Shopping centres v football grounds

[Alanstevensonsgloves]

Just in Bluewater shopping centre and it is very, very busy. Everyone wearing masks and following one way flows. So i am wondering why this is allowed, but fans in the outdoors at football grounds is not???

[Bosscat]

We were discussing this last night in the pub.

A bit like they have brought forward later KO times from 8.15pm to allow people to watch the game in the Pub seems very illogical to me

[Gordaleman]

We were discussing this last night in the pub.

A bit like they have brought forward later KO times from 8.15pm to allow people to watch the game in the Pub seems very illogical to me

So is going to the pub Boss when you're quite likely to catch Covid.

[Zlatan]

It is illogical isn’t it. Spock would be tearing his ears off at this

[Quickenthetempo]

So is going to the pub Boss when you're quite likely to catch Covid.

Quite likely to catch it?

Around 75% chance?

Get a grip man.

[tiger76]

This is what I find baffling, according to all the scientific data, the chances of catching and spreading covid in an outdoor environment is considerably lower than in an indoor environment, especially if the said indoor venue has poor ventilation.

And yet the powers that be are perfectly happy for the public to mingle in pubs and shopping centres, but they won't allow crowds to congregate outdoors, yet more contradictory rules to follow.

As it happens I've neither been to a pub or a shopping centre since the spring, I see no point going to the pub if there's no entertainment available, and I do my shopping online, if I need any essentials I'll pick them up from my local store, and put money into my local high street.

[Gordaleman]

This is what I find baffling, according to all the scientific data, the chances of catching and spreading covid in an outdoor environment is considerably lower than in an indoor environment, especially if the said indoor venue has poor ventilation.

And yet the powers that be are perfectly happy for the public to mingle in pubs and shopping centres, but they won't allow crowds to congregate outdoors, yet more contradictory rules to follow.

As it happens I've neither been to a pub or a shopping centre since the spring, I see no point going to the pub if there's no entertainment available, and I do my shopping online, if I need any essentials I'll pick them up from my local store, and put money into my local high street.

It's all about the economy. If you're spending money, it's OK to spread Covid. If you're not, it's not.

[taio]

It's because there are other considerations than just the risk of transmission. People will see this as a contradiction but it's about an impossible balancing act.

[Alanstevensonsgloves]

It's because there are other considerations than just the risk of transmission. People will see this as a contradiction but it's about an impossible balancing act.

What considerations would there be that favour shopping centres over football grounds?

[taio]

What considerations would there be thar favour shopoing centres over football grounds?

The economy, society and wellbeing.

[Gordaleman]

What considerations would there be that favour shopping centres over football grounds?

People spend money in pubs and shopping centre, they don't when they are sat down at a football match.

Richie Sunak thinks it's OK to spread Covid if you're spending money, but not if you're not.

[tiger76]

It's all about the economy. If you're spending money, it's OK to spread Covid. If you're not, it's not.

Obviously the economy needs a leg up, but the best way to ensure that would be to try and keep as many workers in employment as possible, if people have understandable fears over their jobs, then they'll be cautious in their spending, this is why the scheme announced by the chancellor doesn't really help employees or employers to plan their finances going forward, if they knew that they could be confident that come the spring their specific sectors would see an upturn, then bosses might be prepared to contribute to ensuring they keep their staff, but it's by no means certain that we will experience a v-shaped recovery even by next spring, and that's even without the prospect of a no-deal brexit on the horizon, and the added uncertainty that will bring to the table.

Sunak did make an important point the other day when he stated our economy is experiencing a material change, this has been true for a few years now, but the impact of CV, and the fact people were working from home has probably accelerated this change, and people have also been buying online a lot more, and many will continue to do this even when the pandemic is over, the reality is that traditional shopping centres and high streets won't be viable in the long-term, that's just the nature of the way our shopping habits are changing, the challenge for the retailers is ensuring this is a smooth transition if possible, and it happens gradually, that way the economic impact won't be felt quite so severely.

[Gordaleman]

Obviously the economy needs a leg up, but the best way to ensure that would be to try and keep as many workers in employment as possible, if people have understandable fears over their jobs, then they'll be cautious in their spending, this is why the scheme announced by the chancellor doesn't really help employees or employers to plan their finances going forward, if they knew that they could be confident that come the spring their specific sectors would see an upturn, then bosses might be prepared to contribute to ensuring they keep their staff, but it's by no means certain that we will experience a v-shaped recovery even by next spring, and that's even without the prospect of a no-deal brexit on the horizon, and the added uncertainty that will bring to the table.

Sunak did make an important point the other day when he stated our economy is experiencing a material change, this has been true for a few years now, but the impact of CV, and the fact people were working from home has probably accelerated this change, and people have also been buying online a lot more, and many will continue to do this even when the pandemic is over, the reality is that traditional shopping centres and high streets won't be viable in the long-term, that's just the nature of the way our shopping habits are changing, the challenge for the retailers is ensuring this is a smooth transition if possible, and it happens gradually, that way the economic impact won't be felt quite so severely.

Not quite the point I was making but I agree with much of what you say.

[Paul Waine]

What considerations would there be that favour shopping centres over football grounds?

Let me make some guesses:

football: queue to get in, join concourse before heading to seat, is the concourse quiet, busy or packed? sit in seat for 45+ mins, then there's half-time, maybe visit concourse again and the loos, then another 45+ in seat, during both first half and second half there may be someone wants to get past you to get to their seat further along the row you are in - or maybe it's one person per row, then when the game is over, we all make a rush for the exit. So, some outdoors and, in most grounds, some indoors and potentially very crowded indoors.

Shopping centres: we can all arrive in our own time, we can enter the covered areas, which I understand can be quite spacious, we can enter shops, we can walk around, we can cross paths with other people, at no time are we sitting down in the same place for 45+ minutes.

Just my guesses. Other people might follow different patterns around shopping centres - they will certainly visit different stores to me. Football fans, very little variation from my general description.

I've no idea on the epidemiology impact of one versus the other - thing is I've not got a high degree of confidence that the epidemiologists have much knowledge of these areas either.

[TheFamilyCat]

Away win

[Paul Waine]

Obviously the economy needs a leg up, but the best way to ensure that would be to try and keep as many workers in employment as possible, if people have understandable fears over their jobs, then they'll be cautious in their spending, this is why the scheme announced by the chancellor doesn't really help employees or employers to plan their finances going forward, if they knew that they could be confident that come the spring their specific sectors would see an upturn, then bosses might be prepared to contribute to ensuring they keep their staff, but it's by no means certain that we will experience a v-shaped recovery even by next spring, and that's even without the prospect of a no-deal brexit on the horizon, and the added uncertainty that will bring to the table.

Sunak did make an important point the other day when he stated our economy is experiencing a material change, this has been true for a few years now, but the impact of CV, and the fact people were working from home has probably accelerated this change, and people have also been buying online a lot more, and many will continue to do this even when the pandemic is over, the reality is that traditional shopping centres and high streets won't be viable in the long-term, that's just the nature of the way our shopping habits are changing, the challenge for the retailers is ensuring this is a smooth transition if possible, and it happens gradually, that way the economic impact won't be felt quite so severely.

Hi tiger76, I'm not convinced that it is best to keep people in jobs that aren't needed now and won't be needed in the future. This was the mistake that the country made through the 60s and 70s (and maybe earlier decades). It was what made Thatcher's years thru the 80s so difficult for so many. Covid-19 has given the country a big shock, it has forced the acceleration of some changes that were already under way with the growth of the internet, on-line shopping and so much more. Environmental concerns/climate change is similarly creating change. It will be better for all of us if we face these shocks quickly rather than try to push back against them. Yes, it's a shock for employees to lose their jobs, but it's no less of a shock if this is delayed over 1,2 or more years. It's much better for the individual (and their family) that they think about these things and start planning how they will tackle their future. Of course, it's also better for society and the economy.

Wherever you are in the country I'd be looking for new opportunities including training for the future whether younger generation or older - even if you are already heading into your 60s, if you'd like. if you are in and around Burnley, I'd be looking to create opportunities in the Northern Powerhouse, including "getting noisy" with MPs if you feel this needs to be pushed along.

Change never comes with a smooth transition. It's better to acknowledge the pain and rip the bandage away quickly, rather than limp along, pulling a little bit more off each day. The recovery will be so much quicker and stronger if we seize the opportunity.

[kentonclaret]

1,000 racegoers were pencilled in to attend Newmarket races today but that trial was halted also. 1,000 racegoers on a huge racecourse such as Newmarket would be far less crowded together than in a shopping centre and in the open air.