PSG v Istanbul
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PSG v Istanbul
Both PSG & Istanbul Başakşehir have left the pitch after the 4th official used racist words against Demba Ba. (allegedly)
astounding
astounding
Last edited by Vegas Claret on Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
If he has, then they have 100% done the right thingVegas Claret wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:31 pmBoth PSG & Istanbul Başakşehir have left the pitch after the 4th official used racist words against Demba Ba.
astounding
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
Agreed.
And if he hasn’t, and if it’s something else like a thinly veiled political dig at the current French to Turkey leader / elected / probable dictator diplomatic spat (or something else)?
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
We are talking about footballers..box_of_frogs wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:14 pmAgreed.
And if he hasn’t, and if it’s something else like a thinly veiled political dig at the current French to Turkey leader / elected / probable dictator diplomatic spat (or something else)?
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
There’s a cafuffle on the Istanbul bench and the ref asks the fourth official who should be sent off and he replies “Negro” which translated is “the black guy” in Romanian
Then Demba Ba and the assistant coach (who the 4th official said should get the red card), start kicking off asking why they referred to him as “Negro”
Then Demba Ba and the assistant coach (who the 4th official said should get the red card), start kicking off asking why they referred to him as “Negro”
Last edited by Winstonswhite on Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: PSG v Istanbul
I prefer to wait to get more factual information before commenting further.
Re: PSG v Istanbul
Well? They are political now. Doubt most know it though.
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
Sky reporting IB refusing to play on if 4th official just swaps jobs with the VAR, as he would still be involved in the game. PSG are supporting them by refusing to play on until EUFA apologise to IB.
Re: PSG v Istanbul
Is the fourth official a Millwall fan ?
Re: PSG v Istanbul
Maybe people should wait for the facts before accusing the 4th official of racism.
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
Or defending him.
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
Demba Ba accused him of racism, all the players walked off the pitch. Nobody on here is doing anything other than reporting that.
Last edited by Vegas Claret on Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
Innocent until proven guilty, or are you saying he's guilty until proven innocent Eddie?
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
Maybe you could edit in an "alledgedly" or "reportedly" in your OP somewhere?Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:03 pmDemba Ba accused him of racism, all the players walked off the pitch. Nobody on here is doing anything than reporting that.
The last thing the mods want right now is to have a political debate break out.
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
The facts are out there and not in dispute. All there is left is for all the usual suspects on Social Media to defend the 4th official for referring to the assistant manager as "this black guy" to identify him as if that is perfectly normal and would be used exactly the same if it was a white guy he was identifying
As said the facts are there, everything was mic'd up so over to you guys to make up your excuses and defend the racists like we saw with the Millwall fans at weekend
On a side note faIr play to the QPR players tonight a Millwall which after tonights events is even more important
As said the facts are there, everything was mic'd up so over to you guys to make up your excuses and defend the racists like we saw with the Millwall fans at weekend
On a side note faIr play to the QPR players tonight a Millwall which after tonights events is even more important
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
What a mess!
Something tells me this story will run and run... although this thread probably won't!
Something tells me this story will run and run... although this thread probably won't!
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
If the 4th official used a racist term as he's alleged to have done, then both teams are 100% correct in leaving the field, and I can't see this game resuming tonight, there is a hope that it might be resumed or even played from scratch tomorrow, but I strongly suspect they'd have to recruit a whole new set of officials.
Whatever the full details are, and they'll no doubt come out in the coming days, the situation is a tad embarrassing for UEFA to say the least, the good aspect of this is that at long last the players have rightly taken a stand, and in a very public manner, this might and I stress might be a watershed moment similar to the England game in Bulgaria.
Whatever the full details are, and they'll no doubt come out in the coming days, the situation is a tad embarrassing for UEFA to say the least, the good aspect of this is that at long last the players have rightly taken a stand, and in a very public manner, this might and I stress might be a watershed moment similar to the England game in Bulgaria.
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
2205 hrs on the BBC Sport site:
“The Turkish president has made a statement asking Uefa to intervene and condemning what has happened.”
Politics written all over it. Just not the blue v red, right v left that permeates most threads on here.
Edit - or he was racist and the right decision was made. Who knows.
Re: PSG v Istanbul
What an absolute farce football has become. It seems every week the actual game is becoming lost in a myriad of politics and controversy. I've just realised I don't even know the result of Millwall's game at the weekend. That didn't seem to matter. All we get now are VAR decisions, racism issues, virtue signalling, anti-virtue signalling, wokists, the unwoke, BLM, planes with banners, rainbow laces, female commentators, diversity etc etc. I've had enough. I just want to watch a game of football.
Last edited by groove on Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
If they really have walked off because they don't like the Romanian word for "black", then I suppose that would be racism. Anti-Romanian. I winder if the 4th official has any comeback?
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
This isn't a trial court.Barry_Chuckle wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:03 pmInnocent until proven guilty, or are you saying he's guilty until proven innocent Eddie?
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
The most unhinged post so far.groove wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:18 pmWhat an absolute farce football has become. It seems every week the actual game is becoming lost in a myriad of politics and controversy. I've just realised I don't even know the result of Millwall's game at the weekend. That didn't seem to matter. All we get now are VAR decisions, racism issues, virtue signalling, anti-virtue signalling, wokists, the unwoke, BLM, planes with banners, rainbow laces, female commentators, diversity etc etc. I've had enough. I just want to watch a game of football.
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
I hesitate to post on this thread, but surely the point is:
It doesn't matter what nationality you are, or what language you speak, if you've risen to the level of officiating at top level EUROPEAN matches, then you should be aware of what terms / words are acceptable, and which aren't
The potential defence: that it was a linguistic "misunderstanding" (or whatever), simply doesn't wash if you are on the touchline at this level. Use of language and protocols should be a part of their training and preparation for the game. (In fact, at that level, they should really swot up on the players names in advance of the match, and if they can't give a name the protocol should be to identify by a player's number.)
It doesn't matter what nationality you are, or what language you speak, if you've risen to the level of officiating at top level EUROPEAN matches, then you should be aware of what terms / words are acceptable, and which aren't
The potential defence: that it was a linguistic "misunderstanding" (or whatever), simply doesn't wash if you are on the touchline at this level. Use of language and protocols should be a part of their training and preparation for the game. (In fact, at that level, they should really swot up on the players names in advance of the match, and if they can't give a name the protocol should be to identify by a player's number.)
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
THIS ^^^^.nil_desperandum wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:55 amI hesitate to post on this thread, but surely the point is:
It doesn't matter what nationality you are, or what language you speak, if you've risen to the level of officiating at top level EUROPEAN matches, then you should be aware of what terms / words are acceptable, and which aren't
The potential defence: that it was a linguistic "misunderstanding" (or whatever), simply doesn't wash if you are on the touchline at this level. Use of language and protocols should be a part of their training and preparation for the game. (In fact, at that level, they should really swot up on the players names in advance of the match, and if they can't give a name the protocol should be to identify by a player's number.)
All of the above (bar the numbers on players comment) should also include and be applied to players so their "excuse" of ignorance and/or stating cultural differences, etc etc re social media etc as an excuse - are void.
Therefor if you live and work in any country you understand these things - no excuse.
If you post globally - eg social media - no excuse.
And then can we please stop all the diving.
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
I've added it, I was reporting the story as it is football related, not the facts one way or the other and have zero intention of starting or joining in with any sort of debate on the topic for exactly the reasons you have pointed out.
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
It's not even the Romanian word for black that's offensive, as some Dishonest people will try to suggest. You don't refer to someone as "the black one" in any language. Unless you're racist garbage, of course. And to pre-empt the racist garbage who are allowed to post on this site, if you're OK with it then you're racist garbage too.nil_desperandum wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:55 amI hesitate to post on this thread, but surely the point is:
It doesn't matter what nationality you are, or what language you speak, if you've risen to the level of officiating at top level EUROPEAN matches, then you should be aware of what terms / words are acceptable, and which aren't
The potential defence: that it was a linguistic "misunderstanding" (or whatever), simply doesn't wash if you are on the touchline at this level. Use of language and protocols should be a part of their training and preparation for the game. (In fact, at that level, they should really swot up on the players names in advance of the match, and if they can't give a name the protocol should be to identify by a player's number.)
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
I follow John Barnes on Twitter, he’s really interesting on race and football and he posts eloquently on the subject all the time. Good to get a black footballer’s perspective and insight instead of either a racist moron or some white fella being offended on his behalf.
Anyway, he thinks if it was a case of an official pointing out a coaching staff member as ‘the black one’ (in Romanian) when asked to identify him then he thinks it’s ludicrous that it’s an issue.
Which is interesting and quite unexpected for him. But of course it is only one opinion, obviously Demba Ba and a lot of other players felt differently. It’ll be good to get more information and to me it does instinctively feel wrong. It’s something I’d hopefully not say.
But goes to show that not everyone perceives racism the same way, like everything, there is some nuance. Unless John Barnes is ‘racist garbage’ too of course.
Anyway, he thinks if it was a case of an official pointing out a coaching staff member as ‘the black one’ (in Romanian) when asked to identify him then he thinks it’s ludicrous that it’s an issue.
Which is interesting and quite unexpected for him. But of course it is only one opinion, obviously Demba Ba and a lot of other players felt differently. It’ll be good to get more information and to me it does instinctively feel wrong. It’s something I’d hopefully not say.
But goes to show that not everyone perceives racism the same way, like everything, there is some nuance. Unless John Barnes is ‘racist garbage’ too of course.
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
Barry_Chuckle wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:03 pmInnocent until proven guilty, or are you saying he's guilty until proven innocent Eddie?
Of course not ! What I'm saying is that it's neither OK to speculate about the bloke's alleged racism nor to immediately assume he's done nothing wrong.
In other words, as others have pointed out, better to wait and see rather than, on the one hand, condemn the chap or, on the other, make lame excuses for him.
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
Maybe you are, bud, but most of us are pretty well-adjusted, reasonable and not frightened of life or other people.
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
This is a genuine question, why not the black one if it is a distinguishing feature? I thought that referring to black people of colour as black was acceptable? If I was among 6 black people and I was identified simply as “the white one” I wouldn’t be offended. It seems here that it’s the specific word used that has caused offence.PeterWilton wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:04 amIt's not even the Romanian word for black that's offensive, as some Dishonest people will try to suggest. You don't refer to someone as "the black one" in any language. Unless you're racist garbage, of course. And to pre-empt the racist garbage who are allowed to post on this site, if you're OK with it then you're racist garbage too.
By the way I’m not defending the official at all as I’ve not seen the incident or heard any audio and clearly whatever he has done has caused an unpleasant scene and upset at least one person. I’m just intrigued as to why referring to someone as the ‘black one’ is considered to be offensive.
Re: PSG v Istanbul
#failed
Last edited by Zlatan on Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: PSG v Istanbul
John Barnes is a pwopa bounty and the 4th official was ridiculous coming out with what he did. The ones saying otherwise are lowest of the low. Go join the 'suicide squad' lol.
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
It has come to a point in our society where we have to be extremely cautious with what we say because people have become way too sensitive. You cannot speak freely without offending someone these days and this is really a nuisance. More terms have been labelled as offensive in this generation than at any time before. People need to realise that not everything that is said is meant to be offensive, it is just a style of talking that people may use.
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
If you can’t speak freely without offending someone then maybe you need to have a little think about what you’re saying.pushpinpussy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:54 amYou cannot speak freely without offending someone these days and this is really a nuisance.
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
If he literally just meant “ the black guy” which surely an appointed official would mean ? Then it’s a ridiculous overreaction .If he’s called him a “ n*****” “ well it’s understandable . Referring to a man by skin colour when you don’t know his name is hardly offensive surely ?Eg few lads warming up pre game and you’re impressed by the one black in the group “ the black lad is very impressive “ ?
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
A quick google translate shows the Romanian for black to be “Negru”
Now the question that we don’t know the answer to yet is, did Ba hear this word and think it was the other word?
Now the question that we don’t know the answer to yet is, did Ba hear this word and think it was the other word?
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
No, Ive seen the footage with the audio of Ba and the anger is nothing to do with misunderstanding the word Negru but more of why did he refer to him as the black one when they never hear white people described as the white one (Ba uses the phrasing the black guy and doesnt reference the use of the Negru word at all).
The audio of the discussion is quite clear and his point is why is it always the 'black guy' but never the 'white guy'
Re: PSG v Istanbul
That's an easy one to answer. Because there was only one black guy among several white guys. It's a clear identifier.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:17 amThe audio of the discussion is quite clear and his point is why is it always the 'black guy' but never the 'white guy'
Why did the often refer to Peter Crouch as tall but never referred to Gary Lineker asd being of average height? Because height is what makes Crouch stand out. Why is Strachan described as red haired but Lineker never described as black haired? Because black hair doesn't stand out from the crowd.
The question isn't why he said it, that's obvious; the question is, is it permitted to refer to a man's skin colour in describing him?
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
Based on your posting history it doesn’t seem to have been much of an issue for you !!pushpinpussy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:54 amIt has come to a point in our society where we have to be extremely cautious with what we say because people have become way too sensitive. You cannot speak freely without offending someone these days and this is really a nuisance.
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
That's the question I was asking above.dsr wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:25 amThat's an easy one to answer. Because there was only one black guy among several white guys. It's a clear identifier.
Why did the often refer to Peter Crouch as tall but never referred to Gary Lineker asd being of average height? Because height is what makes Crouch stand out. Why is Strachan described as red haired but Lineker never described as black haired? Because black hair doesn't stand out from the crowd.
The question isn't why he said it, that's obvious; the question is, is it permitted to refer to a man's skin colour in describing him?
If referring to a black person as black is offensive, how do we rationalise the use of the word black in the slogan black lives matter.
It's a minefield.
Re: PSG v Istanbul
Pretty sure the fourth official should have known his name.AlargeClaret wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:31 amIf he literally just meant “ the black guy” which surely an appointed official would mean ? Then it’s a ridiculous overreaction .If he’s called him a “ n*****” “ well it’s understandable . Referring to a man by skin colour when you don’t know his name is hardly offensive surely ?Eg few lads warming up pre game and you’re impressed by the one black in the group “ the black lad is very impressive “ ?
Re: PSG v Istanbul
Not trying to justify what was said at all as I think everyone just needs to wait for details and facts to emerge first but not sure the officials should have know his name - wasn’t he one of what looked like a number of back room staff / coaches ?
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Re: PSG v Istanbul
He was a substitute, named in the matchday squad.
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