors have the money to invest in the club alongside new investors, where were they with their investment over the summer and the transfer window? Has someone recently "won the pools" and got new money to spend that they didn't have a few weeks back?

UTC

Seeking finance is quite easy once you have an asset to offset.

That being said, interest rates for investment in a football club could be eye watering!

[Danieljwaterhouse]

Has BFC (Garlick) issued a detailed 'Sellers/Buyer's Prospectus' in order to attract as many potentially interested parties as possible? If the answer is yes then where can I request a copy?

My instinct/gut reaction about the information available so far is that we are teetering on the knife edge of disaster and that NEITHER of the two bidders are convincing about where the necessary massive cash injection is coming from.

I'd be much more comfortable with a more open and democratically structured sale process with season ticket holders being involved in the final decision on the preferred bidder.

Used a broker...

[NewClaret]

Just a thought, but is the timing of yesterday's statement in any way significant?

It seems odd to post it literally weeks after the last piece of news. Either we are really, really slow at releasing statements or we're expecting some more news to break shortly?

[NewClaret]

I'd imagine any new investor will want 100% of the shares and full control of what they are investing in - unless there is a deal to be made with MG that he retains some shares, say 10%, and remains a director.

If posters on this mb can come up with divisions between the existing directors - whether this is factual or not - do you think any new investor would want to buy into such divisions and risk having their own plans disrupted by any directors that remain on the board after they've invested?

UTC

I suppose the prospect I was considering was more that the shares are sold but their services are retained to aid the transition. They then become employee's, so in effect can be terminated at the new owner's behest if they become trouble.

Agree they would like 100% but as far as I know, the minor shareholders cannot be forced to sell, so they may not get that wish if some want to hold on.

[NewClaret]

There have been a number of clubs that have tried that with foreign takeovers - struggling to think of one where it has been successful certainly at Rovers and West Brom it was incredibly fractious

In those circumstances did they retain shareholdings?

[Chester Perry]

In those circumstances did they retain shareholdings?

Rovers definitely not - minor shareholdings at West Brom i think

[Dark Cloud]

I suspect it's more that they picked up that speculation (and a degree of anxiety) is absolutely rife and they wanted to offer a crumb of reassurance and calm things a little. It obviously won't work, but personally I was glad to see the words about looking after the spirit and community at the heart of our club, even though I do realise that ultimately words are cheap.

[ClaretTony]

If there are 5 directors, there are 5 votes irrespective of the amount of shares they hold.

I don’t think that will be the case. It will in the end only need Garlick to agree the deal.

[Chester Perry]

In those circumstances did they retain shareholdings?

If you want to know about the chaos at Rovers try this - 10 years next Thursday since they took over

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... start=5834

[ClaretTony]

On the subject of Farnell, and I know this has been posted on the Charlton thread, but I'm assuming he's the one who has sent that letter demanding that the owner of Charlton departs.

[whentheballmoves]

Based on the figures being discussed, each share is roughly worth between £1,500 and £1,800.

Wowsers!

Someone mentioned CGT...as a complete numpty, how much is that?

I have literally a few, but this could/would be a very welcome windfall, especially in the current financial climate!

[whentheballmoves]

Remember that you don’t pay any tax on the first £12,300 of gains, so it probably won’t be an issue for most of us who own only a few shares (assuming, of course, you haven’t realised gains elsewhere).

Ignore my previous post, this seems to clear that up, thanks!

What would happen if a co-op type society had a number of shares? Are they exempt from CGT?

This is something I hadn't even considered previously, to be honest...

[Danieljwaterhouse]

I see there has been movement around local councils merging, to form one larger body. It seems the proposed devolution is starting to gain traction.....

I wonder if the naysayers will be back out to call this out as rubbish...

When will they learn?

[ewanrob]

Can we start a new thread, where only those in the know can post.....would save a lot of time and angst....apologies to others who have posted, but I just want to read the meaty stuff.

Let's call it "Deepthroat"
Danjw, ClaretTony, Chester Perry, Paul Wayne, Ben WIckes...sorry can't remember others.

[TheFamilyCat]

Can we start a new thread, where only those in the know can post.....would save a lot of time and angst....apologies to others who have posted, but I just want to read the meaty stuff.

Let's call it "Deepthroat"
Danjw, ClaretTony, Chester Perry, Paul Wayne, Ben WIckes...sorry can't remember others.

Linda Lovelace

[ewanrob]

All the Presidents Men

[AndyClaret]

I see there has been movement around local councils merging, to form one larger body. It seems the proposed devolution is starting to gain traction.....

I wonder if the naysayers will be back out to call this out as rubbish...

When will they learn?

Link ?

[Danieljwaterhouse]

Link ?

https://www.in-cumbria.com/news/1886765 ... p-forward/

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Well another week gone by and surprisingly nothing has happened again!

[BleedingClaret]

Well another week gone by and surprisingly nothing has happened again!

I don’t thing anything will happen.
Our only selling point is our Premier League place (or our land )
If we were performing like Villa or Saints then that’d be still in play.
As it is, to most observers, it would seem w
that we’re going down.
Just like the transfer window, we’re in limbo so inertia is the state that we find ourselves in.

[maccclaret]

Well another week gone by and surprisingly nothing has happened again!

Welcome to the world of corporate takeovers.

See you, same time, same place next week.

[Nonayforever]

I don’t think that will be the case. It will in the end only need Garlick to agree the deal.

If a scenario occurred whereby MG cast his vote for deal A & 4 other directors cast their vote for deal B, there could be a situation where the board would have to call an extraordinary general meeting to find the 2% of votes needed to decide the outcome.

[AndyClaret]

https://www.in-cumbria.com/news/1886765 ... p-forward/

Cumbria? You've lost me...

[Duffer_]

I see there has been movement around local councils merging, to form one larger body. It seems the proposed devolution is starting to gain traction.....

I wonder if the naysayers will be back out to call this out as rubbish...

When will they learn?

Reminds me of someone ...

20201113_191748.jpg (78.89 KiB) Viewed 2917 times

Aye, that's the fella

[Dark Cloud]

Some will say that is a bit harsh on poor Chris, he can't be blamed for constantly being involved in basket case clubs

Or for being some kind of vulture who can smell them out!!??? And whilst we're definitely not a basket case club, in fact far from it, I increasingly fear we may quickly become one if we allow this shyster through the door. MG needs to bag him and his dodgy, Walter Mitty mates off and just deal with credible people. It's not like he's absolutely strapped for cash (I assume ) and needs an instant sale to the first chancer through the door.