Gambling sponsorship in sport

[Spiral]

Wide-ranging review on gambling laws to begin next week, with gambling sponsorship in sport to be reviewed potentially leading to a ban. There's a line where providing a bit of fun becomes exploiting a person's addiction. Would be good if for no other reason than to bin that manky sponsor on the shirt.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ponsorship

[JohnMac]

Looking forward to Norma's Baps or Vic's Vapes on our shirts for a season.

[Steve1956]

Looking forward to Norma's Baps or Vic's Vapes on our shirts for a season.

Back to Holland's Pie's for us!

[ClaretTony]

I don't gamble so it has no effect on me, but I know it has on others and in the last year or two I have met people for whom it has had a devastating effect on their lives. I met one young football fan who is doing OK now but has his mum checking his bank accounts every day to make sure money isn't coming out. I met a couple whose son took his own life, not because his debts had become unmanageable but because he could see no way out of the world he was in.

Our chief exec at the time was Dave Baldwin and he was very supportive but even he had to deal with horrible shirt sponsors and Ladbrokes on the stand. Burnley FC Supporters Groups set up a working group on this very subject, there to offer help to anyone who might need it and to work with national organisations.

As I said, it has no effect on me, but any review of the law is a step forward.

[Aclaret]

Looking forward to Norma's Baps or Vic's Vapes on our shirts for a season.

Can't see it John, next season get ready for Dunkin Donuts with a giant Donut on the front of the shirt.

[Dy1geo]

I have no real issue regarding Gambling sponsorship in sport, just because a large roulette chip is on the front of a shirt doesn’t make me want to throw my money on red but I understand that some people have an issue with gambling, the question has to be asked do they gamble because of the sponsorship or because they have issues personally.

If gambling is not allowed should high calorie, high cholesterol inducing pie sponsorship be allowed?

[Spiral]

I have no real issue regarding Gambling sponsorship in sport, just because a large roulette chip is on the front of a shirt doesn’t make me want to throw my money on red but I understand that some people have an issue with gambling, the question has to be asked do they gamble because of the sponsorship or because they have issues personally.

If gambling is not allowed should high calorie, high cholesterol inducing pie sponsorship be allowed?

I can sort of sympathise with that argument but only to an extent. The absolute responsibility lies with the individual, and it's only the individual who can ultimately decide to use their will to escape a habit or an addiction. However, it's probably worth recognising that the systems of the brain which lead a person to any form of addiction aren't actually the conscious ones we're in control of (putting metaphysical arguments about determinism aside for a minute for the sake of keeping this simple). I think of a human brain as a complex ecosystem, with a conscious keeper managing and maintaining a small forest. The keeper (read, human consciousness) has a great deal of control over the forest and can sculpt it, nourish it, introduce new species of plant or animal, recognise disease etc. But ultimately the trees, the plants and the animals in the forest (read, the human subconscious) - those things live, breathe, survive and operate according to their own evolutionarily-selected programming, and in human beings the more base and impulsive parts of our brains which we know can propel a person toward addiction operate according to their own programming. If a person is drawn into addiction of any sort by their environment, with external stimuli constantly rewarding the subconscious, impulsive parts of the brain (often starting out as a bit of fun; a routine developing into a habit); if the conscious brain (the keeper) has not the tools to manage the growth of the wilder parts of the forest (the impulsive subconscious), no amount of logical or moral reasoning at a conscious level will ever help an addictive personality overcome the deeply ingrained habitual functions of their brain, because those impulses are at that point far too compelling (because at that point such a person is an addict) and at that point the forest has become too wild to manage without intervention or reassessment. And so it stands to reason that the only way to remedy the effects of those impulses (the oppressively wild forest) on the over-wrought forest keeper is to remove that person from their environment which envelops them. The keeper has been swallowed by the forest, and so he must fight out of it in order to survive. Only from outside the forest can he find the tools to manage that now-wild forest. In this case regarding gambling in sport, in an act of compassion, we can help guide him out with literally zero cost to ourselves and no energy expended whatsoever.

Gambling sponsorship in sport is unique as far as I can tell in that the little nudges and prods in the form of advertising which compel some toward a destructive form of vice are intrinsically linked to the product those adverts are attached to. Sports booking is intrinsically linked to sport. It can't exist without sport. You can't gamble without having something to gamble on. Tobacco, alcohol, gaming, food, sex/porn - they are all addictions which exist in isolation insofar as a person can have a relationship with those things without any intermediary getting in their face and by direct association further compelling them toward their addiction. All those other addictions aren't tied to any 'product', so to speak. They are vices which by their nature are incapable of hitching their wagon directly to any other sort of thing. Advertisers put in a great deal of effort to associate alcohol with a having a good time, for instance, but it isn't intrinsically connected to sport - or anything for that matter - in the way gambling is. Beer is beer in and of itself. As is food, and tobacco. Gambling isn't. It's intrinsically tied to something. The impulse to gambling is just too damn close to sport itself, if you get my meaning, and this is why I think comparisons to other forms of advertising don't stack up.

So it becomes a matter of responsibility for an industry to put distance between itself and its associated vice. And if the industry refuses to do that as a consequence of its own economic logic then it becomes a matter of whether or not a govt is willing to put distance between the industry and the associated vice, and the balance of the scales becomes this: the unfettered rights of companies worth hundreds of millions of pounds to make even more money while potentially destroying the lives of addicts, vs. the right of a govt to utilise the power conferred upon it by its citizens to protect those very citizens. The welfare of a citizenry, vs. the rights of a small handful of multi-million pound companies of low economic output. Ultimately this is what it boils down to. When viewed in these terms it is in my opinion an act of indignity, disgrace and humiliation to advocate for the bookies. I think that if a person wants to maintain even a remote semblance of self respect, in any matter where people are being hurt you should never lick the boots of those doing the hurting whose money you will never touch.

[FactualFrank]

Come on Spiral, sort those paragraphs out properly.

[ClaretTony]

I can sort of sympathise with that argument but only to an extent. The absolute responsibility lies with the individual, and it's only the individual who can ultimately decide to use their will to escape a habit or an addiction.

I agree with you that it is each individual's responsibility but sometimes it becomes very, very difficult to escape addictions, be it drugs, alcohol, gambling or anything else. My only experience of that was being a smoker many years ago. I made it in the end and I was 25 years cigarette free last January.

Once there, it is so hard to resist. Someone mentioned a shirt sponsorship but it isn't that so much but the amount of gambling that surrounds a football match. Look at the advertising boards at grounds when watching on TV, count the number of adverts you see on the TV coverage for one match. It's become ridiculous and given how easy it is now to put on a bet using your phone, it will only increase the temptation for the vulnerable.

I went to a meeting with a charity called Gambling with Lives in August last year. I sat next to two young lads who had both got themselves into trouble. One of them was doing OK and still is, he's the one I mentioned above whose mum now monitors his bank account. The other was very, very nervous, a young non-league footballer who was working hard to break his addiction. I believe he is doing OK too. Sitting with them that afternoon made me realise just what they are going through.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

If they're gonna pull gambling sponsorship then they'll need to pull the bookie booths out of grounds and maybe consider closing bookies that are directly outside of stadiums.

Gambling websites should maybe have a compulsory maximum daily or weekly limit too.

So much more could be done, but it won't be.

[wilks_bfc]

Look at the advertising boards at grounds when watching on TV, count the number of adverts you see on the TV coverage for one match. It's become ridiculous and given how easy it is now to put on a bet using your phone, it will only increase the temptation for the vulnerable.

During our game against West Ham the other year I had a “bored moment”
Between our shirt sponsors (LaBa & Betway), the Ladbrooks CFS and the adverts around the pitch, I counted about 20 betting related adverts in about 5mins

[jrgbfc]

It's not just the shirts, more the fact that it seems to be rammed down your throat at every opportunity. Even on the clubs official twitter page.

[Dy1geo]

Spiral

I read you reply and do understand the point that you are making but to me Gambling is unique in that it is one “addiction” that for many doesn’t do any harm whilst providing positive endorphins.

Many will put on their first goal scorer on a Saturday and it won’t affect them, cigarettes cause harm to the individual, Alcohol like wise not to mention the harm it does to others and junk food contributes to higher cholesterol, diabetes etc

I will agree on one thing and that is the extent of it which could be legislated against but I do not agree to a complete ban.

Ideally I would like our club to be sponsored by UNICEF or another ethical organisation, but I am a realist and understand the revenue gambling sponsorship it brings in.

[gc14]

Not too sure how much influence shirt sponsorship has, I never bought a Poco home or a P3 Computer but have consumed a few
Hollands Pies !! What i think is wrong is the likes of Jose Mourinho ( Paddy Power ) or any other players or managers doing advertisements
as they are considered role models and do influence some people ..

[ClaretTony]

It's not just the shirts, more the fact that it seems to be rammed down your throat at every opportunity. Even on the clubs official twitter page.

There was one match last season, I think it was the cup tie against Peterborough, when Ladbrokes people were pestering people on the concourse to have a bet, even actually grabbing hold of them too. Our club is as bad as any unfortunately.

[Yearofthefox]

Gambling addiction will only get worse not better if the don't put in even more responsibility or restrictions for the vulnerable.

[evensteadiereddie]

I'm astonished that the Paddy Power Jose Mourhino advert is allowed on ITV. I don't blame him particularly but it shows you just how blatant and clunsy the whole selling of betting is.
I bet but on my terms. There are lots of people who can't and the game's authorities have a duty to protect them.

[Devils_Advocate]

Not sure where it sits but I think there is a difference between advertising to promote the brand and advertising to promote the activity (this will overlap in a lot of areas)

Having excessive gambling shops targeted in specific areas, betting booths on the concourse, the adverts on TV and the internet just before and during events offering specific odds for a specific outcome and the online adverts with flashing lights and £ signs are all things that are there to encourage people to gamble and this is the kind of stuff that we should be focusing on as if you want a bet now and then you dont need all this enticing that is really aimed at hooking people

Things like shirt sponsors in my opinion is more around brand awareness so that once people are going to gamble they will use a particular brand over another

Im not against any campaigns or actions to reduce gambling sponsorship in football but if we are going to really address the issues of gambling addiction in our society we need to make sure we focus as much of our energy in the areas that will make a difference and Im not sure shirt sponsorship is one of those areas

[TVC15]

Needs to be one of a set of co-ordinated measures to deal with what has become a major epidemic in this country.

We know the impact banning advertising of smoking had on society but that was still part of a big health campaign and that the real trigger for change has been banning smoking in pubs, restaurants and public places.

With gambling bans and restrictions are of course much more difficult than smoking because of the physical versus online element.

Whilst the restrictions on the casino type machines is now in this came far too late as the authorities pandered to the big bookmakers and also protected their own huge tax revenue. Statistics showed that there was a whole generation of people who became gambling addicts as a result of these machines.

The growth in the profits of the bookmakers and the sheer number of online firms is obscene and its been mostly on the back of the online casino type betting rather than traditional horse racing and other sports betting.

For me I would ban gambling sponsorship in sport but as DA said above there needs to be lots of other initiatives to deal with it and a lot of this needs to be in terms of restricting access / availability, education etc.

[Firthy]

Why not just ban all gambling full stop then there will be no addicts and no advertising. And that includes lotteries and raffles because it is all a form of gambling.

[Belgianclaret]

Nothing we can do against it unfortunately, money rules.
It's a vicious circle: the more gambling sponsorship, the more money they make and the more they sponsor other teams.
The only victims are those who don't have money to gamble in the first place.

[IanMcL]

I am not bothered by all these gambling sites. So many I have never heard of and appeal to a very foreign market, anyway.

I have not made any bets, so bring in the money for the club.

If they do get the boot, we are a shoo in for Corona.

[Claret]

And what the hell good does gambling do? Make money for companies who exploit people so they can make more money for themselves and so on. What benefit to society is that? The betting industry makes life hell for many people. I am sick of the all the ads being rammed down your throat at every opportunity and the hypocrisy of the phrase “gamble responsibly”.

[jdrobbo]

Great news. What I have learned more than anything with some of my online campaigning over the last two years, there are several employees at our football club who I think show ignorance about the effects that gambling can have on mental health.

[Rileybobs]

Why not just ban all gambling full stop then there will be no addicts and no advertising. And that includes lotteries and raffles because it is all a form of gambling.

It’s a good point. The Last Man Standing competition on here is a form of gambling. Granted that it doesn’t have the capability to ruin lives, but it’s gambling nonetheless.

[Spiral]

Spiral

I read you reply and do understand the point that you are making but to me Gambling is unique in that it is one “addiction” that for many doesn’t do any harm whilst providing positive endorphins.

Many will put on their first goal scorer on a Saturday and it won’t affect them, cigarettes cause harm to the individual, Alcohol like wise not to mention the harm it does to others and junk food contributes to higher cholesterol, diabetes etc

I will agree on one thing and that is the extent of it which could be legislated against but I do not agree to a complete ban.

Ideally I would like our club to be sponsored by UNICEF or another ethical organisation, but I am a realist and understand the revenue gambling sponsorship it brings in.

I don't think there's much distance between us on this. For the majority of folk it's harmless, and their fun wouldn't be impinged by an advertising ban because they'd still have access to markets. I'm not in favour of banning gambling, or even banning the advertising of it, but just not advertising it visibly around sport itself. I think it's too predatory to slap adverts on the very thing people are gambling on. A ban on gambling outright would just push people underground to the kind of criminals who smash your car windows or break your legs when you don't pay up.