Three Tier Lockdown

[Targetman]

It's local authorities who decide on gyms not the government.



Liverpool chose to shut gyms ontop of the tier 3 restrictions, Lancashire didn't.

Heard Mark Townsend on BBC Radio Lancashire earlier, his comments were spot on and demonstrate a capable council leader in vast contrast to his Labour colleague running Manchester City Council who is continuing to ignore the calls of ICU doctors in Manchester hospitals to "Shut up and Shut down".

The leader of Lancashire County Council said earlier today on TV that they had managed to persuade Government that the gyms in Lancashire were perfectly safe for members to use.

The Government has subsequently allowed Gyms in Lancashire to remain open at the current time although this could change.

So saying that local authorities decide whether gyms remain open or not seems to be incorrect.

[jrgbfc]

So what is an acceptable time period to wait for a vaccine while we completely trash the world economy and ruin people's lives? 6 months, 18 months? The long term effects of these measures will do more harm than the virus itself.

[fidelcastro]

Why did they put Dido Harding in charge of the Track and Trace system when she inspires little confidence?

I'm sure the fact she's married to a tory MP is a mere coincidence.

[SingaporeClarets]

The leader of Lancashire County Council said earlier today on TV that they had managed to persuade Government that the gyms in Lancashire were perfectly safe for members to use.

The Government has subsequently allowed Gyms in Lancashire to remain open at the current time although this could change.

So saying that local authorities decide whether gyms remain open or not seems to be incorrect.

Government comment on this:

21:34

Local leaders should decide whether gyms close or not, says No 10

The prime minister's official spokesperson has said it is up to regional leaders to decide this measure as part of Tier 3 restrictions.
Gyms are closed in the Liverpool City region, but they will remain open in Lancashire when it enters the strictest level of measures.
"The purpose of the Very High level is to allow for local, tailored interventions and they are determined on the basis of discussions with local authorities and based on local evidence," the spokesperson said.
"You have soft play and car boot sales which are open in Merseyside but will be closed in Lancashire, whereas for gyms the opposite is the case."
Asked about what evidence this is based on, they said: "There is a consultation process that takes place with local authorities that is based on local evidence.
"And on the basis of that it is determined which measures above the baseline should be implemented."

[barba]

Does anyone know without me having to trawl through the legislation what is illegal and what is advised against.

[fidelcastro]

Does anyone know without me having to trawl through the legislation what is illegal and what is advised against.

No. Nobody has got a bloody clue, which is at least part of the reason people will continue to do what they like as much as they can.

Crap leadership from an inept government.

[martin_p]

Is scouse a race??

No it’s not, I was throwing back the lazy stereotype ‘people from Burnley are racist’ in response to all the tired scouse stereotypes.

[aggi]

Does anyone know without me having to trawl through the legislation what is illegal and what is advised against.

The legislation is pretty lengthy. I read some of it yesterday concerning childcare and there are a few areas where it differs from the government guidance (possibly unintentionally).

[Grumps]

No it’s not, I was throwing back the lazy stereotype ‘people from Burnley are racist’ in response to all the tired scouse stereotypes.

Can you be racist then against them if they are not a race?

[mkmel]

An estimated 27900 positive cases a day in England according to Office for National Statistics.
More accurate figures from ONS than the Government?
Surely it's not a question of if but when there is going to be a National lockdown? And then how many lives will have been lost by the Government's delay in imposing a National lockdown?

BBC News - Coronavirus infections still rising rapidly
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54567867

[martin_p]

Can you be racist then against them if they are not a race?

I was making the general point that everyone from Burnley is racist in the same way he was making the general point that all scousers wear shell suits. Both are equally true.

[Devils_Advocate]

Can you be racist then against them if they are not a race?

What are you on about, noones suggested anything in regards racism towards the people of Liverpool or scousers as they are effectionatly known?

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

The ‘talks’ between the government and Lancashire Councils sound like they were really constructive!!

[fidelcastro]

The ‘talks’ between the government and Lancashire Councils sound like they were really constructive!!

Oh, I dunno, we can all still go to the gym!

[Bigbopper]

Maybe they shut the gyms in Liverpool to stop the locals nicking the hand sanitiser .JOKE

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Boris once again managing to get his own rules wrong at the press conference!

[Grumps]

What are you on about, noones suggested anything in regards racism towards the people of Liverpool or scousers as they are effectionatly known?

I think you need to read the posts before jumping in and stirring things up, as is your default setting.

[Inchy]

I think what was stark is the fact 40% of hospital admissions are under 60.

The vast majority of patients I’ve taken to ICU with covid are under 60. Granted I’m unlikely to take a 90 year old with covid and multiple co-morbidities, but this disease doesn’t effect just the old.

It’s nothing like flu. Flu very very rarely kills 40 year olds. I’ve seen covid do that several times.

ICU beds are filling up and elective surgery hasn’t been stopped yet meaning ICU is already under usual pressure unlike last time

[Inchy]

Is this figure correct? Are you saying half the patients you are seeing in intensive care (WITH AN AVERAGE AGE OF 50) are not surviving? That figure seems extremely high for such a relatively young age bracket.

I’m saying the average age of patients I have taken In to intensive care with covid is about 50. Not all of them will
Be intubated. The majority are not. But a fair number are. And once tubed, survival is about 50/50 from what I’ve seen and that seems to be what’s been mirrored across the globe

[CombatClaret]

I think what was stark is the fact 40% of hospital admissions are under 60.

The vast majority of patients I’ve taken to ICU with covid are under 60. Granted I’m unlikely to take a 90 year old with covid and multiple co-morbidities, but this disease doesn’t effect just the old.

It’s nothing like flu. Flu very very rarely kills 40 year olds. I’ve seen covid do that several times.

ICU beds are filling up and elective surgery hasn’t been stopped yet meaning ICU is already under usual pressure unlike last time

Something people who don't want any more restrictions are willfully ignoring.

This kills younger people and can leave anyone who had even a mild case with potentially life altering side effects.

There is no such thing as herd immunity, people incorrectly saying it's no worse than flu like to ignore we've never built herd immunity to that. All the diseases we not longer worry about, polio, hepatitis etc where herd immunity has only ever been attained by vaccination.

[Devils_Advocate]

I think you need to read the posts before jumping in and stirring things up, as is your default setting.

I did and that's why I asked what an earth you was on about. Seems you were the one that jumped in, not me

[Burnley Ace]

The leader of Lancashire County Council said earlier today on TV that they had managed to persuade Government that the gyms in Lancashire were perfectly safe for members to use.

The Government has subsequently allowed Gyms in Lancashire to remain open at the current time although this could change.

So saying that local authorities decide whether gyms remain open or not seems to be incorrect.

He’s explained why LCC haven’t closed gyms. It’s there decision and the Gov have accepted that. If they wanted to close them they would have probably accepted that as well

[Burnley Ace]

Does anyone know without me having to trawl through the legislation what is illegal and what is advised against.

Any area in particular that’s of concern?

[ClaretDiver]

Something people who don't want any more restrictions are willfully ignoring.

This kills younger people and can leave anyone who had even a mild case with potentially life altering side effects.

This is key to me....I am not under 40 but am under 50, so far I have been 'lucky' in not contracting this even though my partner works in a very high risk environment up here in the NE. The primary concern for me is the cases of people beginning to develop long term effects...especially on the lungs. As a diver I try to keep myself as fit as possible in order to continue diving/teaching. Should I develop any of these issues it would devastate me should I not be able to continue my passion. I know that soulnds selfish but that is why I have been doing everything I can to avoid getting this shi%%y virus!

[ClaretAndJew]

We're headed for a national lockdown, it is inevitable.

[Burnley1989]

It’s a real wasps nest, I’m started to have really strong feelings towards family members & my friends behaviour, weather it being claiming money they shouldn’t, visiting whoever they want, ignoring rules. I’ve even had a ‘to do’ with the Mrs about a baby shower she’s going to. Some of their arguments I struggle to defend, I’m so fed up of all this

[nonayclaret]

I am in a pub at the moment in a high category area ,silsden, mixing with strangers indoors. Yet i cant go on holiday in a self catering cottage with my sister next week because she lives in a high category area and cannot mix indoors with me. Is this sensible?

[Boss Hogg]

People are ignoring distancing. They think they neednt bother because they have a mask on, that’s when they can be bothered and bothered to put it on properly. Let pubs open far too soon, shouldnt have sent students back and shouldn’t have allowed foreign holidays. Full lockdown will come otherwise we won’t get on top of it before Christmas. You can’t see someone outside in a big garden. But you can go to a gym or pool and mix with loads of sweating panting strangers and go on holiday.. Right ok then.

[TheFamilyCat]

It’s a real wasps nest, I’m started to have really strong feelings towards family members & my friends behaviour, weather it being claiming money they shouldn’t, visiting whoever they want, ignoring rules. I’ve even had a ‘to do’ with the Mrs about a baby shower she’s going to. Some of their arguments I struggle to defend, I’m so fed up of all this

I think I'd be having more of a 'to do' with my wife if she was planning on doing something so idiotic.

[Burnley1989]

I think I'd be having more of a 'to do' with my wife if she was planning on doing something so idiotic.

Good for you

[Lowbankclaret]

I am in a pub at the moment in a high category area ,silsden, mixing with strangers indoors. Yet i cant go on holiday in a self catering cottage with my sister next week because she lives in a high category area and cannot mix indoors with me. Is this sensible?

No it’s not, the pub should be shut if it’s not serving food to tables and people should not be mixing. But if your ok with it crack on, I would leave immediately.

[FactualFrank]

People are ignoring distancing. They think they neednt bother because they have a mask on, that’s when they can be bothered and bothered to put it on properly. Let pubs open far too soon, shouldnt have sent students back and shouldn’t have allowed foreign holidays. Full lockdown will come otherwise we won’t get on top of it before Christmas. You can’t see someone outside in a big garden. But you can go to a gym or pool and mix with loads of sweating panting strangers and go on holiday.. Right ok then.

One thing we know and that is lockdown worked. It's just the way we came out of it.

I think the Tier system can work, however I think the starting numbers need to be lower in order for it to be effective. Which means a nationwide lockdown to 'reset'.

It seems to be very much a learning game. If they don't learn quick enough, then a full lockdown is needed in order for them to try again.

[TheFamilyCat]

One thing we know and that is lockdown worked. It's just the way we came out of it.

I think the Tier system can work, however I think the starting numbers need to be lower in order for it to be effective. Which means a nationwide lockdown to 'reset'.

It seems to be very much a learning game. If they don't learn quick enough, then a full lockdown is needed in order for them to try again.

They should have realised that different localised restrictions didn't work. I'm not sure what rebranding them as "tiers" is meant to achieve.

[uni_queue]

I am in a pub at the moment in a high category area ,silsden, mixing with strangers indoors. Yet i cant go on holiday in a self catering cottage with my sister next week because she lives in a high category area and cannot mix indoors with me. Is this sensible?

Erm... no wonder we have a problem .....

[boatshed bill]

One thing we know and that is lockdown worked. It's just the way we came out of it.

I think the Tier system can work, however I think the starting numbers need to be lower in order for it to be effective. Which means a nationwide lockdown to 'reset'.

It seems to be very much a learning game. If they don't learn quick enough, then a full lockdown is needed in order for them to try again.

Need to bring in travel restrictions, Frank.

[arise_sir_charge]

I’m sick of reading “I can do this but I can’t do that”, then “I can that but can’t do this” and people snarling about it.

The reality is that as soon as any form of restriction is implemented there will be a counter scenario that seems ok or contradictory but isn’t allowed. The only way you avoid that is by total lockdown which we want to avoid at all costs.

It’s simple really, some of the scenarios allowed are a little riskier but to try to protect the economy, even a little and others are to protect people.....there has to be a balance between both otherwise you may as well not bother with any.

[Top Claret]

Covid does not kill but obesity does

I suggest all you fat over weight clarets out their hit weight watchers before it is to late

[boatshed bill]

Covid does not kill but obesity does

I suggest all you fat over weight clarets out their hit weight watchers before it is to late

There's still a whole lot to be learned about the long-term effects.
There is the possibility of certain symptoms, which will ruin the individuals quality of life, staying with the host even possibly for life.

[bfcjg]

Lockdowns are just delaying tactics. The last one bought us just a few months of low numbers and it's back to square one again. More modest restrictions but correctly adhered to and huge fines for transgressors should be the norm.

[Burnley1989]

Covid does not kill but obesity does

I suggest all you fat over weight clarets out their hit weight watchers before it is to late

As it happens I’ve a few mates who are in there 30’s but touching 16/17 stone (very little muscle) they’ve not bothered with social distancing to the extreme you should (unless there’s no alternative)

I said to the Mrs, I wonder if they’d have that attitude in 20/30 years because they’d be extremely high risk.

[boatshed bill]

Lockdowns are just delaying tactics. The last one bought us just a few months of low numbers and it's back to square one again. More modest restrictions but correctly adhered to and huge fines for transgressors should be the norm.

You are right.
But they could buy us the time to develop a vaccine.

[mdd2]

No. Nobody has got a bloody clue, which is at least part of the reason people will continue to do what they like as much as they can.

Crap leadership from an inept government.

SD 2 metres+ wash hands frequently wear masks in public places a basic simple message out since March. Stick with it and cases will fall-ignore it and you get what we are seeing now. More to do with crass people than crap Government. The crap Governments are those over the last 50 years who have permitted the run down of hospital bed numbers for too long so that with bed occupancy rates of over 90% when something like this comes along the NHS cannot cope.

[Mala591]

Four people sat round a table having a drink vs four people sat round a table having a meal

No difference in infection risk.

Northern towns will be locked down for several months with devastating results. Town centres totally deserted. We are teetering on the edge of total social disaster.

[CrosspoolClarets]

You are right.
But they could buy us the time to develop a vaccine.

Listened to Jeremy Farrar of the Wellcome Trust tonight on the BBC News podcast, He is one of the world’s top experts in tropical medicine and vaccination (was head of the WHO dengue vaccine unit for a time).

My take on it was that he was quite pessimistic about a vaccine. Mentioned all the other diseases where there is a lack of one. He seemed pro lockdown but to give us time for new treatments, not a vaccine.

That’s why I worry about economic calamity while we get our act in order. I fear that we are too free spirited in the west, we won’t stop bunches of kids out on the razz while pubs are open. We could end up locking down 4 times while we wait for a vaccine, the last UK lockdown probably cost 81,500 early deaths (ONS, reported by Sky on 8th Aug), 16,000 during that 2 month period, the rest over the next 50 years. Even if that’s half accurate, its devastating.

[Mala591]

Covid does not kill but obesity does

I suggest all you fat over weight clarets out their hit weight watchers before it is to late

WRONG. Obesity doesn't kill but covid does.

[Burnley1989]

If you’ve watched inbetweeners you’ll remember it

[boatshed bill]

WRONG. Obesity doesn't kill but covid does.

Obesity causes heart and joint problems. And does cause deaths

[Dyched]

Four people sat round a table having a drink vs four people sat round a table having a meal

No difference in infection risk.

Northern towns will be locked down for several months with devastating results. Town centres totally deserted. We are teetering on the edge of total social disaster.

I‘ve worked in hospitality for many years. I know from experience of several restaurants and settings down the years that no kitchen in any restaurant can be kept safe with social distancing/masks or whatever. They just wouldn’t function if they did. So whilst great steps are made front of house for the customers, out back it’s a far different story.

[Mala591]

Time to stop playing games. Total NATIONAL lockdown for 4-6 weeks might give us a chance of slowing the virus (and deaths) down. We (Lancashire) supported London when they were in the shite and now they must lock down to support us. Schools/colleges/universities need to be shut down immediately before it's too late.

[boatshed bill]

Time to stop playing games. Total NATIONAL lockdown for 4-6 weeks might give us a chance of slowing the virus (and deaths) down. We (Lancashire) supported London when they were in the shite and now they must lock down to support us. Schools/colleges/universities need to be shut down immediately before it's too late.

I totally agree on the lockdown.
I've hardly changed my behaviour since the first one. It's a shame that so many think that they have a right to the way our modern society behaves.
Expectations of lifestyle need to be changed.