If it doesn't happen soon then it will be too late to save thousands of lives.

Three week total national lockdown for 21 days then all the country to exit at Tier 2.

You gonna pay my rent then?

Show me the evidence that it works.

Another effing messageboard expert, who probably hadn't even heard of pandemic prior to March

Do you guys not think drastic positive action needs to be taken?

BBC News - Covid-19: Nearly 100,000 catching virus every day - study
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54723962

You can tell with the interviews given today by the cabinet members who’ve been wheeled out that the second lockdown is coming.

192 cases in Wokingham which had less than 30 last month

Would be disastrous, people don't need to be forced to be
locked down they can decide for themselves im middle
60s and am against lockdown, the young uns will be paying for this for ever!!!

mkmel wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:42 pm

Do you guys not think drastic positive action needs to be taken?

BBC News - Covid-19: Nearly 100,000 catching virus every day - study
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54723962

All the talk is about what needs to be done to stop people dying of covid, and none of the talk (or at least, far too little) is about stopping people dying of everything else.

I don't look back on the 7 months since March 23rd and think "that was a wonderful success, let's do it again". I want to see other options considered. And I want to see properly considered statistics about all the missed cancer operations and tests and heart operations and tests to see a best estimate of the deaths this lockdown has cost.

Anyway, there are already existing threads about this. It needs merging.

dammed if you do, dammed if you don't

dsr wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:03 pm

All the talk is about what needs to be done to stop people dying of covid, and none of the talk (or at least, far too little) is about stopping people dying of everything else.

That's exactly what lockdown a lockdown would do, prevent the NHS becoming 100% Covid focused and allow other treatments to take place.
Because If we don't reverse the infection rate now that's what the NHS will become.

Anyone that wants to self isolate is more than welcome to do so from my point of view, but my family and I haven’t been locked down since day one (key workers) so I’m not about to start now.

dsr wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:40 pm

Show me the evidence that it works.

I can show you evidence that the free for all no masking definitely doesn't work !! USA................then compare that to Canada

And repeat every few months until "the scientists" stumble across a different approach!

I'm not sure why Stevenage should be locked down due to high volume of cases in Newcastle?

Will flights / travel to and from Europe be stopped during this inevitable second lockdown? There was no ban in the first wave with people flying into Luton on Wizz Air every few minutes, why lock down locals and allow non locals to come and go as normal?

Plot and Government have become separated it seems.

My daughter was admitted to Blackburn Royal on Sunday with Covid. She is now on life support and we have been told it could be for months. She is 48 with 3 children. Suggest any on here who think this is not an extremely serious situation should THINK AGAIN. Paying her rent is the last thing on our minds !!!

aclaretinstevenage wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:17 pm

And repeat every few months until "the scientists" stumble across a different approach!

Until a vaccine

I'm not sure why Stevenage should be locked down due to high volume of cases in Newcastle?

Because Stevenage is just a little behind Newcastle in time, they're not beating the virus.

Will flights / travel to and from Europe be stopped during this inevitable second lockdown? There was no ban in the first wave with people flying into Luton on Wizz Air every few minutes, why lock down locals and allow non locals to come and go as normal?

We are locking down non-locals, people entering the UK are required to self isolate for two weeks

Plot and Government have become separated it seems.

Scientific advice and the Government have become separated

Next!

Edited out of respect of a previous post

FCBurnley wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:18 pm

My daughter was admitted to Blackburn Royal on Sunday with Covid. She is now on life support and we have been told it could be for months. She is 48 with 3 children. Suggest any on here who think this is not an extremely serious situation should THINK AGAIN. Paying her rent is the last thing on our minds !!!

I'm really sorry to hear that, I hope she's on the mend soon! I also hope yourself and the children are coping as best as they can.

I was listening to Radio2 earlier and there were people on moaning about children not being allowed to go trick or treating this year, it puts in into perspective.

FCBurnley wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:18 pm

My daughter was admitted to Blackburn Royal on Sunday with Covid. She is now on life support and we have been told it could be for months. She is 48 with 3 children. Suggest any on here who think this is not an extremely serious situation should THINK AGAIN. Paying her rent is the last thing on our minds !!!

Jeez, sorry to hear that. Hope she makes a full recovery. All the best.

claptrappers_union wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:25 pm

Since testing became available, I've known only a few people who have tested positive but they have stayed at home and isolated... then got better - is that a 'case'? Or is a hospital admission a case?

Living in a highest risk area, the premise of another lockdown, closing businesses etc etc - you'd think people would be dropping dead all around me? I honestly don't know one person whose been to hospital from it... I'm not denying that its very serious, but that's my perspective from someone living in a high risk area.

A case is a positive test.

It's very possible not to know anyone hospitalized and you're right it's very serious. If you were seeing people 'dropping dead around you 'that would be a disease with a mortality rate that would probably have caused the collapse of society as we know it.

CombatClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:08 pm

That's exactly what lockdown a lockdown would do, prevent the NHS becoming 100% Covid focused and allow other treatments to take place.
Because If we don't reverse the infection rate now that's what the NHS will become.

That's what the NHS has already become. Have you rung 111 recently? Do you know how many Covid messages you have to get to before any other subject is mentioned? Even on the menu Press 1 for covid, Press 2 for anything else, you still get a long covid spiel.

dsr wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:32 pm

That's what the NHS has already become. Have you rung 111 recently? Do you know how many Covid messages you have to get to before any other subject is mentioned? Even on the menu Press 1 for covid, Press 2 for anything else, you still get a long covid spiel.

Since January I've had two non-covid long term conditions diagnosed and treated requiring one A&E visit, multiple doctor visits, screenings, blood tests and telephone consultations and prescriptions.
The NHS was able to cope with me because of the lockdown not in spite of it.

One thing I think is certain. We will be having a second lockdown sooner or later.

Thanks for the support but I just wanted to try and make people realize just how bad this pandemic is. She tested positive a couple of months ago and made a quick recovery. Thought she was safe but apparently they have now found out that the antibodies have a limited life. So don’t think you are safe if you have already had Covid. The worst part is that no visitors are allowed ( for obvious reasons) so she was alone when she was told she was told she was being put into a medically induced coma. She was allowed to make phone calls but understandably was too upset. So if you want to spend a few months alone ( or maybe die) then carry on ignoring the medical advice. Lockdown is a small price to pay.

claptrappers_union wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:25 pm

Edited out of respect of a previous post

I'd have preferred you'd left it up to put paid to the idea that just because you don't know anyone in hospital it's can't be as serious as all that.

I'm not saying you've expressed this at all but usually the most fervent anti-lockdown voices have also not had Covid touch their lives, maybe only a fall in income, another reason why they shout because woe betide someone else's suffering hit them in the wallet or heaven forbid add 10 seconds to an NHS 111 call.
The people with loved ones in hospitals or cemeteries know why something should be done.

CombatClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:52 pm

I'd have preferred you'd left it up to put paid to the idea that just because you don't know anyone in hospital it's can't be as serious as all that.

I'm not saying you've expressed this at all but usually the most fervent anti-lockdown voices have also not had Covid touch their lives, maybe only a fall in income, another reason why they shout because woe betide someone else's suffering hit them in the wallet or heaven forbid add 10 seconds to an NHS 111 call.
The people with loved ones in hospitals or cemeteries know why something should be done.

I took it down to re-write it later on, but properly because it could easily be taken out of context. Especially when another poster says they have a family member who is unwell. I don't want to be misunderstood.

FCBurnley wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:18 pm

My daughter was admitted to Blackburn Royal on Sunday with Covid. She is now on life support and we have been told it could be for months. She is 48 with 3 children. Suggest any on here who think this is not an extremely serious situation should THINK AGAIN. Paying her rent is the last thing on our minds !!!

that's terrible mate, praying for a positive outcome for you all

My stepson is currently in Blackburn and has high potassium levels which can trigger a heart attack. However he cant be put in the ICU because of covid patients.
There are now around 200 inpatients between Blackburn and Burnley with Covid.

Xmas would be perfect time for a national lockdown

FCBurnley wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:18 pm

My daughter was admitted to Blackburn Royal on Sunday with Covid. She is now on life support and we have been told it could be for months. She is 48 with 3 children. Suggest any on here who think this is not an extremely serious situation should THINK AGAIN. Paying her rent is the last thing on our minds !!!

Truly awful news. I’m keeping everything crossed for you that she pulls through.

FCBurnley wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:18 pm

My daughter was admitted to Blackburn Royal on Sunday with Covid. She is now on life support and we have been told it could be for months. She is 48 with 3 children. Suggest any on here who think this is not an extremely serious situation should THINK AGAIN. Paying her rent is the last thing on our minds !!!

Very sorry to hear FCBurnley. Does she have any underlying health conditions and/or work where Covid is more likely to be found?

Both my wife and I tested positive for Covid 19 recently, she has been in Blackburn Royal with other issues for 10 Days and is now having surgery today or tomorrow. She has overcome her symptoms thank goodness as I wouldn't want her under a GA otherwise. Thankfully I feel so lucky not to have serious symptoms, me having COPD, CKD and recent stent surgery. I will say that despite only mild symptoms the after affects are difficult. Brushing the Cat, washing up, going up and down the stairs leaves me completely breathless and from walking 5 or so miles a few times a week and doing well at Cardiac Rehab at the gym, I am now back to post surgery day one again. I have been without taste or smell for 2 weeks as well.

I don't have an answer, nobody does but it is real, it takes lives, it destroys others.

West Yorkshire in tier 3 from Monday, Tees Valley in talks about it.
How much more of the north is actually outside tier 3 now?

Cirrus_Minor wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:35 pm

One thing I think is certain. We will be having a second lockdown sooner or later.

They’re halfway through a ‘firebreak’ lockdown in Wales.. any suggestion it’s working there yet?

It sort of worked in March/April, but much of the fear factor for many and willingness to work together has long since gone for several reasons. Enough people just aren’t going to voluntarily lockdown again and there’s no realistic way to enforce one.

Unfortunately muddling through until some sort of vaccine arrives is pretty much it now.

NottsClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:24 pm

They’re halfway through a ‘firebreak’ lockdown in Wales.. any suggestion it’s working there yet?

We won't know for 4 weeks after it's finished, that how the infection > death lag works. Kudos to the Welsh government who said this from the start, having the balls to say 'you won't know it's worked until after we go through with it', instead of dither and delay.

Everyone who will die in the next four weeks has probably already been infected. As the cases increase day on day, four weeks down the line so will the deaths. And cases have been increasing a lot.

The year is 2025. Britain is just about to enter it's 7th national lockdown.

"This time it will work. When we come out this time, the virus will finally have gotten the message and it will be gone. This time, it won't behave in the way respiratory viruses do and start infecting people again. And if it does, we'll just have to have an 8th lockdown, as the previous 7 worked so well in suppressing it"

Taiwan, country of 26 million. Implemented compulsory masks, hand sanitizer and temp checks from the first week this all started. Should we learn from them?

ksrclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:32 pm

The year is 2025. Britain is just about to enter it's 7th national lockdown.

"This time it will work. When we come out this time, the virus will finally have gotten the message and it will be gone. This time, it won't behave in the way respiratory viruses do and start infecting people again. And if it does, we'll just have to have an 8th lockdown, as the previous 7 worked so well in suppressing it"

The year is 2021, Covid vaccines are being effectively distributed and ksrclarel looks like a bit of an idiot.

Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:17 pm

West Yorkshire in tier 3 from Monday, Tees Valley in talks about it.
How much more of the north is actually outside tier 3 now?

Tyne & Wear and Northumberland are in tier 2.

Here in Cumbria ( apart from Barrow ) we're fortunate enough to remain in tier 1, as is North Yorkshire.

Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:17 pm

West Yorkshire in tier 3 from Monday, Tees Valley in talks about it.
How much more of the north is actually outside tier 3 now?

No surprises. Although I expected Tier 3 in West Yorkshire at the same time as Liverpool.

FCBurnley wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:18 pm

My daughter was admitted to Blackburn Royal on Sunday with Covid. She is now on life support and we have been told it could be for months. She is 48 with 3 children. Suggest any on here who think this is not an extremely serious situation should THINK AGAIN. Paying her rent is the last thing on our minds !!!

So sorry to hear about your daughter .sincerely hope she will soon be well again.Treatment now is so much better than it was when all this started.

CombatClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:36 pm

The year is 2021, Covid vaccines are being effectively distributed and ksrclarel looks like a bit of an idiot.

That set in stone, is it?

And if you really believe that a vaccine distributed will eliminate a respiratory virus like this at all, never mind within the same year of its distribution, then you are going to be very disappointed. Or happy, depending on whether you're still a lockdown fanatic. Either way, the virus won't go away in 2021, if at all.

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:35 pm

Taiwan, country of 26 million. Implemented compulsory masks, hand sanitizer and temp checks from the first week this all started. Should we learn from them?

Also implemented an immediate two week quarantine for anyone entering the country, poured resources into testing & tracing early on. By February they had an effective app to monitor people coming into contact with people quarantining.

All this complemented by effective social care. As well as free access to testing, the government also finances the cost of 14 day quarantine. Everyone under quarantine was compensated with USD $35 per day. Local government staff make daily phone calls to those under quarantine to offer assistance, and provide them with a care package that includes 14 surgical masks, detailed instructions on quarantine, free online access to exercise videos, and free online access to movies. Taiwan’s government recognizes that the general public are a crucial partner for the success of pandemic control.

That's what fast, clear and effective government response looks like, almost the complete opposite to what we saw.

Has anyone who has caught this done something they wish they hadn’t or have any idea how they caught it ? I mean in terms of not adhering to rules or some sort of contact with others. It would be good for people to tell others so that they obey rules.

ksrclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:41 pm

And if you really believe that a vaccine distributed will eliminate a respiratory virus like this at all, never mind within the same year of its distribution, then you are going to be very disappointed. Or happy, depending on whether you're still a lockdown fanatic. Either way, the virus won't go away in 2021, if at all.

I completely understand it will be like other viruses and likely require regular vaccine booster and remain endemic in the population forever.

I do not like lockdowns, I do not enjoy them, I will not be pleased if we have to do them again because I get to say 'I was right' so labeling anyone a 'lockdown fanatic' for seeing them as a one of the many tools we may have to use is derisive and immature, just like suggesting we will be in them until 2025.

CombatClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:49 pm

I completely understand it will be like the flu and probably require regular vaccine booster and remain endemic in the population forever.

I do not like lockdowns, I do not enjoy them, I will not be pleased if we have to do them again because I get to say 'I was right' so labeling anyone a 'lockdown fanatic' for seeing them as a one of the many tools we may have to use is devisive and immature, just like suggesting we will be in them until 2025.

You're assuming that any vaccine will work effectively, consistently, and will not confer any long-term deleterious side effects, which may lead to its removal from distribution. That is a huge assumption to make for a vaccine that has been developed in under a year, bypassing and truncating many of the long-term safety studies.

I suppose my wider point is that we cannot hang our hats on a vaccine being the answer. It would be a huge bonus if it were, but it cannot be relied upon. And if it does not work, locking down seems to be the only thing tactic anybody is able to consider.

ksrclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:41 pm

That set in stone, is it?

And if you really believe that a vaccine distributed will eliminate a respiratory virus like this at all, never mind within the same year of its distribution, then you are going to be very disappointed. Or happy, depending on whether you're still a lockdown fanatic. Either way, the virus won't go away in 2021, if at all.

Do viruses actually go away? Have we eradicated any? I don't know.

One thing I think we can all be fairly sure of is that a 3 week lock-down (a real one, not like our original attempt) will not stop the pandemic.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:55 pm

Do viruses actually go away? Have we eradicated any? I don't know.
One thing I think we can all be fairly sure of is that a 3 week lock-down (a real one, not like our original attempt) will not stop the pandemic.

No one has ever said lockdowns stop viruses, it will be put in place to stop healthcare being overwhelmed so they can save as many salvable lives as possible. And by not overwhelming health services we can treat other non-covid health issues as myself and others here can attest to over the last 8months.

We've eradicated the smallpox virus and through vaccines made many more bearable so that normal life can continue, that's our aim.

CombatClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:00 pm

No one has ever said lockdowns stop viruses, it will be put in place to stop healthcare being overwhelmed so they can save as many salvable lives as possible. And by not overwhelming health services we can treat other non-covid health issues as myself and others here can attest to over the last 8months.

We've eradicated the smallpox virus and through vaccines made many more bearable so that normal life can continue, that's our aim.

I suppose we have eradicated smallpox. Apart from keeping the virus in labs, of course.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:55 pm

Do viruses actually go away? Have we eradicated any? I don't know.

One thing I think we can all be fairly sure of is that a 3 week lock-down (a real one, not like our original attempt) will not stop the pandemic.

Very, very few. Smallpox certainly, I think there's one another virus that has been declared eradicated. God knows how many different viruses there are capable of infecting human cells, but I'd have thought it to be in the hundreds of thousands. Of course not all of them cause serious disease, but 2 out of a few hundred thousand isn't a favourable ratio.

As for the lockdown, the argument I keep hearing is that it's done to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed and to keep treatment of other diseases going. Well the latest estimate of undiagnosed cancers in the UK over the lockdown period was 50,000. The number of people dying in their homes of other diseases was way above the yearly average. So that was a complete disaster as well. Education, mental health, the economy, unemployment, deaths from other non-communicable diseases; and we're still back to square one.

Another lockdown will definitely be the answer this time, though.