ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

[Newcastleclaret93]

How is it looking ‘likely’ we will end up like Bolton, or Wigan.

It’s not hate though, is it? I have concerns, and I have no issue with journalists putting the spotlight on our takeover, but I’m prepared to wait more than 4 weeks before I make up my mind.

under the new ownership with the debt and lack of finance I see us more likely to be the next Bolton that the next Leicester/Southampton. Nothing more to support it, just my opinion.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

How is it looking ‘likely’ we will end up like Bolton, or Wigan.

It’s not hate though, is it? I have concerns, and I have no issue with journalists putting the spotlight on our takeover, but I’m prepared to wait more than 4 weeks before I make up my mind.

Some people have a PMA, some don't and it shines through

[TheFamilyCat]

Once the owners show us something to be happy about I will re assess my opinion.

I am still gutted that the premier league has allowed this takeover to happen. The more you read and hear highlights just how poor of a deal for the club it was.

Like I said they might make it work but at the moment it’s looking like we are going to end up like the clubs I mentioned.

You'll have to explain why it is looking likely?

The situation at Burnley is the complete opposite end of the spectrum to Bolton and Wigan.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Some people have a PMA, some don't and it shines through

To be fair GDJ, after all your points about growing the company. You still haven’t highlighted how it is going to happen when the people running the club don’t have the finances to make your suggestions happen?

Like I said once they show us something to be positive about I will re-assess. Right now everyone in the football sphere is telling us how bad this deal is, yet there a Burnley fans saying we are ok and will get better as result of the takeover.

[DomBFC1882]

Still going i see lads

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Yes or perhaps the journalists know the facts and are reporting the realities of our situation.

An owner with no money has managed to take over a premier league club. Which is looking likely will end like Bolton or Wigan in the long run.
Time will tell but I don’t understand the hate journalists are getting from a section of Burnley fans.

They are reporting a worst case scenario after less than a month. I actually think some of our ‘fans’ would love us to do a ‘Wigan, Bolton, Portsmouth’ etc etc so they can say ‘I told you so’. Last time I checked we were still in the Premier League.

[Newcastleclaret93]

You'll have to explain why it is looking likely?

The situation at Burnley is the complete opposite end of the spectrum to Bolton and Wigan.

I think it is more likely we will end up like them clubs than be a premier league club long term. My opinion nothing to support that theory.

[Newcastleclaret93]

They are reporting a worst case scenario after less than a month. I actually think some of our ‘fans’ would love us to do a ‘Wigan, Bolton, Portsmouth’ etc etc so they can say ‘I told you so’. Last time I checked we were still in the Premier League.

I don’t think they are reporting worst case, I think they are sharing there outrage (same as a lot of people in the football sphere) that the premier league have allowed this to happen.

They have no money and they a merely reporting that fact.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

To be fair GDJ, after all your points about growing the company. You still haven’t highlighted how it is going to happen when the people running the club don’t have the finances to make your suggestions happen?

Like I said once they show us something to be positive about I will re-assess. Right now everyone in the football sphere is telling us how bad this deal is, yet there a Burnley fans saying we are ok and will get better as result of the takeover.

You don't know what money they do or don't have though, unless you're the personal accountant for all of these people.
The Glazers didn't need to leverage Utd to buy it, that's just how they chose to do it.

[TheFamilyCat]

I think it is more likely we will end up like them clubs than be a premier league club long term. My opinion nothing to support that theory.

In that case, I will repeat my first response to you "Proper ray of sunshine aren't you" and leave it at that.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

I don’t think they are reporting worst case, I think they are sharing there outrage (same as a lot of people in the football sphere) that the premier league have allowed this to happen.

They have no money and they a merely reporting that fact.

Outrage?? As I’ve said before you should be directing your ‘outrage’ to those who were happy to sell their shares to them.

We’ll see this summer about having no money.

[Newcastleclaret93]

In that case, I will repeat my first response to you "Proper ray of sunshine aren't you" and leave it at that.

Sorry I don’t share the same opinion as you familycat. Merely sharing my thoughts on a football messageboard.

[Newcastleclaret93]

You don't know what money they do or don't have though, unless you're the personal accountant for all of these people.
The Glazers didn't need to leverage Utd to buy it, that's just how they chose to do it.

Just going off what the people seem to be reporting.

Glazers are a wealthy family. Know one really knows anything about ALK apart from the fact that they have only put forward roughly 30m to buy the club.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

You'll have to explain why it is looking likely?

The situation at Burnley is the complete opposite end of the spectrum to Bolton and Wigan.

It's what he wants to happen quite simple, in a dark recess inside him.

The aforementioned clubs were purchased and ran by people using their own personal money, so running the place financially prudently wasn't a big issue.
Along with numerous other clubs who were ran the same.

Our lot have borrowed and it has to be paid back or the lose the business and reputations.

We were already ran very financially prudently before they took over, so it's not like those other clubs who were drowning under the weight of an excessive wage bill for example, but they won't mention that because its an inconvenient truth.

They'll flap and whine on here with no real substance to their arguments.

The Glazers leveraged Utd for the buyout and then set about massively increasing the revenue streams to cover that outlay and increase dividends to themselves.
They've still been able to compete and spend money on players etc.

But we should ignore those facts though because we will be like Wigan, Bolton etc for definite

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Good article here about how the Glazers found the money to buy Utd, despite being billionaires already.

They used very little of their own money...

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answer ... h-debt.asp

[DCWat]

I think it is more likely we will end up like them clubs than be a premier league club long term. My opinion nothing to support that theory.

We’re only going to keep going round in circles until we know more. We’ve not really heard anything new and certainly not seen anything to either improve confidence in the takeover or prove it to be a bad decision.

There are obviously lots of areas that we can improve, which may bring in more revenue to the club. There are also question marks about how we will manage the debt and afford a squad that can maintain premier league status and perhaps become a more attractive proposition to potential fans further afield.

For how far we’ve got on this thread over the last few weeks, it’d be almost worth closing it until anything of significance comes to light.

[Newcastleclaret93]

We’re only going to keep going round in circles until we know more. We’ve not really heard anything new and certainly not seen anything to either improve confidence in the takeover or prove it to be a bad decision.

There are obviously lots of areas that we can improve, which may bring in more revenue to the club. There are also question marks about how we will manage the debt and afford a squad that can maintain premier league status and perhaps become a more attractive proposition to potential fans further afield.

For how far we’ve got on this thread over the last few weeks, it’d be almost worth closing it until anything of significance comes to light.

I agree let’s close the thread, nothing to discuss until more info comes out

[cricketfieldclarets]

Sorry. Probably covered on the magic money thread but where do you start on a 67895 pager. It’s more replies than an Easton or Fox thread.

Anyway. Who owes this 90m debt. And who do they owe it too? Is it the individuals who ‘borrowed’ it. Or is it in the clubs name? Do they owe it to the bank or the previous owners? Is it the equivalent of getting a mortgage to buy a house or...

To me from what I see and hear still sounds like exciting times... But also many other fans who questioned the buyout (Blackburn claret was a big one who got shot down) were entitled to have concerns also.

[Richardsbfc]

You owe me £15 from a Bombay in 2014 that I paid for.

[tim_noone]

You owe me £15 from a Bombay in 2014 that I paid for.

There could be a queue forming....

[Richardsbfc]

I honestly don't think there is much to worry about. When you do a little digging on ALK and the investors behind it, I am 100% confident that its exciting times.

I would much rather investors, invest with other peoples money rather than their own. On the face of it, you look at Sheff Weds who are owned by Thai owners using their own money. Then you look at the Glazers leveraged buy out and again, on the face of it, I personally don't think they have done a bad job.

The scrambling for money, I think, was a huge over-reaction and was always the plan. Buy the shares for a fair price, bring in some big names in the US business arena which will automatically increase share prices in the US and want investors to buy in based on previous reputations.

Its also fair to say that our reputation other than in the UK is non-existent so tap into that market and we will see revenue increase.

I don't and nobody knows the in's and out's of the structure of the deal other than the interested parties. The outgoing chairmen gained my trust, in turn, I am more than happy to trust the incoming chairmen until they break it.

All my opinions based on very little knowledge of business!

[Wellsy1882]

You owe me £15 from a Bombay in 2014 that I paid for.

Unit

[fanzone]

If it's true the money were borrowed off Michael Dell and it's the same Michael Dell I googled he's worth about 27 Billion give it take a fiver. Let's hope he comes on board as an outside Investor

[tim_noone]

If it's true the money were borrowed off Michael Dell and it's the same Michael Dell I googled he's worth about 27 Billion give it take a fiver. Let's hope he comes on board as an outside Investor

Well he was correct about Bottled water was old Del Boy...

[GodIsADeeJay81]

If it's true the money were borrowed off Michael Dell and it's the same Michael Dell I googled he's worth about 27 Billion give it take a fiver. Let's hope he comes on board as an outside Investor

He won't, his loans business has also lent to Saints and Derby.

[clarethomer]

I am less worried about who owes what money to who as long as there is the confidence that the money can be repaid and that the overall business plans support growing the club in a way that doesn't end up disenfranchising the 'core' fans with massive hikes in ticket prices.

The thing with trying to make any change in business is, from my experience, something that takes time. Given the new owners have been in the business for a little over a month now and 2 weeks of that have been in self-isolation there is no surprise we haven't seen anything too visibly different yet. It was never presented as something that was going to happen quickly.

[CFS]

We’ll see this summer about having no money.

Like in January? I fell for the shite the owner came in and said yet he was talking tosh he ain't got no money as don't the supposed big boys who are joining him on the board.

[Rileybobs]

If it's true the money were borrowed off Michael Dell and it's the same Michael Dell I googled he's worth about 27 Billion give it take a fiver. Let's hope he comes on board as an outside Investor

Why would he?

[Rileybobs]

Like in January? I fell for the shite the owner came in and said yet he was talking tosh he ain't got no money as don't the supposed big boys who are joining him on the board.

Did anyone think that the directors were going to bring any substantial personal wealth to the table? Alan Pace’s personal bank balance is irrelevant, he’s the managing partner of an investment firm - that is where the investment, if any, will be coming from.

[Darthlaw]

Like in January? I fell for the shite the owner came in and said yet he was talking tosh he ain't got no money as don't the supposed big boys who are joining him on the board.

En Anglais, si vous plait?

[CFS]

En Anglais, si vous plait?

Ci madam ala no Wongas Burnley clubes. Merci Alan talkey lots of poopey ala no monaies.

[Chester Perry]

I honestly don't think there is much to worry about. When you do a little digging on ALK and the investors behind it, I am 100% confident that its exciting times.

I would much rather investors, invest with other peoples money rather than their own. On the face of it, you look at Sheff Weds who are owned by Thai owners using their own money. Then you look at the Glazers leveraged buy out and again, on the face of it, I personally don't think they have done a bad job.

The scrambling for money, I think, was a huge over-reaction and was always the plan. Buy the shares for a fair price, bring in some big names in the US business arena which will automatically increase share prices in the US and want investors to buy in based on previous reputations.

Its also fair to say that our reputation other than in the UK is non-existent so tap into that market and we will see revenue increase.

I don't and nobody knows the in's and out's of the structure of the deal other than the interested parties. The outgoing chairmen gained my trust, in turn, I am more than happy to trust the incoming chairmen until they break it.

All my opinions based on very little knowledge of business!

let's assess the facts and your understanding

The money we know has be invested in the "shares" and not transforming activities has largely been borrowed and at a "mortgage rate" not seen since the early 90's, there are reports that more of the clubs's own cash holdings have been used to buy "shares" not transforming activities, than the new owners have put in of their own money. Which may be because they do not have much of their own money, the possibility remains that our new owners are less wealthy than our old owners were prior to the takeover.

The flip seems to be part of the plan all along, there is good reason to suspect the scramble was more about the recognition that the fans interpretation of words about the transfer window could not be met

Neither the club nor ALK are listed on any investment market - that is not to say that they could not be in the future, though that has never worked well for any club ever in the long term.

you are right that you have very little knowledge - so you appear to lay your trust on what the nice men say and the fact the club is still operating

None of this is a personal criticism of you, I believe you are far from alone in this, but this is exactly the reason why people should seek to understand what is happening and ask questions where appropriate - it is what started my journey.

[DCWat]

In all fairness Chester, it’s a complex thing to understand for people with little or no understanding of this kind of thing.

We’re seeing speculation and supposition from a variety of experienced and knowledgeable people, and those simply with more than a passing interest in the murky world of football finance.

We should all perhaps try to understand more, but in our particular case, is there sufficient evidence to truly support a view, one way or the other?

If the experts and others can’t yet provide something substantive (one only needs to read posts on this thread, from people who appear to have reasonable knowledge and experience of business takeovers and / or finance deals) can those forming a view based on what they have readily available to them, really be criticised?

Are any of us really going to see whether this is a good or bad thing for our football club, for some considerable time?

[Chester Perry]

In all fairness Chester, it’s a complex thing to understand for people with little or no understanding of this kind of thing.

We’re seeing speculation and supposition from a variety of experienced and knowledgeable people, and those simply with more than a passing interest in the murky world of football finance.

We should all perhaps try to understand more, but in our particular case, is there sufficient evidence to truly support a view, one way or the other?

If the experts and others can’t yet provide something substantive (one only needs to read posts on this thread, from people who appear to have reasonable knowledge and experience of business takeovers and / or finance deals) can those forming a view based on what they have readily available to them, really be criticised?

Are any of us really going to see whether this is a good or bad thing for our football club, for some considerable time?

the picture will become a lot clearer over the next 18 months, that is for sure

[DCWat]

the picture will become a lot clearer over the next 18 months, that is for sure

From where we are now, would be the first positive signs that you’d expect to see and conversely, what early signs might begin to raise concerns, for you?

[Chester Perry]

From where we are now, would be the first positive signs that you’d expect to see and conversely, what early signs might begin to raise concerns, for you?

first positive would be they flip some shares to a moneyed and knowledgeable/experienced sports investor - that would mean no additional debt and potentially some cash returned to the club and possible partnerships commercially

I am also eager to see how they resolve the shirt sponsor situation - there are unsubstantsiated reports that Lovebet is not even trading in the far east anymore

conversely if that doesn't happen by the summer window the shadows of concern would darken

[DCWat]

So the 12/18 month clearer picture may actually be nearer six months?

[Chester Perry]

So the 12/18 month clearer picture may actually be nearer six months?

first signs in 6 months - the 18 month picture will allow us to see greater detail about the workings via official filings together with what we see and experience at the club.

The difficulty is the owners are looking forward and we can only judge in hindsight and even then with limited knowledge

[DCWat]

first signs in 6 months - the 18 month picture will allow us to see greater detail about the workings via official filings together with what we see and experience at the club.

The difficulty is the owners are looking forward and we can only judge in hindsight and even then with limited knowledge

Thanks Chester.

More intriguing times than exciting times for me, at the moment. I’ll happily pop on an exciting times sign off, if and when that seems to be the case.

[Chester Perry]

Thanks Chester.

More intriguing times than exciting times for me, at the moment. I’ll happily pop on an exciting times sign off, if and when that seems to be the case.

Quite so

[Longtimeclaret]

The terms of the deal and the way it is supposedly structured,in terms of default payments by ALK are presumably the only reason Garlick remains on the Board
He is the main beneficiary, and I would hope we part company with him at the earliest available opportunity
The lack of investment in the last 2 years , and the rationale in terms of personal profiteering is obscene.

[Chester Perry]

The terms of the deal and the way it is supposedly structured,in terms of default payments by ALK are presumably the only reason Garlick remains on the Board
He is the main beneficiary, and I would hope we part company with him at the earliest available opportunity
The lack of investment in the last 2 years , and the rationale in terms of personal profiteering is obscene.

The club spent an awful lot of money during Garlick's reign, you may not like to hear that or what it was spent on, but it doesn't make it any less true.

[boatshed bill]

I always wonder why Mike Garlick gets so much stick on here.
He's funded everything that's good about the PL era Burnley Football Club.
So, if he wants a share of any profits who can blame him?

[DCWat]

I always wonder why Mike Garlick gets so much stick on here.
He's funded everything that's good about the PL era Burnley Football Club.
So, if he wants a share of any profits who can blame him?

Are you saying that you wouldn’t build a business up and then give it away at zero profit? Profit from which the new owners would then directly benefit.

[boatshed bill]

Are you saying that you wouldn’t build a business up and then give it away at zero profit? Profit from which the new owners would then directly benefit.

Yes

[Devils_Advocate]

I always wonder why Mike Garlick gets so much stick on here.
He's funded everything that's good about the PL era Burnley Football Club.
So, if he wants a share of any profits who can blame him?

There's so many people tying themselves up in knots on all sides of this debate that when it finally unravels one way or another the arguments are gonna be primetime entertainment

[boatshed bill]

There's so many people tying themselves up in knots on all sides of this debate that when it finally unravels one way or another the arguments are gonna be primetime entertainment

Well, DA, the deed's done now.

[brunlea99]

The terms of the deal and the way it is supposedly structured,in terms of default payments by ALK are presumably the only reason Garlick remains on the Board
He is the main beneficiary, and I would hope we part company with him at the earliest available opportunity
The lack of investment in the last 2 years , and the rationale in terms of personal profiteering is obscene.

It could be worse. We could have "invested" £20M+ in Rhian Brewster.

[Longtimeclaret]

The club spent an awful lot of money during Garlick's reign, you may not like to hear that or what it was spent on, but it doesn't make it any less true.

The investment stopped when the opportunity to realise personal gain was muted.It’s no coincidence that the cash reserves were increased at the expense of investment in the squad
Personal gain , actually enormous personal gain, some would say greed, was promoted ahead of the interests of the Football Club
That is why he needs to go as soon as possible .

[boatshed bill]

The investment stopped when the opportunity to realise personal gain was muted.It’s no coincidence that the cash reserves were increased at the expense of investment in the squad
Personal gain , actually enormous personal gain, some would say greed, was promoted ahead of the interests of the Football Club
That is why he needs to go as soon as possible .

I think your comment is unjust.
MG has been the making of the modern day BFC.
He's been the making of Sean Dyche (in my opinion).
You talk about lack of spending recently, but how could he have known there'd be an offer at the same time as you say he was holding back funds?