VAR - Your views

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ClaretTony
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VAR - Your views

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:20 pm

I'll keep a track on this thread but I've posted it to get your views because I'm attending a meeting next week at which this subject will be on the agenda.

I'd like to gather your thoughts and what you would do to improve it, and that can range from nothing because it works perfectly to scrap it or any good suggestions in between.

Pstotto
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Pstotto » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:23 pm

You've clearly made your point.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Pstotto » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:24 pm

Your perspectivism? It's a 9 no it's a 6.

NottsClaret
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by NottsClaret » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:32 pm

Get rid of it because watching football with VAR isn't as enjoyable as watching football without VAR.
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Pstotto » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:32 pm

Premier League PLC both teams different sides of the same mucky coin, VAR heads or tails?

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Sykoclaret » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:34 pm

For me Tony, scrap it. It disrupts the flow of the game. Decisions take so long to make and are just as often wrong as those made by the match officials. It's sucking the life out of the game.
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:35 pm

Get rid of it.

Part of me thinks it was brought in more for the armchair fan at home with very little thought for the fan at the game.

lakedistrictclaret
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by lakedistrictclaret » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:39 pm

Whilst I would like to see it scrapped, that's not going to happen. It's here, and it's here to stay.

However, it needs to be used for "clear and obvious errors", and not to pick through every goal and foul with a fine-toothed comb.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by elwaclaret » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:40 pm

Goal line tech and serious foul play are the very most that is needed.

The point of football is goals and play, not waiting for decisions watching televisions. Football has forgotten it is not about referees.

I am really not bothered about attending... and anyone who knows me knows I lived for Burnley football club. What is the point of getting excited about scoring a goal when you have to constantly wait for five minutes to find out if it is going to count?

It is like being given a present and then having to wait for a panel to decide if you can keep it. Bloody awful and not in the slightest entertaining.
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MACCA
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by MACCA » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:46 pm

Goal line tech is fine
If remaining, offsides to be taken from the feet only for both the attacker and defender. No need to do heads arm pits etc.
Diving to win pens ( also mandatory yellow card if caught cheating )
Off the ball incidents

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by conyoviejo » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:52 pm

Get rid of it,people who are doing the VAR are open to bribery .. Maybe that's why we have seen so many absolutely awful offside and penalty decisions.

edlass
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by edlass » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:55 pm

A summariser on the BBC said the other day something along the lines of
"Yes that VAR decision didn't go their way but across the season they'll get some decisions their way too"

That was their opinion anyway. So the only thing that has changed is the viewing pleasure if football which is now much less. I don't feel that I can properly cheer goals anymore.

My opinion before VAR was yes. Now it's no.
Last edited by edlass on Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by NottsClaret » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:59 pm

Spot on elwa. Since VAR was introduced I've watched more games in the Toolstation Northern Counties East league than I have the Premier League. It's football as it was, ie.. entertaining, non-stop and fun.
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CaptainKirk
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by CaptainKirk » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:00 pm

My view hasn't changed since the idea was first touted (usually by Managers who had just lost a game) - it is a giant leap backwards in terms of the entertainment value of watching a football match.
So many decisions are still subjective and the same Managers are still complaining.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by dsr » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:01 pm

For offsides, stop the practice of judging offside to a fraction of an inch. They don't so it that way in lower leagues or non-league and they don't so it that way for a Premier League corner - they use the human eye. So judge offsides for goals by the human eye. Show the moment the ball is played, and if the players are level - without drawing lines on the pitch and without toggling the odd fraction of a second - then the man is onside under VAR just as he would be under normal linesman's eyesight.

They should remember that the change of rule to "level is onside" was made to give the forward an edge and lead to more goals. Unless they actively support the idea of disallowing what used to be perfectly good goals, they should stress to linesman that the law has not changed and offside was never meant to be judged to the width of an eyelash.
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by ICL » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:04 pm

Goal line technology is fine
I’d scrap VAR as it is ruining the match day experience.
Assuming VAR won’t be removed then improvements to it would be:
1) Offside- this is comes down to a measurement, all measurements have a degree of uncertainty and that uncertainty will be known to the people creating the technology (or should be!), so broaden the lines used by the video refs to reflect that degree of uncertainty. If the lines overlap the players are deemed to be level.
2) Anything else should be ‘clear and obvious’ when viewed at ‘real time speed’, not slow motion.
3) The whole process must be quicker
4) The fans in the stadium must be kept better informed

Sozturf7
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Sozturf7 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:06 pm

Keep it. Offside is offside, foul is foul, However handball needs looking at.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by clansman » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:07 pm

I thought it could be good as in rugby. Unfortunately the people who administer it in England have proved to be pretty incompetent, so I’m for scrapping.
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Moorite
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Moorite » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:07 pm

My opinion on VAR from the beginning has always been if you cannot make a decision within 15 Seconds then it's not clear and obvious.
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Stevie2112 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:11 pm

Get rid,sucking the life out of the game.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Roosterbooster » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:13 pm

ICL wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:04 pm
Goal line technology is fine
I’d scrap VAR as it is ruining the match day experience.
Assuming VAR won’t be removed then improvements to it would be:
1) Offside- this is comes down to a measurement, all measurements have a degree of uncertainty and that uncertainty will be known to the people creating the technology (or should be!), so broaden the lines used by the video refs to reflect that degree of uncertainty. If the lines overlap the players are deemed to be level.
2) Anything else should be ‘clear and obvious’ when viewed at ‘real time speed’, not slow motion.
3) The whole process must be quicker
4) The fans in the stadium must be kept better informed
Agree with all this except part of the offside bit and part of the real time bit.
The faster someone is running, the bigger the margin of error, so a set thickness of line doesn't work. Play the tape and ask without lines "was the linesman's decision clearly and obviously wrong?" Yes or no: decision made.
Some handball decisions become clear and obvious if played a bit slower and a decision can be very quickly. But fouls and dives I think should be real time speed

Id also allow off the ball incidents to be shown back to the ref for them to make a decision. I dont think anyone but the ref should be making the decision on red cards

The clear and obvious bit has to be the key thing for all overturned decisions i'd say

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Roosterbooster » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:15 pm

Sozturf7 wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:06 pm
Keep it. Offside is offside, foul is foul, However handball needs looking at.
I know this is an opinion. But it's nonsense. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many disagreements even after we've all seen 50 angles played 50 times each

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Erasmus » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:17 pm

Many things wrong with the game at the moment, particularly the stupid interpretation of handball, but for me VAR is ruining the game. The worst of it is when a goal is scored and then you have to wait until VAR confirms it. That has a really negative effect on the entertainment value of the game.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by TVC15 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:18 pm

Thought it was a good idea at the start - now think the way it’s being applied in this country is ruining the game.

I think with alteration in some of the rules of the game and it’s application it still could work.
I’d change the offside law for a start - there’s a few ways of making it better than it is now.
I’d still change the hand ball law even further than it has been tweaked recently.
The last few weeks has also shown inconsistency with penalty decisions when somebody gets a touch on the ball before on a few occasions completely taking out the other player.
A few tweaks and listening to the feedback of players and fans and it could work better.

At the moment whilst it seems to be ruining so many games it can be forgotten how many incorrect official calls that VAR has overturned which most people would agree have been for the good of the game. The TV companies don’t bother showing the correct VAR decisions 25 times after every game !

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Wile E Coyote » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:19 pm

Its been a complete disaster since its introduction.
despite the fans clamouring for more technology, this addition has not only dampened any spontaneous celebration, it has rarely achieved its purpose in confirming anything to the satisfaction of supporters.
decades upon decades passed without this in our game, and football was hugely popular.
even though we realise mistakes were made by officials, it was accepted as part and parcel of the game.
var has become a hideous pantomime. it doesn't require tweaking, it needs to be scrapped ASAP.
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by ElectroClaret » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:28 pm

The first weekend it gets scrapped, you can bet your bottom dollar that a manager/fans on the wrong end of a poor decision will be clamouring for it to be brought back.

I'm torn myself, but the goal line technology is fine.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Aclaret » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:28 pm

Scrap it for me too, football shouldn't be about straining your neck looking up at a big screen and waiting for a decision. I know there's many poor refs about but their decision should be final.
Goal line technology should remain as it's a quick decision made on the refs watch.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by ArmchairDetective » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:28 pm

Scrap it.

I enjoy watching Championship football more than I do PL at the moment in part due to VAR (or lack of). I'd tolerate the odd decision going against us to allow for free flowing games. Don't even get me started on the offside decisions. They're atrocious and not in the spirit of the game at all.

If they insist on continuing with it then I'd prefer for the ref in the stadium to make decisions at the side of the pitch and the video replay to be shown on screen in stadiums if possible. During 2018 world cup I had a lot of respect for ref's making such big decisions in front of thousands of fans. I thought it made refereeing decisions more accessible, understandable and tolerable. The way it's implemented in the Premier League is the complete opposite of that. It's made refereeing decisions more out of touch than ever and only leads to frustration and ultimately lack of enjoyment.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Quickenthetempo » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:35 pm

Get rid.

As others have pointed out, the same officials make the same mistakes. It hasn't altered everyone still bickering about decisions, in football now it's not the right or wrong decision, it's just does it benefit you?

It's a lot of money for clubs to spend on something that doesn't improve the game much.

P.S to many officials looking for a foul on everything. We need the good old 'play on' back in the game.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by kritichris » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:40 pm

It's use needs readdressing. Ref's should have more control and only call for VAR if they need it and it should be the ref who views it and makes the call. Off the ball incidents of a serious nature should be brought to the refs attention then he can stop play and view the replays. The offside rule needs revising, either torso or feet, not arms or heads or whatever other bit may be sticking out. Decisions also need to be made more quickly, if it needs a micrometer give benefit of the doubt.
Goal line technology works fine, VAR should too as it does in rugby and cricket, diving needs to be stopped.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by vancouverclaret » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:41 pm

The drawing of lines for offside drives me insane, disallowing a goal because a players little finger was over the line is killing the game. The amount of time it takes is ridiculous, it's bad enough watching it on TV. I can only imagine how it sucks the life out of the atmosphere of being at the game.
When the game starts losing fans that have watched and been passionate about it since being small kids, there's something wrong.
I watch Burnley but cannot be bothered about any others, the majority of games are boring these days, they are so predictable, pass the ball between the defense up to midfield and back to defense... Yawn! Sorry went off topic.
VAR Is just one more nail in the coffin of football.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Funkydrummer » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:41 pm

I applauded it's introduction but, given that they have made such a complete
mess of it, I will applaud it's withdrawal more vigorously.

A lesson in incompetence of the highest order.

GET SHUT - RUINING THE SPECTACLE OF THE GREAT GAME.
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by wilks_bfc » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:42 pm

If being used for offside it needs to be based on a set body part not an armpit against a foot and only for clear and obvious errors, not when the lines “overlap”

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Stproc » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:47 pm

My instant response to to get rid of it, it’s ruining the game for the spectators in attendance. It’s primarily there for tv audiences not fans.

It has improved that the match referee now looks at the monitor, previously they abdicated responsibility to the var official.

The offside where they try to convince us that a forward is offside by an amount that can’t be seen is the height of ridiculousness. As is the lack of action when cheating or overacting is obvious to all.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Colburn_Claret » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:50 pm

There's not a lot wrong with VAR, the main issue is the incompetents using it.

I don't believe there is any need, or desire to cut offside to the nth degree. If it looks close the video ref should ask the attendant ref to review it on the monitor. If you can't judge offside with the naked eye in replay then it's onside.

Football is, and has to be a contact sport, and every contact can't be a foul. Not VAR, but referees need to understand what is a foul and what is simulation, they can't keep defending the indefensible, trying to justify shoddy colleagues.

The handball situation looks like it is being redressed, again. But accidental hand ball shouldn't be penalised, and as you can't have it both ways it shouldn't matter wether you are attacking or defending, if you get lucky, you get lucky.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Dark Cloud » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:52 pm

Brought in to clear up obviously bad calls by officials. Hasn't cleared up owt. The game is still bedogged by bad calls and bizarrely VAR has somehow managed to make it worse.
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by claptrappers_union » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:54 pm

I think footage shown to officials at Stockley Park, on the pitch-side monitor and subsequent definitive replays on the Big Screen need to shown in real-time and not in slow motion. Decisions should be made in context of the actual action.
Last edited by claptrappers_union on Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by jrgbfc » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:58 pm

Get shut, but bring in tougher penalties for managers who then come out every week and slag of referees after a game.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by claptrappers_union » Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:00 pm

Match officials should also do post-match interviews.
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by aclaretinstevenage » Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:34 pm

Get rid for me!
It was bought in to help Referees but does nothing for the fan experience (although I did enjoy Guardiola's crash and burn in the Champions league semi v Spurs). Using the monitor seems to be code for "change the decision". Bamford's pointing arm being offside was ridiculous in the extreme even - though it went against dirty Leeds. These computer cross hair decisions overturning the on field real time decisions actual make the role of the linesmen (or lineswomen just for the woke) redundant so whats the point in them being there?

Sadly I think the TV Companies and especially the pundits love it even though every week they slam a batch of decisions across numerous games and as they are the major source of funding for the Premier League VAR is probably here to stay not only that I think it will get worse still when the European League starts.
It's not too far fetched to think Guardiola, Klippety, Mourinho and co' will be given a couple of reviews of VAR decisions in the European League breaking up the game even further, add them getting their way with ever increasing numbers of substitutes and the game will be more like Rugby than football as we know it.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by JohnMac » Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:34 pm

It had it's moments when it was a novelty, especially laughing when the opposition had a goal disallowed.

Now it's become an untameable beast, used by a group that still lack consistency and HAS stopped the enjoyment of fans and players alike.

It is a tool to micro analyse players body parts in relation to each other whilst continuing to allow diving, shirt pulling, cheating and inconsistency of decisions such as penalties.

It isn't in use outside the elite areas of football so isn't benefitting the game in any way.

GET RID OF IT COMPLETELY.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Transpennine » Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:37 pm

1. Get rid. However that isn't going to happen
2. Use the principle of 'umpires call' from cricket. The aim is to get rid of the howler, support the official and back the onfield decisions unless theyre completely incorrect.
Principles are accepted. Its not about getting every decision right, because there's an acceptance that its almost impossible.

Its sport, emotive and imperfect.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Jakubclaret » Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:44 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:00 pm
Match officials should also do post-match interviews.
Why? It won’t change anything, the last thing I want to listen to is a load of old guff about we are human & we made a mistake blah blah, when it’s gone it’s gone, getting a reminder about it isn’t just sticking the knife in it’s twisting it,
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Steve1956
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Steve1956 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:48 pm

VAR has ruined the beautiful game and thats a shame,spontaneous celebration by players and fans alike has been taken away,i much preferred it how it was.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Jakubclaret » Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:55 pm

We’ve replaced a system with another system making more mistakes & people say it will eventually get better, you couldn’t make it up!
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Clarets4me » Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:04 pm

Offside rule to be clarified, the torso should be the offside line, as in a sprinting race ....

All VAR decisions, bar offside, to be referred to the on-field referee, he then makes the TV screen signal, and goes to pitch side to view the incident. He then makes the decision, with no further input from anyone, preserving his authority. In addition, all matches with VAR, should have the Rugby system of " Time off " ( ie: stopping the clock ), at substitutions, injuries and VAR delays, which would make injury time clear and transparent ..

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by SalisburyClaret » Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:12 pm

Offsides are ridiculous, the attention is always on the player furthest forward and never at when the ball is struck by the passing player. So you get millimetre decisions at one end and no attention at the other.

Keep goal line technology and for very obvious referring errors.

Using it in conjunction with dumb rules like the new handball just adds insult to injury and destroys the spectacle for the fan.

Use the technology where it works but keep it simple

Nonayforever
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Nonayforever » Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:29 pm

From a fans point of view - scrap it.

On a more logical note, as scrap it isn't going to happen, change the rules to make VAR more applicable to the moment in time and take into account the "speed of play" - ie, not what happens in the millisecond the camera see's , what the ref see's ( handball & offsides ) Fouls will always be contentious no matter what happens.

On another note, VAR is here to create a 2 minute gap to allow ads on TV, not create a level playing field as the authorities try to force feed fans with false information. Just be aware of that rather than limp blindly into thinking the authorities have our best interests at heart.

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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by scouseclaret » Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:26 pm

I was a big fan of VARs introduction as I felt it was a potential “leveller” that would stop the bigger clubs getting most of the marginal decisions. However, what we seem to have achieved is replacing one set of controversy with another, and we spend more time arguing about VAR decisions than we did about referees before!

That said, I think a lot of the problem is not so much the concept, but the way it has been implemented, which has resulted in confusion and inconsistency. So, I would:

- keep it for offside, but introduce a reasonable margin of error
- keep it for serious foul play incidents, but also clamp down on instances of blatant play acting
- everything else is “referee’s call” , but VAR refs must have the guts to properly challenge incorrect calls, like Barnes not being given a pen v Norwich last season!

Elizabeth
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Re: VAR - Your views

Post by Elizabeth » Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:28 pm

Keep VAR , change the offside law, change who is officiating in the control room
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