Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Wokingclaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:58 am

FactualFrank wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:36 am
But if you look at what Royboy says, who I think is taking publicly known figures, then those numbers simply don't add up to being in a good shape financially, if you look to the near future. £42 million in the bank can look great on paper, but that can vanish in the blink of an eye with TV rebates, wage increases etc.

It seems to me that if we sign 1-2 players, it would mean selling an asset at the end of the season such as Pope, Tarks, or McNeil, to help cover the loss.
But we''ve always sold, and would expect Tarky to be sold sooner or later if he is not resigning,

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by jojomk1 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:03 pm

Would think it very likely Tarks will be gone next summer if not in Jan

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by TVC15 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:03 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:29 am
Sean’s words today:

“ The financial implications are for some it seems and not for others.

When you look at some of the fees being paid for players there is still a lot going round.

Money has always been an issue here, it has always been something that is highly debated from myself and the chairman and the board.

Inevitably they make the decisions and I have made that clear for a long time now.

I have talked about stretch and how we can stretch the model, we are in very good shape financially I know that.

But the finance is still there to safeguard the club and that is one of the paramount concerns of the chairman and the board so I have always worked within the parameters and the guidelines of what is given to me and that is what I intend to do.”


If you take what Sean says at face value, this isn’t about billionaire owners. He says “we are in very good shape financially”. I think what this boils down to is that there is no appetite from the Chairman to spend the money and he’s taking a particularly cautious view.

I think that he’s being too cautious, risking our existence at this level. I see it that we’re a football club not a bank and, providing we’re not reckless, should take some risks. Others I suppose will be comforted by his prudence.
Of course it’s about billionaire owners - it’s pretty much everything to do with billionaire owners. Surely you can see and understand that they are able to cope with the impact of Covid more than Burnley and in a similar vein they can take far more risks than us.

You seem to want to take what SD is saying at face value that we are in very good shape financially. And then you say that the chairman does not want to spend the money.
There is absolutely no evidence that we are in good shape - we “were“ in good shape and it’s a good job as we would be in a much bigger mess now.

I’m not going to go through the figures again as whatever I or others post you seem to ignore it. Have a look at Royboy’s post above and which of the estimated numbers do you believe to be wrong and why ?
Do you seriously think that after what was pretty much a break even figure in June 2019 that we won’t be posting anything other than a significant loss in July 20 accounts ? Even with a reduced wage bill in this financial year I can’t see us posting a profit.
And then the club has to look beyond this at the next TV deals which most people in this industry say will be lower than the last one - and that’s before you consider the impact of what the big clubs are trying to do to clubs like Burnley.

Yet you seems to conclude that our board just don’t want to spend this mythical pile of cash you think we have ? Why would they not want to ? Do you seriously believe that any of the board want Dyche to leave or for the club to go down ? Why would they ?
Or do you not think for a minute that they have no other options left than to get new investment in ? Nobody on the board is prepared to subsidise the club with their own money but it’s a bit far fetched to think that they are all sat there looking at a “very healthy financial position” and making decisions not to spend any of it.
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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Ric_C » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:04 pm

Unfortunately, it is another business where the more money you have, the richer you get.

Our policy of small squads with the core being seasoned premier league professionals is one that has worked, but it is clearly only one that allows us to tread water at this level.

The big clubs can just offload any of their fat whenever they want. And players under 27 over the past 10 years have been vastly appreciating assets. Look at examples like Jordan Ibe and Solanke. Done the square root of bugger all, but they got offloaded for millions.

We can't afford to stockpile assets, BUT at least we could try cherry picking a few up and coming starlets from the championship. Look how much of a success Brownhill has been. If he continues his form to the end of the season, we're looking at a 20 million pound player.

I guess this is where the issue is. Both Garlick and SD seem too stubborn to give up their principles. If Garlick wants to go down the road of buying potential over Dyche's tried and trusted method, then I'm kind of on the side of the chairman, especially in these tough times financially.

I've a sneeky feeling we were hoping for some of the desperate championship clubs to give us a few bargains, but this tactic clearly has backfired.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by FactualFrank » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:06 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:55 am
I am sure I am not the only one talking about our finances that is beginning to feel like those US Govt medical advisors at the Trump press conference, when Trump suggested injecting Disinfectant to fight off Covid
I'm happy for you to correct me, Chester. I'm just going off the numbers that have been mentioned.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:20 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:06 pm
I'm happy for you to correct me, Chester. I'm just going off the numbers that have been mentioned.
not having a go Frank, if anything it was a support of you comments supporting Roy - there are a few posters who just refuse to accept what is shown clearly in our accounts, they are vey Trumpian in that they will only listen to what they want to hear and nothing else, TVC is having the same problem and to be honest I do not know where he gets the energy from

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Whatsupdoc » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:38 pm

When you read on Sky today that Brighton are balking at buying Andre Ayeu because he is on 90k a week at Swansea you can’t help but think what a mad world football has become

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by TVC15 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:42 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:20 pm
not having a go Frank, if anything it was a support of you comments supporting Roy - there are a few posters who just refuse to accept what is shown clearly in our accounts, they are vey Trumpian in that they will only listen to what they want to hear and nothing else, TVC is having the same problem and to be honest I do not know where he gets the energy from
Good point - I don’t know why I bother sometimes either !! I tend to read the board and post a lot less these days especially with so many political threads which are deliberately ruined and so many depressingly extreme views on here which are so far from my own.

But I do like to still come on here for information and with my background the financial stuff you post on the MMT thread I find genuinely interesting and informative.

I do not have an issue at all with some fans not being interested in the level of financial detail some of us are. But I do find it frustrating when people choose to ignore some of the facts and post so much stuff criticising the board or other people at the club with no real foundation other than they feel the need to blame someone for the position we find ourselves in.

I’m as unhappy as any other supporter at the position we find ourselves in....and in no way have I ever said that the chairman, board or manager has not made mistakes. I just seem to be able to rationalise this a lot more that firstly so much of what we are facing was unpredictable and outside of are control and secondly I have always said that relegation is inevitable for all but half a dozen teams that are ever lucky enough to spend time in the Premier League....even those with billionaire owners of which we don’t have which increases our odds of avoiding it even more.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:49 pm

Whatsupdoc wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:38 pm
When you read on Sky today that Brighton are balking at buying Andre Ayeu because he is on 90k a week at Swansea you can’t help but think what a mad world football has become
and they have been trying to sell him since they got relegated

People will say that he should have a relegation clause in his contract, and they would be right, he will have probably refused one during the negotiations, Swansea were fool enough to proceed, and are now paying the price. Fortunately we have people in place who would not have completed the deal on that point alone (never mind the £90k pw 2 TV cycles back - which is another thing some want us to do, offer more attractive wages). And for those who say if you get relegated just sell him, tell me when Swansea got relegated and how successful those attempts to sell him have been whilst he earns those wages.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Jakubclaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:51 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:06 pm
I'm happy for you to correct me, Chester. I'm just going off the numbers that have been mentioned.
In fairness, everybody's being placing faith towards the accounts in particular the numbers offered, what appears to be in grave doubt is the integrity of the financial information offered hence it being so highly debatable & contentious, bizzarely the maths just don't seem to be adding up at all, if the maths did add up people wouldn't even be questioning.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by randomclaret2 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:51 pm

I think the frustration thats around might dissipate somewhat if the club itself was more open about the true financial picture, rather than having to rely on nods and winks from individual posters on here . I greatly appreciate the knowledge and information from those who understand the finances much better than I do but wouldng it be helpful to have some sort of summary from Mr Garlick ? I dont think weve heard from him on the finances since March ?

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:02 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:03 pm
Of course it’s about billionaire owners - it’s pretty much everything to do with billionaire owners. Surely you can see and understand that they are able to cope with the impact of Covid more than Burnley and in a similar vein they can take far more risks than us.

You seem to want to take what SD is saying at face value that we are in very good shape financially. And then you say that the chairman does not want to spend the money.
There is absolutely no evidence that we are in good shape - we “were“ in good shape and it’s a good job as we would be in a much bigger mess now.

I’m not going to go through the figures again as whatever I or others post you seem to ignore it. Have a look at Royboy’s post above and which of the estimated numbers do you believe to be wrong and why ?
Do you seriously think that after what was pretty much a break even figure in June 2019 that we won’t be posting anything other than a significant loss in July 20 accounts ? Even with a reduced wage bill in this financial year I can’t see us posting a profit.
And then the club has to look beyond this at the next TV deals which most people in this industry say will be lower than the last one - and that’s before you consider the impact of what the big clubs are trying to do to clubs like Burnley.

Yet you seems to conclude that our board just don’t want to spend this mythical pile of cash you think we have ? Why would they not want to ? Do you seriously believe that any of the board want Dyche to leave or for the club to go down ? Why would they ?
Or do you not think for a minute that they have no other options left than to get new investment in ? Nobody on the board is prepared to subsidise the club with their own money but it’s a bit far fetched to think that they are all sat there looking at a “very healthy financial position” and making decisions not to spend any of it.
I don't argue that if Mike had a few billion in the bank, or a majorly booming business, he might feel very different about being able to take risks. I just don't buy that we are in financial ruin and could not be active if we chose to be. Sean's basically said as much today.

Sean's words were: "we are in very good shape financially I know that".

Not "were", are. I just can't reconcile that with what Royboy and others are saying? You must surely acknowledge that is perplexing and gives rise to question those who propose we are destitute?

I've not picked on Royboy's numbers because they are all historic (not Royboys fault - the nature of publicly available numbers). What I have said is that there are counter arguments of recent wage reductions, cost savings that will arise from covid, tax deferrals and potential replacement incomes. As optimistic as it may sound, PPV funding without the costs of hosting a match may even return a better margin! We don't know.

My point is that nobody on here knows the true picture because they are working off outdated numbers and there are so many variables that we can not possibly calculate or forecast, hence there is not much point debating old numbers beyond pointing my out that there are other factors to consider.

Profit and loss is also misleading and can be manipulated. I'd expect us and the majority other businesses on the planet to write a loss this year. That doesn't mean you're unviable or should stop investing. I'd say it's free cash flow for the next couple of years that would define what we can invest on players than P&L results. None of us know that.

Hence absent all this info I chose to believe the only club source sharing any information at the current time - Dyche - rather than posters on here. And I commend him for the seemingly very positive way he is accepting and dealing with the situation.

I am not talking about being reckless, for clarity. There have (and still are) Championship players available very cheaply in relative terms, but even a £20m player would only cost £5m up front spread over four years and I can't believe we are so devoid of cash we can't fine £5m. Especially considering that, if well invested & managed, it helps to protect the £130m revenue stream and is an asset likely to increase in value.

I commend the Board for not selling Tarks on the cheap - which at £35m he would have been, given WHU are spending that on a player that has never kicked a ball in the PL. He will go eventually and I accept that. But we need to be investing now in the players that will develop and attract these fee's in the years to come. If we stop investing in young players the model breaks.

So I come back to the question: with 10/11 OOC players next year and an aging squad, what are we going to do since we can't afford to recruit new players? Players aren't going to get cheaper and we are not going to get richer any time soon. Or are we just going to play the younger players when all the senior players leave?
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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by aggi » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:04 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:51 pm
In fairness, everybody's being placing faith towards the accounts in particular the numbers offered, what appears to be in grave doubt is the integrity of the financial information offered hence it being so highly debatable & contentious, bizzarely the maths just don't seem to be adding up at all, if the maths did add up people wouldn't even be questioning.
It's only in grave doubt if you're batshit mental. The numbers add up just as expected for anyone who understands finance.
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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:06 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:51 pm
I think the frustration thats around might dissipate somewhat if the club itself was more open about the true financial picture, rather than having to rely on nods and winks from individual posters on here . I greatly appreciate the knowledge and information from those who understand the finances much better than I do but wouldng it be helpful to have some sort of summary from Mr Garlick ? I dont think weve heard from him on the finances since March ?
the clubs communications are notoriously poor, of that there is little doubt.

There is the issue of the ALK bid and the almost certainty of the NDA to contend with, though I do not think we should be announcing our financial situation to our competitors beyond that which we are obliged too. If we say we are sound, prices of targets go up, If we say we are weak offers for our players go down - it is the nature of the beast.

I will say that if this runs through to next season (and there is currently nothing to suggest it won't) then a lot of clubs who have taken credit and/or incurred transfer debt will be forced to make some drastic cuts next summer. Brighton have made a net gain of around £16m in the summer window but have been bleating about the financial pressures all summer and are still at it almost daily, and we know their owner has never been shy about putting money into the club.
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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Dark Cloud » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:08 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:43 pm
That's very unfair.

When posts like this appear from very reasonable posters like ecc and randomclaret the frustration is palpable, but I don't see any shortage of desire. Remember the Board, first and foremost, are Burnley fans like the rest of us and want the best for us on the pitch, but it's tough right now and not likely to improve anytime soon.

No shortage of desire.......but definitely a shortage.
Roy, you mention reasonable posters actually becoming increasingly entrenched and frustrated and I actually think the issue around almost everything that's being posted on here right now, is as much to do with us losing the first 3 league games of the season, POSSIBLY due to having what for us, with our small squad, constitutes and injury crisis and that we've definitely not looked great whilst posting those defeats. Had we picked up say one win and a draw, much of the clamour, debate and back stabbing going on regarding our lack of incoming personnel in line with our realistic financial situation would be far more measured I think.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by aggi » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:08 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:02 pm
...

Sean's words were: "we are in very good shape financially I know that".

...
But obviously there are plenty of different interpretations to that.

It could mean that we have enough cash to buy a £20m player from the Championship, it could mean that we have deep enough reserves that we can cover salaries for the upcoming season.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Jakubclaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:09 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:04 pm
It's only in grave doubt if you're batshit mental. The numbers add up just as expected for anyone who understands finance.
On the contrary, you only need to look at some of the posters doubting the figures on the strength of that, it's not as clear cut as you are making out.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:12 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:08 pm
But obviously there are plenty of different interpretations to that.

It could mean that we have enough cash to buy a £20m player from the Championship, it could mean that we have deep enough reserves that we can cover salaries for the upcoming season.
I think this is the 3rd or 4th time he has posted that particular post - and he still refuses to accept his interpretation is not the only viable one

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by TVC15 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:13 pm

You had me at “ I'd say it's free cash flow for the next couple of years that would define what we can invest on players than P&L results’ - WTAF ?!!

I give up !!

As that brilliant philosopher Stan Laurel once said “you can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead”

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by randomclaret2 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:13 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:08 pm
Roy, you mention reasonable posters actually becoming increasingly entrenched and frustrated and I actually think the issue around almost everything that's being posted on here right now, is as much to do with us losing the first 3 league games of the season, POSSIBLY due to having what for us, with our small squad, constitutes and injury crisis and that we've definitely not looked great whilst posting those defeats. Had we picked up say one win and a draw, much of the clamour, debate and back stabbing going on regarding our lack of incoming personnel in line with our realistic financial situation would be far more measured I think.
There is certainly some truth in that DC .Im as bad as the next man for probably overreacting to a run of bad results, but I sense this time that the clubs lack of activity over several windows is leading to us falling behind our competitors and becoming locked into a vicious circle of decline.
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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by aggi » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:21 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:09 pm
On the contrary, you only need to look at some of the posters doubting the figures on the strength of that, it's not as clear cut as you are making out.
To be blunt though, that's because they have no idea what they're talking about.

Which figures are wrong?
Revenue - This is easy to check as the TV revenue is widely reported. It's in line with expectations.
Wages - We already have one of the lowest wage bills and it's another one that's pretty easy to benchmark as there are lots of other clubs to compare against. Do people really expect our wages are going to be half of Brighton's or something?
Other costs - again some of the lowest in the division. Do people really expect that you can run a premier league club with no costs.

Anyone with half a brain can see the numbers are realistic.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:24 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:42 pm
I’m as unhappy as any other supporter at the position we find ourselves in....and in no way have I ever said that the chairman, board or manager has not made mistakes. I just seem to be able to rationalise this a lot more that firstly so much of what we are facing was unpredictable and outside of are control and secondly I have always said that relegation is inevitable for all but half a dozen teams that are ever lucky enough to spend time in the Premier League....even those with billionaire owners of which we don’t have which increases our odds of avoiding it even more.
I like our Chairman. I don't think he has made many mistakes in his tenure. Nor do I want him to sell up (certainly to ALK). I also commend him for some of his actions this summer (not selling players cheaply). My only issue with the Chairman is that he seems, from information shared by Sean as recent as today, to be being very prudent and I'd like to see him being a bit less risk averse. I think that is what Sean is saying in respect to "stretching" rather than "breaking".

Also don't dispute that this would not mean we were dead certs to avoid relegation, we'd still be in the mix. But in that scenario, I'd feel we'd at least tried to develop and progress in this league.

And, if we really can't or wont, I think the fans are owed an explanation as to why and what the plan is with player recruitment moving forward because we cannot keep underinvesting in the first team forever - it will catch up with us eventually, which I'm sure everyone acknowledges!

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by TVC15 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:27 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:21 pm

Anyone with half a brain can see the numbers are realistic.
And herein lies the biggest problem !
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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:31 pm

TVC15 wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:13 pm
You had me at “ I'd say it's free cash flow for the next couple of years that would define what we can invest on players than P&L results’ - WTAF ?!!

I give up !!

As that brilliant philosopher Stan Laurel once said “you can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead”
Not really sure why you can't have a sensible debate about this topic without resorting to messages like this? None of my posts to you have been rude, just debating the topic.

So could you point out why our cash generation is not more relevant to our ability to sign players than a P&L statement? Cash is king, after all?

Or could you respond to any of the other questions I have posed in my last post. Primarily:

1. If we're so hard up, why does Sean keep saying we are not? Saying "how should we know?" doesn't really count - I'm just curious on what theories others have, what could be driving it?

2. If we can't afford to recruit players, what are we going to do? That's a pretty fundamental issue with 10/11 OOC players next year and an aging squad. Again, it's more an open question on how BFC is going to move forward than any particular dig at a Chairman or the club.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:44 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:08 pm
But obviously there are plenty of different interpretations to that.

It could mean that we have enough cash to buy a £20m player from the Championship, it could mean that we have deep enough reserves that we can cover salaries for the upcoming season.
True, aggi, but today Dyche's reference to being in good financial shape was very much in the context of signing players - so you'd assume in this context he means about our ability to compete with comparable PL teams in the transfer market vs. covering outgoings for the year.

"It starts with ourselves, the chairman and the board decide what we can do but there has to be alignment – there’s no point bringing in players for the sake of it, they’ve got to add value to the team or future value.
Some players we’ve brought in in the past have been development-style players. But we’re not that club now, we’ve moved on.
I think we should consider ourselves to have enough clout to start looking at players who are more game ready.
I’m not remotely saying we should be looking at the same players as the top six, but when you look at the outlays of the Brightons and Sheffield Uniteds, I think there’s a moment in time when you think ‘where are we really at?’ We’re in very good financial shape, how much do we intend on putting in?”

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by TVC15 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:46 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:31 pm
Not really sure why you can't have a sensible debate about this topic without resorting to messages like this? None of my posts to you have been rude, just debating the topic.

So could you point out why our cash generation is not more relevant to our ability to sign players than a P&L statement? Cash is king, after all?

Or could you respond to any of the other questions I have posed in my last post. Primarily:

1. If we're so hard up, why does Sean keep saying we are not? Saying "how should we know?" doesn't really count - I'm just curious on what theories others have, what could be driving it?

2. If we can't afford to recruit players, what are we going to do? That's a pretty fundamental issue with 10/11 OOC players next year and an aging squad. Again, it's more an open question on how BFC is going to move forward than any particular dig at a Chairman or the club.
I’ve said that ‘I give up’ so best to just leave it.
I and others have posted many times directly in response to you and others details about our finances - both historical and predicted. Your comment about Royboy just referring to historical financial information is just wrong - like so many of the points you make.

The fact that you make comments like ‘cash is king’ probably explains why you choose to ignore people who clearly have a lot more financial experience than you.

Don’t bother replying to me please.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by SGr » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:46 pm

So...we really needed to sell before we could buy but were desperate not to sell. And we really don't want to pay large fees for players but focussed on domestic recruitment.

Good to see all departments pulling in the same direction then.
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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by superdimitri » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:59 pm

What a relief it's over now. Let's hope this new Frenchman turns out to be the new Griezman and Stephens does a Pirlo and stays top of his game until 36.
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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:04 pm

superdimitri wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:59 pm
What a relief it's over now. Let's hope this new Frenchman turns out to be the new Griezman and Stephens does a Pirlo and stays top of his game until 36.
Would take him being playing like Pirlo for just one season, to be honest.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Dark Cloud » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:38 pm

Would actually take Pirlo at this stage!

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by kentonclaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:19 pm

I think I need something stronger than a beer. :lol:

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by aggi » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:02 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:44 pm
True, aggi, but today Dyche's reference to being in good financial shape was very much in the context of signing players - so you'd assume in this context he means about our ability to compete with comparable PL teams in the transfer market vs. covering outgoings for the year.

"It starts with ourselves, the chairman and the board decide what we can do but there has to be alignment – there’s no point bringing in players for the sake of it, they’ve got to add value to the team or future value.
Some players we’ve brought in in the past have been development-style players. But we’re not that club now, we’ve moved on.
I think we should consider ourselves to have enough clout to start looking at players who are more game ready.
I’m not remotely saying we should be looking at the same players as the top six, but when you look at the outlays of the Brightons and Sheffield Uniteds, I think there’s a moment in time when you think ‘where are we really at?’ We’re in very good financial shape, how much do we intend on putting in?”
I'd say that reads as semi-aspirational on what he'd like to be spending with the last line maybe injecting a note of realism but I wouldn't be hanging my hat on it meaning we have a decent amount of money to spend.

Personally I would describe us as being in good financial shape even though we likely don't have a huge amount to spend but different people would take that as meaning different things.

I'd prefer to rely on the historic figures and best estimates of the current situation rather than an ambiguous statement from an interested party.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by jojomk1 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:17 pm

SGr wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:46 pm
Good to see all departments pulling in the same direction then.
That's pretty much the remit of what Dianna Rigg was brought in for.

An excellent performance deserving of a bonus (if we can afford to give him one, a bonus I mean)
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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:54 pm

jojomk1 wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:17 pm
That's pretty much the remit of what Dianna Rigg was brought in for.

An excellent performance deserving of a bonus (if we can afford to give him one, a bonus I mean)
Yes it’s hard to imagine how bad our transfer dealings would be without Rigg!
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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Taffy on the wing » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:07 pm

I get a headache after reading this thread.
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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:17 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:02 pm
I'd say that reads as semi-aspirational on what he'd like to be spending with the last line maybe injecting a note of realism but I wouldn't be hanging my hat on it meaning we have a decent amount of money to spend.

Personally I would describe us as being in good financial shape even though we likely don't have a huge amount to spend but different people would take that as meaning different things.

I'd prefer to rely on the historic figures and best estimates of the current situation rather than an ambiguous statement from an interested party.
That’s fair enough. I see it slightly differently but can see your point.

He also has an agenda as he’ll be wanting to use his public profile to push something through, no doubt. It also perhaps sounds like he’s pushing back on cheaper players and saying “no better than what I’ve got”?

I’d be very shocked if he doesn’t have a detailed view of:

- the forecasted financial impacts of the various movements (income reductions, less expense reductions, plus any new revenue like PPV); and
- cash in the bank

to inform statements like these.

I still feel we need to understand what the plan is if we genuinely can’t afford to buy players, given the OOC situation/squad age.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:34 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:17 pm
That’s fair enough. I see it slightly differently but can see your point.

He also has an agenda as he’ll be wanting to use his public profile to push something through, no doubt. It also perhaps sounds like he’s pushing back on cheaper players and saying “no better than what I’ve got”?

I’d be very shocked if he doesn’t have a detailed view of:

- the forecasted financial impacts of the various movements (income reductions, less expense reductions, plus any new revenue like PPV); and
- cash in the bank

to inform statements like these.

I still feel we need to understand what the plan is if we genuinely can’t afford to buy players, given the OOC situation/squad age.
given his repeated statements on never having a budget I would be very shocked if he had any of that detail and PPV is very much up in the air - if this were Germany I would say PPV was a non-starter but English fans are not as disciplined

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:37 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:54 pm
Yes it’s hard to imagine how bad our transfer dealings would be without Rigg!
If I was him, I’d feel really insecure about my job. :lol: :lol:

Imagine him at interview...

Interviewer: So why are you looking to leave your role as Head of Recruitment at BFC?

Rigg: Errrrrm they don’t sign any players.

Interviewer: :lol: I was just ****ing with you, Mike :lol: So tell me about the achievements you’re most proud of over the last three years?

Rigg: :x Stop it!!!

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:41 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:34 pm
given his repeated statements on never having a budget I would be very shocked if he had any of that detail and PPV is very much up in the air - if this were Germany I would say PPV was a non-starter but English fans are not as disciplined
Maybe not, CP.

Sure he’ll get invited to management calls where the other net impacts and forecasts are discussed though.

Re PPV he’ll perhaps know more about how the cash is intended to be distributed though - I.e. shared or to individual clubs. Accept PPV is early days for take up though.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:44 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:34 pm
given his repeated statements on never having a budget I would be very shocked if he had any of that detail and PPV is very much up in the air - if this were Germany I would say PPV was a non-starter but English fans are not as disciplined
Sorry, and to your other point about not having a budget, that is curious in itself?

Do other clubs work that way or just us?

Feels from the outside that MG just feels very uncomfortable signing players at this level hence doesn’t want to set a budget as such? Or that he knows what he would be comfortable setting Sean would view as derisory?

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by burnley007 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:54 am

Getting really excited about who we're going to buy this afternoon, because let's be honest there can be no scenario where we don't sign anyone. It is absolutely essential. We are desperate for 2 or 3 new signings.
Surely MG will be all over this...



ffs

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by PremierLeagueClass » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:56 am

Benrahma fails medical at West Ham.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by snapcrackleandpop » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:10 pm

burnley007 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:54 am
Getting really excited about who we're going to buy this afternoon, because let's be honest there can be no scenario where we don't sign anyone. It is absolutely essential. We are desperate for 2 or 3 new signings.
Surely MG will be all over this...



ffs
I don't believe we will sign anybody at all, now if this is something to do with the takeover I can sort of understand it - well no I can't actually. But if it's not then there is something seriously wrong at this football club.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by tiger76 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:14 pm

I'd actually forgotten the transfer window was still open, I expect us to sign nobody, so if that's the case I won't be disappointed.

Now if we can get our walking wounded back in the ensuing weeks we could yet have enough to survive, and that's the number one aim this season now, 17th would be viewed a success. The priority is maintaining our PL status, and if we can somehow do that for another season, then hopefully by next summer the covid crisis will be lifting, and we'll be able to strengthen the squad.

Also in a year's time it's possible that some of the budding youngsters will be vying for a first team place, and if that proves to be the case, then we might not need to sign as many players as many folks believe.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by warksclaret » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:34 pm

If we are desperate for CB cover, Bennett of Wolves is free and maybe available on a loan. He went on loan with Leicester last year and made some appearances

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by Archer » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:37 pm

warksclaret wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:34 pm
If we are desperate for CB cover, Bennett of Wolves is free and maybe available on a loan. He went on loan with Leicester last year and made some appearances
Aren't Wolves in the Premier League?

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by randomclaret2 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:43 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:14 pm
I'd actually forgotten the transfer window was still open, I expect us to sign nobody, so if that's the case I won't be disappointed.

Now if we can get our walking wounded back in the ensuing weeks we could yet have enough to survive, and that's the number one aim this season now, 17th would be viewed a success. The priority is maintaining our PL status, and if we can somehow do that for another season, then hopefully by next summer the covid crisis will be lifting, and we'll be able to strengthen the squad.

Also in a year's time it's possible that some of the budding youngsters will be vying for a first team place, and if that proves to be the case, then we might not need to sign as many players as many folks believe.
Mike, is that you ??

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by warksclaret » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:45 pm

Archer wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:37 pm
Aren't Wolves in the Premier League?
Archer-good point. What threw me was that Sheff Wed were keen on him

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by tiger76 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:01 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:43 pm
Mike, is that you ??
Nope :) I never said I was happy with our lack of activity in this window, or indeed the preceding windows, but that's the scenario we face, and if that's the way it is, we should where possible promote the development squad players, Benson, Dunne, Glennon, Goodridge, Richardson, Thomas & Thompson are all showing promise, now if only 1 or 2 of that bunch can cement a place in the first team XI, or even the squad then it would vindicate the Barnfield investment, and at long last we appear to have some talent coming through the academy after years of failure, let's celebrate our success in that field, rather than keep buying 30+ year old journeymen such as Dale Stephens, it's signings such as him that'll hinder the chances of the youngsters breaking through, and on his limited viewing so far, he isn't an obvious upgrade on what we currently have, and he'll be a further drain on scarce resources, plus he's yet another ageing pro who'll have no sell-on value.

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Re: Extended Transfer Window Autumn 2020 (Must Contain Link)’ thread

Post by NewClaret » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:49 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:01 pm
Nope :) I never said I was happy with our lack of activity in this window, or indeed the preceding windows, but that's the scenario we face, and if that's the way it is, we should where possible promote the development squad players, Benson, Dunne, Glennon, Goodridge, Richardson, Thomas & Thompson are all showing promise, now if only 1 or 2 of that bunch can cement a place in the first team XI, or even the squad then it would vindicate the Barnfield investment, and at long last we appear to have some talent coming through the academy after years of failure, let's celebrate our success in that field, rather than keep buying 30+ year old journeymen such as Dale Stephens, it's signings such as him that'll hinder the chances of the youngsters breaking through, and on his limited viewing so far, he isn't an obvious upgrade on what we currently have, and he'll be a further drain on scarce resources, plus he's yet another ageing pro who'll have no sell-on value.
Agree with this Tiger. One benefit of this is the opportunity it will give our youngsters. Just wish we really had the emerging talent in the positions we desperately need cover.

Stephens I also agree on, but think on balance I’d take the experience in such a critical are of the pitch.

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