How good are our under 18’s & under 23’s

[Longsidebogs]

Genuinely interested as I have never seen them. They seem to be average at best. Is this indicative of the calibre of our scouting system, which appears to be a disaster frankly?

[Buxtonclaret]

How good regarding what yardstick?

Our infrastructure is immense to what it was less than a decade ago.
From being trashed, it's been rebuilt.
To levels we could only have dreamt about. Player development takes time.
Replacing a network that was disbanded does too.
I'd suggest it will at least pay for itself and, provide a few more players progressing to the first team.
It's they way we once were and, the way we need to be again.

How you think it's a disaster is a bit bizarre though.
Care to elaborate?

[Devils_Advocate]

Genuinely interested as I have never seen them. They seem to be average at best. Is this indicative of the calibre of our scouting system, which appears to be a disaster frankly?

post envy

[jurek]

It's difficult to know or say at present.
It'll probably be another couple of years before we know.
It is critically important though as it's one of the ways, if not the best way
of us ensuring we stay in the top league. Ideally we need to be bringing through
one or two players on a regular basis.
Especially as it doesn't look as if we can compete in the transfer market
or are able to bring in players from the lower leagues (be it UK or EU based)
who can make the grade.
I haven't seen or know much about our current crop apart from
those who've managed to get some time on the pitch ( I'm thinking Benson
and is it Thompson?) who look as if they might be able to make the grade.

Hopefully there may be one or two others who I'm not aware of?

[Bosscat]

post envy

images (3).jpeg (2.37 KiB) Viewed 2790 times

[Dark Cloud]

IMO opinion it's really hard to pass an objective judgement on our 18's and 23's just now as we've so very recently moved into not only a higher standard of footy, but a MUCH higher standard of footy and clearly we will take some time to adjust to that, especially regarding our recruitment of youngsters. The early results show exactly that, i.e. we're not finding the step up easy and I guess no one at the club thought we would. Also ultimately, we don't absolutely HAVE to get lads coming through who will play in the first team for the set up to pay for itself, we just need three or four players making it into the lower leagues over a couple of years and the modest fees we're due from those clubs they eventually sign for will hopefully cover our costs. Plus we have to accept that getting someone to go all the way into our first team (like McNeil or Dunne) is always going to be much harder whilst we remain at our present level, but of course getting someone to that standard is always going to be the aim.

[dougcollins]

images (3).jpeg

Well, they'll be posts when they're sharpened. At the moment they're logs.

[Bosscat]

Well, they'll be posts when they're sharpened. At the moment they're logs.

The pointy bits are on the other end of them

[dougcollins]

That's what the last guy who sold me 'posts' said!

[Burnleyareback2]

Genuinely interested as I have never seen them. They seem to be average at best. Is this indicative of the calibre of our scouting system, which appears to be a disaster frankly?

You haven’t sent them but think our scouting system is a disaster? That’s quite an assumption.

[elwaclaret]

Oh my cod, you know trout about it, have you no sole

[Longsidebogs]

Sorry I posted now. My bad apparently. I just observed that we are scouting young lads that just don’t seem to be that good for a premier league club. As I said in the OP I haven’t seen any of them play...but I have noted that they rarely win? Is that a fair observation? I agree that a club like Burnley need to excel in this area given our minuscule if not non-existent budget. If I may say so, we seem to have a ridiculous scouting system. I don’t really care if anyone likes, agrees or disagrees with my opinion. I just wonder wtf is going on at Burnley at present. I don’t want an argument. It’s just my opinion before the Uber fans start circling.

[Bosscat]

Oh my cod, you know trout about it, have you no sole

No need to "Carp" on about it

[Bosscat]

Sorry I posted now. My bad apparently. I just observed that we are scouting young lads that just don’t seem to be that good for a premier league club. As I said in the OP I haven’t seen any of them play...but I have noted that they rarely win? Is that a fair observation? I agree that a club like Burnley need to excel in this area given our minuscule if not non-existent budget. If I may say so, we seem to have a ridiculous scouting system. I don’t really care if anyone likes, agrees or disagrees with my opinion. I just wonder wtf is going on at Burnley at present. I don’t want an argument. It’s just my opinion before the Uber fans start circling.

I take it you didn't see any results over the past couple of years in Cat 2 of the football academy

And why we stepped up to Cat 1

[dsr]

Genuinely interested as I have never seen them. They seem to be average at best. Is this indicative of the calibre of our scouting system, which appears to be a disaster frankly?

If the under 19s and under 23s are average for the Premier League Category 1 academy sides, then I'm very pleased. We're well suited if we have average talent.

[Devils_Advocate]

images (3).jpeg

I wouldnt mind but its not even the most pointless thing Ive seen you post on here just this week

[Bosscat]

I wouldnt mind but its not even the most pointless thing Ive seen you post on here just this week

Me and pointless posts DA nahhhhh no idea what you mean

[boatshed bill]

Straight answer to the original question "not very?"

[Super Teds]

Oh my cod, you know trout about it, have you no sole

krilliant!

[Quickenthetempo]

Having 6 other super academies within the hours drive is a big problem for us. Huge financial backing is hard to go against.

But it's a long way forward from where we have been over the last 40 years. Producing players that can play league football is a big step up to what we had.

[claptrappers_union]

If the Academy is any good, we’ll be there to see in about 5 years time, we’ll be able to gauge how many players are playing in the first team or professionally elsewhere.

Though you can look at Youth League / Cup winning sides from top clubs and at International level from the past decade and you’ll only see a few recognisable names playing an elite level today.

[Chester Perry]

Many people make the mistake in thinking a successful Academy is one that has teams that wins lots of games and trophies, when the reality is that a successful Academy is one that produces players either worthy of becoming established first team players at the club or players that can go on to have a career in the game elsewhere at a lesser level but with the bonus of bringing a fee to the club, the two are not mutually exclusive but they are most definitely not firmly tied together either.

As others have pointed out, our Academy is in the early stages of a long journey, there are some promising prospects, but as of now it is impossible to say which way their future will take them.

I will say that it was not long ago that this board had a thread bounding with joy after the Millwall Cup game directly as a result of performances of members of that U23 squad in the game - it has been a while since there had been such a positive mood on a thread and it was wonderful to be part of.

[ecc]

Results, whilst important, are not the only thing that matters. Developing young players is not a precise science, far from it.

None of the lads who reached the FA Youth Cup went on to have a "major" career and yet Dwight, who AFAIK has never got that far in the cup, is a regular PL player and playing for England U21s. Some lads who look good at 15 or 16 just don't get better - for various reasons - whilst others develop later.

We have three seemingly good young lads whose names I shall not mention but time will tell whether they will make it as pros.

[SGr]

Many people make the mistake in thinking a successful Academy is one that has teams that wins lots of games and trophies, when the reality is that a successful Academy is one that produces players either worthy of becoming established first team players at the club or players that can go on to have a career in the game elsewhere at a lesser level but with the bonus of bringing a fee to the club

Basically this. If even one of the current crop winds up in the first team squad then the programme has a very successful year.

As recently as 2014-15 our academy (not that you could call it that then) was nothing short of a joke. It may well end up as Dyche’s greatest legacy at the club; players are coming through again.

[ClaretTony]

Improving significantly is the answer although struggling results wise this season, as expected, with the big step up.

Although it’s not about results but player development it has to be taken into account that injured first team players means U23 players stepping up and being replaced in U18 players. That then continues working down the levels.

OP hasn’t seen them play but can seemingly pass an opinion. I’d just suggest you look beyond the results. It’s about producing footballers to play league football and we have started to do that.

[boatshed bill]

It's impossible to know how well things are going.
I find it interesting to follow both, always hoping for some lads to break through.
What I found quite astonishing is the sheer numbers involved, we have over 40 on the academy squad list according to Clarets Mad, and we are trialling new players on top.
It must be very difficult to select settled teams, and keep these sort of numbers happy.

[ClaretTony]

we have over 40 on the academy squad list according to Clarets Mad

I can't imagine that's been updated since I packed in which was January 2016

[boatshed bill]

I can't imagine that's been updated since I packed in which was January 2016

Haha, Sorry about that, I mean Up The Clarets of course. It really is quite a list.

[ClaretTony]

Haha, Sorry about that, I mean Up The Clarets of course. It really is quite a list.

Hell of a list now - u18s seem to be split into two now while we do have a lot of u23 players.

[boatshed bill]

Hell of a list now - u18s seem to be split into two now while we do have a lot of u23 players.

Is the club also responsible for some of the players' education?

[Spijed]

Under 23's lost to Middlesbrough 3-0 earlier on.

[ClaretTony]

Is the club also responsible for some of the players' education?

Scholars when they come in at 16 continue with their education. They go to college and it’s all organised by someone at the club. It was Pat McKiernan when I had more involvement.

[mdd2]

I can't imagine that's been updated since I packed in which was January 2016

[dsr]

I can't imagine that's been updated since I packed in which was January 2016

Funny thing about "UptheClarets". If I say I have been on the Up The Clarets website (me being one of those people that always, sometimes on purpose, is slow to catch on to new names. Anyone fancy a Marathon or some Opal Fruits?) then the person I am talking to always, correctly, assumes that we are talking about this site.