Wood and Barnes

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Iloveyoubrady
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Wood and Barnes

Post by Iloveyoubrady » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:26 pm

Surely that’s enough of that. For me Wood has to stay in the team because he’s our best all round striker and goalscorer and has actually played quite well despite the lack of service recently. Barnes however has to be benched for me. Jay in would be the obvious choice but Vydra caused more problems (1) than Barnes did today in 10 minutes.

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Vino blanco » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:29 pm

Jayrod has to play before Barnes. However, with the lack of creativity we have in midfield I feel sorry for any of our strikers at the moment.
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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Vegas Claret » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:32 pm

Jay and Vydra for me
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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:33 pm

Jay Rod and Wood. Barnes should be 4th choice now.

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by jojomk1 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:56 pm

Was it just me but did our best chance fall to Vydra tonight

A ball (I think from Jay), played over the top but down the line in between full back and centre back perfect for Vydra to run on to (and at the same time he was actually facing the opponents goal)

His pace almost got him in the clear but as he had only been on the field a couple of minutes he misjudged his final run on goal and tried to pass back

Previously, the normal aimless hoofing of long balls up to a static front two who always had their back to the goal and couldn't hold up play - apparently part of the free flowing football that Dyche sees from us in most games
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Bigvince
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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Bigvince » Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:00 pm

You can’t leave Wood on the bench, unless you want to weaken the team!

Burnley1989
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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Burnley1989 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:18 pm

Yeah Wood has to play for me also, 14 goals and didn’t even play every game last year, he’s not a fantastic footballer but he is a very good goal scorer for a team like Burnley, he will find his form and notch 10+ Goals this year IMO

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by tiger76 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:18 pm

Wood and Jay Rod for me, they compliment each other well, and they showed last season that they can combine and score goals together.

That said Vardy would struggle up front for us given the lack of decent service our midfield provide, whoever is selected is living on scraps, and no strikers can magic goals out of thin air they normally rely on decent service.

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:22 pm

If Vardy played our midfield would find it far more easy to create chances and provide him with good service

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Burnleyareback2 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:32 pm

Another thread due to turn in to the story about the Messiah Vydra

For me, it’s Barnes and Jay, Barnes for the dirty work and Jay knows where the net is.

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Vintage Claret » Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:36 pm

Burnleyareback2 wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:32 pm
Another thread due to turn in to the story about the Messiah Vydra

For me, it’s Barnes and Jay, Barnes for the dirty work and Jay knows where the net is.
How do you know Vydra is the Messiah, he could be just a very naughty boy?
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Burnley1989
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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Burnley1989 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:42 pm

Burnleyareback2 wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:32 pm
Another thread due to turn in to the story about the Messiah Vydra

For me, it’s Barnes and Jay, Barnes for the dirty work and Jay knows where the net is.
Never in a million years going to happen whilst Dyche is manager, Wood is our best goal scorer

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Rileybobs » Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:45 pm

Burnleyareback2 wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:32 pm
Another thread due to turn in to the story about the Messiah Vydra

For me, it’s Barnes and Jay, Barnes for the dirty work and Jay knows where the net is.
Vydra certainly isn’t the messiah, and he’s by no means our best striker, but as things stand there’s a very strong case to be made that he should be given a game.
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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by California Colner » Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:22 am

Woods & Barnes are are way to slow for the prem
I don’t think I could name anybody in the prem that are slower
They are much more suited for the lower leagues where it’s more physical and slower pace
It’s got to the stage that it’s laughable watching them play, Barnes looking for a foul every time he gets beat going up for a header and Woods getting out paced running for a pass
Something has to change or we will be playing in the championship next year

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by snapcrackleandpop » Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:54 am

California Colner wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:22 am
Woods & Barnes are are way to slow for the prem
I don’t think I could name anybody in the prem that are slower
They are much more suited for the lower leagues where it’s more physical and slower pace
It’s got to the stage that it’s laughable watching them play, Barnes looking for a foul every time he gets beat going up for a header and Woods getting out paced running for a pass
Something has to change or we will be playing in the championship next year
This

Murger
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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Murger » Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:59 am

We haven't scored a goal for 389 minutes. So why persist in a strike partnership that isn't doing its job? Wood and Jay for me.

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Fez » Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:03 am

4-5-1 could be the answer to try and make us more creative but I've no idea what midfielder to bring in for barnes.

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Inchy » Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:05 am

It took about 10 posts for every possible strike partnership to be suggested, confirming we are all clueless

huw.Y.WattfromWare
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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:39 am

Barnes/Wood has rarely worked. We were poor up until New Year, when Ash was injured. It was Jay coming in that saved our season.

Top Claret
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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Top Claret » Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:42 am

I don't think any front pairing would have made any difference, the problem is midfield.

Westwood was dreadful last night and needs benching we are desperate for a fit Cork.
McNeil needs to start linking up with Taylor and getting into positions to service Wood with some crosses

Confident we will turn draws into wins against the bottom half sides, although we struggle against the top 6

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by burnleymik » Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:49 am

Top Claret wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:42 am

McNeil needs to start linking up with Taylor and getting into positions to service Wood with some crosses

This was the key to a lot of our chances last season. I am not sure if teams or onto it, but Mcneil seems have just stopped driving down that side now and seems to be more content just passing the ball backwards. I miss those runs at defence and the crosses from impossible angles! Hope it's just a confidence thing.

When Barnes and Wood are both on form, they make a decent partnership, the problem is when they are not on form, Dyche persists and when they both play our tactics always seem the same lump it up for either Wood to win or Barnes to get a freekick (except he doesn't anymore as the Refs are onto him). I think this naturally takes our midfield out of the game.

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Top Claret » Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:56 am

To be fair we set up last night not to conceed and it worked, our midfield was far to deep to be effective

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Woodleyclaret » Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:01 am

Even our goal provider Ash Westwood looked off his game but our midfield has definitely improved with Josh Brownhill in it
We just need to cut out the back passing and hoof ball and we will be assured of a mid table finish

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by bobinho » Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:34 am

Fez wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:03 am
4-5-1 could be the answer to try and make us more creative but I've no idea what midfielder to bring in for barnes.
When we have played wood in his own up top, we have looked even less dangerous than we did last night, so with respect, I don’t think we should be going anywhere near 4-5-1 with the current squad.

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by BleedingClaret » Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:57 am

Rileybobs wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:45 pm
Vydra certainly isn’t the messiah, and he’s by no means our best striker, but as things stand there’s a very strong case to be made that he should be given a game.
It’s more about the type of striker that he is.
His mobility causes a threat in behind, pushing their defence back 10 yards immediately more as the game goes on and occupying them defensively negating, somewhat, the threat of the wing backs pushing up.
Stretching their midfield, which often pulls the strikers back to the half way line.
For us it creates space between their defence and midfield our 2nd striker to receive the ball and allows the midfield to push up and our defence to get on the half way line and the full backs to push up, the wide midfielders to join attacks.
Flips the game, just a Vardy does for Leicester. Obviously Vydra isn’t Vardy but he possesses certain qualities that cause the opposition to go back 30 yards
Last edited by BleedingClaret on Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by ashtonlongsider » Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:57 am

JayRod linked up well with Wood whilst Barnes was out injured and for me proved it's our best combination up front, given the system we play. The combo makes us less predictable, but, and it's a big but, we need, and have needed a creative midfield player for at least the last 3 windows. Until this is resolved, i'm afraid we're not going to score enough goals on a regular basis to win matches.

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by jrgbfc » Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:08 am

Maybe having a bit of movement up top would help our midfielders out a bit?

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Funkydrummer » Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:20 am

jrgbfc wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:08 am
Maybe having a bit of movement up top would help our midfielders out a bit?
Spot on - the movement is almost non-existent giving the midfield no options.

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Funkydrummer » Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:22 am

Burnley1989 wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:18 pm
Yeah Wood has to play for me also, 14 goals and didn’t even play every game last year, he’s not a fantastic footballer ......
He is not a footballer, full stop.

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by BleedingClaret » Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:49 am

Funkydrummer wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:22 am
He is not a footballer, full stop.
He’s not a classy footballer by any means, but he’s a goal scorer, in a low quality Premier League team, so that qualifies him as a footballer.

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by evensteadiereddie » Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:53 am

Wood is a decent striker as his record in a mediocre to fair side shows.
Jayrod must have a run, he is capable of scoring game-changing goals. Some of the goals he got last year were well beyond Barnes' abillity.
Last edited by evensteadiereddie on Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Quickenthetempo » Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:54 am

Time to start Jimmy Dunne up top.

He's our joint top scorer in November despite only playing a couple of matches.

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by BleedingClaret » Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:56 am

I said the moment that Barnes came back that Dyche would then play Wood & Barnes til the end of his time at Burnley

He’ll bring Jay on too late to be match fit enough to make a difference in 20 mins.

He either won’t put Vydra on at all or in the 83rd minute and again he won’t be sharp enough, in 10 9 and a half minute sub appearances including added time he’ll have 1 90 minute game plus added time in his legs and mind

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Bigvince » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:00 am

Funkydrummer wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:22 am
He is not a footballer, full stop.
367 appearances and 122 goals at club level
57 appearances and 24 goals at international level
Would suggest otherswise ;)
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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by BleedingClaret » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:14 am

Bigvince wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:00 am
367 appearances and 122 goals at club level
57 appearances and 24 goals at international level
Would suggest otherswise ;)
Goal scorer at Premier League and international level for a relatively weak team at both these levels is probably the hardest discipline and most sought after footballers out there.
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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Darthlaw » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:33 am

Wood is not up for debate for me (despite that miss vs WBA) and remains our best finisher.

The part I don’t understand is Barnes. He was poor prior to the announcement of his injury last year and somehow has walked straight back into the team, despite the form of Jay and Vyds since the PL restarted.

Dyche has always been consistent in players must play their way into the team (or someone must be injured) but Barnes has somehow got a pass on this. Worse still, he’s picked up where he left off in terms of poor form. I’m not suggesting he be thrown on the scrap heap by any means but he’s just not justIfying his starting place.

Jay and Wood for me.
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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by BleedingClaret » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:34 am

Thing is with Wood & Barnes
When the Dyche system is functioning the balls into them are from just inside our half or theirs played by a player in some space worked by playing the ball along the back 4 and so some time to play a targeted weighted ball in that they receive around the edges of the box with other players in and around them and often the ball is played out to the wide players to get some possession and pressure, and crosses in.
Or the defender plays the ball to the wide man or full backs who wing crosses in for Wood & Barnes.
Whereas
When the system isn’t working they get a ball whacked up in the air by a defender under pressure from his own half or from the keeper that comes down anywhere around the 40 yard line.
Often they don’t get there, if they do they can’t control it or if they do control it or head on nobody is in and around them to profit or receive.
The wide men with the rest of the midfield can’t get up to support and therefore don’t get crosses in and we get no controlled possession at all.
The full back don’t get over half way
Eventually the midfield sit back our defence sit on the edge of our box, our midfield just in front our 2 physical but immobile box feeders sit isolated on the half way line with the occasional howitzer propelled shell of a ball flying in around but usually beyond them.
8 of the opposition attack our sat back 8
Their 2 centre halves stand chatting enjoying their easy last half hour marking 2 players who won’t be fast enough to feed on scraps or offer a goal threat whilst attacking from the half way line
Jay Rod gets 20 mins of the projectile ball chasing on the half way line
Vydra gets 10 mins defence gets a little shock as he offers threat Jay tries to receive and link Brownhill senses it and bombs up McNeil actually plays a forward pass gets forward
Whistle blows
Next game Barnes Wood 70 plus mins
And so on and so on
We give credit to our defence if we hold out
Lambast our midfield
Some Point out the deficiencies of Wood Barnes
Others counter that Jay Rod and Vydra have done nothing in 20 and 10 mins respectively trying to completely change the momentum of a game with 8 battered team mate game after game after game as they themselves get less match fit and sharp and less confident
Last edited by BleedingClaret on Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:41 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Funkydrummer » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:36 am

The thing is, I said he wasn't a footballer.

I'm not denying he's a goal scorer.

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by warksclaret » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:36 am

Jay simply has to play-with Wood. Yesterday was a typical Burnley grind out a draw result. Last year we were sneaking a 1-0 win from games like this. Jay will take a half chance-like the one at the end Dwight skewed.Also Barnes has been subbed for the past 3 games simply because he was not in the game

More importantly we need Dwight on the left touchline stretching them and hitting early low balls into the 6 yard box. At the moment he is trying to play like De Stepheno, with the majority of his balls in the middle of the park going back 40 yards or sidewards. He is our secret weapon, so we must use him to greater effect. For me he should have come off yesterday for JBG

Something else we need to improve on are our free kicks, which we were deadly at last year
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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:40 am

Barnes is getting a lot of the flack, but I think he’s probably played better than Wood in the last couple of games.

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by BleedingClaret » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:46 am

Rileybobs wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:40 am
Barnes is getting a lot of the flack, but I think he’s probably played better than Wood in the last couple of games.
Wood doesn’t really play well, he either scores or doesn’t.
He’s more potent than Barnes.
Jay Rod is as potent as Barnes but offers much more besides

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by BleedingClaret » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:46 am

Funkydrummer wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:36 am
The thing is, I said he wasn't a footballer.

I'm not denying he's a goal scorer.
That is the most sought after trait of a footballer

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by BleedingClaret » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:50 am

warksclaret wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:36 am
Jay simply has to play-with Wood. Yesterday was a typical Burnley grind out a draw result. Last year we were sneaking a 1-0 win from games like this. Jay will take a half chance-like the one at the end Dwight skewed.Also Barnes has been subbed for the past 3 games simply because he was not in the game

More importantly we need Dwight on the left touchline stretching them and hitting early low balls into the 6 yard box. At the moment he is trying to play like De Stepheno, with the majority of his balls in the middle of the park going back 40 yards or sidewards. He is our secret weapon, so we must use him to greater effect. For me he should have come off yesterday for JBG

Something else we need to improve on are our free kicks, which we were deadly at last year
Barnes is done before the hour.
I think the half time is not a rest but a seize up time for a player that’s just back after being out for so long.
The games noticeably change 15 20 mins into the 2nd half as they sense our fragility and push on to us
Dyche wastes 20 25 mins to bring enough subs on to change our mobility mindset and sharpness, usually it’s too late

Then does the same next game

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Iloveyoubrady » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:55 am

Yes wood not up for debate for me. I don’t think he’s given credit for his hold up play. When our aimless hoffballs do go to wood, he is very good at bringing it down on his chest and at least giving us a chance to keep the ball. I think over the last couple of years he has improved his hold up play and his goal scoring ability cannot be questioned. Barnes, however, is absolutely shocking and leads our play to be even worse and doesn’t Even offer much at set pieces... jay rod in please

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Hedontplayforyou » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:58 am

Start with Wood and Jay for me, Jay is technically much better than Barnes and offers a little bit more pace not a great deal mind. His link up play is much better with the midfield too, although Vydra has a case too as others have stated already he pushes the opposition back with the extra bit of pace he has. He may not be the best player in the squad but what he offers is something that gets the entire team up the field ! We can’t score from our own half . Come on Burnley UTC

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Quickenthetempo » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:59 am

Iloveyoubrady wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:55 am
Yes wood not up for debate for me. I don’t think he’s given credit for his hold up play. When our aimless hoffballs do go to wood, he is very good at bringing it down on his chest and at least giving us a chance to keep the ball. I think over the last couple of years he has improved his hold up play and his goal scoring ability cannot be questioned. Barnes, however, is absolutely shocking and leads our play to be even worse and doesn’t Even offer much at set pieces... jay rod in please
I must have missed Wood holding the ball up last night and bringing others into play.
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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Bigvince » Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:08 pm

Funkydrummer wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:36 am
The thing is, I said he wasn't a footballer.

I'm not denying he's a goal scorer.
If that’s the case, I wouldn’t mind a few more non-footballers

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Funkydrummer » Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:16 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:59 am
I must have missed Wood holding the ball up last night and bringing others into play.
Did you go to the loo by any chance G ? :D :D

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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:33 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:59 am
I must have missed Wood holding the ball up last night and bringing others into play.
Some truth in that, but there was simply no one to bring into play. Midfield was cut adrift by the long ball, and Barnes and Wood as a passing / interchanging combination doesn't seem to work.
That's why a more mobile and intuitive player like Rodriguez or Vydra working alongside Wood works better

Quickenthetempo
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Re: Wood and Barnes

Post by Quickenthetempo » Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:35 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:33 pm
Some truth in that, but there was simply no one to bring into play. Midfield was cut adrift by the long ball, and Barnes and Wood as a passing / interchanging combination doesn't seem to work.
That's why a more mobile and intuitive player like Rodriguez or Vydra working alongside Wood works better
Yeah, you have to earn the trust from the midfielders to make a run out of position.

That was the big difference when Jay Rod and Vydra were playing. The midfielders trusted they would hold up and pass it to them. It was worth the gamble of them getting caught out of their position.

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