VAR offsides in Eredivisie

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ClaretTony
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VAR offsides in Eredivisie

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:03 pm

I was reading this morning the the Eredivisie in the Netherlands have adopted their own VAR for offside decisions. It’s based on two lines and I didn’t fully understand it but basically if it’s a very close call then it stays with whatever the assistant referee has given, a bit like umpire’s call in cricket.

Apparently it is similar to what we wanted to bring in this season only for it to be blocked by FIFA.
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Re: VAR offsides in Eredivisie

Post by Bosscat » Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:09 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:03 pm
I was reading this morning the the Eredivisie in the Netherlands have adopted their own VAR for offside decisions. It’s based on two lines and I didn’t fully understand it but basically if it’s a very close call then it stays with whatever the assistant referee has given, a bit like umpire’s call in cricket.

Apparently it is similar to what we wanted to bring in this season only for it to be blocked by FIFA.
Has to be a better way than the current ridiculousness we have ....

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Re: VAR offsides in Eredivisie

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:09 pm

This is moving towards how we use VAR for non offside decisions. If we could move the non offside decisions more towards the centre so it didnt have to be such an obvious error to override then for me we are getting to the happy medium

Worth noting that the more sensible and less black and white you make the rules then the more inconsistency you will see as that is the refereeing trade off we always have to make

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Re: VAR offsides in Eredivisie

Post by Quickenthetempo » Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:22 pm

It's the one definitive thing we have with VAR and people want to change it.
I've said for years in football,there's no right and wrong decisions anymore.

They either suit you or their against you.

I would change it to feet only though and then it's far clearer for everyone to see. But not give a 4 inch leeway.

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Re: VAR offsides in Eredivisie

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:30 pm

I’d scrap offside and open the game up. Lots of space for skill players to work in.
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Re: VAR offsides in Eredivisie

Post by martin_p » Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:51 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:22 pm
It's the one definitive thing we have with VAR and people want to change it.
I've said for years in football,there's no right and wrong decisions anymore.

They either suit you or their against you.

I would change it to feet only though and then it's far clearer for everyone to see. But not give a 4 inch leeway.
We don’t have the technology to make it ‘definitive’.
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Re: VAR offsides in Eredivisie

Post by dsr » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:05 am

Easy solution to offsides. Don't draw lines on the pitch; just look at it with the naked eye and if the players are level, to normal eyesight, then it's not offside. That's the guidance given to refs when the level rule was changed 30 years ago, and that's how it still applies when there isn't VAR.

One of the stupidities of the new rule is that we have different rules for offside depending on whether a goal is scored. If two players are level to normal eyesight and the ball goes out for a corner, then the forward was onside. But if the two players are level and the ball goes in the net, then suddenly the new rule "there is no such thing as level" comes into play and the forward has a 50-50 chance depending on whether he was blinking up or down thus extending his eyelash at the wrong moment.

For corners, the forward can be behind the defender, level with the defender, or in front of the defender. For goals, the forward can only be in front or behind - he can't be level. It's lunacy.
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Re: VAR offsides in Eredivisie

Post by Paul Waine » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:17 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:22 pm

I would change it to feet only though and then it's far clearer for everyone to see. But not give a 4 inch leeway.
Agree, offside should be based on where the players' feet and toes are - and forget about their "heads, shoulders, knees and ....."

I would include a margin - to take into account that it can be difficult to pinpoint exactly where each player was at the exact point when the ball was played by attacking team. The margin should allow for players moving both towards the goal and away from the goal at the point the ball is played - by which I mean if you are a fraction off with the decision on the exact time that the ball was played then you will impact the accuracy of the exact positions of the players at that time - and both the defenders and the attackers exact positions will have changed relative to each other - so build in an agreed and standardised "margin for error."

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Re: VAR offsides in Eredivisie

Post by ecc » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:30 am

Chris Wood v West Ham.

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Re: VAR offsides in Eredivisie

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:08 am

it's all a simple fix, daylight and you are onside, anything else you aren't. If it's half an inch of someone's heel then the attacker gets the benefit of the doubt. As it is, decisions take too long, there was one this weekend that you could see from 1 replay that the attacker was offside yet it took them a minute to **** about.

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Re: VAR offsides in Eredivisie

Post by superdimitri » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:35 am

Generally don't mind how long it takes to come to a decision but I'd like to see more consistency on what we see checked.

For example Long allegedly being fouled in the build up to Newcastle United's goal or the challenge in the box against him vs West Bromwich Albion.

I think it's still pretty obvious there's some big club bias and also a reluctance for the video referees to override the referees decision.

Could be solved a bit like they do with stewarding in motorsports. An independent team who aren't referees and ex player with no affiliation handling the decisions.

I love VAR and have no doubt it improves the game and it will only get better with time. Sorry to say it but I don't agree with it spoiling it like many do, but I do feel sorry if it does spoil the game for them.

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Re: VAR offsides in Eredivisie

Post by Zlatan » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:41 am

I think in Eredivisie they are attempting to take into account the margin of error for the technology being used, which is a good thing. I think I proved on a previous post that in reality with the frame rates and resolution of the cameras being used that there can be a margin of error of up to 30cm (I think, can’t be bothered to recalculate) so I suspect their lines will allow for this.

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Re: VAR offsides in Eredivisie

Post by lucs86 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:29 am

For me there needs to be a change to offsides, handballs and goal checks.
Offsides should be called when there's a clear margin, something like daylight based off foot position. The rule was put there to stop forwards goal hanging - gaining advantage by being in advance of the defence. Calls made on millimetres of body parts where players are, to the naked eye, in line with eachother is silly and against the spirit of the game. So yeah get rid of the lines and put a time limit on the decision (like in the US?).
The handball law was there to stop players using their hands and arms not to stop them having hands and arms. It's maybe a tougher one to call but the rule should go back to something based on perceived intent, the handball being 'deliberate'. Not sure it can be fixed though with replays etc now, will probably always be controversial, but incidents should be rare.
They need to stop the checks on all goals in my opinion, it kills the joy waiting to see if there's been a slight foul on the way. I'd like to see the referee (and assistants) only send to VAR the ones where they've seen something they want to look at again. If the ref and assistants have seen nothing then the goal is a goal.
It's farcical at the moment but I think it will improve gradually and some ideas from other authorities and sports (each team having 1 or 2 reviews maybe?) will eventually make things better.

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Re: VAR offsides in Eredivisie

Post by IanMcL » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:03 pm

If it is not clearly offside, you are on, in my view.
When they do the VAR, they stop tge action at a certain point.

If you want offside let it go forward a millisecond or 2 and the player under scrutiny is a foot further forward and the defender trying to play him offside a few inches further upfield.

Depends what outcome the prem wants as to where the stop point is set. Sometimes you see passers foot nicely planted and other times the foot and ball look like an action shot. At tge other end, that is huge distance.

Prem favourites win!

Liverpool under handicap this season, as Man City was last. Otherwise, business as usual.

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