Nixon’s Sunday update

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Long Time Lurker
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Re: Nixon’s Sunday update

Post by Long Time Lurker » Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:45 pm

Stu wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:26 pm
Nixon is right about Burnley can’t agree between themselves it seems Rigg wants him and Dyche doesn’t simple as that .
If that is true then we don't need to discuss this matter anymore.

If Dyche doesn't want him then we don't buy him, because Dyche decides what we need in terms of moving us forward on the playing front.

When Rigg first arrived he made a public commitment to not forcing any new players on the Gaffer and he should be expected to honour that promise, not cause strife and division at the club by doing differently.

“It is really important that everyone understands that Sean has the first say (on recruitment), in other words, what do we want? Where do we want it and when?

“He (Dyche) has the last choice and the last say so he says, ‘that is the player that I want.’

“There will never be a player that will be brought into the club, certainly while I am here as technical director, that will be forced on Sean.

“My job is not to pick the players, my job is to give Sean enough options where he says that is the player I want to take us on to the next level.”

Dyche tells Rigg what he thinks we need, Rigg puts together a target list that satisfies those needs and is realistic from our financial stand point, Dyche picks a player from that list if one is suitable and Garlick signs the cheque if it is within our means to buy them.

However, when we factor in that Dyche wanted some or all of the players that left us before the season started ( and we didn't give them new contracts ) it seems like Dyche definitely doesn't have the last say at the moment. In fact it seems like he doesn't have much of a say at all, which would explain why he feels out of the loop.

The upshot is that a bad list of target options will result in a bad transfer window and problems between the three of them.

If Dyche wants a player and we can afford them we sign them ( even though we might think differently about a given player ).

If Rigg wants a player and Dyche doesn't want him then we don't sign that player, simple.
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jtv
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Re: Nixon’s Sunday update

Post by jtv » Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:02 pm

ClaretMov wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:42 pm
Why doesn't Dyche want him
He has been influenced by LTL :)
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Re: Nixon’s Sunday update

Post by Andreshotboots » Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:05 pm

Apart from Hendrick who else did we need to keep? The others were awful and soaked up huge amount of wages between them for very little. My biggest worry, and is happening is Dyche is building a squad of journeyman pros who he can rely on, when Dyche clears off for another job we will be left with major squad issues for another manager and zero cash to rectify them.
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Re: Nixon’s Sunday update

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:08 pm

Andreshotboots wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:05 pm
Apart from Hendrick who else did we need to keep? The others were awful and soaked up huge amount of wages between them for very little. My biggest worry, and is happening is Dyche is building a squad of journeyman pros who he can rely on, when Dyche clears off for another job we will be left with major squad issues for another manager and zero cash to rectify them.
Well we signed Brownhill who is 24. Can Benson come in and improve us? He's 20.

We only need 1-2 players coming in per year who is in his low 20s.

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Re: Nixon’s Sunday update

Post by Claret Till I Die » Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:14 pm

Long Time Lurker wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:54 pm
6m plus 2m in add-ons that relate to goals scored and us staying up. Nothing to do with him playing for Wales. On top of that a 20% sell on fee and a buy back option for £20m+. If they really think he is worth 20-30m Liverpool can't lose with an offer like that. That offer would have to take into account what his expected wages are, because ongoing wages and bonuses add a lot to the cost of a player.

He would be something of a luxury, because I still can't see how he would be an effective fit for our framework. To take advantage of his set piece ability he would have to be on the pitch and playing, which could be problematic considering he doesn't really suit the way we play.

Soccer isn't like American Football were you can just bring on a dedicated point kicker.

However, he does have some interesting qualities and we do need more bodies at the moment. If we lose Mc Neil or Brady in the future then he might make a reasonable replacement, providing that we can hammer the desire to score at all costs out of him, glue him to the side line and develop his team based creative side. He might also make for a good replacement central attacker if we move Vydra on.

Although, I suspect that signing him would pretty much guarantee Brady leaving on a free transfer, which would cost us money if he had any intention of signing a new contract.

I'm still puzzled why Wilson made it onto our target list, given that he isn't a Dyche type of player and he doesn't really suit us. 10m plus add-ons is still too high a price for me though, especially with nobody else apparently interested before the looming deadline.

I would see him as an emergency back-up option for the coming season and a player for the future, with the possible option to shake things up a bit.

Letting the option pass would still leave us with the opportunity to do business with EPL teams. However, a lot of the good bargains have already gone. We should have really been testing the waters before now to get an idea of what might still be available and what any players we might be interested in would cost if their clubs are open to selling.

Swansea are struggling financially.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/foo ... k-17708427

https://www.swanseacity.com/news/swanse ... t-accounts

and those articles came from shortly before the Corona hit.

I like the look of Connor Roberts and Joe Rodon is a very good player ( however, the fact that he has missed 50% of his games for Swansea due to injury in the last 2 years is a concern ). Either one could be a good pick up for us, but that would depend heavily on the price. Swansea let Clucas and Fabianski go for fair returns, but they asked for and got two very generous transfer fees for McBurnie and James.

I would put a figure of around 4m on Roberts ( less would be better ) and maybe as high as 6m for Rodon, but I'm thrifty and value conscious. The biggest barrier to signing either of them would be Steve Cooper, who has publicly declared in not uncertain terms that he doesn't want to lose any players and they need more.

However, Trevor Birch is aware of the need to sell and he calls the final shots, even though the fans would probably mutiny at the thought of losing those two players for a combined total of less than 10m.

The fact that they are already under represented in central defence is another stumbling block ( but we could send Dunne their way on loan ). On the upside they need to bring in money and the sale of Celina for 3m probably didn't do enough on that front.

I'm also very surprised that Preston haven't sold anyone yet, given that they were running at a constant loss before Corona hit and they have just bought Wigans training ground ( will that affect their FFP obligations ? ). Ben Davies would be the player I would like us to look at from them.

Wallace from Millwall, BOS and Manning from QPR would be others. Having missed out on Eliasson at 2m I can't really understand why we aren't looking at manning given that he would command a similar fee or maybe less. He has been frozen out at QPR and a move looks highly likely.
Point understood FF.

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Re: Nixon’s Sunday update

Post by Hedontplayforyou » Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:23 pm

From what I read in to it, it’s Garlick whole doesn’t want to sign the cheques, whilst other board members would like him to do just that? Rather than it being Dyche doesn’t want player X but Rigg does.

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Re: Nixon’s Sunday update

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:26 pm

Hedontplayforyou wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:23 pm
From what I read in to it, it’s Garlick whole doesn’t want to sign the cheques, whilst other board members would like him to do just that? Rather than it being Dyche doesn’t want player X but Rigg does.
But you can understand why he doesn't want to sign them. It's not like we have 200 million in the bank. We appear to be making a small amount each season and to come in with a big fee, we need to bank on the sale of other players.

This is why it must be so easy for clubs like Leeds. They can spend £100 million without blinking - we can't and we have to do it the 'proper way'.

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Re: Nixon’s Sunday update

Post by taio » Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:33 pm

Long Time Lurker wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:54 pm
6m plus 2m in add-ons that relate to goals scored and us staying up. Nothing to do with him playing for Wales. On top of that a 20% sell on fee and a buy back option for £20m+. If they really think he is worth 20-30m Liverpool can't lose with an offer like that. That offer would have to take into account what his expected wages are, because ongoing wages and bonuses add a lot to the cost of a player.

He would be something of a luxury, because I still can't see how he would be an effective fit for our framework. To take advantage of his set piece ability he would have to be on the pitch and playing, which could be problematic considering he doesn't really suit the way we play.

Soccer isn't like American Football were you can just bring on a dedicated point kicker.

However, he does have some interesting qualities and we do need more bodies at the moment. If we lose Mc Neil or Brady in the future then he might make a reasonable replacement, providing that we can hammer the desire to score at all costs out of him, glue him to the side line and develop his team based creative side. He might also make for a good replacement central attacker if we move Vydra on.

Although, I suspect that signing him would pretty much guarantee Brady leaving on a free transfer, which would cost us money if he had any intention of signing a new contract.

I'm still puzzled why Wilson made it onto our target list, given that he isn't a Dyche type of player and he doesn't really suit us. 10m plus add-ons is still too high a price for me though, especially with nobody else apparently interested before the looming deadline.

I would see him as an emergency back-up option for the coming season and a player for the future, with the possible option to shake things up a bit.

Letting the option pass would still leave us with the opportunity to do business with EPL teams. However, a lot of the good bargains have already gone. We should have really been testing the waters before now to get an idea of what might still be available and what any players we might be interested in would cost if their clubs are open to selling.

Swansea are struggling financially.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/foo ... k-17708427

https://www.swanseacity.com/news/swanse ... t-accounts

and those articles came from shortly before the Corona hit.

I like the look of Connor Roberts and Joe Rodon is a very good player ( however, the fact that he has missed 50% of his games for Swansea due to injury in the last 2 years is a concern ). Either one could be a good pick up for us, but that would depend heavily on the price. Swansea let Clucas and Fabianski go for fair returns, but they asked for and got two very generous transfer fees for McBurnie and James.

I would put a figure of around 4m on Roberts ( less would be better ) and maybe as high as 6m for Rodon, but I'm thrifty and value conscious. The biggest barrier to signing either of them would be Steve Cooper, who has publicly declared in not uncertain terms that he doesn't want to lose any players and they need more.

However, Trevor Birch is aware of the need to sell and he calls the final shots, even though the fans would probably mutiny at the thought of losing those two players for a combined total of less than 10m.

The fact that they are already under represented in central defence is another stumbling block ( but we could send Dunne their way on loan ). On the upside they need to bring in money and the sale of Celina for 3m probably didn't do enough on that front.

I'm also very surprised that Preston haven't sold anyone yet, given that they were running at a constant loss before Corona hit and they have just bought Wigans training ground ( will that affect their FFP obligations ? ). Ben Davies would be the player I would like us to look at from them.

Wallace from Millwall, BOS and Manning from QPR would be others. Having missed out on Eliasson at 2m I can't really understand why we aren't looking at manning given that he would command a similar fee or maybe less. He has been frozen out at QPR and a move looks highly likely.
We will need a good season and plenty of appearances from JBG by the looks of it.

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Re: Nixon’s Sunday update

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:53 am

FactualFrank wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:26 pm
But you can understand why he doesn't want to sign them. It's not like we have 200 million in the bank. We appear to be making a small amount each season and to come in with a big fee, we need to bank on the sale of other players.

This is why it must be so easy for clubs like Leeds. They can spend £100 million without blinking - we can't and we have to do it the 'proper way'.
and that's why this potential ALK moneyball(ish) idea makes sense for a club like us. Unless we suddenly get a mega rich billionaire to spend whatever we want (not gonna happen) then we have to buy cheap and develop. We can't buy the finished article and we can't compete in wages with the likes of Villa for players like Matty Cash.

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