Dyche Today

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by Long Time Lurker » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:18 pm

LaLigaClaret wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:40 pm
Lack of pace. check

Lack of creativity. check

etc. etc.
You missed out **** recruitment on the back of heavy increased investment in that area.

Similar to last season we seem to have wasted away most of the window and a lot of opportunities chasing after headline grabbers and older stop gaps. We should have been focusing on finding the quality bargains " within our budget " that went elsewhere. The availability and probable cost of those players was very predictable.

Had we done that the problem of not being able to afford players would have gone away, along with most of the other things you mentioned.

**** scouting, a **** transfer strategy ( which hurt us by letting players leave and so far failing to replace them ), **** targets ( who were poor value, unrealistic or both ) and seemingly waiting around to see how the other clubs handled the impact of Corona before making our moves. All of those things appear to have hurt us in this window and what is worse is that the same things made our life difficult last Summer.

Had we not struck it lucky with the unexpected signing of Brownhill in the Winter window and then done a U-Turn with Bardsley we would be in an even worse position than we currently are.

We recognised that our recruitment had to improve to take us forward, Garlick signed the cheque to give a big boost to investment in that area, sanctioned the hiring of more people and the return for that commitment to change has been even poorer recruitment.

I noticed in the press conference that Dyche didn't believe keeping hold of Hendrick was a lost cause until we made it one by the decisions that we took and the contract we presented him with ( possibly not putting in a suitable offer until it was to late ).

Our new recruitment - great at getting players our of the door, **** at replacing them.

The same impact is also being felt in our development squads. Huge numbers of players leaving the club, the scant signings we made last season didn't really work out and the in comings this season have been few. We are now at the stage were our U23 squad only has enough players because we have moved up a lot of our U18 players early.
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Re: Dyche Today

Post by JTClaret » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:20 pm

claret10 wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:58 pm
I'm no expert but take the profit we made last year....then take away the number branded about in lost revenue due to the coronavirus this year and I'm sure you will have a fair indication.....frustrating yes but unfortunately we just don't have the personal wealth of an owner to back us up
Thanks. Would you say it's mainly down to rich owners then? This is the first year of Covid, but it's every year with the frustration I imagine Dyche is getting fed up with.

I'll never be one to say 'Garlick should invest more' or 'Garlick out', I'd just like to understand more of the struggles Garlick has to face in running the club. When it comes to this stuff he just seems to go quiet or say words that say nothing which just adds to the frustration.

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by scouseclaret » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:23 pm

Is the press conference online anywhere yet?

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by jtv » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:23 pm

The impression I got was that SD was trying not to break into a laugh between one question and the next at the start when he was giving all those terse answers to questions about transfers. Any psychologists on here who can read people's faces better than myself?

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by JTClaret » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:26 pm

dsr wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:15 pm
We can compete but choose to go a different way. Bournemouth, for example, had similar income but spent £30-£40m more each season. Which is why they have had to sell everyone with value after getting relegated. Because they were £200m+ in debt. Brighton's owner is chucking £50m per year at them. After the demise of Norwich and Watford last season, who's left on anything like the same budget as us? West Brom, yes, but anyone else?

We could spend more. We could borrow some money on the proviso that if we go down we have to sell the best players and not replace them - which is not how it worked last time. Last time we lost Ings but signed Gray. That wouldn't work if we were over-borrowed.

I think Garlick's approach is the right one, and certainly it was the right one when Dyche was on board with it. Now, who knows. But if Dyche is not happy, then who's to say he would become happy if we signed H.Wilson and A.N.Other? If the spark has gone, it may have gone for good. In the meantime, pushing the boat out for Wilson isn't going to stop Dyche leaving if another, richer club wants to appoint him.
Nice one. I've always been of this understanding. It'd be nice to have the odd star arrive at Turf Moor. It's just the more frustration seemingly from Dyche it does make you question it. My only really worry is the increased fees for Championship players that we refuse to pay (rightly if they don't think they are good enough) is how do we continue with the same strategy.

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by evensteadiereddie » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:31 pm

Interesting. The Tarkowski saga and all the drama-queenery that entailed ends only to be replaced immediately by yet another Dyche is going yarn.

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by kentonclaret » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:36 pm

During these times of Covid19 and the big financial hit taken by all clubs then now, as never before, clubs are going to want to maximise the price received for any assets (players) that they have.

Weren't we asking £50 million for Tarkowski?

Burnley have always been happy to make sure that they receive full value (including a premium) when selling, but when it comes to buying they always trot out the old line "above our valuation".

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by diamondpocket » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:37 pm

scouseclaret wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:23 pm
Is the press conference online anywhere yet?
Yeah on the official site.

The OP is absolute nonsense, there's no fury or smoke pouring out of his ears and Sean hasn't turned into Stone Cold Steve Austin just yet!
It's his usual calm considered jokey manner that gives nothing away and I wouldnt be surprised if someone is in the building over the weekend.

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by The Enclosure » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:44 pm

PANews_P-1c721cd3-a691-479b-93a5-963c2406953c_I1 (1).jpg
PANews_P-1c721cd3-a691-479b-93a5-963c2406953c_I1 (1).jpg (13.65 KiB) Viewed 3308 times
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Re: Dyche Today

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:44 pm

The bit I don’t get is why the Americans (if they understand relegation) are not insisting we have a squad capable of surviving given they could take over and not have a window for months. One or two injuries to key people in a week’s time.....Tarky and Wood being two I’d fear.

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by kentonclaret » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:45 pm

"and I wouldn't be surprised if someone is in the building over the weekend"

There is always a security guard doing the rounds. :lol:

Ben Mee must be just as frustrated as SD. In an article published a few weeks ago Ben spoke of the need to bring in 2 or 3 players to avoid filling the bench with untried youngsters, as was the case after the restart, which he felt wasn't ideal.
Last edited by kentonclaret on Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by Wokingclaret » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:48 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:23 pm
I've been telling you that for over a year now.




Where?



Why?



You can smell it

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by Conroy92 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:57 pm

Some people saying don't worry investment on the way, but a poor start to the season and beiing towards the bottom 3 come December might make potential Investors reconsider. Of course we usually go on to have a good run the second half of the season but it looks like these guys have had tabs on a few clubs so you never know. I don't think we can afford to wait, 1-2 signings required still, RM and CB. I'd take Dawson and one of Wilson/Quaison/Elliason/Samuel. I've become less picky as the windows gone on. It's still not a good window with the above as again it puts on the rebuilding job for another year.

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:04 pm

Black, like the clouds of death that follow me into the Forest of Doom, and hide in the wardrobe of darkness!

Oh, the monks are troubled and full of woe, I'm a fly trapped in a jar of shadows!

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by Tall Paul » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:06 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:44 pm
The bit I don’t get is why the Americans (if they understand relegation) are not insisting we have a squad capable of surviving given they could take over and not have a window for months. One or two injuries to key people in a week’s time.....Tarky and Wood being two I’d fear.
Maybe they do think we have squad capable of surviving, like the bookies and most people who aren't neurotic Burnley fans.

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by bfcmik » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:15 pm

LaLigaClaret wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:02 pm
Your having a laugh, first club to get rid of a manager in the PL this season he will walk straight into. He is being treated appallingly and the club will be totally screwed if he goes. Its an absolute joke.
No EMPLOYEE is bigger than the club/company they work for! If you get to that stage then you are seriously f***ed anyway. The club will still be here when Dyche leaves - as people have been telling us he will at every new PL job vacancy announcement - and it will still be here long after every current player and coaching team member has moved on. It may be a difficult job retaining our Premier League status but we will keep plugging away until we are relegated and then we will keep plugging away at whichever level we stabilise at. Most of our 138 year history has NOT been as a level 1 club!
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Re: Dyche Today

Post by Long Time Lurker » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:15 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:44 pm
The bit I don’t get is why the Americans (if they understand relegation) are not insisting we have a squad capable of surviving given they could take over and not have a window for months. One or two injuries to key people in a week’s time.....Tarky and Wood being two I’d fear.
If we stay up then we could go on making a small profit each year, after we have paid wages and other running costs. In the past that has been boosted by money coming in from the players we have sold.

However, if we happen to get relegated then all the older players looking for new contracts will get reduced deals or they will be cut loose. Our best players will leave, lowering the wage bill again and bringing in money from their transfer fees. Everyone else will receive a relegation wage reduction if that is in their contract.

All of that will reduce the salary part of our running costs. Falling down a level would probably also trigger the " cut our cloth " proclamation and a lot of people associated with the club might be let go, possibly with Covid in the excuse picture.

The new owners use the parachute payments and money received from selling off our most valuable players to pay themselves back the money they bought the club with. After that whoever is in charge of our recruitment would be given the opportunity to preside over a complete squad overhaul and possibly pick a new manager for us. The incoming players would be on lower wages.

Club bought, the money used to buy the club paid back in full with a nice profit attached, running costs reduced, a complete change in how the club is run and who is running it. No new investment is made. If the club is prosperous after that then great, but if it isn't the investors won't lose out because they will have already got all their money back and a profit - anything more is a bonus.

It's called asset stripping. As a quick return investment opportunity we are probably worth more dead ( or at least dying ) than alive.

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by Billyblah » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:15 pm

I can understand Dyche being frustrated not only in a lack of signings to build the team.and preserve Premiership status but also in the incompetence which allowed Hendrick (who was a fairly major asset) to run down his contract and walk out of the door.
As far as Dyche heading anywhere else? Well given the Fulham manager and Chairman are at logger heads, if that job became vacant, words such as "frying pan" and "fire" come to mind. Similarly with West Ham, another 'car crash club ' when it comes to the relationship between Board and a series of managers. Dyche doesn't really have much of an escape route in the Premiership but the alarm bells are ringing with the manner in which the Board and Chairman are running the club during a very crucial part of the season.

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by fidelcastro » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:21 pm

LaLigaClaret wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:53 pm
Face like thunder. His voice loud and and clearly totally pi**ed off with the lack of transfers.

WTF is going on. He will walk if Monday goes by and nothing changes and whats more other players will be gone in the next window to.

It looks like we are going down. Its so depressing that the Board have treated Dyche the way they have, their a total bloody disgrace. Garlick must go.
That's the spirit.

:roll:

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by bfcmik » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:25 pm

One of the main problems in this saga is that we are only hearing one side of the story. Dyche has a regular opportunity to vent his spleen and displeasure. Mike Garlick does not hold weekly press conferences and chooses not to get involved publicly in a media driven argument. I think SD is behaving in a less than professional manner given the level of operational and managerial control he wields within the club.

The place for these disagreements is in the chairman's office or the boardroom. I sure he is given every opportunity to have his say in those environments. He may, like many of us in employment who wish for better working conditions or additional help, be told to just suck it up and get on with the job, in which case we have (as he does) the choice to seek alternative employment which may, or may not, have greener grass to offer.
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Re: Dyche Today

Post by The Enclosure » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:42 pm

Do the club have monthly/ weekly board meetings these days?
Does Dyche attend these board meetings? The manager always used to do.
Do the other Directors sit there and say nothing and let Garlick do as he wants.I know he is chairman but surely some of them must think like a lot of us fans.

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:47 pm

The Enclosure wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:42 pm
Do the club have monthly/ weekly board meetings these days?
Does Dyche attend these board meetings? The manager always used to do.
Do the other Directors sit there and say nothing and let Garlick do as he wants.I know he is chairman but surely some of them must think like a lot of us fans.
From what I can gather they don't have as many board meetings as they used to and much of the decision making is now made by the executive chairman

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by ClaretAL » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:48 pm

I believe CT commented earlier that there others in the club who are wanting the purse strings to be loosened

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by randomclaret2 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:49 pm

bfcmik wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:15 pm
No EMPLOYEE is bigger than the club/company they work for! If you get to that stage then you are seriously f***ed anyway. The club will still be here when Dyche leaves - as people have been telling us he will at every new PL job vacancy announcement - and it will still be here long after every current player and coaching team member has moved on. It may be a difficult job retaining our Premier League status but we will keep plugging away until we are relegated and then we will keep plugging away at whichever level we stabilise at. Most of our 138 year history has NOT been as a level 1 club!
Very close though...is it something like 58 out of 120 seasons since League Football started ?

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by claret3561 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:53 pm

Bfcmik i think you'll find weve spent more time in the top division than any other

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by claret10 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:56 pm

Thing with Dyche is that he knows that he is as close to untouchable as any manager ever could be and can get away with these "messages" in his press conferences when the truth is that he has certain players offered to him (admittedly not marquee type signings) by the club and decided not to sign them.....one of which would have prevented us from starting the season with Long and Dunne at centre back.

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by claret59 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:22 pm

Its only a couple of seasons ago that we were having a poor season up to Christmas that many posters on here were calling for Dyche to be sacked. Now he is being treated as though he was untouchable. He has been handsomely paid for being Manager of BFC and was appointed here having been sacked from his previous job as Manager. He has had millions to spend over the last few seasons and has done so including some wasted millions in particular Gibson , and Hart. He has been backed by the Board on numerous expensive signings. As for those who left the club in the close season not being replaced there was only Hendrick who could be regarded as a first team regular. The others were fringe players on big salaries and as such were expensive luxuries. Like most on here I have no idea what is going on behind the scenes but it obviously paid Hendrick to run his contract down and that may have have been his intention rather than haggle for a new contract.
Evidently SD is due a £2.5 million 'bonus' in January 2021. By coincidence this is the same amount we are short of signing Wilson.

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by FCBurnley » Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:28 pm

Only a couple of months ago we completed another highly successful season in the PL. This was achieved mainly due to the efforts of the Manager and the s Players. Within a matter of a few weeks we are in the bottom 3 and out of the league cup. Our run of injuries continues. The non actions of our Chairman appear on the surface to be Football suicide. The only logical reason for his actions can be a imminent take over of the clubs and a huge financial pay off to the Chairman. In the meantime we the
Supporters are given t try he mushroom treatment of being kept in the dark and fed s***. It’s going to be a long winter
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Re: Dyche Today

Post by PaintYorkClaretnBlue » Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:36 pm

You do realise that we have only played 2 league games don’t you?
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Re: Dyche Today

Post by Steve1956 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:45 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:52 pm
If Dyche's heart isn't really in it anymore it's a massive problem. It's starting to feel a bit like a loveless marriage, where the couple stays together simply through laziness, or the lack of a better option.
Brilliant love it!😂

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by Steve1956 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:46 pm

The Enclosure wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:44 pm
PANews_P-1c721cd3-a691-479b-93a5-963c2406953c_I1 (1).jpg

They are the best of buddies.
A loveless marriage...2 lazy men! 😁

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by JohnMac » Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:47 pm

If Dyche thinks Wilson is worth Liverpool's valuation that would concern me!

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by JohnMac » Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:55 pm

Billyblah wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:15 pm
I can understand Dyche being frustrated not only in a lack of signings to build the team.and preserve Premiership status but also in the incompetence which allowed Hendrick (who was a fairly major asset) to run down his contract and walk out of the door.
You can't force someone to sign a contract and it was apparently clear he didn't like being here and threw a wobbly at the pittance he was offered :cry:

It's all about money unfortunately.

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:56 pm

Long Time Lurker wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:15 pm
If we stay up then we could go on making a small profit each year, after we have paid wages and other running costs. In the past that has been boosted by money coming in from the players we have sold.

However, if we happen to get relegated then all the older players looking for new contracts will get reduced deals or they will be cut loose. Our best players will leave, lowering the wage bill again and bringing in money from their transfer fees. Everyone else will receive a relegation wage reduction if that is in their contract.

All of that will reduce the salary part of our running costs. Falling down a level would probably also trigger the " cut our cloth " proclamation and a lot of people associated with the club might be let go, possibly with Covid in the excuse picture.

The new owners use the parachute payments and money received from selling off our most valuable players to pay themselves back the money they bought the club with. After that whoever is in charge of our recruitment would be given the opportunity to preside over a complete squad overhaul and possibly pick a new manager for us. The incoming players would be on lower wages.

Club bought, the money used to buy the club paid back in full with a nice profit attached, running costs reduced, a complete change in how the club is run and who is running it. No new investment is made. If the club is prosperous after that then great, but if it isn't the investors won't lose out because they will have already got all their money back and a profit - anything more is a bonus.

It's called asset stripping. As a quick return investment opportunity we are probably worth more dead ( or at least dying ) than alive.
Hi LTL, that's not a great investment proposition. I think you've got things very wrong. If we are correct in identifying ALK Capital as a SPAC - Special-Purpose Acquisition Corporation, then their plan is most likely along the following lines: buy a Premier League club - there are only very few of these available - Burnley is one; aim to keep the club in the Premier League - but, if relegated, aim to get promoted and return to the Premier League very quickly; Burnley is a great choice for this "safety" option, with 3 promotions in 11 seasons. Why is Premier League ownership important? because the proposition is that "high profile sports franchises" have significantly risen in value over recent years - it's already been done in US sports, American football, baseball, basketball, ice hockey and there are opportunities with American soccer - But, "soccer" is dominated by Premier League - plus some other European clubs - so, ownership of a Premier League club is where the big opportunities are - but, all the "big" Premier League clubs are already owned by others - and a seller will want "big" money - for example, Ambromovich quoted as wanting £3bn for Chelsea (ref Jim Ratcliffe - he walked away and bought Nice for a lot less) - so, buy a smaller cheaper club and see how far you can develop it - Burnley fits the profile for "that club."

ALK Capital is not an "asset stripping" operation. They will list their shares on an US stock exchange - because that's how SPACs raise their money. There will be lots of individual investors, quite easily 10s of thousands - a small part of their individual investment portfolios - and not for anyone's "pension security" money - high(er) risk category.

The guys behind ALK Capital, Alan Pace and others, will make their money by getting their investment "free" from having created and sponsored the SPAC opportunity. They gain nothing/very little from "asset stripping" - they make a lot of money, over a few years, if the SPAC is successful - let's say, for example, that ALK buys Burnley for £100 million (I've just made this number up, it could be any number), they would be aiming to exit when the investment in Burnley is a significant multiple of £100m - let's say, £200m or £300m or even £500m. They will do this by being part of the rising value of all Premier League clubs. Maybe, if ALK can get Burnley value to £500m then Alan Pace and friends will receive £50m - and all they have risked is their time, work and brain power.

Of course, there's no guarantee with any investment. Burnley could get relegated - and struggle to win promotion again. Burnley could miss out on growth in value of Premier League clubs - but, that's the investment risk that the investors will be taking.

Exciting times for everyone.

UTC
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Re: Dyche Today

Post by The Enclosure » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:23 pm

Really cannot see a solution to this impasse.Sean does realise i am sure (or i think he must?) that we need to sell before we can buy.
It has always been the Burnley way and frankly it always will be. We are never going to get anyone investing in Burnley that has billions of pounds available unless he did it for a hobby.They would certainly not do it to ever get a return on their investment.
If Sean keeps his head down and carries on doing what he has been sucessful at doing over the past 8 years then he can show other owners they do not need to spend millions of pounds on players because Dyche can manage what he has available.
If we get relegated this year or next so be it...the Burnley way is to fight our way back.Keep the faith boys and enjoy the ride.

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by FCBurnley » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:27 pm

PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:36 pm
You do realise that we have only played 2 league games don’t you?
Yes I do. I also realize that at the end of tomorrow we will have played 7.9% of our season and have 3,1 or zero points

Reecey1987
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Re: Dyche Today

Post by Reecey1987 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:32 pm

The Enclosure wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:23 pm
Really cannot see a solution to this impasse.Sean does realise i am sure (or i think he must?) that we need to sell before we can buy.
It has always been the Burnley way and frankly it always will be. We are never going to get anyone investing in Burnley that has billions of pounds available unless he did it for a hobby.They would certainly not do it to ever get a return on their investment.
If Sean keeps his head down and carries on doing what he has been sucessful at doing over the past 8 years then he can show other owners they do not need to spend millions of pounds on players because Dyche can manage what he has available.
If we get relegated this year or next so be it...the Burnley way is to fight our way back.Keep the faith boys and enjoy the ride.
Its looking more like we was putting all our eggs in one basket and hoping leicster, West ham was going to pay top dollar for tarks which give us extra finance to strengthen. Leicester decided to go elsewhere so now we havnt got that extra money to sign anybody else thats why we paid 500 k for a 3rd choice gk and 1 million for a midfielder which I think is a shrewd signing . Covid 19 seems the perfect excuse for us spending as little as we can and nobody can argue . The question is would we be spending more if covid wasn't around? Its the million dollar question

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by DomBFC1882 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:39 pm

Reecey1987 wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:32 pm
Its looking more like we was putting all our eggs in one basket and hoping leicster, West ham was going to pay top dollar for tarks which give us extra finance to strengthen. Leicester decided to go elsewhere so now we havnt got that extra money to sign anybody else thats why we paid 500 k for a 3rd choice gk and 1 million for a midfielder which I think is a shrewd signing . Covid 19 seems the perfect excuse for us spending as little as we can and nobody can argue . The question is would we be spending more if covid wasn't around? Its the million dollar question
Would we hell as like. Its been like this for several transfer windows now.
Last edited by DomBFC1882 on Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ClaretTony
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Re: Dyche Today

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:40 pm

I've just seen the part of the press conference referred to by the OP. Nothing in it, he's just being Dyche playing with a reporter.

One of my favourites was after the Watford away game in 2016/17. We'd had Jeff Hendrick sent off after about six minutes, went 1-0 down and then conceded a second right on half time although we played well second half and only lost 2-1.

After the game:

Reporter: Did you think the sending off and the goal right on half time affected the result?
Dyche: No.

Absolutely dead pan while clearly wanting to laugh. The reporter didn't know what to ask next.
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The Enclosure
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Re: Dyche Today

Post by The Enclosure » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:41 pm

I doubt we would Reecey, not without selling one of our star players first.
You look back over the years.we have always had to sell to survive and purchase new players.Sell high (ish) and purchase low has been the way. Usually.

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by Reecey1987 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:42 pm

DomBFC1882 wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:39 pm
Would it hell as like. Its been like this for several transfer windows now.
thats my personal thoughts . I think covid 19 is the perfect excuse to spend as little as we can. I know we have lost money but who hasn't? We have been saving for a rainy day for years now and now is the time to use it
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Re: Dyche Today

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:53 pm

Reecey1987 wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:42 pm
thats my personal thoughts . I think covid 19 is the perfect excuse to spend as little as we can. I know we have lost money but who hasn't? We have been saving for a rainy day for years now and now is the time to use it
To be fair, if we're only making £5 million profit a season, and we have £40 million saved up, but that may be needed should a rebate on the TV money be needed, then even fag packet calculations means that we never have too much to spend outside of profit on player sales.

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by Long Time Lurker » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:53 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:56 pm

Of course, there's no guarantee with any investment. Burnley could get relegated - and struggle to win promotion again. Burnley could miss out on growth in value of Premier League clubs - but, that's the investment risk that the investors will be taking.

Exciting times for everyone.

UTC
The quickest way to achieve a value of 500m in football is to invest 1bn. English football clubs don't generally make money, they lose it. Achieving what you suggest as an end goal would mean breaking into the top six and spending a huge amount of money to do that. The advantage that City and Chelsea have is individual investors who can decide to shovel money in, which is different from asking more from a multitude of investors.

The quickest and surest way to post a profit would be to asset strip us and then try to build up what is left after the investors are repaid to post even more profit.

So, following on from the asset stripping some of the excess capital would be used to bankroll the purchase of new players to try and win promotion. If that is done then money will pour back into the coffers and the value of player sin a promoted squad will also rise, generating additional revenue from transfers.

However, that all hinges on having a recruitment team that can deliver results. Not a recruitment team that can't even find us a young central midfielder, a young winger and a young left sided centre back in a transfer window that was rich with opportunities for picking up players cheaply.

The two apps that ALK bought a month or so ago don't really help with scouting first team players. One of them is concerned with replacing agents with an inter club market place and the other is about scouting youngsters for the development squads.

I can see the value in owning a club, because it would open doors within the football community to establish those apps, but not a lot beyond that. In terms of finding and signing players we would be banking on the effectiveness of packages like WYSCOUT ( which every club has access to ) and the ability of our recruitment team to get the most value from that ( which they are current failing to do ).
Last edited by Long Time Lurker on Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Enclosure
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Re: Dyche Today

Post by The Enclosure » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:54 pm

Reecey1987 wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:42 pm
thats my personal thoughts . I think covid 19 is the perfect excuse to spend as little as we can. I know we have lost money but who hasn't? We have been saving for a rainy day for years now and now is the time to use it
I dont think the rainy days are here just yet but they will be before the winter is out and we will need any dry powder just to survive I reckon.Spending 20 million on a player without selling a player first will just not happen...in my opinion

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by Leisure » Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:34 pm

FCBurnley wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:27 pm
Yes I do. I also realize that at the end of tomorrow we will have played 7.9% of our season and have 3,1 or zero points
And?

Roger1960
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Re: Dyche Today

Post by Roger1960 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:35 pm

The truth is our owners do not have the sort of surplus cash from their businesses to splash on £30+m players especially during COVID which will have hurt them badly. so the only way they could be bought is by loading the club with the debt. SD knows this hence his frustration I suspect because if he spends £60m on players and we go down on his watch and that’s a debt round the clubs neck it rather muddies his cv

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by AlargeClaret » Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:38 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:56 pm
Hi LTL, that's not a great investment proposition. I think you've got things very wrong. If we are correct in identifying ALK Capital as a SPAC - Special-Purpose Acquisition Corporation, then their plan is most likely along the following lines: buy a Premier League club - there are only very few of these available - Burnley is one; aim to keep the club in the Premier League - but, if relegated, aim to get promoted and return to the Premier League very quickly; Burnley is a great choice for this "safety" option, with 3 promotions in 11 seasons. Why is Premier League ownership important? because the proposition is that "high profile sports franchises" have significantly risen in value over recent years - it's already been done in US sports, American football, baseball, basketball, ice hockey and there are opportunities with American soccer - But, "soccer" is dominated by Premier League - plus some other European clubs - so, ownership of a Premier League club is where the big opportunities are - but, all the "big" Premier League clubs are already owned by others - and a seller will want "big" money - for example, Ambromovich quoted as wanting £3bn for Chelsea (ref Jim Ratcliffe - he walked away and bought Nice for a lot less) - so, buy a smaller cheaper club and see how far you can develop it - Burnley fits the profile for "that club."

ALK Capital is not an "asset stripping" operation. They will list their shares on an US stock exchange - because that's how SPACs raise their money. There will be lots of individual investors, quite easily 10s of thousands - a small part of their individual investment portfolios - and not for anyone's "pension security" money - high(er) risk category.

The guys behind ALK Capital, Alan Pace and others, will make their money by getting their investment "free" from having created and sponsored the SPAC opportunity. They gain nothing/very little from "asset stripping" - they make a lot of money, over a few years, if the SPAC is successful - let's say, for example, that ALK buys Burnley for £100 million (I've just made this number up, it could be any number), they would be aiming to exit when the investment in Burnley is a significant multiple of £100m - let's say, £200m or £300m or even £500m. They will do this by being part of the rising value of all Premier League clubs. Maybe, if ALK can get Burnley value to £500m then Alan Pace and friends will receive £50m - and all they have risked is their time, work and brain power.

Of course, there's no guarantee with any investment. Burnley could get relegated - and struggle to win promotion again. Burnley could miss out on growth in value of Premier League clubs - but, that's the investment risk that the investors will be taking.

Exciting times for everyone.

UTC
Fantastic post Paul very informative 👍

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:52 pm

Long Time Lurker wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:53 pm
The quickest way to achieve a value of 500m in football is to invest 1bn. English football clubs don't generally make money, they lose it. Achieving what you suggest as an end goal would mean breaking into the top six and spending a huge amount of money to do that. The advantage that City and Chelsea have is individual investors who can decide to shovel money in, which is different from asking more from a multitude of investors.

The quickest and surest way to post a profit would be to asset strip us and then try to build up what is left after the investors are repaid to post even more profit.

So, following on from the asset stripping some of the excess capital would be used to bankroll the purchase of new players to try and win promotion. If that is done then money will pour back into the coffers and the value of player sin a promoted squad will also rise, generating additional revenue from transfers.

However, that all hinges on having a recruitment team that can deliver results. Not a recruitment team that can't even find us a young central midfielder, a young winger and a young left sided centre back in a transfer window that was rich with opportunities for picking up players cheaply.

The two apps that ALK bought a month or so ago don't really help with scouting first team players. One of them is concerned with replacing agents with an inter club market place and the other is about scouting youngsters for the development squads.

I can see the value in owning a club, because it would open doors within the football community to establish those apps, but not a lot beyond that. In terms of finding and signing players we would be banking on the effectiveness of packages like WYSCOUT ( which every club has access to ) and the ability of our recruitment team to get the most value from that ( which they are current failing to do ).
I'm sorry, LTL, you' are looking at things the wrong way. The gain ALK (or any SPAC) would be looking to make out of owning Burnley would be in the appreciation of value from being a Premier League football club - and along with the appreciation in value of all the other Premier League clubs. This will come from greater exposure, more tv viewers and many other commercial link ups for all of the Premier League. Their plan does not require Burnley to break into the top 6 - maintaining mid-table season after season is all they will require to double and treble their money, so log as the value of all Premier League clubs doubles and trebles over that time. As before, the risk of relegation, mitigated by strong opportunity to win promotion, adequately rewards the financial risks for the wide range of investors - backed by the liquidity of quoted stock, so you can trade in and out at the current market price.

This financial model is very different from the "closed" investor group of most football clubs - it isn't a single "billionaire owner" strategy and the investors don't need to be fans of the club. Cold, hard, financial returns is all that is required to make the strategy worth pursuing - including the provision of funds to invest whenever the needs arise.

I agree with you, we can forget the two apps ALK has acquired - they aren't essential in any way to ALK acquiring Burnley (if they do acquire Burnley). They may add a little to ALK's wider strategy if they are seeking to broaden their investor appeal by having a number of "soccer related" investments - but, they aren't essential to the aim of "taking a ride" with a Premier League football club and gaining from the increasing value of all Premier League football clubs. I consider it possible that ALK will also look at acquiring clubs in other European leagues - not with a view to creating a hierarchy of opportunities and links between "senior clubs" and "junior/development clubs" - more as an "each way" bet on the growing success of one country's top division versus the top division in one or more other European countries. (Maybe "each way" isn't quite the right term here - I'm sure you can work out what I mean).

As I've said, ALK won't have an "asset stripping" strategy. If they were a closed group of investors this could be the case - but, if they are raising their funds as a SPAC, then "asset stripping" will not work for their intended investors.

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:57 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:40 pm
I've just seen the part of the press conference referred to by the OP. Nothing in it, he's just being Dyche playing with a reporter.

One of my favourites was after the Watford away game in 2016/17. We'd had Jeff Hendrick sent off after about six minutes, went 1-0 down and then conceded a second right on half time although we played well second half and only lost 2-1.

After the game:

Reporter: Did you think the sending off and the goal right on half time affected the result?
Dyche: No.

Absolutely dead pan while clearly wanting to laugh. The reporter didn't know what to ask next.
A typical Dyche response to "was the club interested in Wilson?" "The club is interested in thousands of players - it always has been - it always will be." (My paraphrasing of what was said, rather than the journo's and SD's exact words).

There was nothing in the presser that should make us think that Sean Dyche is thinking about anything other than how can we get 3 points on Saturday night.

UTC

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Re: Dyche Today

Post by ewanrob » Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:06 pm

I think as Nixon alluded to, he knows how to play the audience very well....thought it was great viewing and Sean at his very best.... you sense the journos are very nervous asking the questions.

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