Anthony Higginbotham

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Quickenthetempo
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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Quickenthetempo » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:45 am

As this thread has turned political with insults thrown around like usual on here. Would it be fair to say on summing up.

It would be nice if kids had access to food every single day in Great Britain.

The politicians out of power always vote for things that cost money and the party in power, who has to sign off the cheques votes against.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:45 am

Dy1geo wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:43 am
Are we assuming those new to claims?

If so these are the ones I really feel sorry for, I know that they can get an advance but unsure of circumstances around that.

I made the assumption that she was already in the system and that is why for that scenario I don’t have much sympathy.

Marcus Rashford was calling for the scheme to be extended to all children
There are plenty of people previously self employed or in the creative industries who have suddenly found themselves very much in that circumstance.

We are in the middle of a pandemic. Lets make sure all kids have something to eat.

How the hell is this a radical statement

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:46 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:45 am
As this thread has turned political with insults thrown around like usual on here. Would it be fair to say on summing up.

It would be nice if kids had access to food every single day in Great Britain.

The politicians out of power always vote for things that cost money and the party in power, who has to sign off the cheques votes against.
The thing is, it is hard for the Tories to claim prudence or fiscal responsibility when paying out literally billions in contracts to their friends, many of which produce very little
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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by martin_p » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:51 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:45 am
As this thread has turned political with insults thrown around like usual on here. Would it be fair to say on summing up.

It would be nice if kids had access to food every single day in Great Britain.

The politicians out of power always vote for things that cost money and the party in power, who has to sign off the cheques votes against.
It would be nice?!

In a civilised society I’d say it’s essential. If your politics has feeding children as a ‘nice to have’ the you really need to have a look at your politics!

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Foreverly Claret » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:51 am

Burnley Ace wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:28 pm
Know much money does Rashford need. He could donate £4m a year a still have plenty. Rather than let some political group run his Twitter he should put his money where his mouth is.
How do you know he hasn't done that very thing ? Wouldn't surprise me if he had .

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Foreverly Claret » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:04 pm

He's not My MP because I don't live in Burnley any more and , since my parents died , I only visit on home match days but I can remember living in Burnley when there WAS real poverty...round the Croft , Anne Street , Hebrew Lane..et al..kids with no shoes , clothes from jumble sales and , undoubtedly under fed. It's not like that now BUT there are plenty of kids who are blessed with feckless useless parents who don't have the nouse to run their lives properly .Do you punish the kids because they've got useless parents ? Anthony H will in due course be judged on his record as MP for the town..there are some things he might regret ! I've signed.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by TVC15 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:05 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:45 am
As this thread has turned political with insults thrown around like usual on here. Would it be fair to say on summing up.

It would be nice if kids had access to food every single day in Great Britain.

The politicians out of power always vote for things that cost money and the party in power, who has to sign off the cheques votes against.
Yet what you are saying is political...you description of “nice” is quite a big hint as to your views.

I’m fine in saying that if the Tories were in opposition they would not be pushing for spending money on this measure.
Whilst they are in government they choose to spend the money on other things - like billions on contracts to companies who support them like Serco.

Of course this is a political question and debate - what isn’t when it involves spending public money ?

What are you suggesting ? That somethings are not political ? Even where the 2 parties agree on areas of spend they rarely agree on the extent of support and spend

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by TheFamilyCat » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:11 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:45 am
As this thread has turned political with insults thrown around like usual on here. Would it be fair to say on summing up.

It would be nice if kids had access to food every single day in Great Britain.

The politicians out of power always vote for things that cost money and the party in power, who has to sign off the cheques votes against.
A thread about a politician has turned political? Who let that happen?
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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by bennitor » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:33 pm

It never ceases to amaze me that a lot of people's response to anything in life seeks to be punitive and often to a whole group that collectively may not deserve it.

It is a sad reflection of our society that our political discourse is so black and white and often vitriolic - just look at how this thread has gone.

Yes there will be some people who abuse any system - including support to feed our most hard up kids. But that's not a reason not to try. Why should that minority punish all the others in genuine need?

Let's actually drill down into the causes of food poverty rather than suggest getting the stew pot on (very reminiscent of the "old England in wartime" view of Brexit). It is 2020 - as a developed and supposedly nation we can simply do better.

Those causes are complex and wide ranging. From job losses to the removal of social support (Sure Start etc.) there are so many factors that have got us to where we are, so rather than punish, let's invest in how we can solve the problems. Education, support, engagement - there is no single cure. But there is one thing that's sure - support the poorest parts of society and wider society will flourish.

Don't always look to punish people. Not all of them have done wrong.
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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:34 pm

I honestly think, universal school meals would see a massive return in investment in terms of lower policing / social services cost for decades to come for that age group, however as with all social experiments it is hard to get the buy in.

It is like the man asking an old man why he plants an olive tree that he will never see any olives grow from.

Sometimes you have to have a little faith in investing for the future.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by TsarBomba » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:43 pm

I’ve spent 13 years policing some of the worst estates in the U.K. if not Europe. Real poverty and desperation.

And I can count on one hand, in all those years, the amount of times I’ve met parents that don’t give a **** about feeding their kids.

The vast, vast majority of families I deal with DO give a **** and are working multiple jobs to make ends meet.

There are a few exceptions, but nothing like the amount that many seem to perceive.

These are unprecedented times, and whilst we are in these unprecedented times, let’s take care of our most vulnerable in society.

Absolutely shameful what happened yesterday, and it’s not a society I want to live in.
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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Elizabeth » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:44 pm

Many of the comments in the last 12 hours have come from the generation that is responsible for the breakdown in society we see today.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by JohnDearyMe » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:48 pm

Rowls wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:35 pm
Nobody without some kind of eating disorder is going to starve in the UK.

This isn't a black and white case as many here have tried to portray it. It's a case of drawing a line. The line has to go somewhere.

The line has been drawn.
This is where the line should be drawn? In the midst of a pandemic that is causing so much hardship for so many people through no fault of their own?
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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by TsarBomba » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:51 pm

bennitor wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:33 pm
It never ceases to amaze me that a lot of people's response to anything in life seeks to be punitive and often to a whole group that collectively may not deserve it.

It is a sad reflection of our society that our political discourse is so black and white and often vitriolic - just look at how this thread has gone.

Yes there will be some people who abuse any system - including support to feed our most hard up kids. But that's not a reason not to try. Why should that minority punish all the others in genuine need?

Let's actually drill down into the causes of food poverty rather than suggest getting the stew pot on (very reminiscent of the "old England in wartime" view of Brexit). It is 2020 - as a developed and supposedly nation we can simply do better.

Those causes are complex and wide ranging. From job losses to the removal of social support (Sure Start etc.) there are so many factors that have got us to where we are, so rather than punish, let's invest in how we can solve the problems. Education, support, engagement - there is no single cure. But there is one thing that's sure - support the poorest parts of society and wider society will flourish.

Don't always look to punish people. Not all of them have done wrong.
Brilliant post.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:53 pm

Elizabeth wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:44 pm
Many of the comments in the last 12 hours have come from the generation that is responsible for the breakdown in society we see today.
Care to expand on that?

The younger generations seem to get blamed for everything and thanked for nothing at times. They are a very convenient punching bag and it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by aggi » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:55 pm

Elizabeth wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:44 pm
Many of the comments in the last 12 hours have come from the generation that is responsible for the breakdown in society we see today.
What I always find bizarre in these weird "the younger generation are responsible for the breakdown in society rants" is how the person posting it doesn't seem to think that previous generations had any influence on the younger generations, as if they were raised in a vacuum.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:00 pm

Elizabeth wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:44 pm
Many of the comments in the last 12 hours have come from the generation that is responsible for the breakdown in society we see today.
And yet, on the Three Tier Lockdown thread........
Elizabeth wrote:I wish people would stop generalising about old people when they haven’t a clue what they are talking about. If you want to express an opinion then do so after you’ve spent some time talking to a few of us. I can guarantee you will find out a wide range of feelings about this virus and it’s effects ...
So, Liz, is it ok to make sweeping generalisations about a particular generation, or is it not?

:?:
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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Quickenthetempo » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:01 pm

Teach me to post on another cesspit politics post on here.
I only wanted you to be nice to each other.

As a result I get my character questioned.

Leave them too it.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Burnley1989 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:13 pm

On the free school meals, when my daughter was in reception and I think year 1, they were entitled to free school meals. My daughter is a fussy devil and was the only child that chose pack lunches, it does beg the question why they do this though as I'd imagine almost all the kids parents in her class could afford to pay. Why not just give it to those that need it, that's how it was when I was at School

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:14 pm

Burnley1989 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:13 pm
On the free school meals, when my daughter was in reception and I think year 1, they were entitled to free school meals. My daughter is a fussy devil and was the only child that chose pack lunches, it does beg the question why they do this though as I'd imagine almost all the kids parents in her class could afford to pay. Why not just give it to those that need it, that's how it was when I was at School
The more means testing and the like you introduce, you tend to spend more on the mechanics / admin than you actually save.

Hence no means testing for the winter fuel allowance for example

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by martin_p » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:15 pm

Burnley1989 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:13 pm
On the free school meals, when my daughter was in reception and I think year 1, they were entitled to free school meals. My daughter is a fussy devil and was the only child that chose pack lunches, it does beg the question why they do this though as I'd imagine almost all the kids parents in her class could afford to pay. Why not just give it to those that need it, that's how it was when I was at School
There are universal free school meals available for all children up to and including Year 2. I’d agree it’s a bit of an odd one, I can’t see that a 6/7 year old is any more or less to come from a family that can’t afford to feed it than a 7/8 year old.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Rowls » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:16 pm

JohnDearyMe wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:48 pm
This is where the line should be drawn? In the midst of a pandemic that is causing so much hardship for so many people through no fault of their own?
I think the state is right to say it is the prime responsibility of parents to feed their children.

I also think it's time that blanket indiscriminate lockdowns were over and that we provided more concentrated assistance to help the vulnerable shield.

Don't think there is anything "controversial" about these opinions. They're very mainstream.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Burnley1989 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:17 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:55 pm
What I always find bizarre in these weird "the younger generation are responsible for the breakdown in society rants" is how the person posting it doesn't seem to think that previous generations had any influence on the younger generations, as if they were raised in a vacuum.
You're right, its easy to pick holes in all generations, I'm certainly glad most of the younger generation don't hold the same views I often hear from my Dads mates in their 60's and older, whilst I understand why they have those views as its the way they were brought up.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by TheFamilyCat » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:20 pm

Elizabeth wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:44 pm
Many of the comments in the last 12 hours have come from the generation that is responsible for the breakdown in society we see today.
You must have UTC+

I can't see poster's ages next to their username.

How much does the upgrade cost? Although being from the entitled generation that is responsible for the breakdown in society, I want it for free.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:21 pm

Burnley1989 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:17 pm
You're right, its easy to pick holes in all generations, I'm certainly glad most of the younger generation don't hold the same views I often hear from my Dads mates in their 60's and older, whilst I understand why they have those views as its the way they were brought up.
Increasingly those excuses wear thinner and thinner. A 60yr old today was born and raised in the 60s and 70s. Some things have rapidly changed in recent years, but increasingly people need to be called out for their ignorance, regardless of age.
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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Devils_Advocate » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:48 pm

Rowls wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:16 pm
I think the state is right to say it is the prime responsibility of parents to feed their children.
Thats not what they are saying though. On this vote the state are saying they do not see it as their responsibility to financially support schools to extend free school meals over the Christmas 2020 and Easter 2021 school holiday periods as part of their extended support packages for the current health crisis we are facing.

Now you are quite entitled to agree with them on this stance but at least have the balls to stand firmly behind it and not try and pretend yesterdays vote was anything more than the above
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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by SingaporeClarets » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:09 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:46 am
The thing is, it is hard for the Tories to claim prudence or fiscal responsibility when paying out literally billions in contracts to their friends, many of which produce very little
I think it applies to any government.

Everyone seems to have forgotten the contracts Blairite Andy Burnham gave to his mates for the PFI hospitals (to re use your words with a slight amendment - literally hundreds of billions - which left the NHS with crippling interest payments for hospitals we are still paying for many times over. When you think we've got it bad with Oberleutnant Gruber running the NHS, you just have to think about what happened with Mid Staffs and wonder if there is anyone competent out there to be health secretary. Unfortunately, all it takes its a media consultant to give Burnham the Arthur Scargill look, mock outrage and suddenly he's the man of the people, king of the north. As I said elsewhere, short memories, just like with Boris who while mayor of London was pro EU and encouraged illegal immigration to import a cheap workforce who he wanted to apply amnesty to and grant British citizenship, very far away from his election manifesto.

The point being made is people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and that's the problem with all these politicians, they are either shitting on your doorstep or making a fuss about others shitting on your doorstep when they themselves have either already **** on your doorstep or would jump at the chance to do so if they were in power.

People didn't vote for Brexit to secure fishing rights or vote for Boris because of his libertarian one nation approach to government, those disconnected from politics just saw the opportunity to do something they don't normally do and vote. The media frenzy encouraged them to go and vote for what they were not supposed to vote for and gave 2 fingers to the establishment because as every parliament has shown, whoever is in power, you will get **** on your doorstep so why not throw some of that **** back.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by RMutt » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:20 pm

SingaporeClarets wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:09 pm
I think it applies to any government.

Everyone seems to have forgotten the contracts Blairite Andy Burnham gave to his mates for the PFI hospitals (to re use your words with a slight amendment - literally hundreds of billions - which left the NHS with crippling interest payments for hospitals we are still paying for many times over. When you think we've got it bad with Oberleutnant Gruber running the NHS, you just have to think about what happened with Mid Staffs and wonder if there is anyone competent out there to be health secretary. Unfortunately, all it takes its a media consultant to give Burnham the Arthur Scargill look, mock outrage and suddenly he's the man of the people, king of the north. As I said elsewhere, short memories, just like with Boris who while mayor of London was pro EU and encouraged illegal immigration to import a cheap workforce who he wanted to apply amnesty to and grant British citizenship, very far away from his election manifesto.

The point being made is people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and that's the problem with all these politicians, they are either shitting on your doorstep or making a fuss about others shitting on your doorstep when they themselves have either already **** on your doorstep or would jump at the chance to do so if they were in power.

People didn't vote for Brexit to secure fishing rights or vote for Boris because of his libertarian one nation approach to government, those disconnected from politics just saw the opportunity to do something they don't normally do and vote. The media frenzy encouraged them to go and vote for what they were not supposed to vote for and gave 2 fingers to the establishment because as every parliament has shown, whoever is in power, you will get **** on your doorstep so why not throw some of that **** back.
This appears to be from the 'They're all as bad as one another' school of thought that seems to be common place these days. Its almost encouraging people not to vote. The problem being that those who would benefit most are often the ones who fall for the don't bother voting spiel. But as we have seen from the last ten years and the handling of the current crisis, they are not all the same.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by nil_desperandum » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:21 pm

Elizabeth wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:44 pm
Many of the comments in the last 12 hours have come from the generation that is responsible for the breakdown in society we see today.
Retired people with triple locked pensions, who - in the main, haven't lost jobs, or much income during the pandemic? ?

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:27 pm

SingaporeClarets wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:09 pm
I think it applies to any government.

Everyone seems to have forgotten the contracts Blairite Andy Burnham gave to his mates for the PFI hospitals (to re use your words with a slight amendment - literally hundreds of billions - which left the NHS with crippling interest payments for hospitals we are still paying for many times over. When you think we've got it bad with Oberleutnant Gruber running the NHS, you just have to think about what happened with Mid Staffs and wonder if there is anyone competent out there to be health secretary. Unfortunately, all it takes its a media consultant to give Burnham the Arthur Scargill look, mock outrage and suddenly he's the man of the people, king of the north. As I said elsewhere, short memories, just like with Boris who while mayor of London was pro EU and encouraged illegal immigration to import a cheap workforce who he wanted to apply amnesty to and grant British citizenship, very far away from his election manifesto.

The point being made is people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and that's the problem with all these politicians, they are either shitting on your doorstep or making a fuss about others shitting on your doorstep when they themselves have either already **** on your doorstep or would jump at the chance to do so if they were in power.

People didn't vote for Brexit to secure fishing rights or vote for Boris because of his libertarian one nation approach to government, those disconnected from politics just saw the opportunity to do something they don't normally do and vote. The media frenzy encouraged them to go and vote for what they were not supposed to vote for and gave 2 fingers to the establishment because as every parliament has shown, whoever is in power, you will get **** on your doorstep so why not throw some of that **** back.
You will have to forgive me for thinking that exceptional circumstances call for exceptional measures.

The profligacy of PFI in particular should be questioned, of course, but not just now, eh?

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:28 pm

Burnley1989 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:13 pm
On the free school meals, when my daughter was in reception and I think year 1, they were entitled to free school meals. My daughter is a fussy devil and was the only child that chose pack lunches, it does beg the question why they do this though as I'd imagine almost all the kids parents in her class could afford to pay. Why not just give it to those that need it, that's how it was when I was at School
Back in the 60s, when Harold Wilson was PM (66 or 67, I think) he introduced free school meals for all families with 2 or more children at school. I was one of those second childs so got my school dinner tokens free - handed out by the form teacher at the start of every week in of the whole class. From memory, there were only 2 or 3 of us in my class who claimed - there were other second children in the class who didn't claim. The free school meals idea was withdrawn at the next budget. I'm not sure why this was the case. I don't know whether this "universal" benefit hadn't been taken up by enough families, or whether there were other reasons why it was withdrawn. I know the country was "cap in hand" to the IMF around this time - "pound in your pocket" for anyone who remembers the 60s beyond the Beatles, Stones and the World Cup.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:34 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:21 pm
Retired people with triple locked pensions, who - in the main, haven't lost jobs, or much income during the pandemic? ?
Where do you place me, nil_d? I retired 31st March - a week after the lockdown started.

BTW, if your pension depends on the return on your defined contribution pension fund your income could have fallen significantly - mitigated, depending on your circumstances by the state pension triple lock.

I'm saving money, so far. My retirement plans were to do some travelling - I've not been anywhere so far - and don't know when I will start to book anything that involves getting on a plane.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Billy Balfour » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:34 pm

Even Farage has read the mood music. The so-called Red Wall Tories will pay a high price for subserviently following the party line on this issue.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Corky » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:39 pm

Elizabeth wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:44 pm
Many of the comments in the last 12 hours have come from the generation that is responsible for the breakdown in society we see today.
Are you sure your stew pot isn't actually a cauldron?

Jakubclaret
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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Jakubclaret » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:42 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:11 pm
A thread about a politician has turned political? Who let that happen?
Strange that! The issue remaining on track usually topics are detracted with DIY shops & hanging gallows, the irony will be lost no doubt.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by bennitor » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:48 pm

The fact that we are even discussing whether or not to provide support to these children and families demonstrates in itself that we have lost our way as a nation.

I don't think anyone would argue it isn't a parents' responsibility to feed their children, however by the same token it is the government's responsibility to provide support for its citizens. It's therefore not fair to call out the parents for not providing the food whilst at the same time ignoring each and every occasion where the state has dropped the ball in terms of support for the most vulnerable in society.

It's ironic really, because it is precisely these early years interventions that, in the long term, will give these children the best chance to succeed - and not become a burden on the state as adults. You have to intervene with support at some point otherwise the cycle is perpetuated.
These 2 users liked this post: ZizkovClaret longsidepies

Burnley1989
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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Burnley1989 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:02 pm

Corky wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:39 pm
Are you sure your stew pot isn't actually a cauldron?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Burnley1989 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:05 pm

bennitor wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:48 pm
The fact that we are even discussing whether or not to provide support to these children and families demonstrates in itself that we have lost our way as a nation.

I don't think anyone would argue it isn't a parents' responsibility to feed their children, however by the same token it is the government's responsibility to provide support for its citizens. It's therefore not fair to call out the parents for not providing the food whilst at the same time ignoring each and every occasion where the state has dropped the ball in terms of support for the most vulnerable in society.

It's ironic really, because it is precisely these early years interventions that, in the long term, will give these children the best chance to succeed - and not become a burden on the state as adults. You have to intervene with support at some point otherwise the cycle is perpetuated.
In some cases we are going to force your parents to stop working, then stop the free meals. You hear of these single mums multiple jobs to pay their way, the sort of jobs that probably aren't available at the moment. The more I think about it the angrier I get

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Spijed » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:14 pm

Thatcher the milk snatcher ;)

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by SingaporeClarets » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:20 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:27 pm
You will have to forgive me for thinking that exceptional circumstances call for exceptional measures.

The profligacy of PFI in particular should be questioned, of course, but not just now, eh?
I completely agree with the posts here about tackling the root causes like poverty, alcohol abuse, drug abuse and allocating sufficient money to do so will ultimately benefit the nation because once those issues are solved, a lot of the issues we are talking about will not be valid. Unfortunately for many many reasons, the most vulnerable are not getting the support they need and social services are just balancing a house of cards rather than providing a house of bricks.

If we are going to spend the money and accept that schools can stay open, the money would be much better spent on holiday clubs where breakfast, dinner and tea is provided and driven on activities that can help these kids aim to do well at school, stay off drugs, get good jobs and to use the latest buzzword "level up". We're not just then feeding these kids, we're helping them whether their parents care or not to get out of poverty. If we are just handing out food vouchers it's not enough.

You cannot though start using politics to blame the Tories for behaving one way when all have been culpable, if you don't want to talk about Burnham and his mates still receiving massive interest payments then fine but don't shut down this point to hide the fact that Labour are no better and let's at least admit how all sides have equally behaved appallingly giving money to their mates and all have demonstrated inaction on resolving the root causes of poverty and how all these drug gangs are keeping people in poverty.

For how much longer is Heroin going to be a major contributor to all the social problems in Burnley, it's the elephant in the room.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Siddo » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:21 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:21 pm
Retired people with triple locked pensions, who - in the main, haven't lost jobs, or much income during the pandemic? ?
A 66 year old guy left the Company last year. No savings, no private pension, lived all his life in rented accommodation, opted out of the government scheme as he couldn't afford to pay his contributions. His sole income is the state pension of £163 per week.

He has been back on numerous occasions asking for a job. He cannot afford to live on his pension alone.

Please don't assume that pensioners are rich. Not everyone has a property left to them or had a good job with commensurate benefits.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by martin_p » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:23 pm

Rowls wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:16 pm
I think the state is right to say it is the prime responsibility of parents to feed their children.

I also think it's time that blanket indiscriminate lockdowns were over and that we provided more concentrated assistance to help the vulnerable shield.

Don't think there is anything "controversial" about these opinions. They're very mainstream.
And what’s your plan when the NHS is overwhelmed as it inevitably will be?

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Jakubclaret » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:27 pm

bennitor wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:48 pm
The fact that we are even discussing whether or not to provide support to these children and families demonstrates in itself that we have lost our way as a nation.

I don't think anyone would argue it isn't a parents' responsibility to feed their children, however by the same token it is the government's responsibility to provide support for its citizens. It's therefore not fair to call out the parents for not providing the food whilst at the same time ignoring each and every occasion where the state has dropped the ball in terms of support for the most vulnerable in society.

It's ironic really, because it is precisely these early years interventions that, in the long term, will give these children the best chance to succeed - and not become a burden on the state as adults. You have to intervene with support at some point otherwise the cycle is perpetuated.
Old true saying you have to help yourself first before anybody else will help you, the discussion seems to be centralised whether people do genuinely need help, I was sat down the other day on a bench in a shopping precinct & a young child was pestering his mum for a sausage roll from Gregg's as he was hungry the mother told him she couldn't afford whilst engrossed on a flagship Samsung mobile top of the range, until people sort there priorities out you are p155ing into the wind.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Bigbopper » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:29 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:21 pm
Retired people with triple locked pensions, who - in the main, haven't lost jobs, or much income during the pandemic? ?
Ah, the triple-locked state pension that gives you £800 every 4 weeks compared to the up to £2500 per month furlough benefit..Pensioners may not have lost income or jobs but have lost their lives during the pandemic partly due to the actions of younger age groups.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Inchy » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:31 pm

BFB54E4F-D8B1-4DF1-BE8B-D2E24C18C9F0.png
BFB54E4F-D8B1-4DF1-BE8B-D2E24C18C9F0.png (1.29 MiB) Viewed 2283 times

Man of the people

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by bennitor » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:42 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:27 pm
Old true saying you have to help yourself first before anybody else will help you, the discussion seems to be centralised whether people do genuinely need help, I was sat down the other day on a bench in a shopping precinct & a young child was pestering his mum for a sausage roll from Gregg's as he was hungry the mother told him she couldn't afford whilst engrossed on a flagship Samsung mobile top of the range, until people sort there priorities out you are p155ing into the wind.
And for this anecdote someone will be right along to provide you with one about a single, working parent who still has to utilise food banks. Which is why you have to look at the bigger picture and evidence base.

There were 4.2 million children living in poverty in the UK in 2018-19. That's 30 per cent of children, or nine in a classroom of 30 (cpag.org.uk) - so rather than looking at that mother and her refusal to buy the sausage roll, dig deeper into the reasoning behind it. What financial education did she receive at school, what were her wider attainment levels and if they were low, why?

You have to be forensic in your assessments and get past the anecdotes and face values of situations. She may have her priorities wrong but why is the question that's important for society.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by TheFamilyCat » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:46 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:27 pm
Old true saying you have to help yourself first before anybody else will help you, the discussion seems to be centralised whether people do genuinely need help, I was sat down the other day on a bench in a shopping precinct & a young child was pestering his mum for a sausage roll from Gregg's as he was hungry the mother told him she couldn't afford whilst engrossed on a flagship Samsung mobile top of the range, until people sort there priorities out you are p155ing into the wind.
You must not have been social distancing if you could see exactly which model of phone she had.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by martin_p » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:46 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:27 pm
Old true saying you have to help yourself first before anybody else will help you, the discussion seems to be centralised whether people do genuinely need help, I was sat down the other day on a bench in a shopping precinct & a young child was pestering his mum for a sausage roll from Gregg's as he was hungry the mother told him she couldn't afford whilst engrossed on a flagship Samsung mobile top of the range, until people sort there priorities out you are p155ing into the wind.
Are you a parent? If you are you’re not telling me you haven’t trotted out the line ‘I haven’t got any money’ as an easy get out when you’re being pestered to buy something your child doesn’t need? It doesn’t work forever, although it seems it still fools you!

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by martin_p » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:48 pm

Inchy wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:31 pm
BFB54E4F-D8B1-4DF1-BE8B-D2E24C18C9F0.png


Man of the people
He clearly doesn’t think the school holidays will be ‘troubled times’.

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Re: Anthony Higginbotham

Post by Jakubclaret » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:01 pm

martin_p wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:46 pm
Are you a parent? If you are you’re not telling me you haven’t trotted out the line ‘I haven’t got any money’ as an easy get out when you’re being pestered to buy something your child doesn’t need? It doesn’t work forever, although it seems it still fools you!
The child looked hungry, you might find it easier to blame this present government & conveniently overlook other more simple explanations for children being denied square nutrional meals, yes I'm a parent & I know when I see hungry children & samsung S20 ultras.

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