Vydra

Safron · Post by **Safron** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:50 pm

Ok then time to discuss, WHAT the hell as this lad done wrong?
At home desperately in need of 3 points against a team in dire form and NOT even given 1 yes 1 bloody minute, what does the boy have to do turn water into wine walk on hot coals ???

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:53 pm

This subject has Been done to death pal move on

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:53 pm

No need to risk him. We’ve triggered the contract extension so as to get a fee in Jan or the Summer.

Nonayforever · Post by **Nonayforever** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:53 pm

What does he have to do ;-

Run slower
Jump higher
Elbow a couple of centre halves
Be offside more often
Fall over when near the opposition.

Shaggy · Post by **Shaggy** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:54 pm

He’s not a Dyche player it’s as simple as that

Conroysleftfoot · Post by **Conroysleftfoot** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:55 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:53 pm
No need to risk him. We’ve triggered the contract extension so as to get a fee in Jan or the Summer.

I think you are spot on with this.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:56 pm

I'm not convinced Dyche even wanted him.

Safron · Post by **Safron** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:57 pm

This was a game crying out for the lad

Guller Bull · Post by **Guller Bull** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:59 pm

I like Vydra and he shows what we all love, that abillity to run around a lot but he needs to be a damn site more clinical when he gets his chance. He has obviously got talent but he doesn't lead the line like Wood does, he doesn't create that spark of creativity consistently like Jay does. He isn't a rough house that creates a safety barrier for the midfield and defense like Barnes does.

He is a good player and on his day can score great goals and create great link up. But he needs to deliver that consistently when he gets his rare chances.

Safron · Post by **Safron** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:59 pm

Steve1956 wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:53 pm
This subject has Been done to death pal move on

Maybe but he is the ONLY alternative attacking option we have that changes our team dynamics

Safron · Post by **Safron** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:01 pm

Guller Bull wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:59 pm
I like Vydra and he shows what we all love, that abillity to run around a lot but he needs to be a damn site more clinical when he gets his chance. He has obviously got talent but he doesn't lead the line like Wood does, he doesn't create that spark of creativity consistently like Jay does. He isn't a rough house that creates a safety barrier for the midfield and defense like Barnes does.

He is a good player and on his day can score great goals and create great link up. But he needs to deliver that consistently when he gets his rare chances.

Partnered with jay post lockdown was fantastic no debate

Boss Hogg · Post by **Boss Hogg** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:20 pm

He has too much pace to be a Dyche player.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:23 pm

In the absence of Beamish...

: 0076d9e94bee7dfe208efc191073bfd6.png (935.78 KiB) Viewed 4204 times

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:23 pm

Doesn’t smile enough apparently

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:28 pm

I'd put him 3rd behind Jay and Wood.

Whether it's him or Barnes that comes on is completely down to the opposition and how the game is going. Some games will suit Barnes more. Some will suit Vydra more.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:31 pm

Safron wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:57 pm
This was a game crying out for the lad

There have been a few...

To answer the OP though... prob change his name to Ashley "i'll suck it Boss" Barnes.

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:34 pm

Like a lot of people could see that game was crying out for some quick passing behind Jay and support from an advanced midfield position, we probably would have won if he had at least 30-40 minutes as Everton were on the ropes in first half, big opportunity missed to get out of bottom 3.

Bringing Barnes on just made us look like one trick ponys

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:36 pm

Safron wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:50 pm
Ok then time to discuss, WHAT the hell as this lad done wrong?
At home desperately in need of 3 points against a team in dire form and NOT even given 1 yes 1 bloody minute, what does the boy have to do turn water into wine walk on hot coals ???

he has to be good enough to play in the Premier League and overall he's not shown that. I've said it before, Vydra gets better and better the longer he's not in the team.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:37 pm

Safron wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:01 pm
Partnered with jay post lockdown was fantastic no debate

Could you confirm how many goals he scored post lockdown? To save you looking it up, it was none.

Aclaret · Post by **Aclaret** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:40 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:36 pm
he has to be good enough to play in the Premier League and overall he's not shown that. I've said it before, Vydra gets better and better the longer he's not in the team.

Which begs the question Tony...why was he signed ? and for big money too.

MT03ALG · Post by **MT03ALG** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:41 pm

Not sure how clinical Wood was today....

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:42 pm

Aclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:40 pm
Which begs the question Tony...why was he signed ? and for big money too.

Late signing and scored a lot of goals in the Championship - but he's failed every time he's been in the Premier League. He can look good occasionally but in my view he isn't going to be a player who ever plays regularly in the Premier League. We got him, of course, because the Rodriguez deal failed when West Brom were able to keep hold of him. At the time we thought it might be a better signing but is clearly not.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:32 pm

I think the trouble is that it’s anything but clear.

There have been many times, especially this season when the front two have looked incredibly out of their depth and ineffective, and the game was crying out for a change of tack. Introducing a little pace and a different approach could well open the door, if not for the lad himself, but for another team member.

For me, it’s a case of an asset underused. In his all too brief cameos he has more than shown he brings something other than the overused and easily subdued battering ram. We are so one dimensional it’s no wonder we find ourselves well sussed by the opposition and struggling to open them up.

Hedontplayforyou · Post by **Hedontplayforyou** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:36 pm

Might not have scored any goals, but stretches teams defences more than our other strikers, it’s all about having different tools to manipulate situations .

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:43 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:37 pm
Could you confirm how many goals he scored post lockdown? To save you looking it up, it was none.

There were quite a few players in that team that didn't score, but overall we played well, looked decent, created chances and had mid-table form.
It's the way that he contributes to the overall shape of the team that many of us approve of. (But as someone else said, we've debated this frequently, and no one will change their minds.
You either prefer the Dyche / Barnes way or the more nuanced, varied and skillful approach of Rodriguez and Vydra.
(Admittedly though, his goals per minute record isn't great).

Safron · Post by **Safron** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:43 pm

Hedontplayforyou wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:36 pm
Might not have scored any goals, but stretches teams defences more than our other strikers, it’s all about having different tools to manipulate situations .

Exactly although I think CT is more of the thought of dyche put the lad down before play him, not good enough! well give the lad a bloody chance

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:47 pm

nil_desperandum wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:43 pm
There were quite a few players in that team that didn't score, but overall we played well, looked decent, created chances and had mid-table form.
It's the way that he contributes to the overall shape of the team that many of us approve of. (But as someone else said, we've debated this frequently, and no one will change their minds.
You either prefer the Dyche / Barnes way or the more nuanced, varied and skillful approach of Rodriguez and Vydra.
(Admittedly though, his goals per minute record isn't great).

You’ve summed it up with the line in brackets. He misses far too many chances and doesn’t always put a shift in. It’s nothing to do with the Dyche/Barnes way. Vydra is obviously a good player a level down but it seems not in the Premier League.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:49 pm

For what it's worth, I think Vydra can do a good job in the Premier League. Like I've said, he's completely different to Barnes, which makes him and Barnes both solid options to have on the bench.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:54 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:47 pm
You’ve summed it up with the line in brackets. He misses far too many chances and doesn’t always put a shift in. It’s nothing to do with the Dyche/Barnes way. Vydra is obviously a good player a level down but it seems not in the Premier League.

Well if the worst comes to the worst....we should hang on to him.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:02 pm

tim_noone wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:54 pm
Well if the worst comes to the worst....we should hang on to him.

Yeah. He's a good Championship player at best...maybe we'll need one next season.

Let's hope not.

Safron · Post by **Safron** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:05 pm

Ok what else have we got , hmmmmmm , nothing that's how it is ,so he is our only attacking choise apart from Barnes

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:10 pm

FactualFrank wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:56 pm
I'm not convinced Dyche even wanted him.

Supposedly Dyche told him he wanted him because he offered something different to our other strikers.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:18 pm

Despite accepting that he has certain limitations I still don't see why he doesn't get on as a 15-20 minute sub, a bit of pace would be handy towards the end of a game.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:23 pm

He's our fourth best striker, hence him being our fourth choice striker. When the three better strikers are fit it is unlikely that he will feature much. It's a shame because he offers us something a little different, but he's not as suited to our style of play as the other three.

Barnes did very well when he came on today. And as you claim we were desperate for a win, I would argue that the three strikers who featured are more of a proven goal threat, so surely the chances of winning were increased with them on the pitch as opposed to Vydra.

claretcarrot93 · Post by **claretcarrot93** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:23 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:47 pm
You’ve summed it up with the line in brackets. He misses far too many chances and doesn’t always put a shift in. It’s nothing to do with the Dyche/Barnes way. Vydra is obviously a good player a level down but it seems not in the Premier League.

When has he not put a shift in? That is just a lie. Should get more game time he has never played as bad as Barnes has played in his last 10 games

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:29 pm

claretcarrot93 wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:23 pm
That is just a lie

A lie? Get real. I've got an opinion and my opinion is that Vydra is not good enough to play regularly in the Premier League. It's an opinion, not a matter of fact and therefore to suggest it is a lie is laughable. You obviously see more in Vydra than I do.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:31 pm

Never seen him not put a shift in.

Also, not convinced he's had enough proper game time in the PL for folk to be sure he's not good enough for this level. I'd want to see much more before making that decision.

If you'd only just started watching Burnley this season, you would have come to the conclusion both Wood AND Barnes aren't good enough for this level.

claretcarrot93 · Post by **claretcarrot93** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:33 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:29 pm
A lie? Get real. I've got an opinion and my opinion is that Vydra is not good enough to play regularly in the Premier League. It's an opinion, not a matter of fact and therefore to suggest it is a lie is laughable. You obviously see more in Vydra than I do.

You said he sometimes does not put a shift in. Thats a lie

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:34 pm

He’d be more effective than Barnes at the minute. It’s baffling and infuriating why Dyche doesn’t give him at least the same game time as the other substitute strikers.

He really is a stubborn prick at times.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:35 pm

I see that people want Vydra to do well and get a chance. I also would enjoy him playing more because he demands the ball to ground more than our other strikers. But he isn't a favorite and doesn't suit the percentage game.

I don't get all the fighting in the thread. Its just opinions. Nothing else. Get a grip!

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:36 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:47 pm
You’ve summed it up with the line in brackets. He misses far too many chances and doesn’t always put a shift in. It’s nothing to do with the Dyche/Barnes way. Vydra is obviously a good player a level down but it seems not in the Premier League.

Referring back to one of your previous posts about Vydra. When did Barnes last score, and what's his goals / minute ratio over the past 12 months?
(You'll know better than me, but I think his last goal was on Nov 23rd 2019, and in 15 appearances since then we've only actually wonone game. When Vydra came into the team last Febuary we played 13 games to the end of the (extended) season and only lost 2).

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:38 pm

bobinho wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:31 pm
If you'd only just started watching Burnley this season, you would have come to the conclusion both Wood AND Barnes aren't good enough for this level.

Not sure how that's relevant.

Dyche isn't immune to poor judgement, but he sees our players day in and day out and if he doesn't think that Vydra is quite up to it then I'm happy to trust his view over fans who, apart from a couple of good performances, haven't seen anywhere near enough of him.

Nonayforever · Post by **Nonayforever** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:54 pm

You can only base an argument on what you have seen, and for me the best game I watched last season was against Arsenal with Jay and Matty up front. I know we didn't win, but i would pay good money every week to see my team go toe to toe with one of the best teams in Europe in an entertaining game.

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:04 pm

I cannot see why this has made a post. I cannot get excited when he comes on. He got quite a few chances post lockdown against some of the lower side and never ever looked like scoring. Bringing Barnes on today was absolutely the right move and his contribution was immense for the 20 or so minutes. He got under the skin of their defence. Another 10 minutes of play today might have been interesting

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:08 pm

claretcarrot93 wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:33 pm
You said he sometimes does not put a shift in. Thats a lie

No it isn't. It's an opinion.

claretcarrot93 · Post by **claretcarrot93** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:09 pm

FactualFrank wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:08 pm
No it isn't. It's an opinion.

Suck up

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:10 pm

claretcarrot93 wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:09 pm
Suck up

Do one Dowie. If you're going to post at least post some sense.

claretcarrot93 · Post by **claretcarrot93** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:13 pm

FactualFrank wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:10 pm
Do one Dowie. If you're going to post at least post some sense.

Sense like I could defend against Ronaldo 1 v 1 and that i am faster than him?

BOYSIE31 · Post by **BOYSIE31** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:16 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:36 pm
he has to be good enough to play in the Premier League and overall he's not shown that. I've said it before, Vydra gets better and better the longer he's not in the team.

Looked ok when he got a run last season so you talking dribble again

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:25 pm

File alongside Bamford.