ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

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ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:43 pm

Statement from Burnley FC Supporters Groups on the current topics of Pay Per View, Season Ticket Options and Project Big Picture

See link
https://www.uptheclarets.com/statement- ... ig-picture
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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by randomclaret2 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:10 pm

Its " One club for All " dont forget folks ...
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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by TVC15 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:27 pm

Well said on all 3 subjects CT.
I think the views are definitely representative of the people I know who support the club.
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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by elwaclaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:39 pm

Very good that CT
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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by aclaretinstevenage » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:51 pm

Good article. I concur with all the views expressed in the article.
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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:53 pm

Can I point out that the statement is from Burnley FC Supporters Groups who have sought views from the supporters club members. I've played my part I would say though.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by UnderSeige » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:28 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:43 pm
Statement from Burnley FC Supporters Groups on the current topics of Pay Per View, Season Ticket Options and Project Big Picture

See link
https://www.uptheclarets.com/statement- ... ig-picture
£14.95 is extremely poor value for money. Especially so since it is the screening of 'behind closed door' type matches. Several fans on another thread have said that these 'behind closed door matches' are putting them off football to some extent.

Could it be that the Premieer League/TV Companies/Clubs are testing the waters to see if they can get away with it?

If they get away with it then when football returns to normal this could be the start of £14.95 box office games for the foreseeable future. Perhaps next season it would rise to £17.95 then £19.95 and then, in two or three years time all Premiership Matches would be screened for upwards of £20 each.

There comes a point where football greed soaks the fans so much that they turn away in droves.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:32 pm

UnderSeige wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:28 pm
£14.95 is extremely poor value for money. Especially so since it is the screening of 'behind closed door' type matches. Several fans on another thread have said that these 'behind closed door matches' are putting them off football to some extent.

Could it be that the Premieer League/TV Companies/Clubs are testing the waters to see if they can get away with it?

If they get away with it then when football returns to normal this could be the start of £14.95 box office games for the foreseeable future. Perhaps next season it would rise to £17.95 then £19.95 and then, in two or three years time all Premiership Matches would be screened for upwards of £20 each.

There comes a point where football greed soaks the fans so much that they turn away in droves.
Box Office has always worked for boxing but Sky tried it with football a good few years ago. The uptake was minimal and they scrapped it. The one thing that came through loud and clear from our supporters club members was not having to pay to see the non-televised games but the actual price put on them. I've been asked today by national supporters group reps what I thought was a reasonable price. Some say it should be less than a fiver but I do think anything north of £10 is very much too expensive.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by Wokingclaret » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:34 pm

Good piece

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by aggi » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:59 pm

I entirely missed Dyche's comments on PPV:

He said: “I think with what’s going on in world, if that is a way of balancing what is appropriate for the TV and media, I can’t see that big a problem with it.

“Only in the sense that if you’re a family and you regularly go to watch football…then for what’s going on in the world at the moment, to have football back, on your screen, in the safety of your home, doing all the right things, then do you know what? I’m bound to be biased because I’m in it and I love the game, so therefore would I pay it? Yes I would.

“Is it a challenge for some families? I’m sure it is, particularly with what’s going on. But I’m only speaking as a football fan, and for me, then I would, yes, I’d pay that and sit with my family and hopefully enjoy a game.”


and the Big Picture

“What seems to be the narrative is the top six having most of the decision-making power.

“If you are talking about looking after everyone in the lower leagues, then in theory, to look after the Premier League, you share that power.

“So therefore, in possible terms, they should say OK, we want to look after them but we are going to share that power across the league, simply because everyone’s earned the right to be in the Premier League. We deserve to be there, we’ve proved that.

“I think it’s fair to say everyone should have a say, everyone should have their agreed moments of who gets what for what reason. And if that can work in the bigger picture – obviously it hasn’t worked in this case – then I’m sure everyone will be willing to play their part.”

Dyche added: “It’s finding that balance, the right way of doing it that all parties can buy into.

“I played in the lower leagues – do I want them to suffer? No I don’t. If there can be a way found from all parties, whether it’s the Government, the Premier League, or football in general, then I hope somehow a way can be found.”

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:29 pm

Have to say I was very disappointed with Dyche’s comments on PPV today but he shouldn’t really be asked those questions by one of the broadcasters involved. He said he’s a football fan but I don’t think it’s possible for him to be aware of supporter issues.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:30 pm

With regards to PPV - it has been clearly stated that the Service Providers - Sky and BT - set the price and refused to offer the service at anything different. they want to protect the value of their own offering and will be charging the Premier League a fee for the service.

From that point forward clubs, whether comfortable or uncomfortable with the price point had a simple choice - give fans the opportunity to watch a behind close doors game not scheduled for TV or don't give them the opportunity. Given the huge outcry from fan's at the start of the season it was always going to be voted in as the only option, though apparently Leicester still voted against.

Things to remember:
- It is Premier League policy to repeat the party line once a decision has been made - If anything the events since Sunday have re-affirmed that in the 2 official Statements that the Premier League made on PBF - This is actually a good thing from a business perspective
- There was never going to be another supplier of PPV this season, the hope is that this contract and the fees earned will prevent the need for Domestic rebates this season. These broadcasters have repeatedly stated that any other form of broadcast of these games would lead directly to rebates being sought, as the broadcasters believed it would dilute the value of their service offering.

Things to hope for
- The real issue of clubs such as ours having a disproportionate number of games on PPV will be addressed and the numbers of such appearances are levelled out (a lot will be dependent on how revenues are split vis-a-vis the facilities fees)
- The whole thing tanks as people refuse to pay and PPV together with the inevitable "fair share" of revenue pleas from the impoverished big six disappears from our lives for at least a few years

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:32 pm

Those service providers have said they did not set the price. Leicester didn’t vote against PPV either, they voted against the price.

Work continues on this at fan level.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by randomclaret2 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:34 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:29 pm
Have to say I was very disappointed with Dyche’s comments on PPV today but he shouldn’t really be asked those questions by one of the broadcasters involved. He said he’s a football fan but I don’t think it’s possible for him to be aware of supporter issues.
SD is the only voice from the club we ever hear.They seem happy to let him deal with everything media wise.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:42 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:34 pm
SD is the only voice from the club we ever hear.They seem happy to let him deal with everything media wise.
The problem though is he gets asked questions on a subject that is outside his remit. But you are right, we don’t really hear from anyone else.
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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by clarethomer » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:54 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:32 pm
Box Office has always worked for boxing but Sky tried it with football a good few years ago. The uptake was minimal and they scrapped it. The one thing that came through loud and clear from our supporters club members was not having to pay to see the non-televised games but the actual price put on them. I've been asked today by national supporters group reps what I thought was a reasonable price. Some say it should be less than a fiver but I do think anything north of £10 is very much too expensive.
I know I will come in for some fire here but I have read the statement and whilst I do appreciate that £14.95 isn't good value to a lot of people and that if we could get it at a lower cost it would be better for more people. However, the statement itself has a few areas in it which I think is worth further considerations.

Viewing options and costs.
  • You don't need to have a sky subscription to watch any of our games that are on Sky. You can pay for now tv sports day pass and watch this for £9.99, or you can get sky box office through sky and watch this on their website or the now tv app I believe - or if you have a sky subscription but no sport - you can still watch the box office on your box.
  • With BT you don't need a subscription with them either as you can watch box office on their app/website also and can pay for a one month access to all of their content - which is probably the most expensive at £25 for one month
  • You can get amazon prime for a free trial and/or £7.99 for a months access if you have already used their free trial
The cost being more to watch live for some....
  • The price is equal to all games being shown, so whilst some of our supporters are paying more than live games for this potentially. The overall value to fans at other clubs are likely to be saving money. Whilst this feels unfair to our fans, the decision wasn't made with us in mind but the overall collective fans of clubs across the league
  • As per above, the box office may be slighlty more expensive for some but overall the costs are a lot less than would be paid to see it live. Yes, the reason it is less is because the experience isn't the same (please don't confuse this point as me suggesting it's the same product, because I know it isn't)
  • It is likely that there will be an element of those concessionary season ticket holders who will live with family members who are also season ticket holders so therefore the value for those is even greater than someone who is the only ST holder in the household
At the end of the day, I get that if pressure can be applied to lower the cost, this will have wider benefits to fans and will reduce the use of illegal streams or the temptation to gather in groups against law/guidelines in place for Covid.

The irritation that I have with elements of all of this isn't the fact that I think the price represents fair value (as I would happily pay less than this if I could) but it how the narrative of this is being played out and the reasons being used to justify the supporter clubs views which make the situation sound worse are simply not always true.

My understanding is that these games were pushed to be aired because of the impossibility of paying fans being there due to Covid. Therefore these games being put on, are not aiming to be there for the masses of fans who alternatively wouldnt be paying fans in the ground but there to help assist those fans who would have gone to the game live had they been allowed.

As a Burnley fan, we know that we don't get on TV very often so it does mean that we will resort to the higher prices because we won't get the same amount of games on Sky as other clubs but those that are on, you can still get for under a tenner when they are.

If you view this move as trying to make the games available to all, regardless of whether they would have gone to a live game or not, then this is clearly priced incorrectly. Whilst this solution makes access to see our games, the affordability has been priced clearly towards those who are used to buying tickets for the live version of this event. The value/cost can be debated and whilst I am happy to pay my £15, a tenner would have been better - but it was never going to be shown for a fiver or a pittance just to allow everyone to get access imo.

The sensible option would have been to just offer all the home games to ST holders and keep the money and sort this out with Sky/BT/Amazon and give the box office opportunity for away games but we would have been in the same debate with that too.

Therefore we are left with a less than perfect solution for now but I hope that there is further evolution in this area to consider digital passes to clubs games etc which allow you to get discounts and bring the overall cost down.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by JohnMac » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:05 pm

You would think they would start scheduling Burnley Brighton, Fulham, Palace etc more over the coming months concentrate more on the 'bigger clubs' with the potential for larger numbers of PPV customers.

Fat chance of that though!
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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by randomclaret2 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:09 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:42 pm
The problem though is he gets asked questions on a subject that is outside his remit. But you are right, we don’t really hear from anyone else.
His answers then become the view of Burnley FC , for right or wrong.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by clarethomer » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:10 pm

but then all the armchair big 6 fans will cancel their subscriptions ...

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by aggi » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:30 pm

JohnMac wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:05 pm
You would think they would start scheduling Burnley Brighton, Fulham, Palace etc more over the coming months concentrate more on the 'bigger clubs' with the potential for larger numbers of PPV customers.

Fat chance of that though!
Assuming (a big assumption) that the fees that Sky are charging the clubs to show these games do actually represent costs then there is no incentive for Sky/BT to pick low appeal games for their packages. I'd be surprised if the broadcasters had given up their first option over selecting games for broadcast.
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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by Zlatan » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:36 pm

Thank you CT

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:17 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:29 pm
Have to say I was very disappointed with Dyche’s comments on PPV today but he shouldn’t really be asked those questions by one of the broadcasters involved. He said he’s a football fan but I don’t think it’s possible for him to be aware of supporter issues.
I still don’t agree with him but he makes a valid point if you are watching as a FAMILY. For us Billynomates who watch alone it is above my maximum for value. I won’t be bothering.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by ClaretAL » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:26 pm

Brilliant CT

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by bf2k » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:54 pm

Good article

Personally I don't think the £14.99 per game is too unreasonable when you compare this to the price of a matchday ticket (circa £25 each???). I suppose it depends what you are benchmarking it against.
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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by Duffer_ » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:14 pm

SD's comments on PBP are just gobbledygook. Maybe he shouldn't be asked but he certainly shouldn't answer based on that showing.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:27 pm

bf2k wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:54 pm
Good article

Personally I don't think the £14.99 per game is too unreasonable when you compare this to the price of a matchday ticket (circa £25 each???). I suppose it depends what you are benchmarking it against.
I don’t think you can compare the experience of a match day to watching on tv. I understand fit most people it is cheaper but as it happens the tv ppv is more expensive for me personally.

The initial reaction last Friday when the price was announced was one of disbelief from supporter reps right across the Premier League. Some will think it’s fine, some will consider it good value. The reason for the statement is to support the general supporter base and supporter club membership who are not at all happy about the price.

Nothing on that statement is one person’s view it is the collective view after supporters club members opinions were sought.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by Rileybobs » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:33 pm

It’s like comparing the value of a 2 week holiday in the Caribbean to a day pass at your local tanning salon.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by jrgbfc » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:36 pm

Not sure the multi millionaire Sean Dyche is best placed to answer the question on whether 15 quid is too expensive tbh.
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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by wilks_bfc » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:05 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:27 pm
I don’t think you can compare the experience of a match day to watching on tv. I understand fit most people it is cheaper but as it happens the tv ppv is more expensive for me personally.

The initial reaction last Friday when the price was announced was one of disbelief from supporter reps right across the Premier League. Some will think it’s fine, some will consider it good value. The reason for the statement is to support the general supporter base and supporter club membership who are not at all happy about the price.

Nothing on that statement is one person’s view it is the collective view after supporters club members opinions were sought.
At £15 it’s £5 cheaper than my ST cost per game
For me attending the game with family is worth more than that £5 that I would be “saving” by watching the game at home by myself so personally I don’t think it’s worth it

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by bf2k » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:20 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:27 pm
I don’t think you can compare the experience of a match day to watching on tv. I understand fit most people it is cheaper but as it happens the tv ppv is more expensive for me personally.

The initial reaction last Friday when the price was announced was one of disbelief from supporter reps right across the Premier League. Some will think it’s fine, some will consider it good value. The reason for the statement is to support the general supporter base and supporter club membership who are not at all happy about the price.

Nothing on that statement is one person’s view it is the collective view after supporters club members opinions were sought.
I totally agree it's no substitute (I don't get my wife pestering me whilst on the ground for one :)) and I do think the TV companies could have knocked their profit off this to make it a little cheaper (they would have had cameras/people at the ground anyway and they'll make money from sponsorships no doubt). However, I've listened to the widespread condemnation of the price and I thought it's not that bad. Not that bad to warrant some of the crap spouted by Jim White et el.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:23 pm

bf2k wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:20 pm
I totally agree it's no substitute (I don't get my wife pestering me whilst on the ground for one :)) and I do think the TV companies could have knocked their profit off this to make it a little cheaper (they would have had cameras/people at the ground anyway and they'll make money from sponsorships no doubt). However, I've listened to the widespread condemnation of the price and I thought it's not that bad. Not that bad to warrant some of the crap spouted by Jim White et el.
Not particularly concerned at what White has to say other than him keeping it at the forefront. The tv companies have said they are not profiteering from this, they claim it’s the clubs charging this amount. Problem is, neither clubs nor broadcasters appear to be wanting to tell the truth. Did the football supporters.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by bf2k » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:46 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:23 pm
Not particularly concerned at what White has to say other than him keeping it at the forefront. The tv companies have said they are not profiteering from this, they claim it’s the clubs charging this amount. Problem is, neither clubs nor broadcasters appear to be wanting to tell the truth. Did the football supporters.
And there's the issue, we'll never learn the truth from a football club or the broadcasters. I think anything less than £10 though wouldn't help the clubs (assuming the full £10 went to the clubs). We're constantly told reduced ticket priced matches don't attract the level of attendance to make them worthwhile so I can't see a massive uptake on this PPV, even at £10, once the novelty has worn off unfortunately.

Only answer is getting fans back on the grounds...but that's another conversation.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by dsr » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:22 am

You can always invite all the neighbours round and share the cost .... :twisted: ;)

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by aggi » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:47 pm

Interesting comments in the Athletic re: the setting of the price:

Speaking to reporters earlier this week, Premier League chief executive Richard Masters described the price as “defensible” but stressed it had been set by BT Sport and Sky Sports, as the law requires.

“We’re not the price-setters but obviously we were fully aware of the prices when we committed ourselves to this service,” said Masters.

“We think it’s a premium product — it’s got the normal Premier League production values, with pre- and post-match presentations. We’re confident in the product.”

When pressed for more detail on how the figure of £14.95 was reached, Masters said, “We are obviously aware of the commercial model that was put in place, and we had substantive conversations with BT and Sky about that, but we can’t set prices.”

But what Masters did not say is those “substantive conversations” included telling the broadcasters what the wholesale cost of each games is, which is based on how much money the clubs want to make from the games, and giving them a recommended retail price of… £14.95. As he stressed, it was then up to BT and Sky to add their operating costs and VAT, before independently deciding the retail price.

Speaking at Thursday’s launch of a new product, Marc Allera, the chief executive of BT’s consumer division, explained that his company was “pretty much just covering our costs to put these games on”.

“The vast majority of that £14.95 is the cost price to us of that game,” he said. “Our objective is to help the Premier League and the football ecosystem. Whether it’s a few thousand or a few hundred thousand it is still money that is going back into football and we’re pleased to be playing our part in that.”

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:57 pm

aggi wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:47 pm
Interesting comments in the Athletic re: the setting of the price:

Speaking to reporters earlier this week, Premier League chief executive Richard Masters described the price as “defensible” but stressed it had been set by BT Sport and Sky Sports, as the law requires.

“We’re not the price-setters but obviously we were fully aware of the prices when we committed ourselves to this service,” said Masters.

“We think it’s a premium product — it’s got the normal Premier League production values, with pre- and post-match presentations. We’re confident in the product.”

When pressed for more detail on how the figure of £14.95 was reached, Masters said, “We are obviously aware of the commercial model that was put in place, and we had substantive conversations with BT and Sky about that, but we can’t set prices.”

But what Masters did not say is those “substantive conversations” included telling the broadcasters what the wholesale cost of each games is, which is based on how much money the clubs want to make from the games, and giving them a recommended retail price of… £14.95. As he stressed, it was then up to BT and Sky to add their operating costs and VAT, before independently deciding the retail price.

Speaking at Thursday’s launch of a new product, Marc Allera, the chief executive of BT’s consumer division, explained that his company was “pretty much just covering our costs to put these games on”.

“The vast majority of that £14.95 is the cost price to us of that game,” he said. “Our objective is to help the Premier League and the football ecosystem. Whether it’s a few thousand or a few hundred thousand it is still money that is going back into football and we’re pleased to be playing our part in that.”
And interesting comment from the broadcasters yesterday who once again confirmed it was the Premier League who set the price. As for the broadcasters covering costs, the broadcasters are covering these games in any case for showing in other countries. I'd love to know what the additional costs are that justify all this.
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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by aggi » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:59 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:57 pm
And interesting comment from the broadcasters yesterday who once again confirmed it was the Premier League who set the price. As for the broadcasters covering costs, the broadcasters are covering these games in any case for showing in other countries. I'd love to know what the additional costs are that justify all this.
I would think that PPV is probably the costliest way to show it in admin terms.

It's Premier League Productions who supply the overseas broadcast, not Sky or BT. I'm not sure who does the actual filming but I'm pretty sure PLP take in raw feeds, not the mixed version you'd see for a game, so there would be costs there too.

Plus obviously the big question, what is the cut for the clubs?

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:18 pm

aggi wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:59 pm
Plus obviously the big question, what is the cut for the clubs?
From what we've been told by the broadcasters, the money is going to the clubs.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by Duffer_ » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:29 pm

It sounds like the clubs are taking the lion's share. The broadcaster costs are relatively fixed per game which means our games will have a lower recovery rate (fixed costs absorption rate) compared with games involving the Big 6. Just getting it out there before we are told to be grateful that we are effectively being subsidised by the big boys.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by aggi » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:44 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:18 pm
From what we've been told by the broadcasters, the money is going to the clubs.
Well some of it will be. It certainly won't be £14.99.

I've not done that much work in TV but I've done quite a bit in film and know that when costs start getting deducted they can quickly become quite substantial.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:53 pm

aggi wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:44 pm
Well some of it will be. It certainly won't be £14.99.

I've not done that much work in TV but I've done quite a bit in film and know that when costs start getting deducted they can quickly become quite substantial.
I've just had an update via the FSA which has come following a meeting with Sky. I can confirm that their costs are minimal.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by clarethomer » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:54 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:57 pm
And interesting comment from the broadcasters yesterday who once again confirmed it was the Premier League who set the price. As for the broadcasters covering costs, the broadcasters are covering these games in any case for showing in other countries. I'd love to know what the additional costs are that justify all this.
It's not going to change anything really though is it and with all this noise that is going on, Im not surprised any one side is opening themselves up to statements and attacks from every direction.

My guess is that the reality is that both sides would have needed to work together on financial models to a degree to work out how to spread the costs fairly across all games if charging the same price.

Whether the PL said we want you to give us, say, £10 for each viewer, and then the broadcasters went away to work out their costs and said on the modelled viewer numbers of 'x' our cost will be £4.95 to cover our costs. Therefore you will need to price games at £14.95 for us to cover our costs and you to get the required commercials. They both agreed this was OK. I presume these costs are for having pre-post content/presenters who would normally not be doing that role in the domestic market.

Who has set the price? The PL say it was the brodcaster because they came back with the final price. The Broadcaster says that our costs are fixed, so the price has been set by the PL working out how much they need from it as this is just about how much revenue they need to profit from something that is happening regardless of whether we show it, or not.

Either way you seem to still miss the point that this isn't an exercise to open up our games to the mass market like abroad. This is a commercial arrangement to provide season ticket holders and fans who would normally go to live games the opportunity to still watch them. There is nothing in this which suggests it was about maximising viewing numbers.

Each club can now in good conscience say - we opened up games to those who would normally pay to come and watch them. They don't have to answer to those fans who wouldn't bother paying.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by Leisure » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:18 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:18 pm
From what we've been told by the broadcasters, the money is going to the clubs.
Does anyone know - A) if clubs were able to vote against the £14.95 charge? B) If the answer to A is yes, did any clubs do so?, C) What options were open to clubs you may have voted against? and D) if there was a vote, how many had to be I favour for the charge to be carried?

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by Leisure » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:27 pm

aggi wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:44 pm
Well some of it will be. It certainly won't be £14.99.

I've not done that much work in TV but I've done quite a bit in film and know that when costs start getting deducted they can quickly become quite substantial.
So if production costs are say £10, the clubs will be making very little.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:57 pm

Leisure wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:18 pm
Does anyone know - A) if clubs were able to vote against the £14.95 charge? B) If the answer to A is yes, did any clubs do so?, C) What options were open to clubs you may have voted against? and D) if there was a vote, how many had to be I favour for the charge to be carried?
Clarettony stated above that Leicester voted against the price.
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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by Quickenthetempo » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:25 pm

Leisure wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:27 pm
So if production costs are say £10, the clubs will be making very little.
At a guess it will be £5 each club then the £4.95 is made up of costs and Vat.

Unless all the clubs are pooling the lot and sharing it out equally?
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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by aggi » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:29 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:53 pm
I've just had an update via the FSA which has come following a meeting with Sky. I can confirm that their costs are minimal.
It'd be interesting to quantify what minimal is.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:37 pm

Leisure wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:18 pm
Does anyone know - A) if clubs were able to vote against the £14.95 charge? B) If the answer to A is yes, did any clubs do so?, C) What options were open to clubs you may have voted against? and D) if there was a vote, how many had to be I favour for the charge to be carried?
A - Yes
B - 1, Leicester
C -none, vote lost
D - 14
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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by Papabendi » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:25 am

As with a lot of things, the answer to the retail price question will lie inbetween the two respective party's answers.

I work in the field of content rights, and the PL saying that they cannot control the retail price, as the wholesaler of the rights, rings true. They could only do this if they were in the business of directly distributing the rights themselves.

However, as a wholesaler of the rights, whilst not directly controlling the retail price, they can have a significant influence on it by setting their wholesale price at a certain level. It will then be up to the broadcasters to add on their own costs, margin and VAT.

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Re: ARTICLE: Statement on PPV, Season Tickets and Project Big Picture

Post by BabylonClaret » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:51 pm

The point about costs is somewhat moot. These games are all filmed and already sold elsewhere in the world. Presumably recouping costs. The costs recouped from pay per view is very much icing on cake for a good part.

If they'd allowed it to be distributed via clubs it could be controlled and not jeopardise any rights abroad. That way we could know that any profits in the ppv was at least pushing through to clubw

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