Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

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ClaretTony
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Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:22 am

Leyton Orient accepted Tottenham's offer of paying for COVID tests which saw some of their players tested positive. Other clubs declined offers from Premier League clubs, Hull I believe were one, and just played regardless of the consequences.

Leyton Orient's game was called off and they lost the television money they would have had. They have now been thrown out of the competition with Spurs given a bye because they failed to fulfil their fixture.

I don't know what you think but my view is, at the very best, this is insensitive from the Football League.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by mdd2 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:25 am

Absolute disgrace-punished for doing the right thing. Decent clubs should all now pull out from the competition and next years competition until this is resolved in Leyton Orient's favour-but that won't happen.
This is one occasion where the Government via Matt Hancock should take a very firm stand.
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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:30 am

I did say "At best insensitive," but I thought this was a disgrace too.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Claretincraven » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:34 am

Absolutely disgraceful decision. EFL favouring the big Club, bet it wouldn't have happened the other way round.
Orient were prevented from playing the fixture by their local council. What the hell else could they have done?
Should hang their heads in shame.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by martin_p » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:34 am

mdd2 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:25 am
Absolute disgrace-punished for doing the right thing. Decent clubs should all now pull out from the competition and next years competition until this is resolved in Leyton Orient's favour-but that won't happen.
This is one occasion where the Government via Matt Hancock should take a very firm stand.
The one year we’re having a ‘cup run’!!!!!!!

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Conroysleftfoot » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:34 am

Totally agree, they have got penalised for doing the correct thing.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by wilks_bfc » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:35 am

I thought the game was postponed because Spurs were playing in Europe last night

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Burnley Ace » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:35 am

So Leyton Orient haven’t taken appropriate steps to ensure the safety of their employees and those of other clubs. Thankfully Spurs had the foresight to ensure they were tested and their employees kept safe. 17 positive steps is a **** take and they were punished in accordance with the agreed rules.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by martin_p » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:36 am

But joking aside this is an appalling decision. The Sports Minister or someone from government should be pointing out forcefully to the EFL that Orient have done exactly what would be expected of them in the current situation. It certainly encourages clubs to play without testing which will inevitably lead to the spread of the virus across lower league football.
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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by dsr » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:36 am

Presumably the FL believes that Hull and others did the right thing and Leyton Orient were in the wrong.

I wonder what happens if (as is not unlikely) the PL refuses to play against teams that haven't been tested?

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by 4:20 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:38 am

EiwReMhXkAARAoH.jpeg
EiwReMhXkAARAoH.jpeg (109.31 KiB) Viewed 1866 times
Not sure how legit this is but it was posted on Twitter,

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by NottsClaret » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:39 am

dsr wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:36 am
Presumably the FL believes that Hull and others did the right thing and Leyton Orient were in the wrong.

I wonder what happens if (as is not unlikely) the PL refuses to play against teams that haven't been tested?
Then they'd get kicked out. There'll be thousands of games played over the weekend where nobody has been tested.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by martin_p » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:41 am

NottsClaret wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:39 am
Then they'd get kicked out. There'll be thousands of games played over the weekend where nobody has been tested.
Which will be a contributing factor to the massive rise in infections.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by tim_noone » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:43 am

My Grandad always tells me about 'The' Orient Game..... as I suck on me werthers. :roll:

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by NottsClaret » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:44 am

martin_p wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:41 am
Which will be a contributing factor to the massive rise in infections.
Could well be right martin. But we can't stop playing sport indefinitely.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:45 am

this was on the MMT thread yesterday - quite a heartening tale
Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:58 am
On Tuesday despite pleas Leyton Orient had their League cup tie with Spurs postponed (and probably cancelled with a default loss) after a surge of Covid infections in the team, the tie had been selected by Sky and Orient would have received a 6 figure sum for the game. Since then Spurs fans have overwhelmed Orients online store with orders to help make up for the loss - it is another football fan good news story

https://twitter.com/leytonorientfc/stat ... 2872516613
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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by martin_p » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:47 am

NottsClaret wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:44 am
Could well be right martin. But we can't stop playing sport indefinitely.
Who suggested we stop playing sport indefinitely?
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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:48 am

and for those of you who think Orient have been badly treated try this - again from the MMT thread yesterday
Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:24 am
this is quite significant when you apply it to the European equivalent - The Asian Champions League has expelled the defending Champions for fielding a team of just 9 players as Covid ravaged their team - from Sports Business - Imagine Andreas Angelli if it were Juventus

AFC Champions League holders expelled after Covid-19 outbreak
Tom King, Asia Office - September 24, 2020

Reigning champions Al Hilal have been removed from the AFC Champions League after naming a line-up with only nine outfield players due to a Covid-19 outbreak.

The Saudi Arabian side failed to name the required 13 players for their AFC Champions League (West) Group B match against Shabab Al Ahli Dubai, of the United Arab Emirates.

Under Article 4.3 of the special rules applicable to AFC Competitions during the Covid-19 pandemic, the team was deemed to have withdrawn from the competition, the AFC said in a press release.

A Covid-19 outbreak affecting 15 Al Hilal players meant the team had only eight virus-free outfield players for Wednesday’s match against Shabab Al Ahli Dubai. Al Hilal named two goalkeepers on the bench but could not fulfil the minimum squad requirement of 13 players.

The ruling means all matches played by Al Hilal are considered null and void and therefore Pakhtakor of Uzbekistan and Shabab Al Ahli Dubai have progressed to the Round of 16 from Group B.

Al Hilal and the Saudi Arabian federation requested a postponement of the match against Shabab Al Ahli Dubai, but the AFC rejected it, deciding that it would have negatively impacted the match schedule of the AFC Champions League (West).

Earlier this month, Abu Dhabi-based club Al Wahda withdrew from the competition due to positive Covid-19 tests, which prevented the squad travelling to Qatar.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Dyched » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:50 am

How’s it disgraceful?

They’ve been thrown out as they can’t play the fixture. Let’s stop the football season for Leyton Orient. No.

Same should apply every time this happens. Can’t play the fixture? You forfeit the game. You can’t keep pushing games back, the season won’t end until 2035

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by martin_p » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:53 am

Dyched wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:50 am
How’s it disgraceful?

They’ve been thrown out as they can’t play the fixture. Let’s stop the football season for Leyton Orient. No.

Same should apply every time this happens. Can’t play the fixture? You forfeit the game. You can’t keep pushing games back, the season won’t end until 2035
Can we have our three points from Man United now then?
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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:55 am

Dyched wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:50 am
How’s it disgraceful?

They’ve been thrown out as they can’t play the fixture. Let’s stop the football season for Leyton Orient. No.

Same should apply every time this happens. Can’t play the fixture? You forfeit the game. You can’t keep pushing games back, the season won’t end until 2035
But the point is that if they'd said no thanks to Spurs on the testing, they would have played the game with a lot of players who were positive.
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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Dyched » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:57 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:55 am
But the point is that if they'd said no thanks to Spurs on the testing, they would have played the game with a lot of players who were positive.
Yes I know that. But they’ve been thrown out as they can’t play the fixture.

I know from a health pov they did the correct thing.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Dyched » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:58 am

martin_p wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:53 am
Can we have our three points from Man United now then?
That wasn’t covid though was it. That was already scheduled into the fixtures.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by DCWat » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:58 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:55 am
But the point is that if they'd said no thanks to Spurs on the testing, they would have played the game with a lot of players who were positive.
Exactly. I think it sends out completely the wrong message, at a time when we are expecting everyone to play by the rules and keep others safe.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by jrgbfc » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:58 am

So when do people suggest the game should be replayed then, given the already overcrowded fixture list?

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:00 pm

This really is a ridiculous decision given the circumstances. As if lower league clubs aren't struggling enough. It just shows how out of touch with reality the FA, Football League and EPL are.

As I understand it, the next round of the cup isn't being played until December. Surely the game could have been rearranged long before then?

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:02 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:58 am
So when do people suggest the game should be replayed then, given the already overcrowded fixture list?
Well given that both teams would probably play their reserves, it could be played almost anytime.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by aggi » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:03 pm

It's not much of an incentive for clubs to test their players when it isn't compulsory is it?

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Dyched » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:04 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:58 am
So when do people suggest the game should be replayed then, given the already overcrowded fixture list?
Exactly.

And all this that they’ve done the right thing? Really.

The rules are work from home if you can. Go to work if it is safe to do so. Remain socially distanced.

Leyton Orient are working without social distancing, are lucky they played Spurs and not a lower level team that wouldn’t have tested them. And quite simply their making their players work in an unsafe environment. But it’s okay, it’s football, it’s allowed.
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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by jrgbfc » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:05 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:02 pm
Well given that both teams would probably play their reserves, it could be played almost anytime.
The next round is next week, and I'm guessing the Orient squad will all be self isolating for 2 weeks. If we tried to replay every game that gets called off for covid then this season would never end.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Spijed » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:11 pm

Dyched wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:04 pm
Exactly.

And all this that they’ve done the right thing? Really.

The rules are work from home if you can. Go to work if it is safe to do so. Remain socially distanced.

Leyton Orient are working without social distancing, are lucky they played Spurs and not a lower level team that wouldn’t have tested them. And quite simply their making their players work in an unsafe environment. But it’s okay, it’s football, it’s allowed.
But what Leyton Orient have done simply means that clubs will simply keep quiet about infected players, knowing that winning a match is more important than keeping people safe.

Do you want that?

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by JTClaret » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:15 pm

To me it's encouraging teams not to get tested and take the risk, especially lower league or cup games.
However, Dyched's comment above that Orient aren't doing their part to keep players safe sounds a fair one, but they did accept the testing.

Is another football lockdown coming?

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Dyched » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:16 pm

Spijed wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:11 pm
But what Leyton Orient have done simply means that clubs will simply keep quiet about infected players, knowing that winning a match is more important than keeping people safe.

Do you want that?
I want football football clubs to pay for testing if that’s what they have to do.

I presume all PL clubs are, right? Why should Burnley test their players to be able to play but not lower level teams? I know finances are a lot different, but covid doesn’t know that does it?

Many business are struggling, going under, people out of work. Why then are football clubs allowed to operate in an unsafe manner? It’s far more unsafe than the checkout girl not wearing a mask, or the butcher, or the waiter.

If they have no means of testing, they simply shouldn’t play.
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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:17 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:05 pm
The next round is next week, and I'm guessing the Orient squad will all be self isolating for 2 weeks. If we tried to replay every game that gets called off for covid then this season would never end.
I'm well aware that the next round is next week. I was talking about the round after when the Orient / Spurs game would have to be played by. Games have been postponed before for the big clubs, so why not the little ones? It stinks.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Spijed » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:21 pm

Dyched wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:16 pm
I want football football clubs to pay for testing if that’s what they have to do.

I presume all PL clubs are, right? Why should Burnley test their players to be able to play but not lower level teams? I know finances are a lot different, but covid doesn’t know that does it?

Many business are struggling, going under, people out of work. Why then are football clubs allowed to operate in an unsafe manner? It’s far more unsafe than the checkout girl not wearing a mask, or the butcher, or the waiter.

If they have no means of testing, they simply shouldn’t play.
How are clubs like Leyton Orient expected to pay for testing when they have no money coming in?

With other businesses such as restaurants, they at least get some income, but where is that money coming from for lower league clubs?

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:22 pm

Dyched wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:16 pm
I want football football clubs to pay for testing if that’s what they have to do.

I presume all PL clubs are, right? Why should Burnley test their players to be able to play but not lower level teams? I know finances are a lot different, but covid doesn’t know that does it?

Many business are struggling, going under, people out of work. Why then are football clubs allowed to operate in an unsafe manner? It’s far more unsafe than the checkout girl not wearing a mask, or the butcher, or the waiter.

If they have no means of testing, they simply shouldn’t play.
They were tested and Spurs kindly paid for the tests. That's how they found out how they had infections. That doesn't mean the game couldn't have been rearranged with the next round not until December.

Ells bells, with your way of thinking every little club in the country will go out of business. What then?

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by ClaretMov » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:25 pm

Dyched wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:50 am
How’s it disgraceful?

They’ve been thrown out as they can’t play the fixture. Let’s stop the football season for Leyton Orient. No.

Same should apply every time this happens. Can’t play the fixture? You forfeit the game. You can’t keep pushing games back, the season won’t end until 2035
If it had been the other way around it wouldn't of happened

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Dyched » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:32 pm

Spijed wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:21 pm
How are clubs like Leyton Orient expected to pay for testing when they have no money coming in?

With other businesses such as restaurants, they at least get some income, but where is that money coming from for lower league clubs?
Are there any financial incentives for playing their games behind closed doors?

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Dyched » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:38 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:22 pm
They were tested and Spurs kindly paid for the tests. That's how they found out how they had infections. That doesn't mean the game couldn't have been rearranged with the next round not until December.

Ells bells, with your way of thinking every little club in the country will go out of business. What then?
I don’t want these clubs to go under and 10,000s of people to lose their jobs, of course not. But Leyton Orient have shown it’s clearly not safe to do so, without testing.

Football is played by mostly young people, who have young families, travel around the country playing against others in the same situation. That has far more impact on transferring this virus than it does uni students going out of the ****, helping keep pubs/bars in business.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Zlatan » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:38 pm

As much as it pains me to say it, I agree that Orient have what they deserve. I’m not saying that taking distancing measures and other actions (temp checks etc) throughout the club will stop infections with Covid, but I am saying they must have been very lax in terms of being Covid safe. How else can so many of them be infected? I’m sure that if the staff knew testing was taking place they would have been more careful.

I do think though that financial support from the government to enable testing across all levels of pro football should be provided so we can help stop the issues presenting in the first place.

It’s a shame, but a reality right now

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:40 pm

Dyched wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:32 pm
Are there any financial incentives for playing their games behind closed doors?
Yes, more prize money as they progress throught the rounds. I'm not saying they would have beaten Spurs but at least give them a chance to try.

Do you think we should tell City they can have the next round without playing? I think not.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:43 pm

aggi wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:03 pm
It's not much of an incentive for clubs to test their players when it isn't compulsory is it?
I think it should have been a massive, £150,000 tv money incentive for Leyton to keep their players safe from covid-19 infection. The rules re a team not being able to field a team we agreed before the competition began. If Leyton didn't think they couldn't keep their players covid free, maybe they shouldn't have entered.

Yes, typical, weird rules. You must be covid-negative, but not compulsory to be tested before the games. I guess that was the EFL's compromise, when clubs said they couldn't afford the tests.

I'd have thought it a disgrace if the rules hadn't been complied with and Leyton had been allowed to play the game when everyone was better.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by NottsClaret » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:44 pm

Dyched wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:38 pm
Football is played by mostly young people, who have young families, travel around the country playing against others in the same situation. That has far more impact on transferring this virus than it does uni students going out of the ****, helping keep pubs/bars in business.
Playing sport outdoors spreads the virus more than people getting drunk in bars?
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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:48 pm

Spijed wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:21 pm
How are clubs like Leyton Orient expected to pay for testing when they have no money coming in?

With other businesses such as restaurants, they at least get some income, but where is that money coming from for lower league clubs?
How much does a test cost? How much do they pay their players in wages? I'm sure there's something that could have been sorted there. And, given that there would have been £150k tv money for this game (not for all games), that might have squared Orient's circle. ;) (see what I did there).

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Dyched » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:49 pm

NottsClaret wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:44 pm
Playing sport outdoors spreads the virus more than people getting drunk in bars?
Football isn’t only on the pitch. Coaches to games, changing rooms at grounds, training ground, canteen/restaurant, treatment rooms etc etc.

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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:05 pm

Dyched wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:16 pm
I want football football clubs to pay for testing if that’s what they have to do.

I presume all PL clubs are, right? Why should Burnley test their players to be able to play but not lower level teams? I know finances are a lot different, but covid doesn’t know that does it?

Many business are struggling, going under, people out of work. Why then are football clubs allowed to operate in an unsafe manner? It’s far more unsafe than the checkout girl not wearing a mask, or the butcher, or the waiter.

If they have no means of testing, they simply shouldn’t play.
You talk about other businesses struggling and I understand that, but those businesses aren't operating under the rules of another organisation such as the FA, Football League or EPL. What's the point of following that umbrella organisation's rules, if that umbrella doesn't protect you when it rains?

Ashingtonclaret46
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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:10 pm

They should scrap all sport until they sort the whole pantomime out.
Sport is for enjoyment and lots on here have said that they do not enjoy watching because there are no fans, therefore, do the sensible thing and stop it all being played, televised etc., etc and the problem is solved.

FactualFrank
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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:13 pm

So basically the message they are giving out: Don't test your players. If you do, you could be punished for doing such a thing.

Gordaleman
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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:18 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:10 pm
They should scrap all sport until they sort the whole pantomime out.
Sport is for enjoyment and lots on here have said that they do not enjoy watching because there are no fans, therefore, do the sensible thing and stop it all being played, televised etc., etc and the problem is solved.
And while we wait for the Covid issue to be resolved, every sporting club in the country goes out of business throwing hundred of thousands of people out of work.

Nice plan.
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Re: Leyton Orient - and the action taken against them

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:19 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:05 pm
You talk about other businesses struggling and I understand that, but those businesses aren't operating under the rules of another organisation such as the FA, Football League or EPL. What's the point of following that umbrella organisation's rules, if that umbrella doesn't protect you when it rains?
The decision for Orient to forfeit the game was part of the competition rules. It would have been a disgrace if the agreed rules weren't enforced. The protection provided by FA/EFL is to enforce the rules - and help ensure that professional football can continue to be played during these covid times.

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