Well for a start ALK supposedly used money from the club to fund the takeover, that money was there and could've been spent on transfers... I don't know why you're pretending there wasn't any money in the club pre takeover when it's been claimed ALK used a large portion of the clubs money. £81m was the clubs cash in the bank, up from £42m.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:04 pmdemonstrate your numbers please taking into account everything else I have talked about, there is some not as much as many seem to think. then you have to allow in the things that remain unkown to us:
- targets Dyche wanted but wouldn't come/Garlick deemed we couldn't afford (fee, wages, agent fee or any combination)
- targets Rigg wanted but Dyche didn't
- positions Dyche wanted filling, but Dyche's targets could not be acquired or were refused (entirely possible, many fans worry about the age profile) so - Rigg identifies an alternative (maybe Drinkwater was a lower cost temporary alternative to the failed Phillips bid)
- long term infrastructure plans Garlick was saving for (maybe none but given there was a roadmap unlikely)
- what is a reasonable amount of Championship rainy day money to keep the academy strong and hopefully productive at Cat 1 level
- read the runes as what is happening re the fan led review and it;s consequential impact, Project Big Picture, UEFA club competitions post 2024 and the push to leagues that feed them to have no more than 18 clubs (only 4 do currently). Then There is FIFA's desire for a world cup of 48 teams every two years - that 18 club top league could easily be a FIFA membership rule. there is much more too
ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
take away the accruals from that July 2020 number and you are left with £24.4m like I said we had some money just not as much as many people thinkKRBFC wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:15 pmWell for a start ALK supposedly used money from the club to fund the takeover, that money was there and could've been spent on transfers... I don't know why you're pretending there wasn't any money in the club pre takeover when it's been claimed ALK used a large portion of the clubs money. £81m was the clubs cash in the bank, up from £42m.
ALK used working cashflow to pay for some shares apparently
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
How about "He made a conscious and deliberate decision to sign the contract that ensured all the money was for him and his friends and the minority shareholders would not get any of the cash". Is that better?Chester Perry wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:50 pmthe way you worded it was libel, reread the sentence as it stands alone
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
there is no way to prove that assertion, without calling board members to a courtroom as witnesses which unless you have clear evidence beforehand is a very risky approach to take.
Also if you consider that Garlick had to leave/withdraw and someone else had to be seen in charge by Dyche for Dyche to remain then you cannot then expect him to insist that the offer be extended to all share holders. Even at the lower end of the takeover value reports that is an extra £25m+ for ALK to find, it may have meant that Garlick would have had virtually nothing upfront (and probably less than he had put into his shares), yet left carrying all the risk, including the potentially the debt if the club was returned to him.
When other share sales have occurred was the offer extended to all share holders? and I would included the Kilby takeover in that - and yes I am aware the share prices was dramatically different
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I'm admiring the persistence of some people to bash Garlick for selling, for not splurging cash last summer, for not finding a sugar daddy style owner at short notice, claiming he's put himself before the club, for having the audacity to get a good price for his shares, for not staying and splashing the cash etc etc etc.
The very definition of rock and a hard place from the looks of it.
Good job he doesn't waste his time reading this place because he'd either be trying to sue or laughing at some of you, maybe both.
The very definition of rock and a hard place from the looks of it.
Good job he doesn't waste his time reading this place because he'd either be trying to sue or laughing at some of you, maybe both.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
for all i know he is laughing at meGodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:33 pmI'm admiring the persistence of some people to bash Garlick for selling, for not splurging cash last summer, for not finding a sugar daddy style owner at short notice, claiming he's put himself before the club, for having the audacity to get a good price for his shares, for not staying and splashing the cash etc etc etc.
The very definition of rock and a hard place from the looks of it.
Good job he doesn't waste his time reading this place because he'd either be trying to sue or laughing at some of you, maybe both.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
He’s laughing at everyone including you , you just can’t/won’t see it and never willGodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:33 pmI'm admiring the persistence of some people to bash Garlick for selling, for not splurging cash last summer, for not finding a sugar daddy style owner at short notice, claiming he's put himself before the club, for having the audacity to get a good price for his shares, for not staying and splashing the cash etc etc etc.
The very definition of rock and a hard place from the looks of it.
Good job he doesn't waste his time reading this place because he'd either be trying to sue or laughing at some of you, maybe both.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
You really can’t, your assumptions are also just that - assumptions, just from the opposite end of the spectrum.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:25 pmDoubt it, the thing is I can grasp what's gone on, some of you can't and also won't move on from it.
The only people that know what really went on and why the takeover was structured as it was are the outgoing board members and ALK.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I can accept that, some of you can't so out trot the outright lies, falsehoods and defamatory comments om here and now the hatred of Garlick despite all he's done.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Someone like Eddie Davies, Brooks Mileson, George Reynolds, etc?
Personally, and I know I may be in a minority here, I'd prefer someone who is honest about wanting to make money rather than a "fan" who will run the club as an ego project until they get bored of it.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I don't understand what your point is. Are you arguing that it's libellous because I can't prove that minority shareholders weren't paid, or are you arguing that it's libellous because I can't prove that Garlick signed or agreed the deal? Or some other reason?Chester Perry wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:23 pmthere is no way to prove that assertion, without calling board members to a courtroom as witnesses which unless you have clear evidence beforehand is a very risky approach to take.
Also if you consider that Garlick had to leave/withdraw and someone else had to be seen in charge by Dyche for Dyche to remain then you cannot then expect him to insist that the offer be extended to all share holders. Even at the lower end of the takeover value reports that is an extra £25m+ for ALK to find, it may have meant that Garlick would have had virtually nothing upfront (and probably less than he had put into his shares), yet left carrying all the risk, including the potentially the debt if the club was returned to him.
When other share sales have occurred was the offer extended to all share holders? and I would included the Kilby takeover in that - and yes I am aware the share prices was dramatically different
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Can you post the honesty statement where Garlick said he wanted to make millions out of the club , thanks in advance.aggi wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:13 pmSomeone like Eddie Davies, Brooks Mileson, George Reynolds, etc?
Personally, and I know I may be in a minority here, I'd prefer someone who is honest about wanting to make money rather than a "fan" who will run the club as an ego project until they get bored of it.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Living a life full of envy over money is a very sad way to exist
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
That sums up the majority of labour voters.claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:02 amLiving a life full of envy over money is a very sad way to exist
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
No Politics anymore
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Typical Murdoch rag it’s behind a paywall so can you cutnpaste the article NC93?Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:29 pmInteresting report in the times
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seni ... -jnw92x675
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
It’s a bit misleading.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:29 pmInteresting report in the times
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seni ... -jnw92x675
We (rightly) got rid of Rigg and Hart because they were shite.
The others, who knows?
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Can’t wait for us to start following the Brentford model where the chairman puts in 200 million
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
There is a line in the Times piece that says Companies House showed us having £80.6million int bank prior to the takeover. One can reasonably assume that the chairman was ring fencing that to enable the ALK purchase instead of signing new players.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
As stated near the top of the pageRodleydave wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:48 pmThere is a line in the Times piece that says Companies House showed us having £80.6million int bank prior to the takeover. One can reasonably assume that the chairman was ring fencing that to enable the ALK purchase instead of signing new players.
Chester Perry wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:28 pmtake away the accruals from that July 2020 number and you are left with £24.4m like I said we had some money just not as much as many people think
ALK used working cashflow to pay for some shares apparently
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
That's depending on which agenda you want to push.Rodleydave wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:48 pmThere is a line in the Times piece that says Companies House showed us having £80.6million int bank prior to the takeover. One can reasonably assume that the chairman was ring fencing that to enable the ALK purchase instead of signing new players.
We had TV rebates, no match day revenue and a potential to spend it on new players this summer.
Like I said, it all depends on agenda
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Chester's suggestion that you can just deduct the accruals and get the real cash figure is a bit simplistic. However, I'd be willing to bet that £30-35m of that £80m figure is because our change in year end meant that the accounts had a TV instalment for the upcoming season.Rodleydave wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:48 pmThere is a line in the Times piece that says Companies House showed us having £80.6million int bank prior to the takeover. One can reasonably assume that the chairman was ring fencing that to enable the ALK purchase instead of signing new players.
There's not a chance that the chairman was ring fencing £80m for the ALK purchase. Maybe £40-50m in theory, although I'd still say that was too high.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Just knocking out the accruals and ignoring the other debtors/creditors doesn't really give a true picture. We owe £10m more in tax than last season for instance which is also likely to be a timing issue and drops the available cash by another £10m.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:28 pmtake away the accruals from that July 2020 number and you are left with £24.4m like I said we had some money just not as much as many people think
ALK used working cashflow to pay for some shares apparently
Similarly, although the accruals figure is £56m it is normally around £25m. If you're carrying the same figure year on year then you shouldn't deduct it all to get your working capital figure.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Just seems a funny time as "investors" to buy a small premiership club to me. 10 months into a modern day pandemic you choose to purchase, the glue SD only has just over a year on his contract, a ageing squad that needs strengthening left, right and centre, and at the time (Jan 2021) no firm date when a main revenue stream (supporters) where going to be allowed back in grounds. At that time also (Jan 2021) there was various variants appearing almost daily threatening to derail the vaccine programme. Just a very strange time to buy when it's obvious your not in the billionaire mould.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Well yes in a way but then we don’t actually no all the details of the transaction do we.s6t9a2f3f wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:50 pmJust seems a funny time as "investors" to buy a small premiership club to me. 10 months into a modern day pandemic you choose to purchase, the glue SD only has just over a year on his contract, a ageing squad that needs strengthening left, right and centre, and at the time (Jan 2021) no firm date when a main revenue stream (supporters) where going to be allowed back in grounds. At that time also (Jan 2021) there was various variants appearing almost daily threatening to derail the vaccine programme. Just a very strange time to buy when it's obvious your not in the billionaire mould.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
No idea how true it is but heard a rumour from a decent enough source that a payment has been missed for the club very recently - interesting with the 3 strikes and you’re out/back to Garlick.
Rumour has is that this is the 2nd payment missed so could be a bit of a grey patch coming up.
Rumour has is that this is the 2nd payment missed so could be a bit of a grey patch coming up.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Exciting times ?!?!?!?!?!?!?bfccrazy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:34 pmNo idea how true it is but heard a rumour from a decent enough source that a payment has been missed for the club very recently - interesting with the 3 strikes and you’re out/back to Garlick.
Rumour has is that this is the 2nd payment missed so could be a bit of a grey patch coming up.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Decent enough source tbh but no idea how much sugar has been added to the rumour to sweeten it up.
This was said before the article was posted earlier which I was interested in reading but it’s behind a paywall and I’m not that into the rag to sign up to read it
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
OK then, scary times ?bfccrazy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:41 pmDecent enough source tbh but no idea how much sugar has been added to the rumour to sweeten it up.
This was said before the article was posted earlier which I was interested in reading but it’s behind a paywall and I’m not that into the rag to sign up to read it
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Perfect time to buy, price would be lower.s6t9a2f3f wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:50 pmJust seems a funny time as "investors" to buy a small premiership club to me. 10 months into a modern day pandemic you choose to purchase, the glue SD only has just over a year on his contract, a ageing squad that needs strengthening left, right and centre, and at the time (Jan 2021) no firm date when a main revenue stream (supporters) where going to be allowed back in grounds. At that time also (Jan 2021) there was various variants appearing almost daily threatening to derail the vaccine programme. Just a very strange time to buy when it's obvious your not in the billionaire mould.
As you delight in pointing out, regularly, an aging Squad - if it was already rebuilt it's worth more.
Manager in final year - again, if he had a new long term contract already signed, that inflates price of club
Revenue streams effected - if they were normal, price inflates.
Same with all the work being done at TM now, it if was already done then price is inflated.
It's really not that difficult to understand.
If there's a recession it's the best time to get a house at a better price than if prices were rising.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
If I had a penny for every "decent source" that was made up ********, I could wipe out the debt of Barcelona
One thing you can absolutely guarantee is that if you want to hear rumours that you want to believe, then you will find them really, really, really easily
10 days left before we can full on lads remember!
One thing you can absolutely guarantee is that if you want to hear rumours that you want to believe, then you will find them really, really, really easily
10 days left before we can full on lads remember!
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I usually get decent sources before I’ll post anything tbh - heard a lot of other stuff I’ve just thought “no chance” toLancasterclaret wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:49 pmIf I had a penny for every "decent source" that was made up ********, I could wipe out the debt of Barcelona
One thing you can absolutely guarantee is that if you want to hear rumours that you want to believe, then you will find them really, really, really easily
10 days left before we can full on lads remember!
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Following his compatriots advice to be greedy when others are fearful.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:48 pmPerfect time to buy, price would be lower.
As you delight in pointing out, regularly, an aging Squad - if it was already rebuilt it's worth more.
Manager in final year - again, if he had a new long term contract already signed, that inflates price of club
Revenue streams effected - if they were normal, price inflates.
Same with all the work being done at TM now, it if was already done then price is inflated.
It's really not that difficult to understand.
If there's a recession it's the best time to get a house at a better price than if prices were rising.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Cannot believe that such highly sensitive commercial/financial information would be leaked, or that professional financiers would allow that to happen, but if it were true I’d hope it’s an agreed deferral to allow team investment this summer. Given the structure of the transaction - the debt and use of club funds - that MG agreed to, I’d say it’s the least he could do.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:48 pmPerfect time to buy, price would be lower.
As you delight in pointing out, regularly, an aging Squad - if it was already rebuilt it's worth more.
Manager in final year - again, if he had a new long term contract already signed, that inflates price of club
Revenue streams effected - if they were normal, price inflates.
Same with all the work being done at TM now, it if was already done then price is inflated.
It's really not that difficult to understand.
If there's a recession it's the best time to get a house at a better price than if prices were rising.
Hmmmmm if they buy players as fast as houses no need for a property portfolio here.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
First of all, business leaks happen all the time - and I had heard this same story (from a Liverpool supporter) last weekNewClaret wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:25 amCannot believe that such highly sensitive commercial/financial information would be leaked, or that professional financiers would allow that to happen, but if it were true I’d hope it’s an agreed deferral to allow team investment this summer. Given the structure of the transaction - the debt and use of club funds - that MG agreed to, I’d say it’s the least he could do.
As for implying it's the least that Garlick could do, let's remember he did not go to ALK with this structure of a deal, they came to him. I also very much doubt ALK would have gone into every minute detail of how they intended to finance this buyout
If the story is true and Garlick has agreed to a deferral then it is because he wants the club to survive
Maybe also he is accepting a deferral because he doesn't want the club back, given the alleged financial state it now finds itself in
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
‘Decent source’. Sounds convincing.bfccrazy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:34 pmNo idea how true it is but heard a rumour from a decent enough source that a payment has been missed for the club very recently - interesting with the 3 strikes and you’re out/back to Garlick.
Rumour has is that this is the 2nd payment missed so could be a bit of a grey patch coming up.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I missed it at the time but it looks like Derby's administration came about after MSD requested that the club be placed into administration. The process may cast some more light on the terms of loans with MSD.
NNN Podcast
Just listened to their interview with Barry Kilby, really enjoyed hearing from the great man...and really taken aback by his comments on no longer having his shares (via a gentlemans agreement) and his thoughts/suprise on how the takeover was funded...very good listen.
Re: NNN Podcast
More people would know what you were on about, or even listen to it if you provided a link...
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Re: NNN Podcast
Really good hour interview. Enjoyed it. Thanks Ewanrob for heads up
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Re: NNN Podcast
A good listen. You'd think given all that he did for the club, that he would have been awarded some sort of lifetime presidency role, or club ambassador role, rather than being turfed out to sit amongst the fans.
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Re: NNN Podcast
In the text he was offered an ambassador role by the Club but refused it, was his decision to go with the fans as well.
I didn’t listen to the podcast just read the text on the Twitter post for it.
I didn’t listen to the podcast just read the text on the Twitter post for it.
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Re: NNN Podcast
All his own decision Dan. He considered the role offered but turned it down. I spoke to him yesterday and he said he likes it in the Longside hospitality area.dandeclaret wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:26 pmYou'd think given all that he did for the club, that he would have been awarded some sort of lifetime presidency role, or club ambassador role, rather than being turfed out to sit amongst the fans.