The next American President?

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PeterWilton
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Re: The next American President?

Post by PeterWilton » Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:02 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:54 am

That is why I fear a Biden presidency - same old, same old, while the West declines and the East rises. Trump’s foulness pales into insignificance compared to that. I just wish there was a better option.
It should be a worry for those of us who oppose fascism that you think Trump's worst trait is his "foulness".

This guy is Hitler before the Enabling Act and you somehow fear Biden more. You need to wake the **** up mate.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by Bullabill » Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:11 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:59 am
Sensible.

Choose New Zealand though, Canada is too close and has French speakers there.

And New Zealand has a very savvy normal lady in charge.
Not true. Jacinda Ardern was re-elected.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by tiger76 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:25 pm

Bullabill wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:11 pm
Not true. Jacinda Ardern was re-elected.
Yes and why was she re-elected by a landslide, probably because she is competent and effective in her job, unlike Trump who has become worse by the day throughout his tenure, his pathetic response to the CV just sums his presidency up, he thinks there is easy answers to complex problems, reality check there isn't, and whoever was in power in any country hard decisions would have to be made, however most countries have made better choices than both the UK and the US, hence why both are amongst the worst in deaths and economic damage.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by android » Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:57 pm

PeterWilton wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:02 pm
It should be a worry for those of us who oppose fascism that you think Trump's worst trait is his "foulness".

This guy is Hitler before the Enabling Act and you somehow fear Biden more. You need to wake the **** up mate.
Hitler comparisons rarely fail to add weight to an argument.

Meanwhile, back from imaginings to things that are actually happening in 21st century America.

King County Library System recently held a Diversity, Equity and Inclusion staff training session with one room labelled and set aside for "People of color" and another room set aside for "People who are white".

No prizes for guessing who King County is named after. He must be turning in his grave.

But nothing to see here right? Where's the harm in a bit of racial segregation? We need to wake up alright but it might be too late.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:37 pm

android wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:57 pm
Hitler comparisons rarely fail to add weight to an argument.

Meanwhile, back from imaginings to things that are actually happening in 21st century America.

King County Library System recently held a Diversity, Equity and Inclusion staff training session with one room labelled and set aside for "People of color" and another room set aside for "People who are white".

No prizes for guessing who King County is named after. He must be turning in his grave.

But nothing to see here right? Where's the harm in a bit of racial segregation? We need to wake up alright but it might be too late.
Didnt this go back to 2019 and was it not training sessions but an approach similar taken in the recent channel 4 series "The School That Tried to End Racism" about how we tackle unconscious bias

I know you seem to subscribe to the colour blind solution in ending racism but the truth seems to be that whether we like it or not skin colour does impact our perception and drive unconscious bias in the best of us.

I really have no idea how we tackle this and if this approach (or any others) has any success but it seems you are misrepresenting what actually has gone which is something you seem very opposed to in your other conversations on this messageboard
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KateR
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Re: The next American President?

Post by KateR » Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:06 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:47 am
I’m not a fan of Obama’s military record, but he inherited the wars, just as he inherited the financial crash.

When you consider the money the US has spent on the means to project violence, from the end of the Cold War until now - Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump - America could be a more prosperous place had they made wiser choices.
He did not inherit the issues where he decided to change how war would be conducted, he did not decide to finish those wars, he just decided to fight them a different way, I liked Obama but attacking Trump on war and military and saying how good Obama was is just plain rubbish. Obama had an economy which could only go one way, up and had the wars which in terms of troops could only go one way, down by bringing them home. I was fearful like many about Trump having the power of the button and how he would respond military wise, when the Iranians attacked the warship in the gulf I thought ohhh dear here we go but he certainly did not do any kneejerk reaction and at that point I relaxed regarding him and going to war. If we are talking about America going to war I would be a lot happier with Trump than Biden, I also believe the economy will be better under Trump than Biden, but there are numerous other issues that Biden would be better at I think, like someone said, it really should be about policies they bring rather than the man themselves which is mainly where we are.

Additionally, the usual suspect who bring up the Trump war monger and are proven wrong then immediately turn acknowledge another subject they think they are on safe ground with and jump on another band wagon, but he's done nothing about gun control has he.
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CrosspoolClarets
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Re: The next American President?

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:12 pm

PeterWilton wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:02 pm
It should be a worry for those of us who oppose fascism that you think Trump's worst trait is his "foulness".

This guy is Hitler before the Enabling Act and you somehow fear Biden more. You need to wake the **** up mate.
I do try my hardest only to engage with the adults on these threads, but making a rare exception I would politely observe that I referred to the east rising and the west declining on the post you replied to. One of the biggest elements of myopia relating to this is the east getting a free pass from the people who call Trump a fascist akin to Adolf while ignoring the ethnic cleansing going on with the Uighur Muslims.

Personally I find Trump to be loud, rude, obnoxious, dislikable and in many senses not a very good President. Trump though is not even close to being the kind of person who would allow some of the heinous acts taking place in other countries we could name.

p.s. it is the downright hatred of Trump which leads to the utopian forecast of a Biden presidency which I referred to earlier as being likely to lead to a rude awakening.
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Re: The next American President?

Post by HahaYeah » Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:42 pm

The MSM in the USA are banning the Gateway Pundit - Biden China blackmail video but it's too late because the cat is out of the bag now. :P


The Donald will drain the swamp. :geek:

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Re: The next American President?

Post by android » Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:37 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:37 pm
Didnt this go back to 2019 and was it not training sessions but an approach similar taken in the recent channel 4 series "The School That Tried to End Racism" about how we tackle unconscious bias

I know you seem to subscribe to the colour blind solution in ending racism but the truth seems to be that whether we like it or not skin colour does impact our perception and drive unconscious bias in the best of us.

I really have no idea how we tackle this and if this approach (or any others) has any success but it seems you are misrepresenting what actually has gone which is something you seem very opposed to in your other conversations on this messageboard
Fear not DA, I said nothing about their aims, so I did not misrepresent them.

It may well be that the purpose of the King County sessions was similar to whatever Channel 4 did. But it is one thing for a TV show to run something like that and another for an employer to do it to their employees.

Racial segregation of employees is a terrible idea however you dress it up.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by AlargeClaret » Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:50 pm

Amazed anyone in UK has the slightest interest ? US politics has very little influence if at all over here . Sure they are technically our “ mates” and it’s just about reasonable . Trumps tenure has been a vaguely bizzare amusing sideshow though fair do’s in his economics and foreign policy but a more statesman like figure is better imo

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Re: The next American President?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:05 pm

android wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:37 pm
Fear not DA, I said nothing about their aims, so I did not misrepresent them.

It may well be that the purpose of the King County sessions was similar to whatever Channel 4 did. But it is one thing for a TV show to run something like that and another for an employer to do it to their employees.

Racial segregation of employees is a terrible idea however you dress it up.
You stated King County Library System recently held a Diversity, Equity and Inclusion staff training session and this is rebutted by Kings County library and there is no evidence of this

If you watched the Ch4 TV show it was run and led by some US academics who are experts in this field and who run these session across different areas of the US so its very possible that breaking out into groups based on ethnicity is just part of this methodology to get people thinking and talking about their unconscious bias in a freer and more productive way. To label this as racial segregation is no different than likening Trumps regime and actions to fascism

It is also telling for me that I could only see two media outlets pick up and run with this story and both were right wing outlets with a poor record with regards to factual reporting. The stories linked to a commentator on Twitter who looking at his posts and replies seemed to be nothing more than a race agitator playing to fears around BLM/Antifa and critical race theory. Again this seems to be the right wing version of what you a quick to criticise the left with on here

It also makes me wonder what kind of news and media do you pay attention to such that you pick up such a small individual story and use it as a representation of whats happening in 21st century America.

The fact that someone has had to spot this in the background of a TV news section to make a big deal out of it when there has been no issues from the employees of Kings County library over an business initiative thats been running since 2019 tells me this is a non issue which some right wing race baiters have used to rile up their followers and create further division and social unrest.

The initiative/sessions were not compulsory and I have had a lot of experience of this kind of thing at the large company I work at where the company looks to set up groups and sessions on subjects like LGBQT, diversity & inclusion and mental health which are all optional (opposed to the actual training sessions on things like Finance Reg and Ethical Codes of Practice which is compulsory. (ive actually got a questionnaire sitting in my inbox which the company has asked me to complete to help them understand how their workforce feel about diversity within the company but this is completely discretionary)

I guess in summary I find it very odd that you have picked up such an obscure story from the far right of American politics which is very short on facts and background info to use as an example to scoff at another posters Hitler comparison but hey ho thats the world we live in nowadays

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Re: The next American President?

Post by android » Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:14 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:05 pm
You stated King County Library System recently held a Diversity, Equity and Inclusion staff training session and this is rebutted by Kings County library and there is no evidence of this

If you watched the Ch4 TV show it was run and led by some US academics who are experts in this field and who run these session across different areas of the US so its very possible that breaking out into groups based on ethnicity is just part of this methodology to get people thinking and talking about their unconscious bias in a freer and more productive way. To label this as racial segregation is no different than likening Trumps regime and actions to fascism

It is also telling for me that I could only see two media outlets pick up and run with this story and both were right wing outlets with a poor record with regards to factual reporting. The stories linked to a commentator on Twitter who looking at his posts and replies seemed to be nothing more than a race agitator playing to fears around BLM/Antifa and critical race theory. Again this seems to be the right wing version of what you a quick to criticise the left with on here

It also makes me wonder what kind of news and media do you pay attention to such that you pick up such a small individual story and use it as a representation of whats happening in 21st century America.

The fact that someone has had to spot this in the background of a TV news section to make a big deal out of it when there has been no issues from the employees of Kings County library over an business initiative thats been running since 2019 tells me this is a non issue which some right wing race baiters have used to rile up their followers and create further division and social unrest.

The initiative/sessions were not compulsory and I have had a lot of experience of this kind of thing at the large company I work at where the company looks to set up groups and sessions on subjects like LGBQT, diversity & inclusion and mental health which are all optional (opposed to the actual training sessions on things like Finance Reg and Ethical Codes of Practice which is compulsory. (ive actually got a questionnaire sitting in my inbox which the company has asked me to complete to help them understand how their workforce feel about diversity within the company but this is completely discretionary)

I guess in summary I find it very odd that you have picked up such an obscure story from the far right of American politics which is very short on facts and background info to use as an example to scoff at another posters Hitler comparison but hey ho thats the world we live in nowadays
Hard to make sense of all that. You first replied telling me what you thought happened in these King County sessions and now you are telling me that they did not happen at all. But later on you then go on to say that the sessions were not compulsory! I think it's safe to say they would not be compulsory if they never happened!

I agree it is hard to tell real from fake these days, but I am confident that it really did happen. I believe the pictures I have seen are real and it is literally racial segregation. If that makes you uncomfortable - good. I am talking about King County not Channel 4, which you wrongly suggested I was talking about. I have not seen the Channel 4 thing at all so I can't comment on that.

I also can't really engage with all the stuff about Trump is a fascist, Nazi and so on. I said from day one that is was childish (like him at least) and a silly way to oppose him, as it just fuels his own fake news narrative. It still would not be that surprising if his opponents managed to blow the open goal they have been given this year.

I think the thing to bear in mind is the King County business is surely not going to be an exception if the CRT / white privilege fans get their way. I don't see Biden standing up to it. Last week, Biden's patronising (at best) comments about black people all thinking the same were copied by an ex-girlfriend of 50cent telling him he could not vote Trump because he is black. Black Trump supporters were so impressed. That's progress folks.
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Re: The next American President?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:33 pm

android wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:14 pm
Hard to make sense of all that. You first replied telling me what you thought happened in these King County sessions and now you are telling me that they did not happen at all. But later on you then go on to say that the sessions were not compulsory! I think it's safe to say they would not be compulsory if they never happened!

I agree it is hard to tell real from fake these days, but I am confident that it really did happen. I believe the pictures I have seen are real and it is literally racial segregation. If that makes you uncomfortable - good. I am talking about King County not Channel 4, which you wrongly suggested I was talking about. I have not seen the Channel 4 thing at all so I can't comment on that.

I also can't really engage with all the stuff about Trump is a fascist, Nazi and so on. I said from day one that is was childish (like him at least) and a silly way to oppose him, as it just fuels his own fake news narrative. It still would not be that surprising if his opponents managed to blow the open goal they have been given this year.

I think the thing to bear in mind is the King County business is surely not going to be an exception if the CRT / white privilege fans get their way. I don't see Biden standing up to it. Last week, Biden's patronising (at best) comments about black people all thinking the same were copied by an ex-girlfriend of 50cent telling him he could not vote Trump because he is black. Black Trump supporters were so impressed. That's progress folks.
Lets keep it simple then. You stated King County Library System recently held a Diversity, Equity and Inclusion staff training session. This has been denied and there is no evidence of this

If you like to provide some evidence that a training session where black and white people were segregated took place then I'll take you serious otherwise I'll leave you to what I can only assume is your race baiting media sources as you're not worth the energy

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Re: The next American President?

Post by PeterWilton » Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:06 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:12 pm
I do try my hardest only to engage with the adults on these threads, but making a rare exception I would politely observe that I referred to the east rising and the west declining on the post you replied to. One of the biggest elements of myopia relating to this is the east getting a free pass from the people who call Trump a fascist akin to Adolf while ignoring the ethnic cleansing going on with the Uighur Muslims.

Personally I find Trump to be loud, rude, obnoxious, dislikable and in many senses not a very good President. Trump though is not even close to being the kind of person who would allow some of the heinous acts taking place in other countries we could name.

p.s. it is the downright hatred of Trump which leads to the utopian forecast of a Biden presidency which I referred to earlier as being likely to lead to a rude awakening.
When I was calling the treatment of Uighurs a genocide I was being laughed at and ridiculed by people who sound very much like you. Now you're using them against me because you're accusing me, without evidence no, of "ignoring" them. Get your head out of your arse, would you please?

As for the heinous acts he wouldn't perpetrate, does that include concentration camps for brown people and snatching children away from their parents and not returning them?

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Re: The next American President?

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:12 pm

Imploding Wilton. The only member of this messageboard who actually posts in Americanese!.

:lol:

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Re: The next American President?

Post by PeterWilton » Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:18 pm

Anyone know when these polls are supposed to begin to tighten? I've been getting told by Trumpers that all the polls are wrong and we'll see when the gap between the fascist and the centrist narrows the closer we get to election day, but so far it's not started yet. Asking for 300 million friends.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by PeterWilton » Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:28 pm

android wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:14 pm
Hard to make sense of all that. You first replied telling me what you thought happened in these King County sessions and now you are telling me that they did not happen at all. But later on you then go on to say that the sessions were not compulsory! I think it's safe to say they would not be compulsory if they never happened!

I agree it is hard to tell real from fake these days, but I am confident that it really did happen. I believe the pictures I have seen are real and it is literally racial segregation. If that makes you uncomfortable - good. I am talking about King County not Channel 4, which you wrongly suggested I was talking about. I have not seen the Channel 4 thing at all so I can't comment on that.

I also can't really engage with all the stuff about Trump is a fascist, Nazi and so on. I said from day one that is was childish (like him at least) and a silly way to oppose him, as it just fuels his own fake news narrative. It still would not be that surprising if his opponents managed to blow the open goal they have been given this year.

I think the thing to bear in mind is the King County business is surely not going to be an exception if the CRT / white privilege fans get their way. I don't see Biden standing up to it. Last week, Biden's patronising (at best) comments about black people all thinking the same were copied by an ex-girlfriend of 50cent telling him he could not vote Trump because he is black. Black Trump supporters were so impressed. That's progress folks.
Maybe instead of believing right-wing "news" sites like The Post Millennial you could maybe pay attention to the people who actually know what it was, and believe them instead.

https://kcls.org/news/kcls-responds-to- ... itiatives/

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Re: The next American President?

Post by HahaYeah » Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:37 am


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Re: The next American President?

Post by PeterWilton » Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:20 am

If they need a secret Chinese bank account to store their money they can get in touch with Donald Trump, isn't that right, HahaYeah?

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Re: The next American President?

Post by PeterWilton » Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 am

Looking good for the anti-fascists.

8 to go.
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Re: The next American President?

Post by HahaYeah » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:05 am

PeterWilton wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:20 am
If they need a secret Chinese bank account to store their money they can get in touch with Donald Trump, isn't that right, HahaYeah?
Yeah they can find Hitler - I mean Trump at one of his secret 'concentration camps for brown people' :P

Hunter Biden's Emails Prove Joe Biden's Corruption
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l66e3zhQe7w :geek:

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Re: The next American President?

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:59 am

If trump wins I have a feeling Wilton may implode

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Re: The next American President?

Post by android » Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:24 am

PeterWilton wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:28 pm
Maybe instead of believing right-wing "news" sites like The Post Millennial you could maybe pay attention to the people who actually know what it was, and believe them instead.

https://kcls.org/news/kcls-responds-to- ... itiatives/
It was a true story then - thanks for the confirmation Peter that's helpful.

Your link reveals that the mind games DA was attempting were over the use of the word "training". It seems the KCLS lawyers have realised that racially segregated staff training is illegal (presumably, for now at least). And it turns out that attendance was compulsory for some staff (sorry DA). Managers were required to attend, but we are asked to believe that whatever they and other staff were expected to learn from the sessions could not possibly be called "training" (ha ha ha). Learning / training hmmm. My point stands, with or without the word training, and as it happens I think I only used that word once. DA used it repeatedly of course. Let's remove the offending word and keep it to "staff sessions", as generally I had done already.

You have to marvel at the KCLS creativity. As serious as this is, you would need a heart of stone not to laugh at the term "caucused listening sessions"! See if you can work out what attributes someone needed to attend the "People of Color" caucus. And what do you think it was that qualified a staff member to attend the "People who are White" caucus?

Maybe if America slides further backwards towards "caucused" bus seating or "caucused" water fountain signage you will realise what is happening.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by claret2018 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:44 am

I do enjoy seeing people on here trying to justify their enthusiasm for Trump without openly saying they like his racist ideologies.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by CombatClaret » Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:59 am

Republicans closely resemble autocratic parties in Hungary and Turkey
Swedish university finds ‘dramatic shift’ in GOP under Trump, shunning democratic norms and encouraging violence


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... tudy-trump
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Re: The next American President?

Post by Spijed » Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:19 am

The frightening thing about many of Trump supporters is that if he said the concentration camps in Eastern Europe were fake news the vast majority would believe him and he wouldn't lose a single vote if he said such things.

That's what's at stake.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by Clarets4me » Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:42 am

The mainstream media now universally reporting a 3% lead in Texas for Joe Biden .... if you do stay up and watch the US Presidential Election, if Georgia or Texas is called for the Democrats, you can safely go to bed .... :D

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Re: The next American President?

Post by AndrewJB » Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:58 am

KateR wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:06 pm
He did not inherit the issues where he decided to change how war would be conducted, he did not decide to finish those wars, he just decided to fight them a different way, I liked Obama but attacking Trump on war and military and saying how good Obama was is just plain rubbish. Obama had an economy which could only go one way, up and had the wars which in terms of troops could only go one way, down by bringing them home. I was fearful like many about Trump having the power of the button and how he would respond military wise, when the Iranians attacked the warship in the gulf I thought ohhh dear here we go but he certainly did not do any kneejerk reaction and at that point I relaxed regarding him and going to war. If we are talking about America going to war I would be a lot happier with Trump than Biden, I also believe the economy will be better under Trump than Biden, but there are numerous other issues that Biden would be better at I think, like someone said, it really should be about policies they bring rather than the man themselves which is mainly where we are.

Additionally, the usual suspect who bring up the Trump war monger and are proven wrong then immediately turn acknowledge another subject they think they are on safe ground with and jump on another band wagon, but he's done nothing about gun control has he.
I’ve never called Trump a war monger, but pointed out the US has wasted a lot of money maintaining military hegemony over the rest of the world. They could have saved vast sums by engaging differently. The experience of Japan, Germany, and even China in the last twenty years shows its possible to prosper without a large army. Again I blame all the last presidents since WW2, but especially since the Berlin Wall fell.

If I can take you up on one point regarding Trump and the economy, he’s handed out massive tax cuts, and even before the pandemic it was apparent these hadn’t paid for themselves in economic growth. While you might appreciate having more in your pocket, do you not fear for the impact of the growing (possibly even unplayable) debt? Also the hit to public services, which a lot of people say are at breaking point there.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by android » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:06 am

Spijed wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:19 am
The frightening thing about many of Trump supporters is that if he said the concentration camps in Eastern Europe were fake news the vast majority would believe him and he wouldn't lose a single vote if he said such things.

That's what's at stake.
I don't know any Trump supporters but that seems a slightly OTT comment about half (well 40% plus) of American people. Trump is grim in many ways, and Crosspool listed a few, and I can't disagree that it will be good to see the back of him in many respects. The problem is that the replacement is not looking good at all and likely to be worse on some important issues. It does appear that at least we will have a vaccine for Trump Derangement Syndrome.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:27 am

It’s just scary to think they could have four more years with a guy in charge who genuinely thought injecting people with bleach could cure coronavirus.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by KateR » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:54 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:58 am
I’ve never called Trump a war monger, but pointed out the US has wasted a lot of money maintaining military hegemony over the rest of the world. They could have saved vast sums by engaging differently. The experience of Japan, Germany, and even China in the last twenty years shows its possible to prosper without a large army. Again I blame all the last presidents since WW2, but especially since the Berlin Wall fell.

If I can take you up on one point regarding Trump and the economy, he’s handed out massive tax cuts, and even before the pandemic it was apparent these hadn’t paid for themselves in economic growth. While you might appreciate having more in your pocket, do you not fear for the impact of the growing (possibly even unplayable) debt? Also the hit to public services, which a lot of people say are at breaking point there.
I didn't mean you personally in terms of Trump being called a war monger, if it came across that way I apologize. I am all for reduced spending and so is he which is why he is putting pressure on NATO and talking about scaling back, but obviously for all Europeans and others it's the worry over Russia I think.

I think he was doing well with the economy and as I said so did Obama, but I am not convinced with Biden's policies, as I said and his spending seems even worse than Trump, the debt is going to be bad for so many countries after this virus, going to be difficult for whoever takes over. I do believe Biden will look a lot better as a President than Trump but whether he will be better overall I don't know, I think Biden will win but not by as much as many seem to believe, wont be surprised if Trump pips it at the end.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by ZizkovClaret » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:58 pm

Call me a lefty liberal snowflake if you will, but Trump separating kids from their parents and keeping them in cages means im rooting for the other guy.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by KateR » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:21 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:58 pm
Call me a lefty liberal snowflake if you will, but Trump separating kids from their parents and keeping them in cages means im rooting for the other guy.
I wouldn't call you a left liberal snowflake at all, but I would call you someone who is not looking at the total facts when making that statement.

I am 100% opposed to separating children from their parents also, so I 100% agree with you on that point but you seem to think the other guy is blameless and has no involvement in this sort of activity, and that's where I disagree with you, but it's a complicated discussion, so I will bring you back to the very beginning of the statement.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by Spijed » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:24 pm

Regarding whether people think the polls are wrong or not, this is quite telling:

https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1 ... 0997928962

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Re: The next American President?

Post by ZizkovClaret » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:25 pm

KateR wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:21 pm
I wouldn't call you a left liberal snowflake at all, but I would call you someone who is not looking at the total facts when making that statement.

I am 100% opposed to separating children from their parents also, so I 100% agree with you on that point but you seem to think the other guy is blameless and has no involvement in this sort of activity, and that's where I disagree with you, but it's a complicated discussion, so I will bring you back to the very beginning of the statement.
Biden is far from perfect, but Trump and his clan are abhorrent. So as it is a choice between the two, i'd hold my nose and put the x next to Biden.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by KateR » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:27 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:25 pm
Biden is far from perfect, but Trump and his clan are abhorrent. So as it is a choice between the two, i'd hold my nose and put the x next to Biden.
OK, understood

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Re: The next American President?

Post by FCBurnley » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:52 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:25 pm
Biden is far from perfect, but Trump and his clan are abhorrent. So as it is a choice between the two, i'd hold my nose and put the x next to Biden.
I hope everybody puts the x next to Biden. Maybe that’s what happens in Czech Rep.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by PeterWilton » Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:23 pm

KateR wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:21 pm
I wouldn't call you a left liberal snowflake at all, but I would call you someone who is not looking at the total facts when making that statement.

I am 100% opposed to separating children from their parents also, so I 100% agree with you on that point but you seem to think the other guy is blameless and has no involvement in this sort of activity, and that's where I disagree with you, but it's a complicated discussion, so I will bring you back to the very beginning of the statement.
Here's what happened.

Since forever a tiny minority of illegal immigrants experienced child seperation because the parent(s) was arrested on a crime so serious that they went to jail, and so the kids were removed from their custody.

What Trump did was lower the bar of seriousness so low that parents were arrested and jailed simply for the act of being an illegal immigrant.

Now, you will ask "they why be an illegal immigrant?" And to that I would explain that they had no choice a lot of the time. The Trump administration moved their border checks into Mexico so that when asylum seekers reached them and tried to claim asylum they could be refused immediately, because they weren't on US soil. So the only way to get into the US in order to claim asylum would be to enter illegally.

And that's why the tired old defence of Trump's act of genocide doesn't actually hold water. It's bs.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by KateR » Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:48 pm

PeterWilton wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:23 pm
Here's what happened.

Since forever a tiny minority of illegal immigrants experienced child seperation because the parent(s) was arrested on a crime so serious that they went to jail, and so the kids were removed from their custody.

What Trump did was lower the bar of seriousness so low that parents were arrested and jailed simply for the act of being an illegal immigrant.

Now, you will ask "they why be an illegal immigrant?" And to that I would explain that they had no choice a lot of the time. The Trump administration moved their border checks into Mexico so that when asylum seekers reached them and tried to claim asylum they could be refused immediately, because they weren't on US soil. So the only way to get into the US in order to claim asylum would be to enter illegally.

And that's why the tired old defence of Trump's act of genocide doesn't actually hold water. It's bs.

here's what is happening, your use of the word "genocide" in relation to Trumps actions shows clearly your bigotry, very simple and people like you offer nothing but hatred to numerous threads and therefore you are irrelevant, which is why so many people laugh at you.

Further beyond that, if you were aiming that at me, I and to the best of my knowledge, no one has defended the Trump regime in what they did regarding separating children and putting them in cages, yet again demonstrating your lack of being able to have any kind of debate with anyone, because you simple can't read/understand English.

What's even more outrageous, is you invent your own versions of facts as you go along.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by PeterWilton » Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:57 pm

KateR wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:48 pm
here's what is happening, your use of the word "genocide" in relation to Trumps actions shows clearly your bigotry, very simple and people like you offer nothing but hatred to numerous threads and therefore you are irrelevant, which is why so many people laugh at you.

Further beyond that, if you were aiming that at me, I and to the best of my knowledge, no one has defended the Trump regime in what they did regarding separating children and putting them in cages, yet again demonstrating your lack of being able to have any kind of debate with anyone, because you simple can't read/understand English.

What's even more outrageous, is you invent your own versions of facts as you go along.

A few corrections. It's not bigotry to calls what Trump did an act of genocide since that's what the UN definitions of acts of genocide call it.

It has been a commonly used defence of Trump's policy of removing kids from their parents and locking them all in cages to claim that his predecessor also had the same policy this defence is not based on facts.

This person has failed to actually argue against what I said and instead reacted emotionally and uncritically claiming that I'm wrong without bothering to even try to explain how I'm wrong.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 pm

android wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:24 am
It was a true story then - thanks for the confirmation Peter that's helpful.

Your link reveals that the mind games DA was attempting were over the use of the word "training". It seems the KCLS lawyers have realised that racially segregated staff training is illegal (presumably, for now at least). And it turns out that attendance was compulsory for some staff (sorry DA). Managers were required to attend, but we are asked to believe that whatever they and other staff were expected to learn from the sessions could not possibly be called "training" (ha ha ha). Learning / training hmmm. My point stands, with or without the word training, and as it happens I think I only used that word once. DA used it repeatedly of course. Let's remove the offending word and keep it to "staff sessions", as generally I had done already.

You have to marvel at the KCLS creativity. As serious as this is, you would need a heart of stone not to laugh at the term "caucused listening sessions"! See if you can work out what attributes someone needed to attend the "People of Color" caucus. And what do you think it was that qualified a staff member to attend the "People who are White" caucus?

Maybe if America slides further backwards towards "caucused" bus seating or "caucused" water fountain signage you will realise what is happening.
It wasnt training and they were not learning anything - in fact it was the opposite. The race equity consultants were asked to come into the organisation to improve the work environment and they suggested a good starting point was to try and understand the employees current thoughts and feelings

It was the consultants who were looking to learn from the employees but it was optional. The managers had to attend so they could support their people with questions going forward but they were under no obligation to take part in the discussions or contribute

To compare this to the social ills of real racial segregation is a bit sick but if you parrot right wing race baiting media sources then your gonna sound like a sad little race baiter yourself

Why dont you share your sources from where you dragged out this nothing story, that is unless you are worried about showing the kind of news sources and people you follow and agree with?

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Re: The next American President?

Post by PeterWilton » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:00 am

It's called concern trolling, devil's advocate. Android is faking concern for something they don't care about in order to troll.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by FCBurnley » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:11 am

Amy Coney Barrett confirmed to the Supreme Court. She will be sworn in at approx 9 pm ET tonight. A huge win for the President and the GOP.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by KateR » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:42 am

ACB is a saga I don't really agree with and it should have waited until after the election and don't see it as a huge win personally.

On another point, it's nice DA has made a new friend.
This user liked this post: android

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Re: The next American President?

Post by Swizzlestick » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:45 am

It doesn’t seem like a huge win at all considering some of the commentary I’ve read, including from card carrying Republicans. Leaves a very nasty taste and will galvanise the blue vote if anything.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by PeterWilton » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:53 am

FCBurnley wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:11 am
Amy Coney Barrett confirmed to the Supreme Court. She will be sworn in at approx 9 pm ET tonight. A huge win for the President and the GOP.
It's definitely good for the president and the GOP. Bad for literally everyone else.

Hopefully Biden will rebalanced the court by adding 3 judges of his choosing. Starting with Merrick Garland.
Dems need to start playing the game by the same rules as the GOP.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by FCBurnley » Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:02 am

PeterWilton wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:53 am
It's definitely good for the president and the GOP. Bad for literally everyone else.

Hopefully Biden will rebalanced the court by adding 3 judges of his choosing. Starting with Merrick Garland.
Dems need to start playing the game by the same rules as the GOP.
So you are suggesting a SCOTUS of 12 judges and Biden to rewrite The Constitution ? Good luck with that

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Re: The next American President?

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:11 am

FCBurnley wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:11 am
Amy Coney Barrett confirmed to the Supreme Court. She will be sworn in at approx 9 pm ET tonight. A huge win for the President and the GOP.
only a win if Trump gets back in and the plebs retain the senate. If they lose both of those then that's the end of the Republican party as you know it. The Dems will **** them over (and rightly so) at every turn - you reap what you sow McConnell

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Re: The next American President?

Post by android » Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:24 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 pm
It wasnt training and they were not learning anything - in fact it was the opposite. The race equity consultants were asked to come into the organisation to improve the work environment and they suggested a good starting point was to try and understand the employees current thoughts and feelings

It was the consultants who were looking to learn from the employees but it was optional. The managers had to attend so they could support their people with questions going forward but they were under no obligation to take part in the discussions or contribute

To compare this to the social ills of real racial segregation is a bit sick but if you parrot right wing race baiting media sources then your gonna sound like a sad little race baiter yourself

Why dont you share your sources from where you dragged out this nothing story, that is unless you are worried about showing the kind of news sources and people you follow and agree with?
Yes, it makes total sense that KCLS paid the consultants for the benefit of the consultants and did not expect their own KCLS employees to learn anything! KCLS's statement was presumably very carefully worded in order to try to avoid legal action. It's ok to use a bit of common sense in these circumstances when reading their statement and looking at the other evidence. However well meaning it might have been, the racial segregation was real not make believe.

I was going to answer your questions DA but it's all become predictably childish and it's just not worth the trouble. First you throw out the silly "sad little race baiter" slur followed up by Peter's pathetic comment. You seem to have thrown in the towel on debating me and only want to debate the imaginary me that lives in your head!

Anyway, these race issues are close to home for me and it's not just a silly boys clever dick waving contest. This stuff is the thin end of the wedge of the way things are developing and it matters. I will continue to oppose racial segregation methods.

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Re: The next American President?

Post by PeterWilton » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:31 am

FCBurnley wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:02 am
So you are suggesting a SCOTUS of 12 judges and Biden to rewrite The Constitution ? Good luck with that
Yes, a SCOTUS with 12 judges is my suggestion, and no it doesn't require rewriting the constitution

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