Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:22 pm

Spijed wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:41 am
When asked if were ever serious about signing someone:

Alan Nixon
@reluctantnicko
·
19h
Made a few low bids for people
Nixon keeping it nice & vague. Clearly hasn’t a clue so is just pretending we’ve put some bids in on the off chance we make a signing. If he knew, he’d name the players and take great joy in revealing our embarrassing offers.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:52 pm

Project big picture makes it even riskier us signing anyone on a decent contract.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by randomclaret2 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:58 pm

Granny WeatherWax wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:52 pm
Project big picture makes it even riskier us signing anyone on a decent contract.
In what way ?

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:01 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:58 pm
In what way ?
Much of what they’ve proposed will happen. Parachute payments being the big one that would affect a club like ours. What would we do with an £80m wage bill and no parachute payments?

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:04 pm

Granny WeatherWax wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:01 pm
Much of what they’ve proposed will happen. Parachute payments being the big one that would affect a club like ours. What would we do with an £80m wage bill and no parachute payments?
Presumably that’s offset by the fact that 25% of PL budget will go to EFL. The whole point of Big Picture is to reduce the disparity between PL & EFL revenues.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:08 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:04 pm
Presumably that’s offset by the fact that 25% of PL budget will go to EFL. The whole point of Big Picture is to reduce the disparity between PL & EFL revenues.
Suspect 25% of tv deal wouldn’t be anywhere near the parachute payments.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Duffer_ » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:14 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:04 pm
Presumably that’s offset by the fact that 25% of PL budget will go to EFL. The whole point of Big Picture is to reduce the disparity between PL & EFL revenues.
The whole point? Well, only if you ignore the bit about the greedy clubs wanting total control of the rules.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:42 pm

Duffer_ wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:14 pm
The whole point? Well, only if you ignore the bit about the greedy clubs wanting total control of the rules.
Sorry, I meant that is what they are pretending the whole point is. Would be fairly brazen of them not to even deliver on that (although wouldn’t put it past the Scousers).
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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by randomclaret2 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:45 pm

Granny WeatherWax wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:01 pm
Much of what they’ve proposed will happen. Parachute payments being the big one that would affect a club like ours. What would we do with an £80m wage bill and no parachute payments?
Im not sure how you conclude from today's events that Much of what they've proposed will happen
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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:56 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:45 pm
Im not sure how you conclude from today's events that Much of what they've proposed will happen
Yep, quite funny how quickly this has been kicked in to touch. Parry left looking a right idiot. :lol:

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by claretblue » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:09 pm

back to the subject:
Premier League clubs can still sign players from English Football League sides until 17:00 BST on Friday

:D

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:14 pm

claretblue wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:09 pm
back to the subject:
Premier League clubs can still sign players from English Football League sides until 17:00 BST on Friday

:D
Could someone tell Mike???

Where does he live out of interest? We could fly a plane over: “EFL window still open till 16/10 5pm”.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by randomclaret2 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:16 pm

Im not sure the Plane banner company are taking bookings from Burnley fans at the moment...
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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:22 pm

JohnDearyMe wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:54 am
You'd imagine there will be quite a few Championship clubs who are absolutely desperate for cash and who will be in a far far worse financial situation than us. You'd hope the club would be exploring these opportunities
Has the EFL’s TV deal also been reduced by Sky for no fans?

If MG’s tactic was to wait until the Championship teams get desperate in the final hours of the window, you can understand the method in the madness. You’d expect some must be getting desperate and quite worried given Covid seems to be getting worse, not better. Not Brentford, by the sounds of things though.

Leaving it very late though 44 hours and counting...!
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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:22 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:16 pm
Im not sure the Plane banner company are taking bookings from Burnley fans at the moment...
:lol: :lol:

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Firthy » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:34 pm

claretblue wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:09 pm
back to the subject:
Premier League clubs can still sign players from English Football League sides until 17:00 BST on Friday

:D
Sounds like could have, would have, should have

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Spijed » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:36 pm

I see Palace have re-signed Nathaniel Clyne. Looked a good player a few seasons ago, but seems past it now.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Jakubs Tash » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:50 pm

Interesting that in John Percy’s article about West Brom’s deal to sign Grant from Huddersfield he says the fee/deal is to be paid over the length of the players contract - 6 years - in these ‘COVID times’.

Huddersfield clearly need some money and West Brom are being careful about spending it and spreading it out quite significantly. There are deals to be done.....it’s just about being savvy enough to make them happen.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by ecc » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:52 pm

There's no desire to sign a player. Full stop.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Spijed » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:02 pm

Jakubs Tash wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:50 pm
Interesting that in John Percy’s article about West Brom’s deal to sign Grant from Huddersfield he says the fee/deal is to be paid over the length of the players contract - 6 years - in these ‘COVID times’.
The vast majority of signings are paid over the length of a players contract and always have been. That's nothing new.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by boatshed bill » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:04 pm

Spijed wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:02 pm
The vast majority of signings are paid over the length of a players contract and always have been. That's nothing new.
Is this right, daft if it is.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Right_winger » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:08 pm

I don’t know which is more pathetic, us not attempting to strengthen our squad or the happy clappers tying to justify their opinions.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by warksclaret » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:32 pm

I have never sensed so much frustration from posters as now. Does anyone really know whats going on in our club? We have a proposed take-over, but nothing has been said by the club. We understand there is unrest between the manager and chairman. We are in desperate need of strengthening one of the weakest and ageing squads in PL history and we have a net spend of MINUS £1m in our most critical window yet.

We hear SD wants reinforcements but has opposed a number of targets. Is the club preparing for relegation as they have shown no sign of providing the right squad depth and quality to safeguard PL status. We are apparently skint yet we pay our biggest costing signing for 9 months when he refused to play. This is not the behavior of this "wonderful community club with a one club mentality" that the PR machinery in the club likes to promote.

And then today our Chairman and CEO come out of hiding for the past 3 plus months, to back the PL statement made today, when if BFC continues to operate as it is, whatever the PL boys decide, will be irrelevant to our club. I think the fans who supported our club well before the days of TV money , deserve a little bit more. If many of us feel like this then I am sure some of the team will have similar concerns about the future and direction of our club
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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Rileybobs » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:37 pm

warksclaret wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:32 pm
I have never sensed so much frustration from posters as now. Does anyone really know whats going on in our club? We have a proposed take-over, but nothing has been said by the club. We understand there is unrest between the manager and chairman. We are in desperate need of strengthening one of the weakest and ageing squads in PL history and we have a net spend of MINUS £1m in our most critical window yet.

We hear SD wants reinforcements but has opposed a number of targets. Is the club preparing for relegation as they have shown no sign of providing the right squad depth and quality to safeguard PL status. We are apparently skint yet we pay our biggest costing signing for 9 months when he refused to play. This is not the behavior of this "wonderful community club with a one club mentality" that the PR machinery in the club likes to promote.

And then today our Chairman and CEO come out of hiding for the past 3 plus months, to back the PL statement made today, when if BFC continues to operate as it is, whatever the PL boys decide, will be irrelevant to our club. I think the fans who supported our club well before the days of TV money , deserve a little bit more. If many of us feel like this then I am sure some of the team will have similar concerns about the future and direction of our club
Maybe, if the club is as close to a takeover as suggested, and a NDA is in place, as it will be - then the chairman is waiting for the right time to make a statement about our financial position.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by boatshed bill » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:38 pm

warksclaret wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:32 pm
I have never sensed so much frustration from posters as now. Does anyone really know whats going on in our club? We have a proposed take-over, but nothing has been said by the club. We understand there is unrest between the manager and chairman. We are in desperate need of strengthening one of the weakest and ageing squads in PL history and we have a net spend of MINUS £1m in our most critical window yet.

We hear SD wants reinforcements but has opposed a number of targets. Is the club preparing for relegation as they have shown no sign of providing the right squad depth and quality to safeguard PL status. We are apparently skint yet we pay our biggest costing signing for 9 months when he refused to play. This is not the behavior of this "wonderful community club with a one club mentality" that the PR machinery in the club likes to promote.

And then today our Chairman and CEO come out of hiding for the past 3 plus months, to back the PL statement made today, when if BFC continues to operate as it is, whatever the PL boys decide, will be irrelevant to our club. I think the fans who supported our club well before the days of TV money , deserve a little bit more. If many of us feel like this then I am sure some of the team will have similar concerns about the future and direction of our club
Sorry, what are they backing, I've not heard?

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Royboyclaret » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:43 pm

ecc wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:52 pm
There's no desire to sign a player. Full stop.
That's very unfair.

When posts like this appear from very reasonable posters like ecc and randomclaret the frustration is palpable, but I don't see any shortage of desire. Remember the Board, first and foremost, are Burnley fans like the rest of us and want the best for us on the pitch, but it's tough right now and not likely to improve anytime soon.

No shortage of desire.......but definitely a shortage.
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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:13 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:43 pm
That's very unfair.

When posts like this appear from very reasonable posters like ecc and randomclaret the frustration is palpable, but I don't see any shortage of desire. Remember the Board, first and foremost, are Burnley fans like the rest of us and want the best for us on the pitch, but it's tough right now and not likely to improve anytime soon.

No shortage of desire.......but definitely a shortage.
The interviews given by Dyche certainly point to a lack of desire from our silent board of directors.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Royboyclaret » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:27 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:13 pm
The interviews given by Dyche certainly point to a lack of desire from our silent board of directors.
But what exactly do you want them to say?

Look, without putting too fine a point on it, we're in trouble.......We've been pushing the financial boundaries for some time merely to compete in this League. The last set of accounts showed a Wage bill of £87m, a figure some ten times that of when we were first promoted ten years ago. In the same year with a record Income of £138m we still made an Operating Loss of £2m before the profit on sale of Sam of £7m converted that into a Net Profit of £5m.

Fast forward to last season and a Wage bill approaching £95m and suddenly, out of the blue, we're hammered with overseas broadcast rebates as a result of the pandemic. Quickly matters move out of control and we're staring at a significant Net Loss to July'20.

Now Mike Garlick has to make decisions, bearing in mind the broadcast rebates for this current season will be substantially greater than last season. He now sees the full financial picture and makes the reasonable enough call to hold back on any potential incoming transfer...........That's the present reality and surely, in his position, we would all make a similar call.
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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by jedi_master » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:33 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:27 pm
But what exactly do you want them to say?

Look, without putting too fine a point on it, we're in trouble.......We've been pushing the financial boundaries for some time merely to compete in this League. The last set of accounts showed a Wage bill of £87m, a figure some ten times that of when we were first promoted ten years ago. In the same year with a record Income of £138m we still made an Operating Loss of £2m before the profit on sale of Sam of £7m converted that into a Net Profit of £5m.

Fast forward to last season and a Wage bill approaching £95m and suddenly, out of the blue, we're hammered with overseas broadcast rebates as a result of the pandemic. Quickly matters move out of control and we're staring at a significant Net Loss to July'20.

Now Mike Garlick has to make decisions, bearing in mind the broadcast rebates for this current season will be substantially greater than last season. He now sees the full financial picture and makes the reasonable enough call to hold back on any potential incoming transfer...........That's the present reality and surely, in his position, we would all make a similar call.
All makes perfect sense Royboy, but does beg the question of why we didn’t flog Tarkowski for £35m, sign Craig Dawson for £4m and end up still posting a profit. We’re now left with a player who’s (most likely) naffed off and is almost certainly being sold next summer for a fee of less than half at most of what we were being offered. This activity alone (good player that he is) seems mindless in the context of what you have put above.

In my opinion, anyway...

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Royboyclaret » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:44 pm

jedi_master wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:33 pm
All makes perfect sense Royboy, but does beg the question of why we didn’t flog Tarkowski for £35m, sign Craig Dawson for £4m and end up still posting a profit. We’re now left with a player who’s (most likely) naffed off and is almost certainly being sold next summer for a fee of less than half at most of what we were being offered. This activity alone (good player that he is) seems mindless in the context of what you have put above.

In my opinion, anyway...
jedi.....Unfortunately that's a slightly different story. We all need to patient on this one and then perhaps we'll understand why James is still a Burnley player.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:49 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:27 pm
But what exactly do you want them to say?

Look, without putting too fine a point on it, we're in trouble.......We've been pushing the financial boundaries for some time merely to compete in this League. The last set of accounts showed a Wage bill of £87m, a figure some ten times that of when we were first promoted ten years ago. In the same year with a record Income of £138m we still made an Operating Loss of £2m before the profit on sale of Sam of £7m converted that into a Net Profit of £5m.

Fast forward to last season and a Wage bill approaching £95m and suddenly, out of the blue, we're hammered with overseas broadcast rebates as a result of the pandemic. Quickly matters move out of control and we're staring at a significant Net Loss to July'20.

Now Mike Garlick has to make decisions, bearing in mind the broadcast rebates for this current season will be substantially greater than last season. He now sees the full financial picture and makes the reasonable enough call to hold back on any potential incoming transfer...........That's the present reality and surely, in his position, we would all make a similar call.
Yet, despite what must be similar challenges, other clubs have found a way to strengthen. It’s the same for everyone yet only we can’t find any money?!?

And if things are so bad, why does Sean keep saying we are very well placed financially? Seems odd that, if we’re in trouble?

Let’s be honest, this isn’t a situation that has just occurred since Covid either. We’d had a couple of poor windows prior.

This isn’t going to suddenly get any easier, so if we aren’t able to compete at this level in terms of recruitment I would like Garlick and the board to be honest with us all and wave the white flag.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by THEWELLERNUT70 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:52 pm

The time to repair the roof was when the sun was shining, we didn't, we stuck Tesco carrier bags in the holes and hoped for the best.

The current situation, granted isn't all of our own making, but bloody hell the last few years transfer and player retention dealings really have left a lot to be desired and it very much is a combination of the two

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by TVC15 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:22 am

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:49 pm
Yet, despite what must be similar challenges, other clubs have found a way to strengthen. It’s the same for everyone yet only we can’t find any money?!?

And if things are so bad, why does Sean keep saying we are very well placed financially? Seems odd that, if we’re in trouble?

Let’s be honest, this isn’t a situation that has just occurred since Covid either. We’d had a couple of poor windows prior.

This isn’t going to suddenly get any easier, so if we aren’t able to compete at this level in terms of recruitment I would like Garlick and the board to be honest with us all and wave the white flag.
“It’s the same for everyone” ?

Really ? You think we all have the same financial resources to call on ? That is such a stupid thing to say I don’t know where to start !

You must have asked that question about what Sean Dyche said fifty times in the last few weeks. Why do you keep on asking why he said it ? How the hell are we supposed to know ?
Your assumption that because he said it he must be correct is again non sensical. Lots of posters who understand far more about our financial position have tried to explain this to you and others but you just ignore it or don’t understand it (probably both)

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:44 am

As above this is a culmination of several poor transfer windows plus the constant negativity (or silence) doesn’t help anyone.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Jakubs Tash » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:11 am

Spijed wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:02 pm
The vast majority of signings are paid over the length of a players contract and always have been. That's nothing new.
Yeah, I’m aware that’s usually the case. What isn’t usual is a 6 year contract and spreading the fee over that period as opposed to 3 or 4 years. That was my point.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:28 am

TVC15 wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:22 am
“It’s the same for everyone” ?

Really ? You think we all have the same financial resources to call on ? That is such a stupid thing to say I don’t know where to start !

You must have asked that question about what Sean Dyche said fifty times in the last few weeks. Why do you keep on asking why he said it ? How the hell are we supposed to know ?
Your assumption that because he said it he must be correct is again non sensical. Lots of posters who understand far more about our financial position have tried to explain this to you and others but you just ignore it or don’t understand it (probably both)
No, I am saying Covid is the same for everyone. It’s affected all clubs. Many, given our relatively small income from gate receipts, will be disproportionately impacted by Covid will lose more revenue than us. In that respect it’s a great leveller because ground capacity/fan base is no longer so relevant.

It’s also fair to say we are not the lowest in the PL in terms of revenue, and also, that Championship clubs should have been impacted markedly worse (so picking up players from our traditional markets should’ve been easier).

Yet in all cases, others have found ways to sign players, be that loans with options or preferable payment terms. We haven’t (yet, but don’t look to be).

I also find that posters are keen to point out what we have lost without the full picture, such as: the savings in Matchday expenses (stewarding, policing, catering, etc), an ~£8m lower wage bill next year, potential savings on player incentive payments (depending how they’re structured), benefit of VAT deferrals (short-term cash benefit), replacement of income via PPV. Truth is, none on here, myself included, can project all those variables and know the full picture, but you’d expect our manager should be in the know...

I ask the Dyche question because it’s a relevant counter argument to the “we’re broke” perspective. It’s more to prompt discussion over why our manager says we’re fine but fans think we’re not? Given our Chairman/Board/CEO are silent on the matter, it’s the only official club stance we have to go off, so surely warrants a discussion?

I’m not saying Dyche is right. Maybe he’s not really close enough to that side? Or maybe his agenda is to shame the Chairman in to spending money he doesn’t want to/can’t? But I do think it’s more likely that cash is available to spend, particularly if structured over longer payment plans as all seem to be, but the Chairman’s risk appetite is much much lower than Sean’s for committing to that spending.

I always think “where there’s a will there’s a way”, so my assumption is there’s no will. If that’s the case, fine, tell us. Let Sean move on and communicate the strategy... is it to cling on as long as we can then establish ourselves in the Championship?

I ask because our recruitment has been limited for three windows now, even before Covid. We have an ageing squad and 11 or so OOC at end of season. If we can’t afford to buy players this summer, what will change next (assuming we stay up)? Championship players are not going to get any cheaper!! I’d like to know where our Chairman sees our level and feels comfortable - if that’s in the Championship developing players for Prem clubs, that’s fine, I’d just rather know.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:37 am

Jakubs Tash wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:11 am
Yeah, I’m aware that’s usually the case. What isn’t usual is a 6 year contract and spreading the fee over that period as opposed to 3 or 4 years. That was my point.
But, again, perhaps a neat way of navigating the current situation.

Read yesterday that WHU had agreed to a guaranteed £8m payment if Benrahma was sold on, regardless of their fee. Again, quite neat as you’d expect to recover that sort of fee at re-sale even if he doesn’t shine in the PL.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by ClaretAndJew » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:42 am

Dyche has hinted that there will be no signings in the domestic window.

Goodnight, Vienna.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Sutton-Claret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:51 am

I blame Ben Gibson :evil:

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Spijed » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:53 am

NewClaret wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:28 am
No, I am saying Covid is the same for everyone. It’s affected all clubs. Many, given our relatively small income from gate receipts, will be disproportionately impacted by Covid will lose more revenue than us. In that respect it’s a great leveller because ground capacity/fan base is no longer so relevant.

It’s also fair to say we are not the lowest in the PL in terms of revenue, and also, that Championship clubs should have been impacted markedly worse (so picking up players from our traditional markets should’ve been easier).

Yet in all cases, others have found ways to sign players, be that loans with options or preferable payment terms. We haven’t (yet, but don’t look to be).

I also find that posters are keen to point out what we have lost without the full picture, such as: the savings in Matchday expenses (stewarding, policing, catering, etc), an ~£8m lower wage bill next year, potential savings on player incentive payments (depending how they’re structured), benefit of VAT deferrals (short-term cash benefit), replacement of income via PPV. Truth is, none on here, myself included, can project all those variables and know the full picture, but you’d expect our manager should be in the know...

I ask the Dyche question because it’s a relevant counter argument to the “we’re broke” perspective. It’s more to prompt discussion over why our manager says we’re fine but fans think we’re not? Given our Chairman/Board/CEO are silent on the matter, it’s the only official club stance we have to go off, so surely warrants a discussion?

I’m not saying Dyche is right. Maybe he’s not really close enough to that side? Or maybe his agenda is to shame the Chairman in to spending money he doesn’t want to/can’t? But I do think it’s more likely that cash is available to spend, particularly if structured over longer payment plans as all seem to be, but the Chairman’s risk appetite is much much lower than Sean’s for committing to that spending.

I always think “where there’s a will there’s a way”, so my assumption is there’s no will. If that’s the case, fine, tell us. Let Sean move on and communicate the strategy... is it to cling on as long as we can then establish ourselves in the Championship?

I ask because our recruitment has been limited for three windows now, even before Covid. We have an ageing squad and 11 or so OOC at end of season. If we can’t afford to buy players this summer, what will change next (assuming we stay up)? Championship players are not going to get any cheaper!! I’d like to know where our Chairman sees our level and feels comfortable - if that’s in the Championship developing players for Prem clubs, that’s fine, I’d just rather know.
The point is that our owners are not wealthy in football terms, unlike virtually ever club in the PL and many in the Championship. For example, I suspect the annual wage bill of just one of the big six clubs is more than the combined wealth of all of our directors and chairman put together.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Spijed » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:56 am

Chris Boden
@bodenknights
“Not likely” Burnley will sign anyone before the end of the domestic window, admits SD

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Goobs » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:59 am

It's easy to say why didn't we flog Tarks to West Ham but SD has always said we try to do right by our players. Is it not possible that the same Tarks who wanted to move away from London 3 or 4 years ago doesn't want to move back down there now and had no interest in joining WHam and therefore we were just using them to try and get another bid from a more Northern Club (possibly Leicester)?

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Socrates » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:04 am

I’ve still not seen anything which suggests how much of a financial impact Covid has had an us in real terms. It strikes me we are assuming an absolute worst case scenario and preparing for that, which seems - at best - to be ultra conservative.

This situation could not have been foreseen. 100% not. However, that something unexpected could happen was foreseeable and we are woefully ill prepared on the football front to deal with that. For successive transfer windows we have rolled the dice hoping everything would go ok, and in large parts it did. But now it hasn’t ..... and we will struggle as a result.

Our player trading has been bare minimum levels for years now. With outstanding football management and a lot of luck we have got by - thrived even. Well now, that luck has run out. And it looks to me like we might be losing the outstanding football management soon too. I don’t know where that leaves us.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by warksclaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:17 am

NewClaret wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:28 am
No, I am saying Covid is the same for everyone. It’s affected all clubs. Many, given our relatively small income from gate receipts, will be disproportionately impacted by Covid will lose more revenue than us. In that respect it’s a great leveller because ground capacity/fan base is no longer so relevant.

It’s also fair to say we are not the lowest in the PL in terms of revenue, and also, that Championship clubs should have been impacted markedly worse (so picking up players from our traditional markets should’ve been easier).

Yet in all cases, others have found ways to sign players, be that loans with options or preferable payment terms. We haven’t (yet, but don’t look to be).

I also find that posters are keen to point out what we have lost without the full picture, such as: the savings in Matchday expenses (stewarding, policing, catering, etc), an ~£8m lower wage bill next year, potential savings on player incentive payments (depending how they’re structured), benefit of VAT deferrals (short-term cash benefit), replacement of income via PPV. Truth is, none on here, myself included, can project all those variables and know the full picture, but you’d expect our manager should be in the know...

I ask the Dyche question because it’s a relevant counter argument to the “we’re broke” perspective. It’s more to prompt discussion over why our manager says we’re fine but fans think we’re not? Given our Chairman/Board/CEO are silent on the matter, it’s the only official club stance we have to go off, so surely warrants a discussion?

I’m not saying Dyche is right. Maybe he’s not really close enough to that side? Or maybe his agenda is to shame the Chairman in to spending money he doesn’t want to/can’t? But I do think it’s more likely that cash is available to spend, particularly if structured over longer payment plans as all seem to be, but the Chairman’s risk appetite is much much lower than Sean’s for committing to that spending.

I always think “where there’s a will there’s a way”, so my assumption is there’s no will. If that’s the case, fine, tell us. Let Sean move on and communicate the strategy... is it to cling on as long as we can then establish ourselves in the Championship?

I ask because our recruitment has been limited for three windows now, even before Covid. We have an ageing squad and 11 or so OOC at end of season. If we can’t afford to buy players this summer, what will change next (assuming we stay up)? Championship players are not going to get any cheaper!! I’d like to know where our Chairman sees our level and feels comfortable - if that’s in the Championship developing players for Prem clubs, that’s fine, I’d just rather know.
With you NC on many of your points. Things will go from bad to worse. As you say if our recent window spend was a net MINUS £1M, how on earth are we going to move forward when the 11 OOC come due at the end of Summer. For all that people promote the "safe pair of hands" by Chairman and Board, and the need for prudence, when it comes to being smart and savvy on how we do our business within the current financial restrictions, we are clearly out of our depths. There has also been a distinct lack of planning and poor recruitment INTERNALLY with this white elephant of a Recruitment & Analytical team . What use will they prove if we are broke. Maybe their existence is a ploy to fool ALK that we know what we are doing. The new venture capital company looking at buying us are either desperate or will shortly pull out when they see us skirting with relegation. Would anyone on this board want to buy-us right now

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Dy1geo » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:52 am

Don’t want to dredge up old posts, but back at the start of this pandemic I made the point that we would let those at the end of their contracts go and that they might not get replaced. ClaretTony replied that as they were first team squad players that they would, but we are now seeing we are in a new reality of smaller squads and cover players not now of the same standard.

Swansea who up until a few years ago were splashing the cash are now reluctant to spend a million loan fee for Harry Wilson. This window has showed that clubs outside the elite and those with wealthy owners haven’t got any money and will have to adapt to a new future and if that means us trimming the wage bill further so be it.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:29 am

Spijed wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:53 am
The point is that our owners are not wealthy in football terms, unlike virtually ever club in the PL and many in the Championship. For example, I suspect the annual wage bill of just one of the big six clubs is more than the combined wealth of all of our directors and chairman put together.
Sean’s words today:

“ The financial implications are for some it seems and not for others.

When you look at some of the fees being paid for players there is still a lot going round.

Money has always been an issue here, it has always been something that is highly debated from myself and the chairman and the board.

Inevitably they make the decisions and I have made that clear for a long time now.

I have talked about stretch and how we can stretch the model, we are in very good shape financially I know that.

But the finance is still there to safeguard the club and that is one of the paramount concerns of the chairman and the board so I have always worked within the parameters and the guidelines of what is given to me and that is what I intend to do.”


If you take what Sean says at face value, this isn’t about billionaire owners. He says “we are in very good shape financially”. I think what this boils down to is that there is no appetite from the Chairman to spend the money and he’s taking a particularly cautious view.

I think that he’s being too cautious, risking our existence at this level. I see it that we’re a football club not a bank and, providing we’re not reckless, should take some risks. Others I suppose will be comforted by his prudence.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by FactualFrank » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:36 am

NewClaret wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:29 am
If you take what Sean says at face value, this isn’t about billionaire owners. He says “we are in very good shape financially”. I think what this boils down to is that there is no appetite from the Chairman to spend the money and he’s taking a particularly cautious view.

I think that he’s being too cautious, risking our existence at this level. I see it that we’re a football club not a bank and, providing we’re not reckless, should take some risks. Others I suppose will be comforted by his prudence.
But if you look at what Royboy says, who I think is taking publicly known figures, then those numbers simply don't add up to being in a good shape financially, if you look to the near future. £42 million in the bank can look great on paper, but that can vanish in the blink of an eye with TV rebates, wage increases etc.

It seems to me that if we sign 1-2 players, it would mean selling an asset at the end of the season such as Pope, Tarks, or McNeil, to help cover the loss.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by SGr » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:37 am

How much money have we spent on new players this window? Less than £2m?

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:55 am

FactualFrank wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:36 am
But if you look at what Royboy says, who I think is taking publicly known figures, then those numbers simply don't add up to being in a good shape financially, if you look to the near future. £42 million in the bank can look great on paper, but that can vanish in the blink of an eye with TV rebates, wage increases etc.

It seems to me that if we sign 1-2 players, it would mean selling an asset at the end of the season such as Pope, Tarks, or McNeil, to help cover the loss.
I am sure I am not the only one talking about our finances that is beginning to feel like those US Govt medical advisors at the Trump press conference, when Trump suggested injecting Disinfectant to fight off Covid

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by boyyanno » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:57 am

FactualFrank wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:36 am
But if you look at what Royboy says, who I think is taking publicly known figures, then those numbers simply don't add up to being in a good shape financially, if you look to the near future. £42 million in the bank can look great on paper, but that can vanish in the blink of an eye with TV rebates, wage increases etc.

It seems to me that if we sign 1-2 players, it would mean selling an asset at the end of the season such as Pope, Tarks, or McNeil, to help cover the loss.
I have no issue with us selling an asset if it means we can get the required personal in. I don't know any fan that does, it's always been our model in reality.

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