England

[Steve1956]

We were crap and deserved to lose BUT he gave them some dodgy free kicks in the middle and was pretty inconsistent. There was no difference between their penalty and the challenge on coady. On Southgate, why are we playing such negative defensive footy when we have all of that attacking talent?

i could be wrong please let me know if i am,is it because the manager hasnt got a F**king clue?

[matttheclaret]

Massive step backwards over the last couple of months.

We've played four Nations League games, I'd say we've played well for about half a game. We've scored three goals, two of which were debatable penalties and the other a massive deflection. Players being played out of position, the continued selection of Pickford, no left back in the entire squad in last time round. Lack of minutes for Grealish is very strange.

Very strange decisions from Southgate atm

[WazzaClaret]

i could be wrong please let me know if i am,is it because the manager hasnt got a F**king clue?

A big fat ******* yes

[Rileybobs]

Referee applied law tonight. Well done to,him. Very good performance. Stood up to the usual bull.

Ok, did he apply the law consistently?

For example, why did Coady not get awarded a penalty for an almost identical challenge as the one Walker was penalised for?

Why did a Denmark player (Poulsen I think) not get a yellow card for dragging down Kane on the halfway line? Then why didn’t the player who was preventing Phillips from retrieving the ball not get a yellow card, before giving Phillips a yellow card for retrieving the ball?

In the later stages...
Why did the ref give a free kick against Kane for a perfectly fair challenge?

Why did he give a free kick against Phillips for an equally fair challenge.

I know footballers are bad losers, but it was clear from the reaction of the players, and even Southgate that they thought he had a poor game.

This is nothing to do with England’s performance, which was shocking. But I think it’s totally fair that the referee is being criticised for some decisions tonight. The two performances are independent of each other and can be judged as such.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

INteresting that a Chelsea player wanted to have his say at the end and was sent on his way by the referee. A defeat and two red cards but let's blame the officials.

[SalisburyClaret]

Southgate wants England to play like Spain - can’t complain if he doesn’t like Spanish refereeing

[Rileybobs]

INteresting that a Chelsea player wanted to have his say at the end and was sent on his way by the referee. A defeat and two red cards but let's blame the officials.

Nobody, and I mean literally nobody, is blaming the officials for England’s performance. Why is this so difficult to understand?

[dpinsussex]

Ok, did he apply the law consistently?

For example, why did Coady not get awarded a penalty for an almost identical challenge as the one Walker was penalised for?

Why did a Denmark player (Poulsen I think) not get a yellow card for dragging down Kane on the halfway line? Then why didn’t the player who was preventing Phillips from retrieving the ball not get a yellow card, before giving Phillips a yellow card for retrieving the ball?

In the later stages...
Why did the ref give a free kick against Kane for a perfectly fair challenge?

Why did he give a free kick against Phillips for an equally fair challenge.

I know footballers are bad losers, but it was clear from the reaction of the players, and even Southgate that they thought he had a poor game.

This is nothing to do with England’s performance, which was shocking. But I think it’s totally fair that the referee is being criticised for some decisions tonight. The two performances are mutually exclusive of each other and can be judged as such.

Imo was consistent.

The individual incidents i need to watch a tepay. The fact i need a replay suggests that nothing stimulated my brain cells. Therefore he was probably correct. But will review when I get a chance

[Wile E Coyote]

southgate has done well comparatively, can't really complain with out world cup showing, and how long was it before that tournament we reached that stage of the competition .
prior to his appointment it was pure rubbish dating back to ramsey.

[Steve1956]

southgate has done well comparatively, can't really complain with out world cup showing, and how long was it before that tournament we reached that stage of the competition .
prior to his appointment it was pure rubbish dating back to ramsey.

[Steve1956]

Aaron Ramsey has never managed England!

[tiger76]

So many things wrong with this England team.

Pickford, Maguire, Dier(I know he didn't play tonight). Just nowhere near good enough. We suffer creativity going forward, yet Grealish is left on the bench.

Rasford is a player, and there have been many over the years, who get this inflated reputation from having 6 average meh games, and 1 really outstanding game. It's not good enough at this level, because when he has his meh games we might as well be playing with 10 men.

Southgates system, if it is a system, certainly doesn't suit the players hes got, as someone else said whats the point of playing the ball put from the back, if it just means the full back wellies it instead of the keeper.

We need Southgate to go, but we all know that isn't going to happen.

Can't argue with any of that CC, Southgate is living on the 2018 WC, and even in that run to the last 4, England were unconvincing to put it mildly.

He's been in charge long enough now to be able to create a system which best suits the players, and one which they are comfortable with.

Add to that the madness of picking out of form players, and constantly playing people out of position for no obvious reason, stop complicating the job Gareth, it's simple play the players in their favoured roles, and pick players on form not reputation.

And all this p*ssing about at the back needs to stop the England players don't possess the technical prowess to male it work effectively, get back to basics and play to our strengths, Oh! and play Jack Grealish for heaven's sake, he's one of the few who can unlock tight defences, and create something out of nothing.

[boatshed bill]

Harry Kane, off form or unfit?

[elwaclaret]

Pampered kids acting like pampered kids. For everything wrong in the modern game look at the National team and its setup top to bottom.

[Socrates]

southgate has done well comparatively, can't really complain with out world cup showing, and how long was it before that tournament we reached that stage of the competition .
prior to his appointment it was pure rubbish dating back to ramsey.

Italia 90?

Euro 96?

[Rileybobs]

Redknapp suggesting playing Alexander Arnold in midfield. Haha. Yes, lets play three right backs.

[Vino blanco]

No service to Kane from our midfield. Only attacking threat was James crossing the ball.

[boatshed bill]

southgate has done well comparatively, can't really complain with out world cup showing, and how long was it before that tournament we reached that stage of the competition .
prior to his appointment it was pure rubbish dating back to ramsey.

The thing about Alf Ramsey is that he created a "system" full backs pushing up and no real wingers.
Southgate isn't doing anything innovative, just a poor version (or at least trying to be) of Man City's playing "out from the back", but without the players capable of it.

[The Enclosure]

Hate to say this but they do miss Sterling's penetrating runs on goal.

[Rileybobs]

Southgate 'couldn't be prouder of the squad'.

[boatshed bill]

All this playing out from the back, which results in GS picking an inferior goalkeeper, is OK if it does what it is intended to do, which I believe is to draw the opposition forward to create space. It doesn't take a genius to realise that if the team out of possession don't get sucked in then the tactic is pointless

[Vino blanco]

Southgate thought we controlled the game, but we have a young team who are still learning. Maguire is a top player and is a big part of what we do. Same old garbage. He needs to look back at Pickford's position for their penalty. Same old garbage. The performance was excellent with 11 men and outstanding with 10 men. Same old garbage.

[Stayingup]

Let’s be clear. Nobody has said otherwise. It is possible for both England and the referee to be poor.

Thats a senseless comment.

[Rileybobs]

Thats a senseless comment.

How is that? Do you disagree that a team can play poorly whilst a referee officiates the same game poorly?

[Wile E Coyote]

Italia 90?

Euro 96?

i said world cup. venables was the dud who flopped in the euros, and it was at home.

[elwaclaret]

i said world cup. venables was the dud who flopped in the euros, and it was at home.

Bobby Robson a flop?

[Stayingup]

How is that? Do you disagree that a team can play poorly whilst a referee officiates the same game poorly?
[/quotits

Its just an irrelevance. Enland were poor. The referee"s performance has not affected that.

[tiger76]

Southgate thought we controlled the game, but we have a young team who are still learning. Maguire is a top player and is a big part of what we do. Same old garbage. He needs to look back at Pickford's position for their penalty. Same old garbage. The performance was excellent with 11 men and outstanding with 10 men. Same old garbage.

I'm fed up hearing the same nonsense espoused about this squad, yes they are young, but the majority have plenty of PL experience behind them.

If Southgate is relying on Maguire to play a big part in England's future then he's clearly talking out of his a**e like he always does after a defeat.

TBF to the players if they are picked as square pegs in round holes, then you can't really blame them, ultimately the buck lies with the gaffer, he selects the team and the tactics, and quite clearly he's out of his depth in doing either function.

The Belgium win papered over the cracks for a few days, but that was fortunate in the manner it was achieved, and tonight is a reality check for those who dream of England competing in the latter stages of either the Euro's or the World Cup, that's cloud cuckoo land based on the last year of performances and results.

[Rileybobs]

This is a thread about the England v Denmark game. How is the referee’s performance in the England v Denmark game irrelevant?

[Wile E Coyote]

Bobby Robson a flop?

i wrote venables, and you mentioned someone else entirely.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Bobby Robson a flop?

Southgate is as successful as Robson who is widely held in high regard for what he did with England...

Let that sink in.

[boatshed bill]

Southgate is as successful as Robson who is widely held in high regard for what he did with England...

Let that sink in.

We played some really good football under Robson.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

We played some really good football under Robson.

Apparently we have under Southgate at times.

They've both taken England to the semi finals of a world Cup though.
If Southgate had managed to get to the final then he would've been more successful than Robson.

[boatshed bill]

Apparently we have under Southgate at times.

They've both taken England to the semi finals of a world Cup though.
If Southgate had managed to get to the final then he would've been more successful than Robson.

That is true.
Mostly with England managers their success equates to the quality of players available. Robson had some good ones as does Southgate.
Shows how sh!te Erikson was!

[Wile E Coyote]

guaranteed anyone having a pop at southgate was in three lions fanatic mode when the world cup semi final was on TV.
easy to criticise when you lack football knowledge.

[Dyched]

It’s a tough task for Southgate. He said from the start he wanted to create a club style culture which he probably has. His England sides look more like mates with one another than previous eras recently. He also said he wanted to try players and have a much bigger pool with experience to select from. The trouble is there isn’t enough games a year to play your best 11 to gain that understanding with one another and also giving other players a chance. He’s going about it in the right way imo. Come tournament time, if he has 50 or so players that have been involved over the past 2 years, thats a decent amount with experience. If think that’s where we’ve struggled in the past. Past the first 11 plus 3 subs, there was hardly any real experience at international level. The only downside for me at present is the complete lack of winners at club level. Most haven’t won a single trophy, apart from the Liverpool few and Sterling.

[huw.Y.WattfromWare]

Referee applied law tonight. Well done to,him. Very good performance. Stood up to the usual bull.

Not using his performance as an excuse for Englands abysmal showing but he was inconsistent in many of his decisions. No arguments from me on the red, I’d have given him one for his first yellow. But if theirs was a pen., 50-50 call, then Coady should have had one at the death. In both instances the player was caught after nicking the ball away. The yellow for Phillips was given with his back to the incident and purely on the play acting of Paulsen. Then Henderson picks up a yellow because they are so frustrated by him. Why was no yellow given when Kane made a late break from the halfway line?
It was a typical Spanish referee show. Over dramatic, flashing cards for fun early then settling down. Not for me at all.

[claret2018]

Seeing England being back to their dreadful usual selves has made the world feel a bit more normal.

[dsr]

Imo was consistent.

The individual incidents i need to watch a tepay. The fact i need a replay suggests that nothing stimulated my brain cells. Therefore he was probably correct. But will review when I get a chance

Phillips got booked because he put his foot on the ball to drag it into place for an England free kick. You might think that was OK, but apparently not if a Dane pouts his foot on the ball and then throws himself on the floor. I suppose under the rule as applied that going near someone is a foul if that man falls on the floor, he was right. As it was a dead ball, perhaps Phillips should have been sent off?

As for the penalty, clear as day. The Dane went up to Walker, pushed him, put his arms round him, pulled him, and dived to the floor while kicking the ball. Clear penalty because the two players touched and the Dane fell over; the pushing and pulling couldn't be a foul on Walker because he didn't fall over. Fall over = foul every time; don't fall over = never a foul.

As for England's performance. Yuck. The big problem with that match, as so often in internationals, is that from when Denmark scored to the last ten minutes, both sides were concentrating on not letting a goal in. Both sides were hoping that nothing would happen. and surprise surprise, nothing did.

England are a lot like Burnley in one way. Burnley play it long to the forwards, England pass it about around the back 9, but ultimately both sides depend on dead balls to a great extent because they can't successfully play the tippy-tappy constructive stuff. England try to do it, Burnley don't try to do it, but we have as much success as they do.

[superdimitri]

Someone must have been sniping from the roof tops. Saw Poulsen get shot and scream about 10 times. Does anyone know if he's okay?

How the ref falls for that crap I don't know.

[DomBFC1882]

Southgate out. Clueless is an understatement. No grealish, pope, tarkowski?? Playing people out position despite all the talent we have to pick from smh

[GodIsADeeJay81]

guaranteed anyone having a pop at southgate was in three lions fanatic mode when the world cup semi final was on TV.
easy to criticise when you lack football knowledge.

Can guarantee you I wasn't.

[superdimitri]

Wasn't all bad. Some players had real stinkers but some also did ok.

Pickford made some good passes but didn't command his area for the goal.
Maitland-Niles looked handy in attack before he was subbed.
Reece-James had a decent game but what a tart getting sent off.
Maguire got a stupid yellow and was even more stupid again to get another.
Coady played well again.
Walker played okay and I thought he was unlucky for the penalty.
Rice looked good, played well.
Phillips looked decent.
Mings looked shaky.

It was our attack which looked out of place. Kane was awful. Mount needs to look before he crosses and Rashford played with his head down.

When Calvert-Lewin came on he made a big impact. Can't say the same for Henderson or Sancho.

I don't think Southgate knows how to chase a game. Why were we passing it around with 5 mins to go?

I think Southgate feels by having two defensive midfielders it should give creative intent to everyone else but it seems the gap between defence and attack is too big and somehow our forwards look like they've never trained together before.

End of the day it was Maguire who lost us the game. If it wasn't for that we probably would have won. Can't blame the manager too much when a man gets sent off. Especially given the referees awful performance.