Does anyone actually enjoy watching us play?

[Leyland Claret]

I’m finding myself becoming more irate at the TV watching us play. We are the most predictable side in the division bar none. There is a marked difference though recently than the way we used to play. We were a very high pressure team giving the opposition very little time on the ball but that has waned in the last 18-24 months. Take for example yesterday at City. Granted they are a fabulous passing team but the time and space we granted them up to being on the edge of our penalty area was embarrassing. If you look at it the other way around when we did have possession of the ball there were at least 2-3 City players trying to win the ball back. That’s nothing to do with fabulous skill, that’s all about work ethic and desire which it seems we have lost the ability to do. Wether it’s a tactic SD is playing is another matter but we were known as a terrier type team but we are currently a soft touch and pushover.
Personally I don’t enjoy the way City play and prefer ‘muck and nettles’ type approach which we showed early on in the Premier League years and were relatively successful at but lately we have lost that ‘je ne sais quoi’

[Inchy]

I drive over from Leeds to watch Burnley. I make the effort to go over. Others don’t and like to have an opinion which has an air of grandiosity, but at least I make the effort.


I enjoy meeting my mates, having a pint, and watching dreadful football. Remove the first two and I probably would stay this side of the M62 as well

[Whitgord]

Once we are back on the turf, we can encourage or berate our players as much as we want. That is what we are missing at the moment, it’s just so frustrating not being able to pretend we are actually managing to be heard by the players. Also the “12th man” is real, we can manage to make players go the extra yard if we collectively get on their case. Our forced separation from the physical game is what’s killing it. In my opinion anyway.

[tarkys_ears]

Always enjoy watching us play.

That's why I do it...

[bobinho]

Take Liverpool away last season.... absolutely immense. Lacking in every single department except effort. I loved it, absolutely loved it. We should’ve been pasted, but we weren’t.

It’s the siege mentality that I love. Sometimes it isn’t easy on the eye, but when we put that wall up and collectively shout “none shall pass” it gets the hackles up for me.

So yeah, I enjoy watching us still.

[Elizabeth]

I think it depends how you are watching us play. On the ground you enjoy the cut and thrust which you don’t get watching on TV.
On the ground you can interact with the crowd and there is always light humour to help pass the time to the final whistle. In your own front room you are ‘ on your own biting your nails’ and it isn’t nice.
We knew when we got promoted to the PL that we would have few games where we would be in enough control to turn it on. That’s how it’s turned out so we can’t grumble.
I think the big difference is that not many of us expected to have survived in the ‘ big league’ so long .

[Red Fox Rocks Socks]

Take Liverpool away last season.... absolutely immense. Lacking in every single department except effort. I loved it, absolutely loved it. We should’ve been pasted, but we weren’t.

It’s the siege mentality that I love. Sometimes it isn’t easy on the eye, but when we put that wall up and collectively shout “none shall pass” it gets the hackles up for me.

So yeah, I enjoy watching us still.

Putting the wall up at the back with a bit of ability further forward describes us at our best. It seems a long while since we’ve seen that

[jurek]

I'm beginning to question how much I enjoy
watching football in general and possibly even more so
watching us especially as of late.

I'm also beginning to question the notion of the umbilical cord
attachment, the 'once a claret always a claret' - support them till you die,
through thick and thin.

It was painful watching us against City even though it was only highlights
which probably made it even worse. No pleasure or enjoyment
to be made out of that.

But I'll probably die a claret.
Maybe just stop watching them when they lose or play badly.
That would be a start.

[California Colner]

I’ll alway watch the games in any league we play in as all Burnley supporters would.
Like most posters have said it’s not pretty and can be hard on the eyes
We are in a league that you can’t stand still, not bringing in new players is a recipe for failure in the Prem. It’s only a mater of time before we will be relegated just like other clubs have been that really can’t afford to be in this league.
Unless we invest in players we will be playing in a different league.

[Stayingup]

Man City fans do.

[Tall Paul]

I think even Stevie Wonder would find us difficult to watch.

He finds anything difficult to watch doesn't he?

[superdimitri]

I enjoy the defensive work we put it but can't help but cringe when we try to attack. 10% of the time we pull off a good cross or knock on but our creation of clear chances tend to be pretty small.

I think most people enjoy the attacking part of the game most and that's why we get criticism but most of the time (not last game) our defence is a joy to watch.

I'd like to see us create more clear chances.

But I'm more critical of the team when we play bad against similar quality teams to us. The fact we have to play the way we do against the top teams is more the fault of the game as a whole and the ridiculous money other teams are able to throw at it.

Against poor opposition we're much better than we used to be but against the top teams the days with Boyd and Arfield defending on the wing were really beneficial to frustrate top teams. The problem you have when you try to transition from an underdog to a favorite in many games is finding the balance between attack and defence and being able to beat teams around us more effectively has meant our defence isn't quite as strong as it was once against the very best.

[Granny WeatherWax]

I look forward to a time where we actually play better football, no matter what league we are in.

[Claretforever]

It’s tough to get emotional about football at the moment. If clubs believe there’ll be a bounce like after the war, which I’ve seen mentioned a few times elsewhere, they’re in for a shock.

I think football continuing behind closed doors has diluted it quite a lot. From the effort put in by the players, fans being able to actually see what’s on offer instead of getting distracted by a crowd, to just seeing the fact it’s a behind closed doors training game. All for the sake of fulfilling TV obligations.

VAR is a killer for me. I don’t like it at all and prefer the spontaneity of emotion rather that the watered down celebrations. And it’s still down to a personal opinion of someone in a room miles away, so is often subjective. I’d rather lose a goal to a close call, that’s how much I dislike it.

Then add in that 5 years into Premier League football and we still cannot lay a glove on Man City (see Leeds), and we have no real pace or creativity from midfield to forwards which is baffling. When you’re winning it papers over the cracks, but this season I have no emotional buy in to it. If we went down I’m not sure it’d even wreck my weekend, which is worrying.

I’m a season ticket holder but don’t think I’ll be back until we’re all back. I accept that could be next season in the Championship.

[Wile E Coyote]

part of being in this division is battling the giant teams and occasionally bettering them. united game for example.
when we first came up after the play off final, the initial excitement soon faded as we began to get successive hammerings. One sequence had us conceding 2, 3, 4, 5 in a row. that said we have had some very good periods at this level, and played exceptionally well. so far this season though we look like a struggling championship team. the football looks desperate and disjointed at best.
I agree about the loyalty thing as mentioned above, but it would take a deranged fanatic to say watching us right now is enjoyable.

[claret2018]

It’s come to something when we’re holding up a draw from last season as a shining example of how good the team is.

We haven’t been good this season, and a lot of last season. Neither have we been good to watch.

Our days of (barely) being able to compete in the PL seem to be long gone, and with an ageing squad that is unable to be upgraded it’s not going to get any better.

Bring on the Championship

[RingoMcCartney]

"Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you got 'til it's gone
They paved paradise, and put up a parking lot"

[williamjblazkowicz]

I've stopped watching in the last couple of years. More to do with a general apathy towards the sport than Burnley. Sick of the money, greed, and cheating in the Premier League. Like coming on here now and again but honestly enjoy the non-football topics more than the Burnley stuff.

[Cirrus_Minor]

When we are on our game I think we are good to watch. We tend then to mix it between playing up to our two strikers and passing through midfield to the wings. There are only a few teams in the world that can expect a result at Man City and we are miles off being that sort of club, that being said, we should at least be good enough to not always make so easy for them.

I can think of many games last season that was good to watch, West Ham and Bournmouth at home come to mind. But we are clearly missing some quality and creativity at the moment and need to stop making errors in defence if we are to keep in the PL.

[Jenny55]

We probably haven’t been good to watch since dare I say it, Coyle left. He hadn’t a clue about setting teams up to defend, however the football was exciting. I will batten down the hatches now.

[dandeclaret]

Fully entrenched in the Stoke / Sunderland / Middlesboro / Blackburn/ West Brom cycle now....

I don't like watching us play defensive football and scraping results..... often leads to a manager change and big overspending to secure players who don't change the results materially, but might do the odd stepover, and the togetherness and team culture gets broken...... often leads to relegation....... often leads to the overspending resulting in further cost cutting...... often leads to signing cheaper players....often leads to poorer results.... sometimes a situation or manager like Dyche, Coyle, Pulis, Warnock, Allardyce (you know, the ones that clubs don't give money to spend) etc come along and get more out of a bunch of players than most other managers do.... if lucky enough to gain promotion again..... enjoy playing the big teams........ then eventually settle back into a world of not enjoying the team play defensive football, scraping results..... leading to a manager change..... ah you get the picture.

[warksclaret]

Only watch because of the love for the club. Recently though it is showing up our frailties. One thing that hit me this weekend about the majority of PL players is the quality, control, knowing where to lay the ball out to a colleague, not just heading it but putting it into a space a colleague is going to enter, playing out cooly from defence rather than hoisting it aimlessly upfield, and the ability to get to the byline line and putting the ball into the 6 yard box. I am rarely seeing any of these qualities from our team who occasionally against teams like Man City and Chelsea just collapse. You are going to say its normal to get beat by Man City 5-0, but up to our game on Saturday they were averaging a goal a game, and not all their games were against top teams

In view of all this its a miracle what the manager and coaches have achieved but it cant go on for ever

[CleggHall]

Painful as it was, Mahrez’s performance was worth the admission money on Saturday, took us apart from the 1st minute and he is often lucky to get a game for City. That’s the difference we have to make do with McNeil, Brady and JBG!

[ashtonlongsider]

Did anyone enjoy the Chelsea/Spurs match yesterday? I certainly didn't, and the amount of talent and cost on show must have been enough to finance the debt of a few third world countries. Mourinho's teams have usually been dull IMO, and counter attacking. However fans overlook that aspect when your getting results and Jose has certainly done that over the years. You could say the same when Moyes was at Everton where he had a lot of success with the system. Contemporaries like Athletico Madrid, and some of the great Italian sides of yesteryear. You can go on.
Getting back on topic, if I'm being honest, I can't say i've enjoyed the fare over the last couple of seasons. We certainly played better football when Barton was 'strutting his stuff' and fleetingly when Defour was a regular feature. I'm not wholly blaming SD. I'm sure he's equally frustrated. You can see what he's trying to achieve. You only need to look at some of the top class players he's tried to sign over the last 5 years ie Robertson, Phillips, Adams. They would have made a massive difference to our stability and watching experience.

[Spijed]

Fully entrenched in the Stoke / Sunderland / Middlesboro / Blackburn/ West Brom cycle now....

I don't like watching us play defensive football and scraping results..... often leads to a manager change and big overspending to secure players who don't change the results materially, but might do the odd stepover, and the togetherness and team culture gets broken...... often leads to relegation....... often leads to the overspending resulting in further cost cutting...... often leads to signing cheaper players....often leads to poorer results.... sometimes a situation or manager like Dyche, Coyle, Pulis, Warnock, Allardyce (you know, the ones that clubs don't give money to spend) etc come along and get more out of a bunch of players than most other managers do.... if lucky enough to gain promotion again..... enjoy playing the big teams........ then eventually settle back into a world of not enjoying the team play defensive football, scraping results..... leading to a manager change..... ah you get the picture.

And every Rovers fan on their forum BRFCS regrets the day they got rid of Big Sam.

[SalisburyClaret]

Who actually plays attractive football - this year it’s been Dirty Leeds and Southampton and well that’s pretty much it

[Wile E Coyote]

Who actually plays attractive football - this year it’s been Dirty Leeds and Southampton and well that’s pretty much it

good point, and I would include palace.

[jrgbfc]

Fully entrenched in the Stoke / Sunderland / Middlesboro / Blackburn/ West Brom cycle now....

I don't like watching us play defensive football and scraping results..... often leads to a manager change and big overspending to secure players who don't change the results materially, but might do the odd stepover, and the togetherness and team culture gets broken...... often leads to relegation....... often leads to the overspending resulting in further cost cutting...... often leads to signing cheaper players....often leads to poorer results.... sometimes a situation or manager like Dyche, Coyle, Pulis, Warnock, Allardyce (you know, the ones that clubs don't give money to spend) etc come along and get more out of a bunch of players than most other managers do.... if lucky enough to gain promotion again..... enjoy playing the big teams........ then eventually settle back into a world of not enjoying the team play defensive football, scraping results..... leading to a manager change..... ah you get the picture.

I think Stoke actually finished top half about 3 seasons in a row when they first got rid of Pulis. And I bet there won't be many West Brom fans who want him back there.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

I think Stoke actually finished top half about 3 seasons in a row when they first got rid of Pulis. And I bet there won't be many West Brom fans who want him back there.

Strange thing with Pulis who gets lots of flack and yet won promotion with Stoke in 2007/8 and then finished 12,11,13,14 and 13th in successive seasons in the PL before they engaged Mark Hughes who did indeed get them up to 9th on three consecutive seasons before spending a lot of money on players in an effort to change the style of play and was sacked in January 2018.
His time at West Brom saw them finish in 14th and 10th places before he was sacked in November 2017 with them in 17th place after 12 matches and just having lost to Chelsea 4-0.
In between times in November 2013 he managed Crystal Palace and took them away from the relegation zone to finish in their highest position of 11th and win PL Manager of the Year.

Fans have always criticised his style of play, however, he got results and that is what the game is about.

[JTClaret]

I can understand this.

A few years ago we would defend with the same structure and invite pressure as we do now, but there was a grace to our defending that doesn't seem to be there at the moment. Hoofing it forward does appear to be all we do, which is frustrating because we laughed at the 'anti-football' comments, knowing we often sliced through a team with fantastic football. Even McNeil seems to just pass it back for a defender to lump it up-field.

We are missing a midfield though. Literally. Central midfielders missing - Where was Stevens against Man City btw, I've only just realised. And no wingers other than one that isn't showing what he has previously.

All that said. There's something special about a win... and I miss the place.

[box_of_frogs]

Some of our recent performances have been barely different than those we used to see in the 4th division. Center back just goes whoooooooooosh, and the ball comes back......

[Jenny55]

Some of our recent performances have been barely different than those we used to see in the 4th division. Center back just goes whoooooooooosh, and the ball comes back......

Surely you mean the left back and the legend that was Ray whooshy Deakin? RIP Ray, top bloke.

[Shaggy]

We’ve been playing turgid football for a while now.
It’s the only way we can be
Remotely competitive.

[MACCA]

But as SD always has done, the first aim is for it to be nil for the opposition if that happens we gain at least a draw.
We spend so much time on the training ground on framework and defensive drills, actually attacking is always a 2nd thought.
( which you see when the few attacking players get the ball, its check back and restart on the turn over )

Its great when you nick one to get in front, as the game plan doesn't change and we just have to do what we have set out to do, its when we need to react to either being behind or the opposition changing formation, styles on the pitch we seem to be a bit lost.
There's a reason we have quite a poor record when it comes to winning when we have gone behind, yet the flip side is we don't often lose when in front either.


SD is not an attack minded coach who wants to play football on the front foot, we rarely have prolonged periods of pressure, we rely on 2nd balls and 2nd phase play.
We play a lot of percentage football, rather than balls to feet, so we cannot actually control the pace or "feel" of the game.

But its been like that for 8 years, and is always highlighted more when on a bad run, as results often mask performances with styles like the one SD likes us to play.

[Quickenthetempo]

Some of our recent performances have been barely different than those we used to see in the 4th division. Center back just goes whoooooooooosh, and the ball comes back......

But we had players with pace in the side like Conroy, Francis, white and Eli who could chase over the top balls.
Premier league defenders are too quick for us in this style and we're not particularly good in the air either.

[ClaretAL]

1st part is we cant draw conclusions from the City match, despite their obvious depth in talent, it is fair to say Pep has sussed out how to beat us and the proof is in the pudding. So the City match to one aide we have been poor this season, however last season before and after the restart we played some really good passing football mixed in with the long ball, but we have yet to see that this year. Injury's have a lot to do with that and the continuity is just not there, but what is going in the background cant help either, and I cant help think the negativity around the coaching staff is rubbing off on the team.

[Spijed]

But is it actually possible to play better football and survive in the Prem on a low budget season after season?

I can't think of any.

[Devils_Advocate]

But is it actually possible to play better football and survive in the Prem on a low budget season after season?

I can't think of any.

You'd need to define what you class as low budget and are there any other teams that you class as low budget that have survived season after season playing boring defensive football like us or are us and Dyche just an exceptional outlier that has overachieved almost beyond belief?

[Quickenthetempo]

But is it actually possible to play better football and survive in the Prem on a low budget season after season?

I can't think of any.

I think most people would expect the football to improve massively when the wage bill goes from 28m to 90m.

[Jenny55]

Looking at some of the threads over the past few weeks, it is clear that many of us are missing the whole match day experience instead of just the match itself. Now we cannot enjoy the whole match day and just have to watch us for 90 minutes on tv it is more evident how bloody awful we are to watch. One could argue that this style of play has kept us in the Premier League for a prolonged spell, however just like they did with Stoke many of the so called ‘purists’ would love to see the back of us.
I have for the last few years still enjoyed travelling up to Burnley for the match day experience and half expecting us to not play well. This was acceptable. The longer this enforced absence continues, the more of us may fall out of love with watching our club. One thing to be thankful for however, is that our ground is still in Burnley town centre and is still a proper football ground. This contributes massively to the whole match day experience and stimulates the local economy on match days. Just imagine how it would be if we had one of those soulless out of town stadiums say two or three miles from Burnley Centre? The match day experience for me then would be diminished massively. Fingers crossed we will ALL be back on the Turf for the start of 2021/22 season.

[Stalbansclaret]

I think most people would expect the football to improve massively when the wage bill goes from 28m to 90m.

Yes, other things being equal, but the quality of the opposition has improved hugely, along with their relative wage bills too.

[dandeclaret]

I think most people would expect the football to improve massively when the wage bill goes from 28m to 90m.

Even if the competition's wage budget goes from £50m to over £300m? You've gone from a 50% difference to a 70% difference.

As with the 23 game unbeaten run, if you can spend more and have a manager who is better than them all, then you can play good attacking football. When you have a manager who is better than most, but can't spend..... and he gets you a top half finish in the premier league, then i'd say he's a brilliant outlier.

[Quickenthetempo]

Even if the competition's wage budget goes from £50m to over £300m? You've gone from a 50% difference to a 70% difference.

As with the 23 game unbeaten run, if you can spend more and have a manager who is better than them all, then you can play good attacking football. When you have a manager who is better than most, but can't spend..... and he gets you a top half finish in the premier league, then i'd say he's a brilliant outlier.

I think you're getting a little mixed up with results and quality of football. I never criticise our results but most of our players don't seem to want the ball, nobody makes runs to support players. We play the most basic style a team can play. That comes from the manager.

And yes I know it's worked for a few years results wise but have we progressed playing style wise?

[TVC15]

Expecting the quality of football to improve in line with the increase in wages really does not make any sense.
During his tenure there are seasons when we have played very good and enjoyable football - the season with Ings and Vokes up front ; the team with Defour and Cork in the middle and other periods when the likes of Dwight has been playing well.
Our wage bill has increased in line with the increases in TV deals and a sustained period in the Premier League. When we were in the championship under Dyche the first time we got promoted we had some real quality ball players who all hit great form and the second time the simple fact of the matter is that we were one of the richest clubs in that division and could attract the better players.

Right now our football looks bad because it is !! We have injuries, a small squad, players who want to leave, players out of form etc. And add to that a manager who with the players he has at his disposal is playing a style of football that he thinks gives him the best chance of nicking results. If we started trying to play expansive football he clearly does not think that would improve our chances - or else he would do that.

Oh and btw that squad we have got now is not getting paid £90m....it’s at least £10m less and relative to the rest of the divisions wages I’m pretty sure our league position is not that different to where we should be based on our wage bill.

[dandeclaret]

I think you're getting a little mixed up with results and quality of football. I never criticise our results but most of our players don't seem to want the ball, nobody makes runs to support players. We play the most basic style a team can play. That comes from the manager.

And yes I know it's worked for a few years results wise but have we progressed playing style wise?

When Burnley could outfinance the championship under Dyche, in the 23 game run, did they not play a more progressive, passing style? When better teams try to stop you, you have to adapt to what you can do, and figure out a way to win. That's the scenario I see with the club at the moment.

[jrgbfc]

When Burnley could outfinance the championship under Dyche, in the 23 game run, did they not play a more progressive, passing style? When better teams try to stop you, you have to adapt to what you can do, and figure out a way to win. That's the scenario I see with the club at the moment.

Not really. With the odd exception most of that season was about grinding results out. We played much better football in the first promotion under Dyche.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Imagine grinding out results for most of a season and nobody in the division scoring more than you as well as having the best goal difference in the division.

Must have been some odd exception

[Rileybobs]

Not really. With the odd exception most of that season was about grinding results out. We played much better football in the first promotion under Dyche.

Absolute rubbish.

[Stockbrokerbelt]

I think to many supporters listen to average / clueless pundits at times who are trying to sell the prem brand & forget it’s a results based business which is all that counts. Winning is all that counts & to be honest there is nothing more boring than watching the style of football that has the so called entertainment teams spending large parts of the game passing to each other in their own defence area. To me football is about the roar & passion I feel when on the Turf after some drama queen has dived & rolled about like being shot by a sniper or another dodgy decision given against us by the referee which fires up the crowd & transmits to the team. Football without the crowd is nothing & I fully relate to posters on here who are falling out of love with the game that is being spoilt by greed, cheating & biased to the big teams.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Absolute rubbish.

Hardly a shock though is it considering the poster

He will remember the Hull defeat and how poor we were but have no recollection of the 2 x 4-0, 5-0, 4-1 or 3-1 at Brentford (when the first half was very special) scraped wins all around that loss.