What's happened to McNeil?

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
Post Reply
jurek
Posts: 1475
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:38 pm
Been Liked: 262 times
Has Liked: 3 times

What's happened to McNeil?

Post by jurek » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:36 pm

I might be wrong and have only watched a few matches and highlights this season
but it does seem as if McNeil is struggling to get back to the form he was showing
last season.
I'm not sure why but it doesn't seem as if he is not making many forward runs
or getting as many crosses in as last season. No goals so far this season too.

The 4-4-2 system Dyche like to play does rely on the two wingers playing dual roles
- defending when required but also creating chances and that doesn't seem to be happening much this season.

So what do others reckon?

Is it time to give him a rest?
If he was rested then have we got anyone who can replace him?
Or possibly change the system?

Spike
Posts: 1905
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:07 pm
Been Liked: 406 times
Has Liked: 835 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Spike » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:45 pm

Beating Citeh will put the spring back in his step

Steddyman
Posts: 1642
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:45 pm
Been Liked: 358 times
Has Liked: 291 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Steddyman » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:49 pm

Probably annoyed he didn't get his move away in the summer transfer window.

joey13
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:39 pm
Been Liked: 1221 times
Has Liked: 962 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by joey13 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:02 pm

Give him a rest , he’s 21 FFS
These 3 users liked this post: Colburn_Claret ZizkovClaret RalphCoatesComb

Devils_Advocate
Posts: 7722
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
Been Liked: 3030 times
Has Liked: 565 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:06 pm

I think he got a girlfriend in the close season which looks to be effecting his form

huw.Y.WattfromWare
Posts: 2049
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 7:04 pm
Been Liked: 570 times
Has Liked: 514 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:06 pm

He is coming into the middle far too often and, IMO, has lost his dribbling confidence because of this. I don’t want Charlie going outside him. I wantDwight beating a man and putting them wonderful curling crosses in. BTW this has to be under instructions. If it wasn’t he would be told to get chalk on heels, by SD.

cricketfieldclarets
Posts: 20260
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:59 pm
Been Liked: 8015 times
Has Liked: 10905 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:07 pm

I thought he played well yesterday. I’d like to see him play off the front man or front two. Carrying the ball through the middle in a five.
These 2 users liked this post: Zlatan ashtonlongsider

what_no_pies
Posts: 578
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:13 am
Been Liked: 196 times
Has Liked: 63 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by what_no_pies » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:08 pm

Used to be really direct and instinctively looked to run with the ball, rarely went past his man but could find half a yard and always seemed to manage to dig out some sort of a ball into the box. That's been replaced with check run, look sideways or backwards for a simple pass.

Perhaps the fearlessness of youth is being coached out of him? Maybe it's the opposition concentrating on nullifying his threat. Perhaps the fact the team isn't performing how it can do. A dip in confidence inevitably affects his form. It's likely to be a combination of factors though.
These 2 users liked this post: NewClaret IanMcL

Colburn_Claret
Posts: 4842
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 1841 times
Has Liked: 2812 times
Location: Catterick N.Yorks

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:24 pm

huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:06 pm
He is coming into the middle far too often and, IMO, has lost his dribbling confidence because of this. I don’t want Charlie going outside him. I wantDwight beating a man and putting them wonderful curling crosses in. BTW this has to be under instructions. If it wasn’t he would be told to get chalk on heels, by SD.
I think the same, how people can say he is a centre midfielder, with his talent for putting a cross in, is nonsense.
He does require people in the box to make the cross to, and at times this season we have been very negative going forward. That has to affect Dwights game.

cricketfieldclarets
Posts: 20260
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:59 pm
Been Liked: 8015 times
Has Liked: 10905 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:25 pm

I don’t think he is a traditional central midfielder. But what I do think is he can offer us what De Bruyne offers city.

That’s not me saying he’s anywhere near his level. But more he’s a similar style of player.

Vegas Claret
Posts: 17897
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
Been Liked: 5780 times
Has Liked: 2841 times
Location: clue is in the title

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:43 pm

there's a reason most other teams don't play 21 year olds every game - look how phenomenal Phil Foden is and yet he has been in and out of the City side - very difficult to be consistent at a young age. Wolves spent 35 million on some random Portuguese kid, so far he's scored against Doncaster in a mickey mouse cup competition and has hardly had a kick in the PL.

What Dwight has done has been nothing short of phenomenal and extremely unusual
These 3 users liked this post: evensteadiereddie boatshed bill cricketfieldclarets

Wile E Coyote
Posts: 7192
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:22 pm
Been Liked: 2396 times
Has Liked: 1421 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Wile E Coyote » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:47 pm

its a cyclical thing, in a few weeks he will be back to his best. we all have to endure dips in football or otherwise.

TsarBomba
Posts: 543
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:51 pm
Been Liked: 430 times
Has Liked: 111 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by TsarBomba » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:50 pm

It’s obvious to everyone that McNeil is our main threat going forward, unless we go long. He’s getting heavily targeted and nullified as a result. It’s to be expected, and he’ll adapt his game to overcome this in due course.

He’s just turned 21, and there’s an expectation that he will carry a PL team, week in, week out.

It ain’t gonna happen. Just let him develop.
This user liked this post: Zlatan

tim_noone
Posts: 15519
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:12 pm
Been Liked: 4005 times
Has Liked: 13824 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by tim_noone » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:54 pm

joey13 wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:02 pm
Give him a rest , he’s 21 FFS
Give it a rest Joey...hes only 21 FFS! :D

tim_noone
Posts: 15519
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:12 pm
Been Liked: 4005 times
Has Liked: 13824 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by tim_noone » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:59 pm

TsarBomba wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:50 pm
It’s obvious to everyone that McNeil is our main threat going forward, unless we go long. He’s getting heavily targeted and nullified as a result. It’s to be expected, and he’ll adapt his game to overcome this in due course.

He’s just turned 21, and there’s an expectation that he will carry a PL team, week in, week out.

It ain’t gonna happen. Just let him develop.
Vydra would relish the chance to push forward...

Dyched
Posts: 5346
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:34 am
Been Liked: 1717 times
Has Liked: 432 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Dyched » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:43 am

He needs proper game management. Unfortunately Brady can’t shake off his injury problems so Dwight must play far more football than he should be.

He’s probably played double the amount of minutes over the past 18 months than he probably should have. Nowt we can really do about it. He’s also asked to play a very demanding role.

dermotdermot
Posts: 2385
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:50 pm
Been Liked: 460 times
Has Liked: 188 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by dermotdermot » Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:16 am

The team is almost u up to strength. A couple of more games and he will be whipping in goals and crossings. Take my word for it. He Is a major asset.
This user liked this post: evensteadiereddie

superdimitri
Posts: 2286
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:04 pm
Been Liked: 461 times
Has Liked: 307 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by superdimitri » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:10 am

We've always been a structural team that relies on one or two creative outlets. Much of this season that's solely been McNeil.

Every game opposition are instructed to close him down, to watch what his next move is, managers may even change team selection based on him playing.

Against palace every time he got the ball he had two men closing him down.

So we need more outlets than only him and more players who will create space for him. It helps a lot when Gudmundsson plays because at least it's one thing extra the opposition defence has to think about.
This user liked this post: summitclaret

Burnley1989
Posts: 2880
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:19 am
Been Liked: 900 times
Has Liked: 1020 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Burnley1989 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:03 am

He’s been quiet but he’s still one of our best players and developing, I’m not concerned at all it’s just that he’s set such high standards we all know there’s more in the tank. Patience needed by all I think, most posters above make great points.

bfcjg
Posts: 6895
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:17 pm
Been Liked: 2641 times
Has Liked: 2693 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by bfcjg » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:13 am

Coaches from other teams study videos, he is very predictable and consequently easy to nullify.

claretonthecoast1882
Posts: 3739
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Been Liked: 1709 times
Has Liked: 53 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:57 am

Eze with 1 goal and 1 assist this season - given brilliant reviews on here by some

McNeil with 1 assist this season - what has happened to him

Fez
Posts: 218
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:06 am
Been Liked: 43 times
Has Liked: 74 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Fez » Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:05 am

He's been Dyched

Jakubs Tash
Posts: 1477
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 pm
Been Liked: 378 times
Has Liked: 139 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Jakubs Tash » Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:28 am

He’s clearly been asked to drift inside and look for the ball more often to HELP THE TEAM. If he stayed rigidly on the wing and waited for the ball we would be even more predictable, our midfielders would be outnumbered and we would struggle getting the ball to him.

Got to say, I agree with cricketfield, would love us to bring in a couple of quick, powerful wide players and get Dwight in a no 10 role.

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 1165
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 263 times
Has Liked: 21 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:35 am

It is strategic. The athletic did an article on his positioning this season. He has been asked when attacking to drift in field to assist Westwood and Brownhill, thus allowing Taylor the freedom of the left wing.

Yes this hinders Dwights attacking prowess, however I must highlight that the two best defence splitting passes in the game were done by McNeil in a central position. He drifted in midfield an played a great pass to the bombing on Taylor and the next one was the through ball that gudmundsson hit the post with.

This is the next stage in Dwights development. He is moving more central where I think he will eventually end up

Transpennine
Posts: 301
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:29 am
Been Liked: 79 times
Has Liked: 17 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Transpennine » Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:56 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:35 am

Yes this hinders Dwights attacking prowess, however I must highlight that the two best defence splitting passes in the game were done by McNeil in a central position. He drifted in midfield an played a great pass to the bombing on Taylor and the next one was the through ball that gudmundsson hit the post with.
His best defence splitting pass was the backpass

Papabendi
Posts: 691
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:29 pm
Been Liked: 168 times
Has Liked: 5 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Papabendi » Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:57 am

the problem is we then don't have enough quality of delivery from wide areas, and McNeil isn't really in the game at that point.

The answer really is better players with more attacking threats overall.
These 2 users liked this post: NewClaret onewillieirvine

NewClaret
Posts: 3164
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
Been Liked: 631 times
Has Liked: 722 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by NewClaret » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:00 am

what_no_pies wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:08 pm
Used to be really direct and instinctively looked to run with the ball, rarely went past his man but could find half a yard and always seemed to manage to dig out some sort of a ball into the box. That's been replaced with check run, look sideways or backwards for a simple pass.

Perhaps the fearlessness of youth is being coached out of him? Maybe it's the opposition concentrating on nullifying his threat. Perhaps the fact the team isn't performing how it can do. A dip in confidence inevitably affects his form. It's likely to be a combination of factors though.
Some really interesting theories on here that I hadn’t considered, but agree with the above post that it is likely a combination of factors.

Also suspect it may be on instructions of Dyche since I felt in games last season he was being easily nullified out wide & opponents were targeting and closing down our only attacking threat.

Also like criketfieldclarets point that we’re asking him to play in to a De Bruyne role. Maybe that’s his preference and we are accommodating it, or maybe Dyche just feels it’s much harder for opposition to pick him up in a free-er role.

Personally I miss seeing him out wide whipping crosses in, and, if the intention was that he would add some variety to his play, I’d like to see it weighted a bit more in favour of that in the coming games.

Most of all I’d like to see us linked with a rapid right winger so we rely on Dwight less for all our attacking impetus from January onwards.

Jakubs Tash
Posts: 1477
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 pm
Been Liked: 378 times
Has Liked: 139 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Jakubs Tash » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:01 am

As mentioned above, McNeil has a similar style to De Bruyne (no comparing ability as KDB is one of the best in world football). McNeil should really play as a no 10 or left hand side of a middle 3. De Bruyne can beat a man and his delivery is incredible....but he doesn't play as a winger.

Steve-Harpers-perm
Posts: 3908
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:52 am
Been Liked: 1270 times
Has Liked: 561 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:12 am

A right winger with some pace and skill is a priority in January. This will help take the pressure off McNeil.

Hedontplayforyou
Posts: 945
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:01 am
Been Liked: 247 times
Has Liked: 27 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Hedontplayforyou » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:20 am

Being the only creative player in a team and being doubled up on, whilst being asked to track back and help out is rather difficult.
This user liked this post: Dark Cloud

Quickenthetempo
Posts: 11223
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:35 am
Been Liked: 2512 times
Has Liked: 1370 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:28 am

They did a piece on him in the Athletic a few weeks ago that Dwight is seeing far more of the ball than when he first came in the side but a lot further back on the pitch than he used to.
Everyone knew his attacking instincts would get coached out of him. For his own career he needs an attacking manager.

rufus lumley
Posts: 518
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:22 pm
Been Liked: 119 times
Has Liked: 7 times
Location: standing like a clock on the shelf

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by rufus lumley » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:29 am

Declan Rice is the same age had a few dips in form and now a makes evey England squad .Dwight will be back to peak form soon hopefully Saturday.

Steve-Harpers-perm
Posts: 3908
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:52 am
Been Liked: 1270 times
Has Liked: 561 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:35 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:28 am
They did a piece on him in the Athletic a few weeks ago that Dwight is seeing far more of the ball than when he first came in the side but a lot further back on the pitch than he used to.
Everyone knew his attacking instincts would get coached out of him. For his own career he needs an attacking manager.
This is absolute rubbish.

summitclaret
Posts: 2945
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:39 pm
Been Liked: 557 times
Has Liked: 929 times
Location: burnley

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by summitclaret » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:43 am

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:12 am
A right winger with some pace and skill is a priority in January. This will help take the pressure off McNeil.
It has been for ages. Criminal not to have replaced Lennon. Teams know we have to go via Dwight and Charlie and set up accordingly. Generally the rhs is a weakness attacking wise. A fully fit JBG would help, but a right winger and a new rb remain vital.

Erasmus
Posts: 685
Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 1:46 pm
Been Liked: 543 times
Has Liked: 41 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Erasmus » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:44 am

From the matches I've seen, it seems clear he's being asked to come inside a lot to support the central midfielders. One problem from playing 4-4-2 is that the central two in midfield will usually be outnumbered, so I can see why this is being done. It does, however, reduce the threat Dwight poses with his crosses from wide left. It's a new system and a new way of playing for Dwight, which needs time to be developed for both the midfield setup and for the player. I really don't think it's about his personal loss of any form.

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 1165
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 263 times
Has Liked: 21 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:44 am

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:35 am
This is absolute rubbish.
I wouldn’t say it is complete rubbish. He is being coached to play more centrally. however I wouldn’t say the attacking intent is being coached out of him. It is for Dwight to develop in his new role.

Quickenthetempo
Posts: 11223
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:35 am
Been Liked: 2512 times
Has Liked: 1370 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:50 am

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:35 am
This is absolute rubbish.
In your opinion in might be.

The article produced evidence. You might want to offer evidence to counter it?
Or are you suggesting he wouldn't be a better player with an attacking manager?

cblantfanclub
Posts: 302
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:11 pm
Been Liked: 83 times
Has Liked: 230 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by cblantfanclub » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:06 am

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:06 pm

"I think he got a girlfriend in the close season which looks to be effecting his form"

Alex Ferguson always thought that was a problem with some of the younger players. He said there's some who are great till they get a girlfriend then go off and it takes a while before they return to and some don't. Not that I'm suggesting this is the case with McNeil.

Steve-Harpers-perm
Posts: 3908
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:52 am
Been Liked: 1270 times
Has Liked: 561 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:08 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:50 am
In your opinion in might be.

The article produced evidence. You might want to offer evidence to counter it?
Or are you suggesting he wouldn't be a better player with an attacking manager?
He’s already shown us what a good attacking player he’s been under Dyche as the stats show. No surprise that the opposition are now well aware they need to nullify his threat coupled with what looks like a dip in form.

IanMcL
Posts: 19529
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:27 pm
Been Liked: 3995 times
Has Liked: 4619 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by IanMcL » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:24 am

He obviously has a licence to roam, to bolster Central areas.
The loss is direct runs and overlaps with Taylor, down the left. Therefore fewer crosses for goals.

Agree also about receive, turn back, pass to defender, is his current game play.

Quickenthetempo
Posts: 11223
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:35 am
Been Liked: 2512 times
Has Liked: 1370 times

Re: What's happened to McNeil?

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:25 am

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:08 am
He’s already shown us what a good attacking player he’s been under Dyche as the stats show. No surprise that the opposition are now well aware they need to nullify his threat coupled with what looks like a dip in form.
This of course is true and he has been double marked ever since Hendrick played on the right. But Dyche prefers his wide men doing defensive duties more than most.

Did you not see the 4 throw ins malarkey against Palace where nobody would leave their shape to help us retain the ball? High up on the left wing 2nd half. Dwight needs players to come near him and take defenders away from him.

Post Reply