The Bud Fight, sorry Presidential Debate

[Spijed]

Serial losers have learnt only to get the excuses in early

Do you think Trump is going to win, and if so by how much?

[KateR]

Do you think Trump is going to win, and if so by how much?

I honestly don't know but I think it will be much closer than a lot on here seem to think, before C-19 I thought he would definitely do another 4 years but now I don't, so am in the wait and see mode. As I have said for a long time, he is his own worst enemy, but then again reading this board maybe I got that wrong as well

When I say closer I am not talking about the popular vote though but the ones that matter.

[Claretforever]

Two appalling candidates really. There should be an upper age limit for becoming President, or Prime Minster. There’s a real risk on of Trump or Biden could die in office bully the look of them.

Biden came across better than I thought he would the other week, and Trump did himself no favours by constantly interrupting. I thought the media chase regarding the white supremacist section was ridiculous considering his previous statements on it. It was a non-story really.

The Pence/Harris debate was much more civilised, and I kind of felt sorry for Pence as he was only ever going to be accused of “Mansplaining” with there being two women up there, with one, and the media, determined to make him look bad. He seemed calm and collected whilst Harris’ smile and “I’m talking” can’t have come across well?

Harris got away with too much perhaps, especially the lie about Abraham Lincoln and pulling the race card when she was cornered. It seemed rehearsed as you’d expect.

I don’t believe these debates make anybody change their mind.

[PeterWilton]

Serial losers have learnt only to get the excuses in early

Is that why Trump is already saying, without evidence, that the election is rigged against him?

[KateR]

I can agree with much of what you say, not all of it but that's just perception/opinion and not worth discussing. However for some people, not sure how many and probably not a material amount to sway the outcome, I think there is one one question that could possibly change minds.

The Harris/Pence is, I think an interesting one, not that any VP type debate matters all that much normally but in this case because both presidential candidates are of an age where people won't be that surprised if either were to pass away in office before 2025.

Both VP candidates therefore have a realistic chance of stepping into the big job.

Succession planning was asked to both of them and they both avoided answering that question, I suspect/guess for entirely different reasons but it is something that has been part of a few discussions since with people I meet both F2F and virtually, so it is a hanging question with no help from either party.

[Taffy on the wing]

Two appalling candidates really. There should be an upper age limit for becoming President, or Prime Minster. There’s a real risk on of Trump or Biden could die in office bully the look of them.

Biden came across better than I thought he would the other week, and Trump did himself no favours by constantly interrupting. I thought the media chase regarding the white supremacist section was ridiculous considering his previous statements on it. It was a non-story really.

The Pence/Harris debate was much more civilised, and I kind of felt sorry for Pence as he was only ever going to be accused of “Mansplaining” with there being two women up there, with one, and the media, determined to make him look bad. He seemed calm and collected whilst Harris’ smile and “I’m talking” can’t have come across well?

Harris got away with too much perhaps, especially the lie about Abraham Lincoln and pulling the race card when she was cornered. It seemed rehearsed as you’d expect.

I don’t believe these debates make anybody change their mind.

Looks like somebody is Mansplaining to himself in the mirror!
Which part of Trump refusing to condemn White Supremacists do you NOT understand?
Sweet of you to feel sorry for the "Sycophant of the Century" Mike Pence, while criticizing those "two Women".
Harris was much the better debater and actually answered the Questions....not all of them but a hell of a lot more than Pence.
She's a lot smarter than him and beat him handily.

[HahaYeah]

Trump Hasn't Disavowed White Supremacy? D.C. Liberals Didn't Expect Me To Have This Video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b8QJA4s8sM


Trump disavows racists compliation - Mark Dice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SchJMoKcqY8

Donald Trump condemns the KKK, white supremacists, and the Proud Boys on Fox News interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPnXooDJqns

Trump denouncing racism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDFGggeOmHE

[Claretforever]

Looks like somebody is Mansplaining to himself in the mirror!
Which part of Trump refusing to condemn White Supremacists do you NOT understand?
Sweet of you to feel sorry for the "Sycophant of the Century" Mike Pence, while criticizing those "two Women".
Harris was much the better debater and actually answered the Questions....not all of them but a hell of a lot more than Pence.
She's a lot smarter than him and beat him handily.

I hadn’t intended to trigger anybody with that comment, I was just assessing what the left wing American media were suggesting. A debate of this nature will always mean one will want to get their point across, and it wouldn’t have mattered had the moderator and Harris been men, Pence would have still said what he said in that way. By using that term the media are trying to spin a sexist line, when it didn’t come across that way to most. If you’re at that level you have to expect that and not try to play a line. The American media is rather entrenched in their positioning though. Real journalism doesn’t appear to widely exist over there right now.

Regarding white supremacist I understand it perfectly. I’m not sure why you’ve taken an aggressive stance, but it’s quite clear to anybody who has been watching even a little of what’s been going on that he had already condemned them on numerous occasions. The one issue within that line of questioning was when Biden threw Proud Boys into the mix. I’ll put your response down to not having seen the many times he had done so anyway. What’s he supposed to do, condemn them every day at the beginning of each speech? That’d be rather ridiculous as he has never strayed from his position on white supremacist and racist groups.

You ignored the point where I mention Harris had lied to suit her purpose. But that’s okay I suppose.

[Taffy on the wing]

Trump Hasn't Disavowed White Supremacy? D.C. Liberals Didn't Expect Me To Have This Video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b8QJA4s8sM


Trump disavows racists compliation - Mark Dice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SchJMoKcqY8

Donald Trump condemns the KKK, white supremacists, and the Proud Boys on Fox News interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPnXooDJqns

Trump denouncing racism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDFGggeOmHE

Like everything else he says it's a lie & everybody knows it!

[HahaYeah]

Which part of Trump refusing to condemn White Supremacists do you NOT understand?

Trump Hasn't Disavowed White Supremacy? D.C. Liberals Didn't Expect Me To Have This Video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b8QJA4s8sM


Trump disavows racists compliation - Mark Dice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SchJMoKcqY8

Donald Trump condemns the KKK, white supremacists, and the Proud Boys on Fox News interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPnXooDJqns

Trump denouncing racism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDFGggeOmHE

Like everything else he says it's a lie & everybody knows it!

...

[tiger76]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54497567Yet another waste of life in America, sadly this is only likely to increase in the run-up to November's poll.

[Spijed]

And Donald Trump gets another endorsement.

This time from the Taliban...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ement.html

[HahaYeah]

Another endorsement for the Donald



Sex Pistols frontman John Lydon, aka “Johnny Rotten,” has confirmed that he is “definitely” voting for President Donald Trump in America’s upcoming presidential election, railing against the establishment politicians who’ve been running the country.

Lydon, who is English but became an American citizen in 2013, said he doesn’t care about Trump’s personality but rather a continued shake-up of the political system.

“He’s an individual thinker, I’ll give him that for a start,” he said in an interview with BBC’s Newsday. “He’s not the most lovable fellow on God’s earth, but I cannot see the opposition as offering me anything by way of a solution.”

“Yes, of course, I’m voting for Trump,” Lydon later added. “It’s bad person or not. I don’t want a politician running this world anymore.”

The 64-year-old, who led the Sex Pistols in the late 1970s when the British punk group was in its heydey, previously identified himself as a supporter of President Barack Obama and criticized Donald Trump and played down his prospects of winning an election.

“No, I can’t see it happening, it’s a minority that supports him at best, and it’s so hateful and ignorant,” he said in an interview with Britain’s Metro newspaper in 2016.

However, Lydon appeared to have performed a volte-face soon after Trump came into office, accusing the left-wing media of trying to smear him as a racist.

“What I dislike is the left-wing media in America are trying to smear the bloke as a racist and that’s completely not true,” the rocker said. “He’s a total cat amongst the pigeons … [He’s] got everybody now involving themselves in a political way. And I’ve been struggling for years to get people to wake up and do that.”

Last month, Lydon also caused anger among sections of his progressive fanbase after he was photographed wearing a “Make America Great Again” shirt inside his apartment building.

[PeterWilton]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54497567Yet another waste of life in America, sadly this is only likely to increase in the run-up to November's poll.

The fascists are trying to pin it on antifa, as usual. That organisation that doesn't exist.

He was killed by a security guard hired by journalists. Because that's how fascist America has become, the journalists need security now just to cover protests.

Sucks that this guy died (I suppose) but I'm more concerned that his fascist friends will retaliate against the press.

[PeterWilton]

And Donald Trump gets another endorsement.

This time from the Taliban...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ement.html

Meanwhile Biden has the endorsement of 500 retired American military leaders.

Such a difficult choose for the "patriots". Do they go with the American military, or with the taliban. Decisions, decisions.

[Rileybobs]

Meanwhile Biden has the endorsement of 500 retired American military leaders.

Such a difficult choose for the "patriots". Do they go with the American military, or with the taliban. Decisions, decisions.

To be fair it’s the taliban and Johnny Rotten.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

So do you vote for the side that's backed by a group that keep going to war in predominantly Muslim countries and making a massive mess of it or for the side that what's to stop going to war in predominantly Muslim countries...

Tough choice there.

[daveisaclaret]

So do you vote for the side that's backed by a group that keep going to war in predominantly Muslim countries and making a massive mess of it or for the side that what's to stop going to war in predominantly Muslim countries...

Tough choice there.

A "both sides" argument but one of the sides is the Taliban. Wow.

[PeterWilton]

The Taliban do have a lot more on common with the Republicans than the Democrats do. Religious fanaticism, denial of science, hatred of progressives and social progress, hatred for education and academia, xenophobia and tribalism, control over women, hatred for dissenters and protesters.

The Republican is the American Taliban, and the more they lose voters the more they will move away from democracy as a means of maintaining power. And they're already a long way down that road away from it.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

A "both sides" argument but one of the sides is the Taliban. Wow.

This isn't about the Taliban though is it?

Trump is withdrawing troops, something that goes against the psyche of the Americans who seem to enjoy sending their soldiers abroad regardless of the mess it seems to cause more often than not.
They haven't made Iraq that much better, Afghanistan is sliding backwards again and those are the places I have memories of.

Biden has hundreds of veterans supporting him, but why is that?
Does Biden want to carry on sending soldiers abroad, I'm asking because I don't know his foreign policy.

[daveisaclaret]

The Taliban do have a lot more on common with the Republicans than the Democrats do. Religious fanaticism, denial of science, hatred of progressives and social progress, hatred for education and academia, xenophobia and tribalism, control over women, hatred for dissenters and protesters.

The Republican is the American Taliban, and the more they lose voters the more they will move away from democracy as a means of maintaining power. And they're already a long way down that road away from it.

The comparison isn't trivial and I generally agree with it, though it's important to note that as unconcerned by democracy as the GOP is the Taliban took power by conquest.

The actual difference is of course that the Taliban are at war with America and want Trump to win the election. To consider that in terms of a serious endorsement comparable to anything Biden has received is absurd and scramblebrained.

[daveisaclaret]

This isn't about the Taliban though is it?

Trump is withdrawing troops, something that goes against the psyche of the Americans who seem to enjoy sending their soldiers abroad regardless of the mess it seems to cause more often than not.
They haven't made Iraq that much better, Afghanistan is sliding backwards again and those are the places I have memories of.

Biden has hundreds of veterans supporting him, but why is that?
Does Biden want to carry on sending soldiers abroad, I'm asking because I don't know his foreign policy.

If you don't know his foreign policy you'd probably be better off not discussing it.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

If you don't know his foreign policy you'd probably be better off not discussing it.

I've just read it.
It's a bit vague, he supports some intervention and not others.

[PeterWilton]

I've just read it.
It's a bit vague, he supports some intervention and not others.

I support some intervention and not others. Don't you?

For example, I support intervention on humanitarian reasons (like how we should have intervened in Rwanda) but not economic reasons like Afghanistan and Iraq.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I support some intervention and not others. Don't you?

For example, I support intervention on humanitarian reasons (like how we should have intervened in Rwanda) but not economic reasons like Afghanistan and Iraq.

Based on previous form the US will do exactly what you suggest.... Oh wait

[PeterWilton]

Based on previous form the US will do exactly what you suggest.... Oh wait

Probably not, but I'm far more likely to get the kind of interventions I want under a Biden Presidency than any Republican one.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Probably not, but I'm far more likely to get the kind of interventions I want under a Biden Presidency than any Republican one.

Based on?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... s-less-war

Seems the Guardian aren't expecting much from him ref foreign policy

[PeterWilton]

Based on?

The last 20 years.

[PeterWilton]

It looks like the republicans were right. Election fraud does happen.

https://www.ocregister.com/2020/10/11/u ... officials/

[Buxtonclaret]

It looks like the republicans were right. Election fraud does happen.

https://www.ocregister.com/2020/10/11/u ... officials/

Can imagine this sort of thing will be recurring these next couple of weeks or so.
Nobody will discover who's behind it......
But Orange Man will be able to spout "I told you so" rants on Twitter .

[Spijed]

Can imagine this sort of thing will be recurring these next couple of weeks or so.
Nobody will discover who's behind it......
But Orange Man will be able to spout "I told you so" rants on Twitter .

If there are post boxes outside Republican offices it's clearly obvious they are going to destroy the ballots if they think people are voting in favour of the Democrats.

[PeterWilton]

Can imagine this sort of thing will be recurring these next couple of weeks or so.
Nobody will discover who's behind it......
But Orange Man will be able to spout "I told you so" rants on Twitter .

It's the Republicans, Buxton. They're behind it, and bragging about it.

[KateR]

more excuses, and after pages of "He is lying, you can't have fraud it's all safe, mail in is not a problem"

[dsr]

If there are post boxes outside Republican offices it's clearly obvious they are going to destroy the ballots if they think people are voting in favour of the Democrats.

It's clearly obvious that they are going to put them in areas where they think republicans will get votes. It's not uncommon for political parties to try and make it easier for their own voters to vote.

I think it's a stretch too far to assume that they are going to destroy the ballots they don't like. Do you assume that UK parties who facilitate postal votes, do so because they are going to open them, destroy the "bad" ones, and reseal the envelopes? If not, why assume it of republicans?

[Spijed]

It's clearly obvious that they are going to put them in areas where they think republicans will get votes. It's not uncommon for political parties to try and make it easier for their own voters to vote.

I think it's a stretch too far to assume that they are going to destroy the ballots they don't like. Do you assume that UK parties who facilitate postal votes, do so because they are going to open them, destroy the "bad" ones, and reseal the envelopes? If not, why assume it of republicans?

But haven't they said some of those boxes aren't legal?

[dsr]

But haven't they said some of those boxes aren't legal?

It's been said that they haven't been done in the proper legal form by the official returning officer or US equivalent. Which may be true, though apparently it's arguable. But it's a long, long step from saying that the Republicans are putting drop boxes which don't technically comply with the law, to saying the Republicans are planning to destroy votes.

More than three quarters of Californians voted by mail or other absentee means in the last Presidential election. These ballots may be posted, or collected at drop boxes. In the 2016 election, that ballot had to be posted or delivered only by the voter or by a relative or person in the same household.

The Democratic government of California decided this was unduly restrictive and so changed the law in 2017, so that anyone and everyone is allowed to collect the ballot papers and take them to the post. There is also provision for the state to put drop boxes down. And the argument here is that some people have put drop boxes down which aren't official drop boxes and therefore aren't a technically legal way for the voter to give the ballot paper to the deliverer.

No-one is arguing that the Republicans shouldn't be collecting votes from their supporters or their opponents; just that this way of doing it doesn't meet the technical specifications in law. The main danger isn't the destruction of ballots, it's that the collected votes won't count.

[PeterWilton]

more excuses, and after pages of "He is lying, you can't have fraud it's all safe, mail in is not a problem"

Definitely a Trumper.

[PeterWilton]

It's clearly obvious that they are going to put them in areas where they think republicans will get votes. It's not uncommon for political parties to try and make it easier for their own voters to vote.

I think it's a stretch too far to assume that they are going to destroy the ballots they don't like. Do you assume that UK parties who facilitate postal votes, do so because they are going to open them, destroy the "bad" ones, and reseal the envelopes? If not, why assume it of republicans?

It's election fraud to claim an unofficial drop box is an official drop box, like the one in the picture tweeted out by the... *checks notes*... "regional field director for the California Republican Party".

[Vegas Claret]

honestly, reading everything i am and seeing everything I am there is only one way the Republicans will hold onto power and it involves cheating. Like I've stated before, I'm nether a Rep nor a Dem but I'm all in to get rid of the Republicans and as many of them as I can this time around. Abhorrent examples of the human race

[dsr]

It's election fraud to claim an unofficial drop box is an official drop box, like the one in the picture tweeted out by the... *checks notes*... "regional field director for the California Republican Party".

Is it? If someone says to a voter "drop your vote in here, it's an official box, I will take it to the polling station" - and it turns out it's not an official box but they take it to the polling station anyway - is that electoral fraud, or is it just a breach of electoral rules?

Certainly it's not on a par with what Spijed suggested about destroying votes. That would be proper electoral fraud. If that's happening, it's something to get worked up about.

[KateR]

Definitely a Trumper.

how anyone can be so consistently wrong about every subject they comment upon is quite beyond me but at least you're consistent if nothing else, yet there are another few adjectives that would suit your character quite well.

[Spijed]

Is it? If someone says to a voter "drop your vote in here, it's an official box, I will take it to the polling station" - and it turns out it's not an official box but they take it to the polling station anyway - is that electoral fraud, or is it just a breach of electoral rules?

Certainly it's not on a par with what Spijed suggested about destroying votes. That would be proper electoral fraud. If that's happening, it's something to get worked up about.

When Donald Trump says the election is rigged, without any shred of evidence whatsoever then is it any surprise the Democrats are getting a bit nervous in thinking Trump wants to hold onto power, and if that involves cheating he will do just that?

[dsr]

When Donald Trump says the election is rigged, without any shred of evidence whatsoever then is it any surprise the Democrats are getting a bit nervous in thinking Trump wants to hold onto power, and if that involves cheating he will do just that?

Not at all surprising. After all, they're still upset about GW Bush and Florida.

But if they are concerned about electoral fraud and this is considered to be proof, then probably their worries (so far, at least) are unfounded. This is trivia. Like you say, if they are going to rig or destroy the votes that are entered, then it's a deadly serious matter, but I haven't seen any evidence of that.

The drop box thing has been rumbling on for months. In basic outline, the Democrats want more drop boxes, the Republicans want less. That's the irony in this case!

[PeterWilton]

Is it? If someone says to a voter "drop your vote in here, it's an official box, I will take it to the polling station" - and it turns out it's not an official box but they take it to the polling station anyway - is that electoral fraud, or is it just a breach of electoral rules?

Certainly it's not on a par with what Spijed suggested about destroying votes. That would be proper electoral fraud. If that's happening, it's something to get worked up about.

Lol. Yes. What you just described is felony election fraud. Those ballots have to be thrown out because the chain of custody is compromised.

[Buxtonclaret]

It's the Republicans, Buxton. They're behind it, and bragging about it.

Well yes.
But nobody will discover who's behind it.......



They might.
But it'll be too late.
And if it implicates the Satsuma, he'll just dismiss it as fake news.
Bit by bit, he's just dismantling anything & everything democratic that's held USA together since it's birth.
Pretty sure I alluded to it months ago on t'other thread that disappeared, it's really like watching a contemporary version of 1930s Germany.
The most bizarre aspect of all this is that he's been telling everyone, in one way or the other, what he's going to do to stay in power most of this year!

[Greenmile]

....I'd imagine both sides would prefer Pence than creepy Joe

One of the two men mentioned in this sentence will not allow himself to attend any event serving alcohol or eat a meal with a woman unless his wife (who he calls “mother”) is also present.

The other is a guy who Damo thinks is “creepy”.

[android]

One of the two men mentioned in this sentence will not allow himself to attend any event serving alcohol or eat a meal with a woman unless his wife (who he calls “mother”) is also present.

The other is a guy who Damo thinks is “creepy”.

Would you say that if Pence were a muslim rather than a Christian?

I know little of Pence. But I reckon I would prefer my daughter to work for him rather than the grabbing Trump or touchy feely sniffy Biden.

It doesn't look good whoever wins.

[PeterWilton]

Would you say that if Pence were a muslim rather than a Christian?

I know little of Pence. But I reckon I would prefer my daughter to work for him rather than the grabbing Trump or touchy feely sniffy Biden.

It doesn't look good whoever wins.

If I raise a daughter that would even want to work for Trump or Pence I'd disown them and vow to have no more kids since I clearly raise shitty children.

Trump has been good friends with multiple paedophiles and himself credibly accused of raping kids, and Pence is a religious extremist like something out of Handmaid's Tale.

I think if much rather have my kid work for someone who in 47 years of public service has been accused of possibly smelling someone's hair.

[AlargeClaret]

If I raise a daughter that would even want to work for Trump or Pence I'd disown them and vow to have no more kids since I clearly raise shitty children.

Trump has been good friends with multiple paedophiles and himself credibly accused of raping kids, and Pence is a religious extremist like something out of Handmaid's Tale.

I think if much rather have my kid work for someone who in 47 years of public service has been accused of possibly smelling someone's hair.

Just to be clear , while I realise your post is reeking of virtue , are you seriously supposing Trump has “ raped young children “ ??