How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
This is probably aimed at the more elderly of our fans,but after watching the match last night and the subsequent knicker wetting on AFTV it came as a huge shock to them that we beat them on their own patch,it got me wondering what their [and the other 'top 6'] fans and media in general thought about us when we did it week after week in the 60s? Were we still little old Burnley then and,as Martin Tyler put it,'after all,theyre only a small town in Lancashire'.Anyone enlighten me?
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
I suspect it was a more level playing field on and off the field. And was less about budgets than it is now.
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
I was still at school in the 60s, but I don't ever remember clubs being referred to by their perceived 'size'. They were just football clubs. Obviously Man Utd always were always seemed to be referred to in deferential manner but I think that was mainly due to the 'Munich' effect. I think the increase in wealthy owners, TV money and the size of transfer fees paid has brought the size of clubs into the forefront.
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
We won the league in 1960, I wasn’t around but I’m pretty sure that would have enhanced our reputation.colner wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:40 pmThis is probably aimed at the more elderly of our fans,but after watching the match last night and the subsequent knicker wetting on AFTV it came as a huge shock to them that we beat them on their own patch,it got me wondering what their [and the other 'top 6'] fans and media in general thought about us when we did it week after week in the 60s? Were we still little old Burnley then and,as Martin Tyler put it,'after all,theyre only a small town in Lancashire'.Anyone enlighten me?
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
When I first started watching in 1959 (a good time to start) they were revered and feared. Burnley, Spurs and Wolves were the top teams then. We had a much admired academy that turned out first team material year after year. As the earlier poster says, money was not the force it is now. Fathers throughout the land wanted their sons with potential to join the academy, not least the Doc who knew a thing or two about football. We played excellent attacking football with a “forward line of five platers, and our wingers were a sight to behold. We continued to be in the spotlight throughout the Sixties, but Our selling policy slowly but surely dismantled our great teams of the decade, starting with Jimmy Mac who crossed Bob Lord and paid the price. Talking of Bob Lord, he was both admired and hated by his peers, threatening to burn BBC cameras if the Corporation tried to enter Turf Moor, and falling out big style with Chairmen of other clubs, particularly Leeds and Newcastle. We had a great manager in Harry Potts and some super talent. I could go on and on waxing lyrical..............
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
We were a big deal...and respected as such.
Most media coverage as ever focused on the usual suspects however, ITV locally had a Man City obsession, but Burnley weren't tarnished with the image of potless flat cap peasantry that they've stuck on us now.
Most media coverage as ever focused on the usual suspects however, ITV locally had a Man City obsession, but Burnley weren't tarnished with the image of potless flat cap peasantry that they've stuck on us now.
Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
Was the change an unintended consequence of Jimmy Hills successful campaign to end the maximum wage rule?cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:45 pmI suspect it was a more level playing field on and off the field. And was less about budgets than it is now.
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
It was a 'more level' situation but we had better players than Arsenal then and any other London based team except for Spurs who in the early part of the decade were our main rivals. Our attendance literally doubled when Spurs came to Turf Moor. There was far less emphasis on 'image' then as wherever you were in the country it was an affordable working person's game. Most of any attendance was made up of home fans, barring derby games of course. Manchester United brought a lot of fans when we played them but I genuinely can't recall seeing any fans of any London team at Turf Moor, even Spurs only had a smattering of support when they came. Then the game kicked off at 3pm and finished by around 4.40pm. There was Sports Report for an hour from 5pm on the radio and that was your lot till the next game. Now sadly, it's 24/7 and none the better for itcolner wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:40 pmThis is probably aimed at the more elderly of our fans,but after watching the match last night and the subsequent knicker wetting on AFTV it came as a huge shock to them that we beat them on their own patch,it got me wondering what their [and the other 'top 6'] fans and media in general thought about us when we did it week after week in the 60s? Were we still little old Burnley then and,as Martin Tyler put it,'after all,theyre only a small town in Lancashire'.Anyone enlighten me?
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
I wasn't alive around then, only started watching Burnley in 1990s...
I'd imagine back then, you just supported your local team and it didn't matter how they played. If you didn't support a local team, you might have admired a particular player and followed a club based around them. The only information was in the local newspapers, radio stations or probably with the National Newspapers - if they played in Division One.
Opinion on tactics and management styles is a relatively new thing. There are YouTube clips you can dig out with Nigel Clough scoffing at analysis on Match of the Day and the likes. There was once talk with Football League Chairmen debating if there was 'too much football'. Then when Sky came along with 'goal-cams', slow-motion replays and Andy Gray using his yellow pen - that's when 'snobbery' started coming in. Now a local team isn't that important. With televised football 'the norm' and the power of social media a club in Europe is just as accessible as Premier League Clubs.
Football is all about stories though, Arsenal losing 4 home games on the bounce, hovering about the relegation zone and Ozil not even in 25 is the story. There's nothing to discuss really regarding Burnley winning, its not that interesting in the grand scheme of things.
I'd imagine back then, you just supported your local team and it didn't matter how they played. If you didn't support a local team, you might have admired a particular player and followed a club based around them. The only information was in the local newspapers, radio stations or probably with the National Newspapers - if they played in Division One.
Opinion on tactics and management styles is a relatively new thing. There are YouTube clips you can dig out with Nigel Clough scoffing at analysis on Match of the Day and the likes. There was once talk with Football League Chairmen debating if there was 'too much football'. Then when Sky came along with 'goal-cams', slow-motion replays and Andy Gray using his yellow pen - that's when 'snobbery' started coming in. Now a local team isn't that important. With televised football 'the norm' and the power of social media a club in Europe is just as accessible as Premier League Clubs.
Football is all about stories though, Arsenal losing 4 home games on the bounce, hovering about the relegation zone and Ozil not even in 25 is the story. There's nothing to discuss really regarding Burnley winning, its not that interesting in the grand scheme of things.
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
Burnley were one of the top clubs throughout the 60s. My memories of match days were very special. A bus from Rawtenstall (one of maybe a dozen ) and a walk to the turf , before queueing to get on a and then pushing through to stand on the longside by a barrier where mates would be already there or would be arriving soon. . Most wore overcoats and scarves, possibly flat caps ( if a bit older) and there was always a strong smell of cigarette and pipe smoke. The crowds were large often towards 30,000. The pitch was often bare in the goal areas and the super hero players were ordinary lads who you would often see in town or the Chinese restuarant at lunchtime. Teams like Man city and Liverpool had spells in division 2 ,(if my memory serves me right) and clubs like Derby County and Notts Forest heald their own with Burnley in Div 1. Ipswich were one of the other top clubs at that time, managed by the great Alf Ramsey. Burnely was known as the club that produced first class players from its youth system. Many of it's first team players had come through the reserves. Yes BFC was seen as a top club.
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
The other change, in the 1980's, was the ending of the arrangement where away sides got a share of the gate receipts ... it doesn't seem that relevant now but it did allow the big City clubs to keep their larger gate money ...
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
Burnley were labelled the 'Big little club', as they had to compete with big city clubs. Or was it the 'Little big club'?
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
Met a Glaswegian on holiday he was a massive Celtic fan went to every game, even in Europe. He told me he travelled down south for the Burnley game and couldn't believe the size of the town, he was expecting a large city due to Burnleys reputation as a big club in the 60s
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
Early 60s Liverpool, Leeds & Chelsea were 2nd division clubs. As said above it wasn’t a big thing back then. CT occasionally puts old results pages up and our attendances are a long way from the worst.
Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
BUrnley were one of the big four sides of the early sixties. Spurs, BUrnley, Wolves and Ipswich.
We were League champions, European Cup representatives and FA Cup finalists. Arsenal ended the 59-60 Season in 13th when BUrnley were league Champions. Arsenal were pretty ordinary in the Sixties, won nothing.
We were League champions, European Cup representatives and FA Cup finalists. Arsenal ended the 59-60 Season in 13th when BUrnley were league Champions. Arsenal were pretty ordinary in the Sixties, won nothing.
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
Nothing has changed really from then in terms of perception or certainly in terms of media coverage.
We had what is now Football Focus with Sam Leitch who spoke about Arsenal, Arsenal and sometimes Arsenal. Spurs were the glory team. I have an old friend who dislikes Spurs so much and it is simply because they got all the publicity and we got very little. I don't think Bob Lord helped to be honest but he's not around now. Look at MOTD2 last night, all about Arsenal.
Martyn Tyler being mentioned above on this thread. What he said about us was respectful and thanks to Graeme Souness just as we were about to get the Arsenal show post match.
We had what is now Football Focus with Sam Leitch who spoke about Arsenal, Arsenal and sometimes Arsenal. Spurs were the glory team. I have an old friend who dislikes Spurs so much and it is simply because they got all the publicity and we got very little. I don't think Bob Lord helped to be honest but he's not around now. Look at MOTD2 last night, all about Arsenal.
Martyn Tyler being mentioned above on this thread. What he said about us was respectful and thanks to Graeme Souness just as we were about to get the Arsenal show post match.
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
Remember going to Turf Moor twice in a week think Tuesday night and Saturday ( one cup possibly replay and one League) when Arsenal had 3 players sent off
Around 1960 , I think, one was their right back who had a bit of a reputation .
Perhaps ct will know the players and year.
Around 1960 , I think, one was their right back who had a bit of a reputation .
Perhaps ct will know the players and year.
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
This era was well before my time, but having started reading some of the BFC related books of the period, we were perceived as a small town club who could really compete with the big boys of the day.
Our youth system was admired by many, and we were known as a club who weren't afraid to blood young talent, and we often sold at least one star a season to balance the books.
As others have stated it was a much more level playing field in those days, and we were one of the big 3/4 for a lot of the early 1960's anyway.
Spurs were the glamour club of that era, and they probably paid the highest wages post the abolishment of the minimum wage, that was a hammer blow to a club of our size, and it became increasingly difficult to maintain our elevated position in the 1st division, hence the downward spiral from the mid 1970''s onwards.
Our youth system was admired by many, and we were known as a club who weren't afraid to blood young talent, and we often sold at least one star a season to balance the books.
As others have stated it was a much more level playing field in those days, and we were one of the big 3/4 for a lot of the early 1960's anyway.
Spurs were the glamour club of that era, and they probably paid the highest wages post the abolishment of the minimum wage, that was a hammer blow to a club of our size, and it became increasingly difficult to maintain our elevated position in the 1st division, hence the downward spiral from the mid 1970''s onwards.
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
Later 60's. The first game was a 3-3 draw in the league cup with Bob Mcnab and Frank McLintock sent off. The following Saturday we won 1-0 in the league and possibly McNab off again but stand corrected on that one. It was on TV later that night.DAVETHEVICAR wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:04 pmRemember going to Turf Moor twice in a week think Tuesday night and Saturday ( one cup possibly replay and one League) when Arsenal had 3 players sent off
Around 1960 , I think, one was their right back who had a bit of a reputation .
Perhaps ct will know the players and year.
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
I'm always confused by this because in one of the games both Arsenal full backs were wearing number 3 - McLintock was definitely sent off and the other two to go were the full backs Bob McNab & Peter Storey.Silkyskills1 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:18 pmLater 60's. The first game was a 3-3 draw in the league cup with Bob Mcnab and Frank McLintock sent off. The following Saturday we won 1-0 in the league and possibly McNab off again but stand corrected on that one. It was on TV later that night.
Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
Great thread. Grew up listening to my Grandad's memories of the 60's. He always ended with "Eeeee they were a good side". If I had a time machine I would go straight to this decade.
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
Massive!! Bigger than Leeds
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
Thanks ct and Silkyskills1,
Peter Storey was the one who I said had a bit of a reputation.
It was “ on the tip of my tongue “ but could not remember his name.
Peter Storey was the one who I said had a bit of a reputation.
It was “ on the tip of my tongue “ but could not remember his name.
Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
Saw my first game in 1961 when we were fined for fielding a weakened team against Chelsea as we had a European Cup tie the following week. 4 4 draw with Jimmy Greaves scoring for Chelsea. Went with my Dad from Littleborough either on the Ribble or bus to Tod then football special from there. In the later 60s Ellen Smith and Yelloway both ran coaches so we had a choice. Was ok unless we were playing Man U and the coaches were shared!!! Burnley were viewed as a team who played good football with a team of home grown players. There was a saying at the time that if you shouted down a pit in the North East a Burnley footballer would emerge. The talent we gleaned from that area was amazing. However, I dont think our media profile was helped by Bob Lord and his views on televised football!
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
Early 60s, Burnley competed with Spurs for the "top 2" spots - but football was a lot more "open." Ipswich had a great manager, Alf Ramsey, and won League 1 - I think straight from promotion. Football was a "working class" spectator sport and a "maximum wage" participation sport. TV was black and white - only 2 channels - mostly evening programmes plus Grandstand on Saturday afternoon - "back to square one" was the radio match commentary. You finished your shift at noon on Saturday and made your way to the match (though I was primary school in early 60s). Jimmy Hill broke the maximum wage and everything started to change. A footballer transferring for £100,000 was something. Late 60s Burnley had the 3rd longest continuous spell in Division 1 (only Arsenal and Everton longer). Burnley won the FA Youth Cup in 1968 and went on to beat Leeds 5-1 (Leeds lost twice that season and won the league). Burnley were acclaimed as the "team of the 70s" - but, it didn't work out like that. Burnley couldn't keep pace with the growing wages and growing transfer values - the "inventory" of signing the most promising youngsters started to decline. We sold Ralph Coates, Martin Dobson, Dave Thomas and more - and John Bond arrived as manager.colner wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:40 pmThis is probably aimed at the more elderly of our fans,but after watching the match last night and the subsequent knicker wetting on AFTV it came as a huge shock to them that we beat them on their own patch,it got me wondering what their [and the other 'top 6'] fans and media in general thought about us when we did it week after week in the 60s? Were we still little old Burnley then and,as Martin Tyler put it,'after all,theyre only a small town in Lancashire'.Anyone enlighten me?
Late 60s there was an letter from a Manchester United (no one called them "ManU" back then) in the Football League magazine (came free with match programme). The writer named Burnley fans as the "quietest fans" and not competing with the "Reds singing." I wrote back, as a 14 year old, and my response was also published. Of course, I've long since forgotten what I wrote - maybe there was an acceptance that ManU brought a lot more fans to TM than there were Burnley fans. Maybe I wrote that we were avoiding "confrontation" - segregation of fans only started later. It was not uncommon for there to be "pushing and shooving" to hold the central line at the back of the Longside in the early 70s. Then somewhere around this time a railings were installed (72ish ?) and were, infamously, ripped out and thrown by Celtic fans in the Anglo-Scottish cup. Burnley were the first English team to win home and away against the "mighty Celtic" - remember, Celtic were the first "home nation" team to win the European Cup. Scotland got to the World Cup in 1978 - England didn't. The decline of Scottish football better illustrates the "power of money" in the game today than the rise of "little old Burnley."
Somewhere in this period there was discussion about the relative size of fan base to the town/city population. Burnley was always top of this table.
I don't think it was a "big shock" that Burnley won at Highbury in 1974. Yes, we'd been relegated and been promoted again (along with QPR). There wasn't the gulf between the top 2 divisions that there is today.
Exciting times.
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
I remember him getting gaol time so googled him. This came up.DAVETHEVICAR wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:41 pmThanks ct and Silkyskills1,
Peter Storey was the one who I said had a bit of a reputation.
It was “ on the tip of my tongue “ but could not remember his name.
after retiring from football he was convicted of various criminal offences; including keeping a brothel, and was jailed for three years for financing a plot to counterfeit gold coins. He has been married four times and has three sons and one daughter; he lives in southern France with his fourth wife.
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
Funnily enough I had a neighbour who was a Celtic fan. Before he moved down to the midlands, he used to go down to Burnley from Glasgow with a group and watch games every now and again.Top Claret wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:57 pmMet a Glaswegian on holiday he was a massive Celtic fan went to every game, even in Europe. He told me he travelled down south for the Burnley game and couldn't believe the size of the town, he was expecting a large city due to Burnleys reputation as a big club in the 60s
He must be around late 40s/50 by now so this was quite recently (not in the 60s or whatever).
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
He was right - they were a good side.
One little story. Back in 2009 when we went to Spurs for the League Cup tie we went in their club shop before the game. A young lad, maybe 18 or so, came up and asked how long it had taken us to get there. He asked because he said he was coming up to Burnley for the second leg. His granddad had told him not to miss it because games between the two clubs were always special. That's how I'm sure we all remember the games between those two great sides.
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
The 60s is why we have fans from all over the place. Good side attracting people then passed down through the family. I’ve met lots of people who’ve told me they used to come and watch Burnley from afar ( well within 40 miles )
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
Jimmy Hill started the campaign to abolish the maximum wage when he took over as Chairman of the PFA in 1957. It was January 1961 before the great Johnny Haynes of Fulham became the first £100 a week player. I doubt if any of our League Champion players achieved anywhere near that with Bob Lord at the helm.
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
My 1st game August 1959, Arsenal weren’t at the races in those days.
Big rivals were Spurs and Wolves with Sheff Wednesday and West Brom also having good teams.
Man Utd getting the sympathy vote post-Munich and local Lancs teams Bolton, Blackburn, Preston and Blackpool also in the frame.
But the Clarets ruled the roost in 1960! FACT.
Big rivals were Spurs and Wolves with Sheff Wednesday and West Brom also having good teams.
Man Utd getting the sympathy vote post-Munich and local Lancs teams Bolton, Blackburn, Preston and Blackpool also in the frame.
But the Clarets ruled the roost in 1960! FACT.
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
I was walking in the cathedral/ castle are of Lincoln this morning in my Burnley coat and a couple a little younger than me asked which team I supported trying to decipher the club badge.
When I said Burnley the man said he supported Burnley when he was a lad and mentioned Pointer, Connelly and Jimmy Mac and said his father took him to watch matches in Sheffield and Nottingham when Burnley were the visitors.
He said he was born in Lincoln and lived here all his life.
This has happened to me several times whilst I have been living here.
When I said Burnley the man said he supported Burnley when he was a lad and mentioned Pointer, Connelly and Jimmy Mac and said his father took him to watch matches in Sheffield and Nottingham when Burnley were the visitors.
He said he was born in Lincoln and lived here all his life.
This has happened to me several times whilst I have been living here.
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
I used to work with a Liverpool fan and his first game was Liverpool v Burnley at Anfield in November 1962. This was during Liverpool’s first season back in the top division after a lengthy absence. He showed me the programme from the game and Bill Shankly had written something along the lines of ‘who would have thought 12 months ago that this season would see Anfield hosting the might of top teams like Burnley’.
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
i once asked a bloke in liverpool for directions to a garage, he said it was near to where he was heading so i offered him a lift.
when he knew i was from burnley he began telling me in great detail about our team from that era. he knew his football that's for sure. Everton were his team, but his admiration for Burnley was immense. I think because we had won the league at the start of the decade and been in a cup final, the town was regarded well in national football circles.
when he knew i was from burnley he began telling me in great detail about our team from that era. he knew his football that's for sure. Everton were his team, but his admiration for Burnley was immense. I think because we had won the league at the start of the decade and been in a cup final, the town was regarded well in national football circles.
Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
It is said in the BL book (I think) that we paid well and was one reason we had to sell players to balance the books but up to 1961 we would have probably had many on the maximum. After the minimum wage was halted BL stated something like " the small Lancashire clubs will not stay in the First Division" or "only one will remain"JohnMac wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:06 pmJimmy Hill started the campaign to abolish the maximum wage when he took over as Chairman of the PFA in 1957. It was January 1961 before the great Johnny Haynes of Fulham became the first £100 a week player. I doubt if any of our League Champion players achieved anywhere near that with Bob Lord at the helm.
He was correct as we saw PNE (relegated 1961), Bolton (1964) Blackburn (1966) Blackpool (1967 and 71) and then us (1971) relegated and by the 71-72 season both Rovers and Bolton were in the Third Division.
It was only when by the standards of those days the rich owners arrived in Davies at Bolton and Walker at Rovers that these two clubs were able for a time to sit at top table. Preston have never made it and Pool for 12 months with Oyston family then perhaps not managing the finances appropriately for a club with parachute payments etc. Our rise owes much to BK and then the other directors he got on the Board as well as a good deal of prudence
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Re: How were BFC perceived in the 60s?
We won 1-2 that day and it included a goal from Ray Pointer described at the time as ' the shot that rocked the Kop'.Claretmisterg wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:46 pmI used to work with a Liverpool fan and his first game was Liverpool v Burnley at Anfield in November 1962. This was during Liverpool’s first season back in the top division after a lengthy absence. He showed me the programme from the game and Bill Shankly had written something along the lines of ‘who would have thought 12 months ago that this season would see Anfield hosting the might of top teams like Burnley’.