Anthony Higginbotham

[Rileybobs]

Your word Riley in your first response to my opening post on this thread. And you expect me to take you seriously

You mean the one where I posed the question if an entire generation can be classed as entitled, then surely the generation that brought up and educated them must bear some responsibility?

I don’t expect you to take me seriously. I don’t care what someone who shows disrespect to an entire generation of people thinks about me.

[Elizabeth]

No , the one where you were again trying to be a smartass.
When you drop this act I will be happy to drop the Captain and discuss things properly with you.

[ksrclaret]

So Elizabeth admits to being happy to drop the Captain, and yet it's Riley who was being disrespectful towards him?

He's 100 years old for Christ's sake! Shame on you.

[Rileybobs]

No , the one where you were again trying to be a smartass.
When you drop this act I will be happy to drop the Captain and discuss things properly with you.

Ah. Now I remember.

When I responded to this;

’ We survived those difficult times and I suggest those that are in difficult times now tighten their belts and find some old fashioned ways to feed themselves’

With; Cannibalism?

It was a very lighthearted joke, you need to lighten up.

This isn’t an act so you’re going to have to keep dragging up Captain Tom every time I respond to you.

Here’s a thought. If you don’t like people challenging your ridiculous views, then don’t publish them.

[Lowbankclaret]

Ah. Now I remember.

When I responded to this;

’ We survived those difficult times and I suggest those that are in difficult times now tighten their belts and find some old fashioned ways to feed themselves’

With; Cannibalism?

It was a very lighthearted joke, you need to lighten up.

This isn’t an act so you’re going to have to keep dragging up Captain Tom every time I respond to you.

Here’s a thought. If you don’t like people challenging your ridiculous views, then don’t publish them.

My granddad once showed me a picture of him during the Second World War. He was stood next a horse drawn trailer, the trailer had a rack on it, on it hung around 600 rabbits. Most of the villages around survived the war eating free rabbit.

Not sure how that would go down now.

[Rileybobs]

My granddad once showed me a picture of him during the Second World War. He was stood next a horse drawn trailer, the trailer had a rack on it, on it hung around 600 rabbits. Most of the villages around survived the war eating free rabbit.

Not sure how that would go down now.

Probably not too well because aren’t at war and we have the resources to feed unfortunate children by other means. British people in the Second World War also had to kill Germans, something else which probably wouldn’t go down too well now.

[Elizabeth]

I do have a sense of humour when something’s funny.

[Lowbankclaret]

Probably not too well because aren’t at war and we have the resources to feed unfortunate children by other means. British people in the Second World War also had to kill Germans, something else which probably wouldn’t go down too well now.

I suggest we are at war to Covid.
We don’t have the resources, this gov is currently borrowing more than the one in the Second World War and someone is going to have to pay for it.

[Bordeauxclaret]

I do have a sense of humour when something’s funny.

Mustn’t be Ringo then.

[Jakubclaret]

Probably not too well because aren’t at war and we have the resources to feed unfortunate children by other means. British people in the Second World War also had to kill Germans, something else which probably wouldn’t go down too well now.

I don't think anybody killing anybody would go down too well to be honest, it's likely a murder charge would be in the offing.

[dougcollins]

I had no idea who Anthony Higginbotham is (I don't come from Burnley). I had to look him up.

I hope all the people of Burnley who were conned into voting Conservative via the Brexit route now know what they actually voted for.

[Bordeauxclaret]

I don't think anybody killing anybody would go down too well to be honest, it's likely a murder charge would be in the offing.

We could have a right good vote on how to punish them though couldn’t we.

[Jakubclaret]

We could have a right good vote on how to punish them though couldn’t we.

If you want a sensible debate about this we could this on a separate thread, now's not the time nor the place, if you just want to try to ridicule or belittle I'm not interested, the public should have the right to decide on serious offences.

[Bordeauxclaret]

It definitely wouldn’t be sensible.

[dougcollins]

Oh, and apologies for actually discussing the O/P.

[Lowbankclaret]

I had no idea who Anthony Higginbotham is (I don't come from Burnley). I had to look him up.

I hope all the people of Burnley who were conned into voting Conservative via the Brexit route now know what they actually voted for.

Whilst I don’t support him, he has put himself out there in the public eye on social media open to criticism. He said he would phone me on the RR issue which he did and left me a message. I was driving but he has not phoned me back despite several emails.

[dougcollins]

He toed the party line, no more, no less.

His Tory career is all that matters.

[AndrewJB]

Well she was useless and as above her behaviour at the count was a disgrace.

Useless is such an elastic term. Whenever I asked people I know who called her that what she’d done wrong, I was told (with one exception) that “she haS done nothing for the people of Burnley.” That’s as far as I was able to get, so among a handful of older and not very politically minded Burnley voters, the social media attacks on her (which probably informed conversations too) worked. I agree it’s unedifying to see someone strip off, if that’s what she did.

As for the incumbent, I think voting against feeding hungry children isn’t a good look, and nor is faithfully copying out the Cummings memo in response. But still too early to tell.

[bfccrazy]

Useless is such an elastic term. Whenever I asked people I know who called her that what she’d done wrong, I was told (with one exception) that “she haS done nothing for the people of Burnley.” That’s as far as I was able to get, so among a handful of older and not very politically minded Burnley voters, the social media attacks on her (which probably informed conversations too) worked. I agree it’s unedifying to see someone strip off, if that’s what she did.

As for the incumbent, I think voting against feeding hungry children isn’t a good look, and nor is faithfully copying out the Cummings memo in response. But still too early to tell.

I personally preferred his last video like this a few weeks ago.....

“I haven’t voted to end Furlough as the Labour Party are trying to falsely say ...... I voted for it to not continue”



Glad he cleared that up well.

[AndrewJB]

I’m surprised about social media as that is normally a medium that’s dominated by Labour. What would you say are Julie Coopers top 3 achievements for Burnley?

I don’t live in Burnley, so I can’t speak with first hand experience. When I saw the campaign against her I looked up her voting record, and there was nothing there that stood out as bad:

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25283 ... nley/votes

When I questioned people about her - assuming there were specific reasons why she wasn’t liked; haughty in her surgery? Didn’t respond to letters? Never attended Parliament? There can be lots of reasons why someone isn’t liked, nobody had anything specific. Not to say there aren’t bad points, but they’ve never been set out for me.

On social media there are quite a few Facebook pages heavily populated by Tory thinking people.

[AndrewJB]

Andrew , kids don’t have to go to Florida for a holiday so there is no ‘the clock is ticking’ about it. Such a wet way of looking at this and typical of this entitlement attitude that exists in today’s society caused by the recent and current generation

There’s entitlement in every generation. In fact you could say it’s entitlement that won so many hard won gains for the vast majority of people over the ruling classes. Thankfully now we have the Human Rights Act which sets out what our entitlements are as people. If you want to see outrageous entitlement, then we’ve got Cummings and his eye test. Weinstein and a lot of other rich b’stards who’ve felt entitled to use women who’ve worked for them, and more. The entitlement of people with power is far more corrosive than a family wanting to holiday in Florida (and paying for it themselves).

[Elizabeth]

Andrew you are encouraging people taking out loans to take their kids to Florida instead of saving the money because it’s quicker and the kids might miss out otherwise,
Encouraging people to go into debt for such reasons is grossly irresponsible.
Will such children be at a disadvantage if they don’t get these holidays to Florida?
What is wrong with a more affordable where the kids can get a good holiday nearer to home?
How can someone criticise the government for causing hardship to children yet the same person encourage families to go into debt unnecessarily ?

[Jakubclaret]

Florida, how the times have changed, once upon a time butlins Skegness the kids would be chuffed enough & not stopping short at being over the moon.

[Somethingfishy]

What I can't understand is the article on one of the news programmes tonight about breakfast clubs for children because their parents can't afford to give them breakfast. They go to breakfast club and have a slice of toast.

A slice of bread costs 4p. Put some cheap jam on it, 5p. What sort of parents can't afford 5p to feed their child? Are there really millions of parents who are down to their last fourpence?

Or what about evening meals? My Sainsbury's shop has arrived. A chicken for £3, 1 kg of new potatoes for £1, a bag of carrots for 40p, a parsnip for 30p (I think), Yorkshire puddings 24 for £1. £6 for enough food to feed a family of four on a roast chicken dinner, a chicken shepherd's pie, chicken broth. Three meals for four people for £6. 50p per meal.

Food is not expensive. I can believe in some people can't afford, but not millions. Can it be true that there are children who have internet access at home and can't afford food?

Isn't there a charge to use a breakfast club at school? I know there is at my daughters school and it is much more than just the cost of a slice of toast. I'd be worried for their finances as a whole if they are doing that to save money. Nail on head with the food costs though.

[Somethingfishy]

Spot on, I know loads of consultants working for themselves or tiny firms and there is no work due to public sector bodies all working from home and / or not taking forward usual projects. This is at the same time as huge firms are making billions and getting handed mega contracts.

I know many who haven’t worked since March and haven’t had a penny in support because they pay themselves dividends (not as a huge tax saving, because running PAYE is messy with erratic earning patterns). These are people who in some instances earn about £50,000 per year, very decent but needs to keep rolling in to pay the bills. Others only normally earn £10k-£20k, semi retired and just keeping ticking over. We’re not talking rich people.

I also know loads of self employed who are quids in, with Sunak paying them many thousands for saying they are “affected” and they have had a far stronger year than normal. It hasn’t been fair, its been a mess by the Treasury. Everybody should have been entitled to minimum wage funding at least, if they were affected by the pandemic. Nobody should have fallen through the gaps.

This is true. A guy at work told me a story that he borrowed a sum of money off a friend who was self employed and had been handed the support grant for businesses and he didn't even need it. He applied and got it anyway. His business is doing ok. System abuse. It really is more rife than people think.

[Jakubclaret]

I tried explaining this to TVC & Nil desperandum, the self employed have never had it so good & the potential to claim & still work is there, not implying people are but it's logical to assume some will, I know the trades people are busy as more people are sprucing there houses up & looking for quotes for repair work due to trying to sell as things are easier for FTB to get on the property ladder with the deposits changing, more mortgages will be approved & pass the in principle point.

[TVC15]

I tried explaining this to TVC & Nil desperandum, the self employed have never had it so good & the potential to claim & still work is there, not implying people are but it's logical to assume some will, I know the trades people are busy as more people are sprucing there houses up & looking for quotes for repair work due to trying to sell as things are easier for FTB to get on the property ladder with the deposits changing, more mortgages will be approved & pass the in principle point.

If only I had the intellectual capacity to understand what you was trying to explain to me.

Instead I’ll sit here wondering why

More small businesses are folding than in decades
More than a third of start ups have had to cease trading in the last 12 months
More people are renting and unable to get on the property ladder than in more than half a century
The major mortgage providers are predicting a property price significant correction in 2021.

But yeh a few people in Jakub’s world sprucing up there houses is a much better economic indicator than the facts.

[Jakubclaret]

If only I had the intellectual capacity to understand what you was trying to explain to me.

Instead I’ll sit here wondering why

More small businesses are folding than in decades
More than a third of start ups have had to cease trading in the last 12 months
More people are renting and unable to get on the property ladder than in more than half a century
The major mortgage providers are predicting a property price significant correction in 2021.

But yeh a few people in Jakub’s world sprucing up there houses is a much better economic indicator than the facts.

Some businesses are actually flourishing during the pandemic but just ignore that nugget of positivity, regarding the housing market the changes have only been recently suggested & changed so it will take some time for the market to be properly stimulated it doesn't happen overnight, things aren't as gloomy as you are making them out to be! The self employed I was actually referring to plumbers, joiners, motor mechanics, builders, landscape gardeners who are busy & haven't really stopped since covid & will continue to be busy, unless you are suggesting as a nation tonight when we all go to bed after our horlicks or other nighttime beverage & when we all wake up in the morning we will have all developed plumbing & joinery skills ect we didn't possess previously, some skills will always be in demand.

[AndrewJB]

Andrew you are encouraging people taking out loans to take their kids to Florida instead of saving the money because it’s quicker and the kids might miss out otherwise,
Encouraging people to go into debt for such reasons is grossly irresponsible.
Will such children be at a disadvantage if they don’t get these holidays to Florida?
What is wrong with a more affordable where the kids can get a good holiday nearer to home?
How can someone criticise the government for causing hardship to children yet the same person encourage families to go into debt unnecessarily ?

I’m not encouraging anything. I don’t know anything about their circumstances, and I don’t know why Florida was their dream holiday, but it was, and I think the least we could do is have empathy for the fact it didn’t work out, for reasons beyond their control.

I don’t subscribe to the work work work, and Saba save save mantra unless it also includes fun. Wherever I’ve travelled I’ve seen huge buses full of pensioners on their dream holiday. In Atitlan in Guatemala I saw lots of these pull up on the lake shore. People piled out and took photographs. Then they got back in and went on to the next stop. I took a boat to the other side of the lake, stayed in a small village, and then climbed one of the volcanoes the next day. There definitely is an optimal time to travel. When I’m old I don’t want to be on a packed bus, but sat at home with interesting memories.

[tiger76]

Labour determined to force another vote on the FSM issue, it's sad that this important topic has now become politized, that wasn't what Marcus Rashford intended when he commenced his campaign, and the more it becomes a political football the less likely we are to see any meaningful change which is desperately required during the pandemic, even as a temporary measure until we can confront the bigger problems facing society.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/labour-vows-f ... 8844.html

[TVC15]

Some businesses are actually flourishing during the pandemic but just ignore that nugget of positivity, regarding the housing market the changes have only been recently suggested & changed so it will take some time for the market to be properly stimulated it doesn't happen overnight, things aren't as gloomy as you are making them out to be! The self employed I was actually referring to plumbers, joiners, motor mechanics, builders, landscape gardeners who are busy & haven't really stopped since covid & will continue to be busy, unless you are suggesting as a nation tonight when we all go to bed after our horlicks or other nighttime beverage & when we all wake up in the morning we will have all developed plumbing & joinery skills ect we didn't possess previously, some skills will always be in demand.

Not really the point. Of course some people are flourishing and some will always be busy....especially those with specialist skills or trades.
This thread is about child poverty you seem to have forgotten - not about the minority of people who are doing well.
You talk about me ignoring the “nugget of positivity” - whilst you seem completely and utterly ignorant of what this thread is actually about and the hardship so many people in this country are facing.
I’d think you were joking or just spoiling for an argument but even more worrying you seem serious about the ridiculous stuff you post.

[aggi]

If you bear in mind that Jakubclaret's worldview is informed only by what he sees first hand then it makes sense.

He has no concept that self employed people beyond those he sees like plumbers and builders exist as he doesn't deal with them.

[martin_p]

Labour determined to force another vote on the FSM issue, it's sad that this important topic has now become politized, that wasn't what Marcus Rashford intended when he commenced his campaign, and the more it becomes a political football the less likely we are to see any meaningful change which is desperately required during the pandemic, even as a temporary measure until we can confront the bigger problems facing society.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/labour-vows-f ... 8844.html

How else are Labour to affect the government over turn of a decision they strongly agree with.

[tiger76]

How else are Labour to affect the government over turn of a decision they strongly agree with.

I understand that but all the government will likely do is dig their heels in, and we'll be in a parliamentary stalemate for the winter which helps nobody least of all the hard-pressed families during this pandemic.

Why the government are so adamant that they won't fund this policy you'd have to ask them, it baffles me as the cost would be minimal, and the political fallout is damaging for them on many fronts, they are hardly helping their cause in ridding themselves of the nasty party label which they're supposedly trying to shed.

It might help Labour's case if they stopped throwing insults around, that also does nobody any good, and it hardly shows our parliament in a good light.

[Jakubclaret]

If you bear in mind that Jakubclaret's worldview is informed only by what he sees first hand then it makes sense.

He has no concept that self employed people beyond those he sees like plumbers and builders exist as he doesn't deal with them.

I travel about most days & I see work vans & I drive past houses being built & trees being chainsawed & BT engineers working on the exchange boxes & on the M55 the other night the highway agency carrying out work I could go on it’s endless, I go on Facebook & people are advertising & wanting jobs doing all the time & I see some of the replies saying I’m too busy or I can do this then & not now. I’m not disputing Covid as affected the hospitality & pubs & restaurants & other industries but some are positively booming, recruiting & even rejecting work, you must have a very sheltered narrow thought process if you cannot see simple basic things or maybe ultra reclusive or possibly blind I don’t know.

[Somethingfishy]

I don’t live in Burnley, so I can’t speak with first hand experience. When I saw the campaign against her I looked up her voting record, and there was nothing there that stood out as bad:

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25283 ... nley/votes

When I questioned people about her - assuming there were specific reasons why she wasn’t liked; haughty in her surgery? Didn’t respond to letters? Never attended Parliament? There can be lots of reasons why someone isn’t liked, nobody had anything specific. Not to say there aren’t bad points, but they’ve never been set out for me.

On social media there are quite a few Facebook pages heavily populated by Tory thinking people.

I've had this conversation with you several times and in some ways you make good points about the press attacks on Corbyn by the MSM but you also know i think you simplay cannot blame them for the fact Labour failed so badly.
Now you carry it further and blame social media. I don't know if you have ever been on Tw***er but it is heavily populated by the baying left wing mob. Not to say there aren't right wing leaning people on there but again you cannot blame social media for Julie Cooper getting booted out of power. People remember her for voting to impede Brexit on numerous key votes when it became a mess in parliament. Voting against her constituents wishes and "toeing the party line" which is quite funny when you consider the current MP is being blamed for doing the same. That was her downfall and you can quite probably blame that on the red wall collapsing.

As for the she did nothing for Burnley argument. I think it is a very throwaway comment. She certainly wasn't as public faced as Anthony Higginbotham is within the actual town. Now whether that is down to poor PR by her team is another thing. I've seen more parliamentary speeches by the current MP than i saw in all of Julie Coopers time in office. Time will judge him and there is another few years yet.
There is also the argument that it may be better for the town having an MP of the current governments party...again that remains to be seen.

[Somethingfishy]

If only I had the intellectual capacity to understand what you was trying to explain to me.

Instead I’ll sit here wondering why

More small businesses are folding than in decades
More than a third of start ups have had to cease trading in the last 12 months
More people are renting and unable to get on the property ladderin 2021 than in more than half a century
The major mortgage providers are predicting a property price significant correction.

But yeh a few people in Jakub’s world sprucing up there houses is a much better economic indicator than the facts.

Yet this is happening? https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articl ... ten-years/

The governments freeze on stamp duty having an effect?
My mum put her 3 bed semi up for sale 6 weeks ago. It sold within a week amid quite a lot of interest. The housing market is extremely buoyant at the moment.

[taio]

Useless is such an elastic term. Whenever I asked people I know who called her that what she’d done wrong, I was told (with one exception) that “she haS done nothing for the people of Burnley.” That’s as far as I was able to get, so among a handful of older and not very politically minded Burnley voters, the social media attacks on her (which probably informed conversations too) worked. I agree it’s unedifying to see someone strip off, if that’s what she did.

As for the incumbent, I think voting against feeding hungry children isn’t a good look, and nor is faithfully copying out the Cummings memo in response. But still too early to tell.

"She has done nothing for Burnley" is as far as you will get because she literally did nothing so people aren't able to go beyond that. What in your view did she do for the town?

[TVC15]

Yet this is happening? https://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/articl ... ten-years/

The governments freeze on stamp duty having an effect?
My mum put her 3 bed semi up for sale 6 weeks ago. It sold within a week amid quite a lot of interest. The housing market is extremely buoyant at the moment.

I said the housing forecast was for 2021.

[Elizabeth]

I’ll save my empathy for families missing out on a lot more than a Florida holiday Andrew because I am standing on my feet and not my head .
If voting against ‘feeding hungry children’ as you dramatically describe it brings about more of the great community spirit I’ve read about in recent times then that’s not a bad thing. It’s about time!
There has been little or none of it for a long time now. Plenty of blaming governments though.Tory governments I should say for your benefit.

[Lowbankclaret]

Useless is such an elastic term. Whenever I asked people I know who called her that what she’d done wrong, I was told (with one exception) that “she haS done nothing for the people of Burnley.” That’s as far as I was able to get, so among a handful of older and not very politically minded Burnley voters, the social media attacks on her (which probably informed conversations too) worked. I agree it’s unedifying to see someone strip off, if that’s what she did.

As for the incumbent, I think voting against feeding hungry children isn’t a good look, and nor is faithfully copying out the Cummings memo in response. But still too early to tell.

Well she did strop off ( not Strip, that would have put me off my pint). I agree voting against hungry kids does not look good, but that’s the party whip for you.

[Lowbankclaret]

I've had this conversation with you several times and in some ways you make good points about the press attacks on Corbyn by the MSM but you also know i think you simplay cannot blame them for the fact Labour failed so badly.
Now you carry it further and blame social media. I don't know if you have ever been on Tw***er but it is heavily populated by the baying left wing mob. Not to say there aren't right wing leaning people on there but again you cannot blame social media for Julie Cooper getting booted out of power. People remember her for voting to impede Brexit on numerous key votes when it became a mess in parliament. Voting against her constituents wishes and "toeing the party line" which is quite funny when you consider the current MP is being blamed for doing the same. That was her downfall and you can quite probably blame that on the red wall collapsing.

As for the she did nothing for Burnley argument. I think it is a very throwaway comment. She certainly wasn't as public faced as Anthony Higginbotham is within the actual town. Now whether that is down to poor PR by her team is another thing. I've seen more parliamentary speeches by the current MP than i saw in all of Julie Coopers time in office. Time will judge him and there is another few years yet.
There is also the argument that it may be better for the town having an MP of the current governments party...again that remains to be seen.

If the Labour Party chose her for the next election, I think Antony might get in again. I am no Tory but he has put himself out there. I have given some pain on social media to the point members of my family have told me to back off, which is never going to happen.

[Jakubclaret]

I said the housing forecast was for 2021.

Well that’s set to improve even more by then, there are already progressing through the clinical stages for the vaccine. Things are looking up future wise if things were deteriorating you would have a case, even though with stamp duty freeze finishing by then march 2021 if the vaccine is rolled out by then I think the current trend will be maintained as everything will be more relaxed.

[tiger76]

If the Labour Party chose her for the next election, I think Antony might get in again. I am no Tory but he has put himself out there. I have given some pain on social media to the point members of my family have told me to back off, which is never going to happen.

If the Burnley Labour Party can't find an alternative candidate to Julie Cooper then they really are in trouble, and you could well be correct in your assessment of the next election Lowbank, the reason Labour lost many working class voters is because they took them for granted and assumed they had nowhere else to go, well as has been shown over several election cycles now in Burnley this theory has been proven as plainly incorrect, Burnley has voted for various parties throughout the past 2 decades, and it's not a given that it'll go back to Labour in 2024.

I don't live in Burnley so have no in depth knowledge whether AH is a good MP or not, but he has been very public in his appearances, and making yourself known in the area, and taking an interest in the town itself is a start, Kitty Usher was terrible at this, and she was a stereotypical Blairite MP, her career was more important to her than the town's residents, Birtwistle was good at being seen campaigning in the town, but a lot of his pledges weren't met, notably the A & E being moved to Blackburn, Julie Cooper I know little about apart from her opposition to brexit, and clearly in a heavily leave voting area such as Burnley that was never going to serve her well.

[Lowbankclaret]

If the Burnley Labour Party can't find an alternative candidate to Julie Cooper then they really are in trouble, and you could well be correct in your assessment of the next election Lowbank, the reason Labour lost many working class voters is because they took them for granted and assumed they had nowhere else to go, well as has been shown over several election cycles now in Burnley this theory has been proven as plainly incorrect, Burnley has voted for various parties throughout the past 2 decades, and it's not a given that it'll go back to Labour in 2024.

I don't live in Burnley so have no in depth knowledge whether AH is a good MP or not, but he has been very public in his appearances, and making yourself known in the area, and taking an interest in the town itself is a start, Kitty Usher was terrible at this, and she was a stereotypical Blairite MP, her career was more important to her than the town's residents, Birtwistle was good at being seen campaigning in the town, but a lot of his pledges weren't met, notably the A & E being moved to Blackburn, Julie Cooper I know little about apart from her opposition to brexit, and clearly in a heavily leave voting area such as Burnley that was never going to serve her well.

As an ex Labour voter who did vote for Julie in previous elections, her outburst on my doorstep when Iasked if she would allow a vote on being a member of the EU, did surprise me a little. But it showed her arrogance and how out of touch she was with the people of Burnley.
Knowing the Labour party as I do she will be the 2024 candidate and that just might hand Antony another term.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

If the Burnley Labour Party can't find an alternative candidate to Julie Cooper then they really are in trouble, and you could well be correct in your assessment of the next election Lowbank, the reason Labour lost many working class voters is because they took them for granted and assumed they had nowhere else to go, well as has been shown over several election cycles now in Burnley this theory has been proven as plainly incorrect, Burnley has voted for various parties throughout the past 2 decades, and it's not a given that it'll go back to Labour in 2024.

I don't live in Burnley so have no in depth knowledge whether AH is a good MP or not, but he has been very public in his appearances, and making yourself known in the area, and taking an interest in the town itself is a start, Kitty Usher was terrible at this, and she was a stereotypical Blairite MP, her career was more important to her than the town's residents, Birtwistle was good at being seen campaigning in the town, but a lot of his pledges weren't met, notably the A & E being moved to Blackburn, Julie Cooper I know little about apart from her opposition to brexit, and clearly in a heavily leave voting area such as Burnley that was never going to serve her well.

Taking an interest in the town apart from the bit about children going hungry!! What a guy!

[dougcollins]

Taking an interest in his own career I would suggest. Once he gets the chance to move on you won't see him for dust.

[Somethingfishy]

Well that’s set to improve even more by then, there are already progressing through the clinical stages for the vaccine. Things are looking up future wise if things were deteriorating you would have a case, even though with stamp duty freeze finishing by then march 2021 if the vaccine is rolled out by then I think the current trend will be maintained as everything will be more relaxed.

To be fair i think if they don't extend the stamp duty freeze then things may change with the housing market but perhaps not to critical standards. Rolling out a vaccine will have little effect on the economic side of things for quite some time. Confidence may increase but so much damage has been done and the country is in so much debt now it is safe to say things won't get back to normal for quite some time.

[ŽižkovClaret]

If you want a sensible debate about this we could this on a separate thread, now's not the time nor the place, if you just want to try to ridicule or belittle I'm not interested, the public should have the right to decide on serious offences.

The public do have the right. They elect governments who in turn appoint the judiciary.

Not everything can, or should be a single issue referendum. We need experts in charge, regardless of any mental fatigue Gove might experience.

[Jakubclaret]

The public do have the right. They elect governments who in turn appoint the judiciary.

Not everything can, or should be a single issue referendum. We need experts in charge, regardless of any mental fatigue Gove might experience.

I'm talking about deciding direct just on the sentences only, I realise we have an appointed government & chosen judiciary, just for really serious offences such as multiple murder.