The killer of 7 year old Emily Jones found not guilty of murder

[Jakubclaret]

That article simply tells the story of those homeless who are re-offending and getting sent back to prison.
Hardly breaking news that some people who are homeless end up in prison...it’s actually a lot more likely to be the other way round in most cases. A number of people who have committed crimes serious enough for a prison sentence end up homeless. Again hardly breaking news given the impact going in prison has on your ability to gain employment, income, benefits, on the housing list etc

Feel free to post an article about what you said though - homeless people turning up at court with their belongings and being turned down to go to prison when sentenced for their crimes.

The article explains that SOME homeless people commit crimes in order to go to prison, that’s exactly what I stated apart from the belongings, homeless people usually don’t have many belongings apart from maybe a bin bag, I think I’d struggle to post an article mentioning a bin bag, some homeless people obviously do get sent to prison whilst others don’t it depends on how lenient the judge is or the nature of the offences, some homeless people commit crimes in order to get off the streets, you can be resistant to the truth but the article I’ve posted is factual whether you agree with it or not.

[Hapag Lloyd]

Feel free to post an article about what you said though - homeless people turning up at court with their belongings and being turned down to go to prison when sentenced for their crimes.

He did.

[evensteadiereddie]

Oh, it's factual right enough, it was your original claim that was exaggerated, generalised nonsense - as you, yourself, have proved. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Stayingup]

Put up with what? Have you seen their crime stats?

Agree with dsr.

Have you not missed the point?

Its not crime stats is punishment that the poster is referring to.Thats how I read it.

[Stayingup]

And you’re a Dr now? Why should anyone trust your judgment or opinion? You know nothing about this case or the defendant other than the gossip you read in the paper yet you feel fit to cast judgment

I think we all know about this case and sadly what happened. Ther has been a trial you know.

[Jakubclaret]

He did.

Thanks, it’s anything but easy, I don’t blame the homeless for wanting to get off the streets you always see a spike in winter with the cold weather, prison offers a lifeline towards some people, people can say what their want about prison I can’t think of anywhere else where you are guaranteed warmth & security & square meals & a free gym, medication, hairdressers, & a chance to learn practical skills in a workshop, it’s absolute paradise for some people.

[Corky]

Thanks, it’s anything but easy, I don’t blame the homeless for wanting to get off the streets you always see a spike in winter with the cold weather, prison offers a lifeline towards some people, people can say what their want about prison I can’t think of anywhere else where you are guaranteed warmth & security & square meals & a free gym, medication, hairdressers, & a chance to learn practical skills in a workshop, it’s absolute paradise for some people.

How long were you in for?

[Grumps]

I can only comment on how it was in the late 70s, early 80s. Certain people always got arrested to try and be in prison for Xmas. Possibly it hasn't changed, but they will have to commit far more serious offences nowadays to get sent down.

[ElectroClaret]

Sentenced to life imprisonment with a minimum term of eight years.
Sentence to be initially served at Rampton high security hospital. (Sky news/BBC)

[keith1879]

Thanks for that, keith ; informative, well-reasoned and thought-provoking.

Sometimes it helps to set out your own thoughts like that I think. Nice to know that a few people read and understood. Now when will the takeover be complete?

[Boss Hogg]

Sentenced to life imprisonment with a minimum term of eight years.
Sentence to be initially served at Rampton high security hospital. (Sky news/BBC)

This is the problem. There shouldn’t need to be a minimum term of 8 years.

[evensteadiereddie]

Why is that a problem for you ?

[Burnley Ace]

I think we all know about this case and sadly what happened. Ther has been a trial you know.

You know what you have been told by the media, unless you were involved in the proceedings.

[Burnley Ace]

This is the problem. There shouldn’t need to be a minimum term of 8 years.

Since 2003 there-has to be a minimum term set by the Judge. It used to be the Home Secretary but that had to change after the ECHR ruling in the Stafford case.

[Burnley Ace]

Thanks, it’s anything but easy, I don’t blame the homeless for wanting to get off the streets you always see a spike in winter with the cold weather, prison offers a lifeline towards some people, people can say what their want about prison I can’t think of anywhere else where you are guaranteed warmth & security & square meals & a free gym, medication, hairdressers, & a chance to learn practical skills in a workshop, it’s absolute paradise for some people.

The Armed Forces? Not sure that prison today offers you security or a chance to learn practical skills. You must live a pretty **** life if you think prison is an absolute paradise (or read the Daily Mail, but that doesn’t seem to be two mutually exclusive groups!)

[Jakubclaret]

The Armed Forces? Not sure that prison today offers you security or a chance to learn practical skills. You must live a pretty **** life if you think prison is an absolute paradise (or read the Daily Mail, but that doesn’t seem to be two mutually exclusive groups!)

Compared to freezing my nuts off & wondering when I’m going to get booted or swilled in a shop doorway & where my next meal is going to come from, yes prison is certainly paradise, once upon a time people were trying to break out of prison there’s more chance these days of people trying to break in, prison spares people from hunger, hypothermia, lots of other diseases rough living brings, it can save people life’s & completely turn around fortunes.

[Burnley1989]

The Armed Forces? Not sure that prison today offers you security or a chance to learn practical skills. You must live a pretty **** life if you think prison is an absolute paradise (or read the Daily Mail, but that doesn’t seem to be two mutually exclusive groups!)

Almost everybody I've spoken to that's been in prison has said its hell and almost all have never gone back, this idea of it being cushy is a little far fetched, perhaps for your junkies. I'd probably rather be dead that do a long stretch in prison

[TVC15]

Some of the comments on this thread especially from one of the usual suspects is beyond ignorant.

[Burnley Ace]

Almost everybody I've spoken to that's been in prison has said its hell and almost all have never gone back, this idea of it being cushy is a little far fetched, perhaps for your junkies. I'd probably rather be dead that do a long stretch in prison

It’s a myth perpetuated by people who thought that Porridge was a documentary not a comedy!

[Jakubclaret]

Some of the comments on this thread especially from one of the usual suspects is beyond ignorant.

If you try living in the real world you may be able to relate & emphasise with the hardships some people face & understand why serving time in prison is an attractive proposition as opposed to potentially running the risk of death remaining outdoors especially when the mercury plummets.

[Burnley Ace]

Compared to freezing my nuts off & wondering when I’m going to get booted or swilled in a shop doorway & where my next meal is going to come from, yes prison is certainly paradise, once upon a time people were trying to break out of prison there’s more chance these days of people trying to break in, prison spares people from hunger, hypothermia, lots of other diseases rough living brings, it can save people life’s & completely turn around fortunes.

Absolute rubbish, ignorant nonsense written by someone who has never been a “rough sleeper” or recently been in prison.

[FactualFrank]

To be fair, I thought the deterrent would have already been discussed well before Keit's post. Prison is for 3 reasons.

Deter, Protect and Educate. Deter people from doing the same crime, prevent the perpetrator from doing it again whilst locked up, and educate the perpetrator into not doing it again if/when they are finally let out.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Almost everybody I've spoken to that's been in prison has said its hell and almost all have never gone back, this idea of it being cushy is a little far fetched, perhaps for your junkies. I'd probably rather be dead that do a long stretch in prison

I know some people who've been in a few times and they don't mind it tbh.
They've got access to a mobile phone when needed, they can spend time doing physical training, alcohol can be obtained, as can drugs.

Yeah they can't wander about very far, but it's far from being a hell.

I've never come close to being sent to prison, but I wouldn't choose death over incarceration

[Burnley1989]

I know some people who've been in a few times and they don't mind it tbh.
They've got access to a mobile phone when needed, they can spend time doing physical training, alcohol can be obtained, as can drugs.

Yeah they can't wander about very far, but it's far from being a hell.

I've never come close to being sent to prison, but I wouldn't choose death over incarceration

I guess it depends on the prison, crime & character of the individual. I just know I’d not last in prison, especially given 15 years.

[FactualFrank]

I know some people who've been in a few times and they don't mind it tbh.
They've got access to a mobile phone when needed, they can spend time doing physical training, alcohol can be obtained, as can drugs.

Yeah they can't wander about very far, but it's far from being a hell.

I've never come close to being sent to prison, but I wouldn't choose death over incarceration

Did you (or anybody reading this) watch the documentary with Anne Widdicombe where she visited a prison in Norway? It was more like a hotel. Some prisoners were even allowed out to go home for a few hours a day and they'd committed terrible acts.

https://www.entertainmentdaily.co.uk/tv ... s-viewers/

[RingoMcCartney]

The parents of the innocent little girl will be reminded of what that barbaric murderous woman did, every birthday, every milestone, wedding, university graduation, grand children they wont now see. They've been given a true "life sentence."

[TVC15]

If you try living in the real world you may be able to relate & emphasise with the hardships some people face & understand why serving time in prison is an attractive proposition as opposed to potentially running the risk of death remaining outdoors especially when the mercury plummets.

Given I’ve worked with homeless charities for a few years I’ll take the “try living in the real world” comment with a very large pinch of salt from someone who thinks criminal sentencing should be done in the same way as X factor voting.

[Elbarad]

Oddly, for someone who's in favor of the death penalty for murder I'm also in favor of releasing an insane person who killed someone if they could be permanently cured of their illness.The trick of course is, we don't have a way to do that. But who knows, in ten years time we might And no, not just with medication, if she stopped taking her meds she'd be right back in the same mental state. Without doctors and staff forcing the mentally ill to take their medication, often they stop because the medication effects aren't pleasant.

But the point I'm making is if a person is truly insane, they really aren't responsible for their actions. I feel horrible for both parties. Imagine you're the culprit and they manage to control her illness with medication. She has to live with the fact that she killed a little girl, something she'd never do were she not ill.

[Boss Hogg]

If we are not having the death penalty ( which I would fully support) then life has to mean life. This person is not going to get better. After 8 years there will be a decision whether this person can be released if they take their meds. If they stop taking them the consequences will be the same. There are countless examples of others offenders being released when deemed safe and they have committed heanous crimes.

[Jakubclaret]

If we are not having the death penalty ( which I would fully support) then life has to mean life. This person is not going to get better. After 8 years there will be a decision whether this person can be released if they take their meds. If they stop taking them the consequences will be the same. There are countless examples of others offenders being released when deemed safe and they have committed heanous crimes.

I agree, it’s irrelevant regarding the medication there’s no guarantee with or without the medication that the offence won’t be committed again, mental illness is extremely complex to treat even with a double pronged approach - therapy usually CBT & medication, if you could offer cast iron guarantees it’d be simple.

[Devils_Advocate]

For anyone interested in a legal take on the court case, albeit a very short and sweet summarised one

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1334 ... 86338.html

[evensteadiereddie]

Well spotted, DA, a very interesting insight into how the law works.


"Those of us who did not hear the evidence are not best placed to form judgements on the correctness of such decisions."


Indeed - and something one or two posters on here might take on board.

[keith1879]

In the case of mental illness I just cannot see that prison (or even more so) capital punishment has any part to play.

Where (disastrously) a serious offence has been committed then a secure hospital (quite possibly for life) and any possible treatment are the only sensible responses that I can see .... but the real issue should be to be detecting and treating mental illness BEFORE this sort of thing happens. Unfortunately this probably requires a greater level of funding and recruitment of skilled personnel than the UK is likely to invest in.

The editor of the Daily Mail will always be able to make a great headline out of "Mad woman kills little girl" whereas "Several mental patients didn't harm anybody today" will never sell to anybody.