ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

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Dyched
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Dyched » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:38 am

dsr wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:33 am
Of course we could. But that's no argument for ditching what we have now.
I got confused with your first post with the Man City/Blackburn reference. I thought you meant Man Citys titles vs Blackburns 1 before eventually ending up where they are rather than using the Venkys as the starting point for your point about takeovers.

If that makes sense.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:44 am

Dyched wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:18 am
We spent around £5m more than what we sold in 2015/16 so not sure what that point is.

Imagine if I left off our wage bills over those years :shock:

It’s okay saying we sold players over time for large amounts like Michael Keane, Andre Gray, Ings, Vokes, Heaton. But you’ve also ignored that their replacements wages are far more than they ever got. Tarkowski was bought whilst Keane was here but has since signed a new contract that will far out do what Keane got here. Wood will be on more than Gray. Some of our second string Vydra, Brady, J Rod will be on far more than what our first choice players were on 4-5 years ago.

My point is you can’t just look at what we’ve received and spent.

Gray sold for about £18m. Wood bought for about £14/15m. That £3/4m profit probably would have gone to Chris Wood over the past few years on wages.
But surely the owners realise it’s an evolving business in terms of wages and fees? They were happy enough to take the plaudits of being a ‘well run club’. Two top ten finishes in the past three seasons and we’ve taken advantage of neither in the transfer market.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:50 am

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:44 am
But surely the owners realise it’s an evolving business in terms of wages and fees? They were happy enough to take the plaudits of being a ‘well run club’. Two top ten finishes in the past three seasons and we’ve taken advantage of neither in the transfer market.
I'm fairly sure they've twigged that it's an evolving business from when they've taken over to now :lol:

The club has evolved on that journey, in some ways its unrecognisable compared to, say, 10 years ago.

They've reached their limits and have realised the club needs help to kick on, hence the potential sale.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Grumps » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:46 am

Apparently our Egyptian friend is speaking to the Premier league tomorrow, and the Americans have increased their bid...... According to nixon.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by claretandy » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:51 am

Grumps wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:46 am
Apparently our Egyptian friend is speaking to the Premier league tomorrow, and the Americans have increased their bid...... According to nixon.
Is that in the paper ? can you post a pic ?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Grumps » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:06 am

claretandy wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:51 am
Is that in the paper ? can you post a pic ?
Yes... And... No

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:15 am

'Show us the MONEY'

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Charlton Boy » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:17 am

.
Last edited by Charlton Boy on Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Aclaret » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:21 am

Let's hope that's the case Charlton Boy before they get too deep into the takeover.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Grumps » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:38 am

Charlton Boy wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:17 am
Hearing from the Charlton end that Farnell and El Kashay has fallen through because (you guessed it) they couldn’t prove the funds. Not ITK on this, just reporting what we’re hearing from our side, as a number of Charlton fans have an interest in this takeover.

I really hope it’s right.
Just shows how much misinformation is out there
If you're right, the reports of them already having shown proof of funds are wrong
If you're wrong you've got false info

Perhaps nobody knows, only those involved?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by mill hill claret » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:41 am

So we have been talking to them for more than a year .and they have no money ???
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Top Claret » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:44 am

If the Americans are privy to the same information as Charlton, they won't be upping their bid.

I think Grumps is right nobody knows only those involved

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Charlton Boy » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:46 am

Grumps wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:38 am
Just shows how much misinformation is out there
If you're right, the reports of them already having shown proof of funds are wrong
If you're wrong you've got false info

Perhaps nobody knows, only those involved?
As I’ve said previously, I wouldn't listen to a word Nixon says.
Last edited by Charlton Boy on Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by MACCA » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:52 am

Charlton Boy wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:46 am
As I’ve said previously, don’t listen to a word Nixon says. He was Farnells mouth piece when at us, and I will go as far as saying everything he said Charlton relates was incorrect. Pathetic excuse for a journalist.
That will be music to the ears of many posters on hear, some couldnt stand him long before this takeover talk and Farnell link.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Dark Cloud » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:02 am

Farnell fronting a dodgy take over bid backed by Walter Mitty and the Invisible (but mega rich!) Man. Crumbs, who'd have thought it!? Him being such a credible guy and all.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Goobs » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:02 am

Hope this is true as really didn't have a good feeling about their bid.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Grumps » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:19 am

Charlton Boy wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:46 am
As I’ve said previously, don’t listen to a word Nixon says. He was Farnells mouth piece when at us, and I will go as far as saying everything he said Charlton relates was incorrect. Pathetic excuse for a journalist.
Not referring to nixon in this context

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Top Claret » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:23 am

I know one thing though the board need to get this done.
Garlick must realise that relegation this season is a distinct possibility, if the club isn't sold its value will plumit with the clubs future.

Garlick got lucky with Dyche who as worked miracles to keep us at this level for 5 seasons with such a small budget. But for Dyche we would now be struggling at championship level or below, with Garlick having to put his hands in his pockets to keep the club afloat
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Royboyclaret » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:42 am

Top Claret wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:23 am
I know one thing though the board need to get this done.
Garlick must realise that relegation this season is a distinct possibility, if the club isn't sold its value will plumit with the clubs future.

Garlick got lucky with Dyche who as worked miracles to keep us at this level for 5 seasons with such a small budget. But for Dyche we would now be struggling at championship level or below, with Garlick having to put his hands in his pockets to keep the club afloat
Something he is not afraid to do, and in fact has done on more than one occasion over the last decade. One of those substantial loans he even converted into equity, a proper Burnley fan. You appear to have a poor and irrational opinion of our Chairman, someone who has proved invaluable to our great Club over recent years.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:46 am

Got lucky with Dyche or did a proper and thorough interview process and picked the best candidate for the job?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Tribesmen » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:49 am

mill hill claret wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:41 am
So we have been talking to them for more than a year .and they have no money ???
The wife has been talking to me for 30 years and i still don't have any money :shock:
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Royboyclaret » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:53 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:46 am
Got lucky with Dyche or did a proper and thorough interview process and picked the best candidate for the job?
You'd like to think the second, Sidney, after all that is his area of expertise. But, as with all such appointments, there was also no doubt an element of good fortune involved.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:55 am

Royboyclaret wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:53 am
You'd like to think the second, Sidney, after all that is his area of expertise. But, as with all such appointments, there was also no doubt an element of good fortune involved.
Oh I accept that there's always an element of good fortune, but for people to sit here and say it was just luck is bizarre.

There seems to be a constant theme on here lately, to belittle the achievements of the board who've worked in tandem with Dyche and just credit Dyche with everything.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Rileybobs » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:59 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:55 am
Oh I accept that there's always an element of good fortune, but for people to sit here and say it was just luck is bizarre.

There seems to be a constant theme on here lately, to belittle the achievements of the board who've worked in tandem with Dyche and just credit Dyche with everything.
It’s lazy. There has been very little criticism of Garlick until the past few months. People are understandably frustrated at the current predicament but are unwilling, or unable, to engage their brains and instead just blame the man at the top.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Duffer_ » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:00 pm

Is it "right" that MG walks away with £100m (pre tax) after 14 years as a director? Feel free to define "right" however you like.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Royboyclaret » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:04 pm

Duffer_ wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:00 pm
Is it "right" that MG walks away with £100m (pre tax) after 14 years as a director? Feel free to define "right" however you like.
It's his 49.24% entitlement, if that's what eventually transpires.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:21 pm

Duffer_ wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:00 pm
Is it "right" that MG walks away with £100m (pre tax) after 14 years as a director? Feel free to define "right" however you like.
As majority shareholder he walks away with whatever he gets for those shares, whether that's £100 million or £100.
His job as majority shareholder is to ensure he gets good return on his investment and I'm not sure anyone could begrudge him getting a lot of money.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Duffer_ » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:32 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:21 pm
His job as majority shareholder is to ensure he gets good return on his investment...
Has MG ever cited shareholder wealth maximisation as his goal? In 2017 when he was appointed sole Chairman he said "We [MG and JB] will both continue to strive to better our club for the benefit of our fans and our community, along with all connected to our very unique football club."

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:34 pm

Duffer_ wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:00 pm
Is it "right" that MG walks away with £100m (pre tax) after 14 years as a director? Feel free to define "right" however you like.
Very much doubt we’ll be valued at the full £200m being reported.

Also think there will be a large chunk of that based retaining PL status this year certainly and probably next, in which case he wouldn’t get all that in one go and possibly not at all.

I think our approach to previous transfer windows (not just last summer) have been with this takeover in mind. I think MG has been fattening the turkey both in terms of cash pile and future player commitments to increase the clubs value.

That said, one thing we do have going for us from a new owners perspective is a fairly clean slate now - chance to clear the decks with so many OOC players and very few (if any?) commitments remaining, meaning they have free reign.

But I think we’ll see January signings if a takeover doesn’t goes through. They’ll know the value of their asset drops like a stone without PL status, so will surely want to try and preserve that or they could be stuck with the club for another 5 years?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Top Claret » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:40 pm

Duffer_ wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:00 pm
Is it "right" that MG walks away with £100m (pre tax) after 14 years as a director? Feel free to define "right" however you like.
I have no problem with Garlick walking away with 100 billion that is fine by me. What I don't like is the damage this long drawn out takeover is doing to the club, in which the blame lies with Garlick

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Dark Cloud » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:43 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:42 am
Something he is not afraid to do, and in fact has done on more than one occasion over the last decade. One of those substantial loans he even converted into equity, a proper Burnley fan. You appear to have a poor and irrational opinion of our Chairman, someone who has proved invaluable to our great Club over recent years.
The thing is Roy, like most people on here I totally agree with you. MG has presided over the best period in our history since I was a teenager and he's proved himself to be both an excellent businessman where the club is concerned as well as a proper fan. That being the case I do trust him implicitly up to now to be doing all the right things from a BFC point of view regarding the selling of the club. Even his clear rift with Dyche I believe was caused initially by Dyche overstepping the mark and going public regarding their differences over spending and transfers and if I was MG it would have annoyed me too. However, the post referred to said if the club was to be sold, it really needed getting done, as this "limbo" situation was clearly causing us a multitude of problems and we could be in the swampy wetlands known as The Championship before it gets done and there's plenty of fish in there already awash with cash, but still unable to climb out of it.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:09 pm

Top Claret wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:23 am
I know one thing though the board need to get this done.
Garlick must realise that relegation this season is a distinct possibility, if the club isn't sold its value will plumit with the clubs future.

Garlick got lucky with Dyche who as worked miracles to keep us at this level for 5 seasons with such a small budget. But for Dyche we would now be struggling at championship level or below, with Garlick having to put his hands in his pockets to keep the club afloat
Unbelievably lucky with Dyche and that appointment wasn't a unanimous one with an already fractured board.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by lrac » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:10 pm

This story just sounds fubar :shock:

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:12 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:46 am
Got lucky with Dyche or did a proper and thorough interview process and picked the best candidate for the job?
Both - at the time I thought we were carrying out too many interviews with too many potential candidates. The two co-chairmen and Lee Hoos were the three mainly involved at that stage. I believe others, such as Barry Kilby, came in during the latter stages. You can never know how a managerial appointment will work out, no matter how vigilant you are so there is always a huge element of luck in it.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:18 pm

Some confusion in recent posts over the current situation regarding Elkashashy and Farnell. Nixon was it that says he's meeting the Premier League tomorrow and Charlton saying it has fallen through.

All I know is that the Elkashasy/Farnell offer is currently with the Premier League who are checking their suitability via the owners and directors test. I've heard nothing one way or the other as to which way that may go. For that to be considered, they will have to have provided proof of funding. I also know the ALK deal isn't dead. I'm led to believe that all this northern powerhouse talk is a bit like wild fantasy but the American offer, and they already have other links in Lancashire, is still very much active.

I have been in contact with Charlton since the day the Elkashasy/Farnell deal became public. I last heard from them two days ago with some information on a contact of Farnell but nothing on this possible speculation. I've also been involved the FSA who are looking at other avenues and I'll be picking things up with them tomorrow.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by dibraidio » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:18 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:34 pm
Very much doubt we’ll be valued at the full £200m being reported.

Also think there will be a large chunk of that based retaining PL status this year certainly and probably next, in which case he wouldn’t get all that in one go and possibly not at all.

I think our approach to previous transfer windows (not just last summer) have been with this takeover in mind. I think MG has been fattening the turkey both in terms of cash pile and future player commitments to increase the clubs value.

That said, one thing we do have going for us from a new owners perspective is a fairly clean slate now - chance to clear the decks with so many OOC players and very few (if any?) commitments remaining, meaning they have free reign.

But I think we’ll see January signings if a takeover doesn’t goes through. They’ll know the value of their asset drops like a stone without PL status, so will surely want to try and preserve that or they could be stuck with the club for another 5 years?
BFC has a turnover of over 130 million a year and a squad that could be worth as much. What makes you doubt that valuation of 200m?
If someone offers to buy the shares why would there be conditions? We're not talking about buying a player.

I think our approach in previous transfer windows has been based on balancing the books. The only time we've spent big is when we've sold players. SD has made the decision to keep the players he has rather than sell the better ones and buy new ones hoping they might step up to the mark.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by arise_sir_charge » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:44 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:18 pm

I have been in contact with Charlton since the day the Elkashasy/Farnell deal became public. I last heard from them two days ago with some information on a contact of Farnell but nothing on this possible speculation. I've also been involved the FSA who are looking at other avenues and I'll be picking things up with them tomorrow.
Looking at other avenues for what?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Murger » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:53 pm

If it turns out the Farnell/El Kash have no money, it doesn't make Garlicks negotiations look good does it?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:58 pm

dibraidio wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:18 pm
BFC has a turnover of over 130 million a year and a squad that could be worth as much. What makes you doubt that valuation of 200m?
If someone offers to buy the shares why would there be conditions? We're not talking about buying a player.

I think our approach in previous transfer windows has been based on balancing the books. The only time we've spent big is when we've sold players. SD has made the decision to keep the players he has rather than sell the better ones and buy new ones hoping they might step up to the mark.
Mainly the risk that it halves if we get relegated and we almost presumably become significantly loss making (albeit I don’t know what terms are in players contracts to protect against this). Also the risks associated with Covid - currently no visibility on when we may have capacity crowds again.

Time will tell, of course, but even if they pay £200m I think for certain there will be clauses withholding some of that cash based on future performance/PL status.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:18 pm

Murger wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:53 pm
If it turns out the Farnell/El Kash have no money, it doesn't make Garlicks negotiations look good does it?
It's happened so often at so many clubs. That's one of the purposes of the owners and directors test and if that was the case with this or any other offer for our club then we have the advantage of being in the Premier League and not the Football League. The Premier League are far more thorough.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Grumps » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:26 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:18 pm
It's happened so often at so many clubs. That's one of the purposes of the owners and directors test and if that was the case with this or any other offer for our club then we have the advantage of being in the Premier League and not the Football League. The Premier League are far more thorough.
So if they pass the thorough test will they be accepted at our club?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:27 pm

Grumps wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:26 pm
So if they pass the thorough test will they be accepted at our club?
It is a case of them not being able to purchase a Premier League club if they fail the test. If they do clear the O&D test then it allows our club to negotiate a sale with them.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:30 pm

If they come up with the proof of funds, from a legitimate source, they will be the preferred offer, as to how much of their ‘roadmap’ funding is viable and legitimate is open to scrutiny

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:37 pm

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:30 pm
If they come up with the proof of funds, from a legitimate source, they will be the preferred offer, as to how much of their ‘roadmap’ funding is viable and legitimate is open to scrutiny
This is a big concern for us regarding both of the offers, we don't know where the money is coming from. I believe the ALK offer is money coming from a number of investors, the other offer I've no idea.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ewanrob » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:39 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:09 pm
Unbelievably lucky with Dyche and that appointment wasn't a unanimous one with an already fractured board.
When you say fractured Tony, is that one individual who's causing the issues...or a number of people with their own agenda's ?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:42 pm

ewanrob wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:39 pm
When you say fractured Tony, is that one individual who's causing the issues...or a number of people with their own agenda's ?
Well we know we had the Flood v Holt and Flood v Garlick situations a while ago that were very public. I don't think we've ever had anything like a united board since but the situation now seems to be that the chairman virtually does things his own way which he can do with his shareholding, not quite Bob Lord style but .......

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by jtv » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:45 pm

Tony, in your opinion, are relations between MG and BK are strained?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Grumps » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:46 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:37 pm
This is a big concern for us regarding both of the offers, we don't know where the money is coming from. I believe the ALK offer is money coming from a number of investors, the other offer I've no idea.
If someone passes all the tests, are we as fans entitled to know where the money is coming from though?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:51 pm

jtv wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:45 pm
Tony, in your opinion, are relations between MG and BK are strained?
Not to my knowledge

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:51 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:18 pm
It's happened so often at so many clubs. That's one of the purposes of the owners and directors test and if that was the case with this or any other offer for our club then we have the advantage of being in the Premier League and not the Football League. The Premier League are far more thorough.
You’d think after 12 months of talks one of the first things they would ask for would be proof of funds!

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