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A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:06 pm
by Rileybobs
Firstly, that was a very disappointing performance and it's hard to remain positive, especially as it's become the norm recently. I think Dyche will view things differently though. He's a very pragmatic person and I think he will see consecutive clean sheets away from home as a good building block. Our back five is now back to full strength and the fact that we got anything from today's game is testament to the importance of that.
Dyche will know that we have the players to score goals at the other end of the pitch and if you can clean sheets you're going to pick up points. Our attacking players are desperately out of form but they haven't become poor players over night. I think Dyche will be confident that things will click.
Before anyone jumps down my throat for being a happy clapper, I couldn't be less positive about our performances so far this season, and tonight was no exception. We've been far from good enough and won't stay in this division unless things improve massively. Taken in isolation though, a point at Brighton is a decent result, and I think Dyche will see this as a base to build on with an almost full squad to pick from next week.
He needs to earn his coin now and get the positivity back into this group of players.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:11 pm
by Nonayforever
Agree with most of what you say, but i do think the home and away advantage / disadvantage has now disappeared with the stadium having no crowds.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:13 pm
by tiger76
Rileybobs wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:06 pm
Firstly, that was a very disappointing performance and it's hard to remain positive, especially as it's become the norm recently. I think Dyche will view things differently though. He's a very pragmatic person and I think he will see consecutive clean sheets away from home as a good building block. Our back five is now back to full strength and the fact that we got anything from today's game is testament to the importance of that.
Dyche will know that we have the players to score goals at the other end of the pitch and if you can clean sheets you're going to pick up points. Our attacking players are desperately out of form but they haven't become poor players over night. I think Dyche will be confident that things will click.
Before anyone jumps down my throat for being a happy clapper, I couldn't be less positive about our performances so far this season, and tonight was no exception. We've been far from good enough and won't stay in this division unless things improve massively. Taken in isolation though, a point at Brighton is a decent result, and I think Dyche will see this as a base to build on with an almost full squad to pick from next week.
He needs to earn his coin now and get the positivity back into this group of players.
This is Sean's thought's from the BBC, pretty much what you said, happy with the clean sheet, but he knows we have to get better going forwards.
I'm not sure I'd describe 3 of our last 4 performances as good, adequate maybe, but not good that's for sure.
We looked more like ourselves'
Burnley manager Sean Dyche to BBC Sport: "We didn't create as much as you'd like. It's tough when you're rebuilding. I thought the mentality was right. We looked more like ourselves with our defensive shape and urgency.
"We know we have to create better chances but it's a base to build on. Ben Mee will get fitter and sharper.
"There were moments where we had a good foothold and we defended well when we had to.
"Three of the last four [performances were good]. We're never a million miles away. We need to get on the right side of margins. It needs to happen quickly."
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:33 pm
by expoultryboy
I agree our back 5 played ok tonight ( lowts got lost a few times) , but we play and set up the same way every game . Teams know we'll go 4-4-2 and mainly just lump it up towards the front 2 . Once again our midfield was over run tonight , so why not change the formation to 4-5-1 when this is happening ? Last season at palace we played some good football with dwight in a more central role in what looked more like a 4-3-3 set up .
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:43 pm
by warksclaret
We have gone on runs before when starting from a 0-0 result. If we can get Dwight pressing hard down the left the goals will come
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:49 pm
by jurek
Dyche is relatively stubborn in terms of changing things but then again apart
from up front he's got little to play with. We're not firing in midfield or up front.
If, for instance, he gave McNeil a rest then who does he bring in?
Both Brady and JBG haven't really impressed too much and probably need at least a few games
before they get any where near.
We're short in midfield and Cork coming back may nor make that much difference.
Maybe Benson is worth a punt?
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:53 pm
by Burnleyareback2
I’m happy with that. Reminded me of the actions we had to take when SD took over. Stop conceding and build from there.
Tonight was almost about getting Ben Mee back in the team and putting keeping the ball out of the net. We will start the season from here, a week or so of training and we will be ready to go.
UTC
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:55 pm
by Rileybobs
jurek wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:49 pm
Dyche is relatively stubborn in terms of changing things but then again apart
from up front he's got little to play with. We're not firing in midfield or up front.
If, for instance, he gave McNeil a rest then who does he bring in?
Both Brady and JBG haven't really impressed too much and probably need at least a few games
before they get any where near.
We're short in midfield and Cork coming back may nor make that much difference.
Maybe Benson is worth a punt?
I'd be looking to go for a straight swap with Jay and Vydra up front, two hungry players who have come up trumps in similar occasions before. Or maybe a 4-4-1-1 with McNeil behind a Jay in an attempt to stitch the midfield with the attack.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:56 pm
by BabylonClaret
Needs to shake it up. Brighton will be down there at the end of the season but other than the first 20 mins or so we looked to be hanging on.
Barnes and Wood have been a great partnership for us but right now that's not helping us at all. I'd start Rodriguez (in fact I'd have pushed him o at half time) and McNeill needs to get his finger out
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:02 pm
by Bin Ont Turf
Rileybobs wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:55 pm
Or maybe a 4-4-1-1 with McNeil behind a Jay in an attempt to stitch the midfield with the attack.
We'd still have the same 8 outfield players behind them, in the same rigid system.
Rodders would barely get a kick.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:07 pm
by boatshed bill
SD is a master at positive spin.
But sometimes I wonder how the players not always actively involved feel watching us.
Rodriguez and Vydra for the best examples.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:07 pm
by Rileybobs
Bin Ont Turf wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:02 pm
We'd still have the same 8 outfield players behind them, in the same rigid system.
Rodders would barely get a kick.
The rigid system suits us well when we're defending. It's transitioning defence into attack where I think we're found seriously wanting. Playing someone like Dwight who likes to drop deeper and collect the ball in tight spaces may work. Maybe it won't, but whilst I've nothing against us having 4-4-2 as our preferred system, when we go hours without even creating a chance it's probably time to try something else.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:12 pm
by NewClaret
warksclaret wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:43 pm
We have gone on runs before when starting from a 0-0 result. If we can get Dwight pressing hard down the left the goals will come
Do agree that Dwight needs to give up whatever the role is he’s playing (can’t quite work it out) and just stay wide left and run at defenders.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:14 pm
by NewClaret
boatshed bill wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:07 pm
SD is a master at positive spin.
But sometimes I wonder how the players not always actively involved feel watching us.
Rodriguez and Vydra for the best examples.
They’ll be disappointed given Wood/Barnes aren’t scoring.
That should be the same of every substitute and every team has a bench.
Admire Dyche for showing loyalty to players and belief in them. Hoping both JRod and Vydra get more time in coming games though.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:16 pm
by Bin Ont Turf
Rileybobs wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:07 pm
The rigid system suits us well when we're defending. It's transitioning defence into attack where I think we're found seriously wanting. Playing someone like Dwight who likes to drop deeper and collect the ball in tight spaces may work. Maybe it won't, but whilst I've nothing against us having 4-4-2 as our preferred system, when we go hours without even creating a chance it's probably time to try something else.
I agree, and your first point about starting Rodders and Vydra is trying something else.
But I think baby steps to begin with, like Rodders for Barnes. The Wood and Rodders partnership seemed to work okay for a while back end of last season.
Rodders can come deep, collect the ball in tight spaces, stretch it out wide and run the channels.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:18 pm
by NewClaret
tiger76 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:13 pm
"Three of the last four [performances were good]. We're never a million miles away. We need to get on the right side of margins. It needs to happen quickly."
Dyche spot on here. Problem is, I just can’t quite see us getting on the right side of those margins at the moment. Think we need to add some real quality in January to do that.
Annoyingly I’ve just watched a couple of Cardiff highlights & Harry Wilson has done well. Wasn’t quite sure he was what we needed in the summer, or now, but would’ve been an upgrade on Brady today.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:22 pm
by SalisburyClaret
We played well enough to get a point against a side that is obviously stronger than us. We did ok, kept a clean sheet, picked up no new injuries and Capt. Fantastic is back
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:23 pm
by boatshed bill
NewClaret wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:18 pm
Dyche spot on here. Problem is, I just can’t quite see us getting on the right side of those margins at the moment. Think we need to add some real quality in January to do that.
Annoyingly I’ve just watched a couple of Cardiff highlights & Harry Wilson has done well. Wasn’t quite sure he was what we needed in the summer, or now, but would’ve been an upgrade on Brady today.
Too expensive to gamble on him, I think.
TBH, if we had that money available maybe an upgrade in centre-mid would have served us better.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:28 pm
by Devils_Advocate
We missed Stephens tonight
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:30 pm
by boatshed bill
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:32 pm
by Wile E Coyote
not that long ago mcneil was being praised to the heavens by all and sundry. lots of talk of a big move etc.
but he is definately a pale shadow of his former self.
the team as a whole looks jaded, like the end of a long season outfit. there's no bite or imagination.
to assess some positions up front, the lack of opportunities is evident in most recent matches, but again the few chances usually squandered.
there are occasional flashes of good here and there, but not many.
defensively we can be efficient, but its not saying a lot that we are just good at keeping teams at bay for 90 mins.
Got to hope that things start to gel at some point, sooner rather than later with just 2 points after 7 games.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:32 pm
by tiger76
NewClaret wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:18 pm
Dyche spot on here. Problem is, I just can’t quite see us getting on the right side of those margins at the moment. Think we need to add some real quality in January to do that.
Annoyingly I’ve just watched a couple of Cardiff highlights & Harry Wilson has done well. Wasn’t quite sure he was what we needed in the summer, or now, but would’ve been an upgrade on Brady today.
He can't have done much tonight they lost at home to Bristol City, and let's be honest Cardiff are hardly tearing up the Championship are they, if we could have got him on a loan deal then maybe he'd have been worth a punt, but I have no idea if Liverpool were ever open to that option.
I agree with many other posters our major issue is in cm we were swamped in that area tonight, and this is why Brighton dominated the game, luckily for us they couldn't turn that dominance into goals, but other teams will if we are so lightweight in that area of the pitch.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:35 pm
by BabylonClaret
To be honest, although he has only made a couple of appearances and its early days and I also thought that his acquisition was fairish for the money at the time, I wish we had missed him in the summer and saved 5m for the Jan budget.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:38 pm
by Devils_Advocate
BabylonClaret wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:35 pm
I also thought that his acquisition was fairish for the money at the time
Yep I agree with this cos as the saying rightly goes if you pay peanuts you get monkeys
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:39 pm
by boatshed bill
Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:38 pm
Yep I agree with this cos as the saying rightly goes if you pay peanuts you get monkeys
Not a big fan then, DA ?
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:42 pm
by Devils_Advocate
boatshed bill wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:39 pm
Not a big fan then, DA ?
Not got much of an opinion really but just trying to join in with the polarised opinions on here and have some fun
I think I had him in my team on the 'your team for Brighton' thread
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:48 pm
by Rileybobs
Stephens has made a poor start to his Burnley career, but lets be fair, he's joined the side during a really poor spell. Too early to write him off just yet.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:00 pm
by BOYSIE31
Time for a full reset
Buy out - new owners - new manager - new players
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:01 pm
by dougcollins
McNeill's odd roving position seems to always find him in a position where he's facing inwards and has to turn the only way he can (his right) and pass back on his left foot.
I agree he needs sticking back out on the wing.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:04 pm
by BabylonClaret
dougcollins wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:01 pm
McNeill's odd roving position seems to always find him in a position where he's facing inwards and has to turn the only way he can (his right) and pass back on his left foot.
I agree he needs sticking back out on the wing.
This. No idea what he is playing at. Surely that's not under instruction?
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:05 pm
by Bordeauxclaret
Radio five said near the end it was a good game which doesn’t match what a few people I know who watched it said.
Our lack of goals since the original lockdown is a massive concern.
A lot of games and not many goals.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:07 pm
by Bosscat
BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:00 pm
Time for a full reset
Buy out - new owners - new manager - new players
New Fans too perhaps
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:09 pm
by bfcmik
I think it is a lack of confidence that prevents us looking threatening in any way going forwards. Both midfielders and attackers seem scared of moving with the ball. Everything is about moving the ball on as quickly as possible, preferably to someone open but to someone tightly marked if they are the only option.Several times we just knocked the ball around at the back then out to a midfielder who knocked it straight back to the defence who either knocked it around between themselves or went for the long high ball to the Brighton centre backs.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:11 pm
by bfcmik
BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:00 pm
Time for a full reset
Buy out - new owners - new manager - new players
Give your head a wobble. We ain't going to get rid of SD - his contract is too big to pay up, even new investors aren't going to waste their money firing the guy who got us to 10th place last season and into Europe 2 years ago.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:14 pm
by Giftonsnoidea
We seem to always have a spell of hideous football per season before we get into a groove with some good stuff. The lads looked like they were playing rugby today, no shots on goal and absolutely woeful midfield and up front, Vydra and j rod to start next game, Vydra in no.10 role! Jay rod up top, mcneil back to actually attacking please wide left!
We need a creative midfielder badly
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:28 pm
by BurnleyFC
One of (or preferably both) Jay and Vydra have to start the next game.
We’re so one dimensional with Wood and Barnes up top and both are terribly out of form.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:36 pm
by 3putt
tiger76 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:32 pm
He can't have done much tonight they lost at home to Bristol City, and let's be honest Cardiff are hardly tearing up the Championship are they, if we could have got him on a loan deal then maybe he'd have been worth a punt, but I have no idea if Liverpool were ever open to that option.
I agree with many other posters our major issue is in cm we were swamped in that area tonight, and this is why Brighton dominated the game, luckily for us they couldn't turn that dominance into goals, but other teams will if we are so lightweight in that area of the pitch.
We could do with a Barton type of player, he was great at keeping the ball moving in a positive way and good at doing the simple things never givingthe ball away cheaply, if we could have him in this current side at his best we would be so much better imo
Re: A different angle
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:54 pm
by SalisburyClaret
A week for McNeil, Westwood and Taylor spent on practicing how to cross the ball. Pope on kicking practice and Wood and Barnes on ball control and we’ll be ok
Re: A different angle
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:49 am
by BOYSIE31
bfcmik wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:11 pm
Give your head a wobble. We ain't going to get rid of SD - his contract is too big to pay up, even new investors aren't going to waste their money firing the guy who got us to 10th place last season and into Europe 2 years ago.
So you happy with the entertainment on offer ??
As these performances would make us struggle in the league below
Re: A different angle
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:54 am
by BenWickes
Putting a different spin on things in this bizarre season where Villa put 7 past the Champions and Southampton are top of the table.
Without our captain for the first six games and a plethora of injuries to contend with.
We lost to Southampton, just. They sit on top of the table this morning.
Gave Leicester a game away. They're going to be a top 6-8 team come May. We gave a good account of ourselves with a weakened team.
Poor performance at Newcastle followed by a decent point at WBA.
We undeservedly lost 0-1 at home to Spurs. Who'd hit 5 at Southampton (I refer you again to their position in the table) and 6 at Old Trafford before coming to t'Turf.
We're quite often humped at home against Chelsea even when we play well and a point at Brighton is normally considered reasonable.
I think we'll be ok overall and yesterday was a starting point. Mee back is massive for us and with that will come confidence.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:02 am
by Targetman
BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:49 am
So you happy with the entertainment on offer ??
As these performances would make us struggle in the league below
Norwich, Watford and Bournemouth had similar performances last season but none of those teams are struggling in the league below.
Think it was just a couple of seasons ago that Crystal Palace had an even worse start than us, don't think they even scored a goal in their first 7 or 8 games.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:09 am
by NewClaret
tiger76 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:32 pm
He can't have done much tonight they lost at home to Bristol City, and let's be honest Cardiff are hardly tearing up the Championship are they, if we could have got him on a loan deal then maybe he'd have been worth a punt, but I have no idea if Liverpool were ever open to that option.
I agree with many other posters our major issue is in cm we were swamped in that area tonight, and this is why Brighton dominated the game, luckily for us they couldn't turn that dominance into goals, but other teams will if we are so lightweight in that area of the pitch.
No, can’t argue with that & I've only watched a couple of highlights clips. What impressed me most was the penalty he won (played for) by driving in to the box. How often do we see any of our players drive in to the box? We just need some pace and drive.
Think their system was the reason they dominated the game. Three at the back easily controlled our two up front, then their wing backs pushed Taylor back & we had three versus two in central midfield. We really need an alternative to 4-4-2 against those systems but to be fair Dyche hasn’t been given the players needed to have options.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:09 am
by Jakubclaret
Rileybobs wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:48 pm
Stephens has made a poor start to his Burnley career, but lets be fair, he's joined the side during a really poor spell. Too early to write him off just yet.
He’s 31 & after palace set to face some really good midfielders coupled with that & the fact he’s getting older diminishing as a player you get a odd rare mediocre performance & that will be that & that’s assuming he stays fit & doesn’t pick any injuries up, you make it out as if he’s got good years ahead of him.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:21 am
by arise_sir_charge
BenWickes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:54 am
Putting a different spin on things in this bizarre season where Villa put 7 past the Champions and Southampton are top of the table.
Without our captain for the first six games and a plethora of injuries to contend with.
We lost to Southampton, just. They sit on top of the table this morning.
Gave Leicester a game away. They're going to be a top 6-8 team come May. We gave a good account of ourselves with a weakened team.
Poor performance at Newcastle followed by a decent point at WBA.
We undeservedly lost 0-1 at home to Spurs. Who'd hit 5 at Southampton (I refer you again to their position in the table) and 6 at Old Trafford before coming to t'Turf.
We're quite often humped at home against Chelsea even when we play well and a point at Brighton is normally considered reasonable.
I think we'll be ok overall and yesterday was a starting point. Mee back is massive for us and with that will come confidence.
I never realised Donald Trump was a Claret.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:22 am
by mybloodisclaret
BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:49 am
So you happy with the entertainment on offer ??
As these performances would make us struggle in the league below
Unbelievable, we have been here before where performances and results have not been going well, but time and again, Dyche has shown that he has the know how, the ability and the drive to turn it around, which I am sure he will. When you are in a dog fight, don't expect Stellar performances, it's about getting out of the situation you are in.
We played superbly against Spurs, who look a really strong side again this year. There is nervousness about the team, everyone can see that a mile off, we just need to start picking points up and wins will come. We have 4 players perfectly capable of scoring goals, and score goals they will.
As for the take over, I hope it is concluded before January and that some significant investment comes the way of the team. Only from what I have read on here I hope it is ALK.
As for changing the manager, give over man.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:23 am
by evensteadiereddie
Again, not happy clapping but at least now we're starting to get a bit of perspective. a horrendous spate of injuries to key players and, for various reasons, a lack of strengthening bringing, unsurprisingly as it's turned out, four defeats to four very good sides. Two draws which we'd, at least, have hoped for and a wretched defeat at Newcastle.
Plenty of other teams will lose to those good sides.
It's bad but we'll go again after the break.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:23 am
by Winstonswhite
BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:00 pm
Time for a full reset
Buy out - new owners - new manager - new players
Are you aware you sound exactly like Blackburn fans 10 years ago? That ended well didnt it
Re: A different angle
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:32 am
by evensteadiereddie
I really don't want this this buyout to happen.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:56 am
by Rileybobs
Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:09 am
He’s 31 & after palace set to face some really good midfielders coupled with that & the fact he’s getting older diminishing as a player you get a odd rare mediocre performance & that will be that & that’s assuming he stays fit & doesn’t pick any injuries up, you make it out as if he’s got good years ahead of him.
No I don’t. I just think that a couple of poor performances doesn’t mean that he won’t go on to make a positive contribution for the remaining duration of his contract.
Re: A different angle
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:04 pm
by Jakubclaret
Rileybobs wrote: ↑Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:56 am
No I don’t. I just think that a couple of poor performances doesn’t mean that he won’t go on to make a positive contribution for the remaining duration of his contract.
No if doesn't but it's more indicative of what the future holds you only have to go on the big board on NSC to see there opinion & there know more, pinning on your hopes on something that's more unlikely to happen than what will happen is foolish at best to be blunt.
