Good point. I must admit I didn’t know that dangerous play was only punished by an IDFK so I stand corrected.dsr wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:44 amUnless I'm wrong and the commentators are right, dangerous play is still only an indirect free kick. The commentators were so determined that it ought to be a penalty that I thought the law must have changed, but I've checked and it appears not; it was just the commentators being appallingly unprofessional.
But that means VAR wouldn't be relevant because VAR doesn't assess indirect free kicks unless the possible offence immediately leads to a goal.
Todays football
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Re: What Manes disallowed goal clearly tells us.....
Re: What Manes disallowed goal clearly tells us.....
It's weird, man. It sometimes works, but there seems to be at least two or three instances every weekend in which VAR somehow compounds some otherwise forgivable (if we're being kind given the pace of the game) refereeing mistakes.Rileybobs wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:46 amHowever the referee didn’t actually blow his whistle until after Pickford’s challenge. So how can they deem the challenge to be unpublishable. Wasn’t Richarliason sent off in the same match, by the same referee, for a challenge that took place after the referee had blown for a foul?
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Re: Todays football
Still trying to work out the clash between these two?
Re: What Manes disallowed goal clearly tells us.....
I think you’re on to something here. After all, Jesus also stumbled whilst trying to claim a cross.Cheshireclaret wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:48 amExactly. Things have become so complicated and coloured by regulation that they lose sight of common sense. If that challenge happens in the midfield area by an outfield player, it’s a straight red. If, after an offside whistle Pickford were to jump up and punch van Dijk it’s a straight red. The ball being dead is irrelevant around a player being out of control. He was out of control and could have snapped van Dijk in half.
Maybe it’s because it was Pickford and Southgate had a word and reminded them, he is in fact the second coming of Christ?
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Re: What Manes disallowed goal clearly tells us.....
It works both ways, there were also thousands of attacks that were stopped for offside that weren't offside if VAR had been around.kenyon6923 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:57 pmOver the seasons before VAR there were thousands of goals scored "that weren't goals" if VAR had been around.
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Re: What Manes disallowed goal clearly tells us.....
BrilliantCheshireclaret wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:48 amExactly. Things have become so complicated and coloured by regulation that they lose sight of common sense. If that challenge happens in the midfield area by an outfield player, it’s a straight red. If, after an offside whistle Pickford were to jump up and punch van Dijk it’s a straight red. The ball being dead is irrelevant around a player being out of control. He was out of control and could have snapped van Dijk in half.
Maybe it’s because it was Pickford and Southgate had a word and reminded them, he is in fact the second coming of Christ?
Re: What Manes disallowed goal clearly tells us.....
VAR has made the referees job easy at times. One problem with it is no discretion at all. Its fixed and frankly its ruining the game for me.Rileybobs wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:22 amYeah that’s true. The reason is you can forgive officials for getting marginal decisions wrong, well I can. But when they make such a dog’s dinner out of it with the evidence to hand, and what seems like a long time to make the call, it’s far less forgivable. Why wasn’t Walker’s high foot punished in the City v Arsenal game, for example?
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Re: What Manes disallowed goal clearly tells us.....
VAR would work if you didn’t have inept officials in charge of it. The same referees making the same mistakes even with the benefit of slow motion and multi camera angles.
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Re: What Manes disallowed goal clearly tells us.....
Ruining the game for me to SU,suppose we better get used to it,its here to stay and will probably get worse,can see many people turning their backs on football if its allowed to continue,VAR totally ruined a fantastic Merseyside Derby yesterday.
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Re: What Manes disallowed goal clearly tells us.....
Ironic that level used to be offside but they changed it to on at the onset of the "make football more spectacular/more goals" era. Now we've got fewer goals.
Re: What Manes disallowed goal clearly tells us.....
You mean 'in the opinion of the referee...' That phrase has I believe been removed from the Laws.Spiral wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:08 amThey've rushed to make the top of the arm not-handball to stop some ridiculous penalties being given and in the process have made it a playable part of the body, thus the offside for Mane's goal. A better solution would be to accept that some rules in football are a bit weird and contradictory, making the top of the arm legal when contending a penalty or free kick (handball) decision, and not-playable when adjudicating offside. That kind of contradiction is practical. Being absolutist about what part of the arm is playable has caused the problem here, and it could be addressed with a bit of a more nuance in the handball laws. This would work because offside decisions don't concern themselves with which part of the body a player eventually controls the ball with, only which parts of the body fall behind or in front of the offside line.
There was always going to be a gap between 'consistency' and 'common sense'. In the days of referees opinions we got mostly common sense but also contradictions, a lack of consistency. Now, since the large increase in televised football, probably more accurately called money, in the game, there is a bigger demand for consistency. The result is we are tying ourselves in knots to achieve something that just isn't possible.
This user liked this post: Ashingtonclaret46
Re: What Manes disallowed goal clearly tells us.....
Wasn't Richarlison sent off for a challenge after the whistle had already been blown for another offenceSpiral wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:42 amOr Pickford's legs-akimbo finisher move on Van Dijk's knee? We're told that the phase in play was offside, and so subsequent offences don't count (or that everything that happens after the offside movement doesn't count, or something...I don't know anymore, because the flags don't go up right away), but if in a lull in play in between the whistle a player jumped into another's knee like that he's be gone. He wasn't spared a red because it wasn't a red card challenge - it was - he was spared because the refs somehow had it in their heads that offences outside the whistle don't/can't happen, or something. It wasn't a tactical foul, it was reckless play.
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Re: What Manes disallowed goal clearly tells us.....
Still put it down to the way we use VAR
I would do away with lines across the pitch, a linesman doesn’t have any lines to use. If the ref can't see an obvious offside with his naked eye, even on replay, the goal should stand. A toe here, an armpit there, it makes a mockery of the game, which imo is the intention of the establishment in the first place, to make VAR fail so that they can get rid of it.
I would do away with lines across the pitch, a linesman doesn’t have any lines to use. If the ref can't see an obvious offside with his naked eye, even on replay, the goal should stand. A toe here, an armpit there, it makes a mockery of the game, which imo is the intention of the establishment in the first place, to make VAR fail so that they can get rid of it.
Re: What Manes disallowed goal clearly tells us.....
Agree but unfortunately that makes just too much sense for the powers that be.dsr wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:37 amI don't know whether the current law makers have changed this on purpose or if they are too stupid to realise they have changed it at all, but changed it they have. All they need do to put it right is to stop drawing lines on the screen and look at the picture with a linesman's eye. Was Mane level? Yes he was. The goal stands. It's quick, it keeps the law the same as it has been for 30 years, and it fulfills the original aim of the rule change in that it gives the forward an extra half yard to play in.
Re: What Manes disallowed goal clearly tells us.....
Wasn't Mane sent off for a high boot a season ago, yet Walker is allowed the same type of high boot challenge?
No action for Pickfords assault as the whistle had gone.
Richarlison whistle has gone but bugger it we will send him off.
As for the two off sides, if it wasn't for the fact I don't like Liverpool I would be somewhat perplexed as it is I will just stick with,
Ben Mee plays a ball like Walker did, Red Card
Pope assaults VVD after the whistle has gone, Red Card
Anyone v BFC is on side unless your grannies dad has a signed letter saying it isn't onside submitted 3 weeks in advance
VAR useless, pointless and ruining football at the moment.
No action for Pickfords assault as the whistle had gone.
Richarlison whistle has gone but bugger it we will send him off.
As for the two off sides, if it wasn't for the fact I don't like Liverpool I would be somewhat perplexed as it is I will just stick with,
Ben Mee plays a ball like Walker did, Red Card
Pope assaults VVD after the whistle has gone, Red Card
Anyone v BFC is on side unless your grannies dad has a signed letter saying it isn't onside submitted 3 weeks in advance
VAR useless, pointless and ruining football at the moment.
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Re: What Manes disallowed goal clearly tells us.....
Can somebody work out what division we'd be in, if all goals like that were disallowed?
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Re: What Manes disallowed goal clearly tells us.....
The whistle hadn’t gone when Pickford challenged VVD.vinrogue wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:25 amWasn't Mane sent off for a high boot a season ago, yet Walker is allowed the same type of high boot challenge?
No action for Pickfords assault as the whistle had gone.
Richarlison whistle has gone but bugger it we will send him off.
As for the two off sides, if it wasn't for the fact I don't like Liverpool I would be somewhat perplexed as it is I will just stick with,
Ben Mee plays a ball like Walker did, Red Card
Pope assaults VVD after the whistle has gone, Red Card
Anyone v BFC is on side unless your grannies dad has a signed letter saying it isn't onside submitted 3 weeks in advance
VAR useless, pointless and ruining football at the moment.
Re: What Manes disallowed goal clearly tells us.....
This season so far has seen significantly more goals per game than any other (in the PL).basil6345789 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:44 amIronic that level used to be offside but they changed it to on at the onset of the "make football more spectacular/more goals" era. Now we've got fewer goals.
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Re: What Manes disallowed goal clearly tells us.....
Everything that happened in that game involving the officiating sums up what a pathetic state the game has been allowed to descend into. The authorities are so determined to make var work they are blind to its failings. How Pickford goes completely unpunished is farcical even if the whistle had gone.
Re: Todays football
Fulham miss penalty still 0-0
Re: Todays football
Sheff United look all over the place at the back. So different from last season.
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Re: Todays football
0-1 Fulham
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Re: Todays football
Penalty to Blades.
Scored. 1-1
Scored. 1-1
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Re: Todays football
What do we want... a draw?
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Re: Todays football
Would be best.
Re: Todays football
Sheff united's next 3:
Liverpool
Man City
Chelsea
Liverpool
Man City
Chelsea
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Re: Todays football
Well at least we might be able to ride out the storm a bit if other teams around us are struggling as well.
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Re: Todays football
That result puts us bottom now, the only way is up.
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Re: Todays football
Penalty to Palace.
Scored.
Scored.
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Re: Todays football
That penalty decision, and others like it, are the reasons why people are turning away from the game. So sad
Re: Todays football
A good start could have vindicated the board for such a poor window. Early days but we are the only team on no points and now bottom. Brings a bit of pressure if we have another poor result on Monday.
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Re: Todays football
I've almost got to the point of not caring.
Leeds for example are where they are due to money.
Give us the money that Leeds are pi$$ing against the wall and we'd be top 6 - maybe top 4. It's pathetic and it's gradually removing the need for a manager. My sister could win the Premier League with the likes of Man City's money.
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Re: Todays football
It’s never a pen. But I hear a lot of people saying they’re giving up on the game, but they don’t.RalphCoatesComb wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:21 pmThat penalty decision, and others like it, are the reasons why people are turning away from the game. So sad
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Re: Todays football
It’s all about how good clubs are at shopping
Coaching skills come way down the list
Coaching skills come way down the list
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Re: Todays football
I disagree. Give a club enough money and they can't fail - or they shouldn't fail. The coaching and managing is secondary.SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:56 pmIt’s all about how good clubs are at shopping
Coaching skills come way down the list
Leeds have thrown £100+ million at the wall and should, IMO finish top 10, because of that. Give us £100 million? Blimey, we'd be cruising.
Some clubs are so bad, that even £100 million isn't enough. But overall, money buys success.
Re: Todays football
It does need some coaching. That's why many of the clubs who have spent millions will never get into Europe. Prior to this season Fulham and Villa had spent the best part of £250 million. One got relegated and one survived only on the last day.FactualFrank wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:25 pmI've almost got to the point of not caring.
Leeds for example are where they are due to money.
Give us the money that Leeds are pi$$ing against the wall and we'd be top 6 - maybe top 4. It's pathetic and it's gradually removing the need for a manager. My sister could win the Premier League with the likes of Man City's money.
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Re: Todays football
Of course it does. I'm not suggesting you can leave them to themselves. And there ARE clubs who are so bad, that they don't get much better.
But overall, money buys success.
And it's getting worse as time goes on. And I think it's pathetic.
We can complain about Burnley not spending this, that, and the other. But remember one thing - we're doing it the right way. We're spending what we can.
Re: Todays football
Why have David Moyes and Solksjaer both struggled at United then? Money helps obviously but it's not the be all and end all.FactualFrank wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:59 pmI disagree. Give a club enough money and they can't fail - or they shouldn't fail. The coaching and managing is secondary.
Leeds have thrown £100+ million at the wall and should, IMO finish top 10, because of that. Give us £100 million? Blimey, we'd be cruising.
Some clubs are so bad, that even £100 million isn't enough. But overall, money buys success.
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Re: Todays football
Let's see what happens when people are allowed back into the grounds.
VAR was brought in to aid referees. VAR is not the problem, the interpretation of it is the problem. Disgraceful decision by all the match officials. Wood had a much better claim for a penalty against Southampton but, we don't get penalties.
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Re: Todays football
I've said it's not the be-all. I've also said it's pathetic to fail when they have it. It should be an absolute given. It's embarrassing to fail with that sort of money.
You said why have Moyes and Solksjaer failed - you've not backed or argued the case. They are both crap managers.
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Re: Todays football
I see his wikipedia page has already been updated.
Loan return to Crystal Palace
On 10 September 2020, Batshuayi returned to Crystal Palace for his second loan until the end of the 2020–21 season. He previously played for the club on loan in the second half of the 2018–19 season.[56]
On 18 October 2020 in the game against Brighton & Hove Albion , Batshuayi dived and threw himself to ground, winning a penalty which was converted by Wilfried Zaha.
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Re: Todays football
Dunk sent off for doing a Pickford on Cahill.
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Re: Todays football
Dunk doesn’t come across as the most level headed player.
Re: Todays football
In fairness to Dunk, at least he apologised after trying to break his leg
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