This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
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arise_sir_charge
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by arise_sir_charge » Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:03 am
fanzone wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:42 am
I'm surprised it's only 7000 in the whole of Lancashire.
It isn’t, that’s just the list of email addresses they have found.
I can’t imagine that it’s easy to link an email address to an individual either so this sounds like a speculative punt on the polices part.
In respect of police action and sentencing etc, providing an IPTV service to multiple people at a profit is a much more serious offence than being a single subscriber. The references to money laundering etc are evidence of this.
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Belial
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by Belial » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:11 am
dsr wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:32 pm
If it's illegal to stream services that you have stolen yourself, then it's just as illegal to stream services that you have paid someone else to steal for you. You can't get round the morality of it that way.
I get what you're saying, although the services aren't marketed as being illegal, in the same way as if you bought some knock off trainers
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ClaretDiver
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by ClaretDiver » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:14 am
Belial wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:11 am
I get what you're saying, although the services aren't marketed as being illegal, in the same way as if you bought some knock off trainers
Doesn't matter if they are marketed as such, you are well aware that what you are procuring is technically illegal.
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Belial
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by Belial » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:34 am
ClaretDiver wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:14 am
Doesn't matter if they are marketed as such, you are well aware that what you are procuring is technically illegal.
I'm not, because I don't, however I'm not sure how the prosecutors would get round the 'ignorance' of not knowing that some of the material, if streamed, would be done illegally. Signing up to a service of such isn't illegal in itself, and if that person says they just used it in a spare room to watch BBC all day, assuming they've paid for their licence, then it'd be a wasted effort imo
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NottsClaret
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by NottsClaret » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:35 am
These stories come up every few months. Has there ever been one conviction for a subscriber?
Just Google it, almost word for word the same story appears in different regional news. Probably a Sky press release.
Basically, there is no ‘crackdown’.
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Herts Clarets
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by Herts Clarets » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:03 am
I know people who subscribed to a now defunct IPTV provider who i believe were based in Norfolk. They received a cease and desist message on the screen when the service disappeared. One of the issues was that a number had used their email address as their user name so could be identified. One of these people is signed up to another IPTV provider and has provided no email or contact details, so i am not sure how they would identify him.
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ClaretDiver
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by ClaretDiver » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:18 am
Genuine question, if using an IPTV provider is it possible to use a VPN?
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claretonthecoast1882
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by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:20 am
ClaretDiver wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:18 am
Genuine question, if using an IPTV provider is it possible to use a VPN?
Yes, some have had issues recently with the Premier League games being blocked without the use of a VPN
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Ric_C
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by Ric_C » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:31 am
Think it is a bit off to suddenly start clamping down on this. I don't have IPTV or Sky, I just don't think it's worth it in either case.
Yes it's illegal, to use IPTV.
But in the middle of a pandemic, with a lot of people struggling financially and mentally, I'd think think there would be other priorities for the Police to look into.
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Quickenthetempo
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by Quickenthetempo » Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:37 am
CFS wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:11 am
Your mate eh? Expect a knock
Luckily I gave your email address out.
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Sproggy
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by Sproggy » Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:41 am
I hope this doesn't deflect in any way from their efforts to catch speeding motorists.
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kaptin1
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by kaptin1 » Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:01 am
Feels like scare tactics by the police to try and reduce demand for IPTV services at a time when it has probably been rising due to the various lockdowns etc
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AlargeClaret
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by AlargeClaret » Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:07 am
Good to see the old bill tackling the crimes that matter . Report an ongoing burglary,you may get a squad car within an hour or so, report a supposed racial or homophobic slur you’ll likely have helicopters and armed units at your door .
I have an image of almost python-esque superintendents ordering the coppers to “ get typing them letters lads these are the real criminals, and we intend to nick em red handed watching Downton Abbey”
“Frow him to the floor centchorian”
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CFS
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by CFS » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:21 pm
Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:37 am
Luckily I gave your email address out.
See you in 5 years pal.
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mealdeal
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by mealdeal » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:25 pm
In any case that has gone as far as court, its been distributors - think back to moody DVDs off the market, its the guy doing the copying and distribution thats in the dock. Its why sharing copyright content via bit torrent is illegal, because you are all sharing a little bit of the data, much like Napster caught people out in the 90s.
The offence as I understand it would be in denying the copyright holder income and dealt with by way of the civil court for recovery. If you are using IPTV to watch Burnley when they aren't on English television, then who have you stolen income from?
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Quickenthetempo
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by Quickenthetempo » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:06 pm
CFS wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:21 pm
See you in 5 years pal.
Luckily they have Iptv inside the cells for you.
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Quickenthetempo
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by Quickenthetempo » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:08 pm
mealdeal wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:25 pm
In any case that has gone as far as court, its been distributors - think back to moody DVDs off the market, its the guy doing the copying and distribution thats in the dock. Its why sharing copyright content via bit torrent is illegal, because you are all sharing a little bit of the data, much like Napster caught people out in the 90s.
The offence as I understand it would be in denying the copyright holder income and dealt with by way of the civil court for recovery. If you are using IPTV to watch Burnley when they aren't on English television, then who have you stolen income from?
It's a bit like when teenagers pass a joint about. Technically you can get done for supply when you pass it to your mate.
But I don't think anyone has wasted anyone's time by doing so.
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CFS
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by CFS » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:24 pm
Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:06 pm
Luckily they have Iptv inside the cells for you.
She'll stay warm not to worry.
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AndyClaret
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by AndyClaret » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:42 pm
ClaretDiver wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:18 am
Genuine question, if using an IPTV provider is it possible to use a VPN?
The premier League and the isp's, block the signals during games. You need a VPN for the service I use.
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cricketfieldclarets
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by cricketfieldclarets » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:00 pm
Not being funny but cant understand why people are surprised or angry about this.
Ultimately this will be a small part of a much bigger crime.
I know for a fact that the same people who provide this service also sell holidays booked on other peoples credit cards. No doubt all sorts of other 5hit that does affect other people.
We've all streamed and most broke laws. Even unwittingly. And while the people subscribing to the service aren't the real criminals as such, they are ultimately contributing to the people who are.
I've no time for how the police operate in this country. But at the same time, the people running this sort of thing are hardly salt of the earth!
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cricketfieldclarets
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by cricketfieldclarets » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:02 pm
NottsClaret wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:35 am
These stories come up every few months. Has there ever been one conviction for a subscriber?
Just Google it, almost word for word the same story appears in different regional news. Probably a Sky press release.
Basically, there is no ‘crackdown’.
There wont be the subscribers they are targeting. Its pretty obvious its to put the wind up the people who provide the service and hope that the individuals who subscribe either stop or someone drops them in it.
When you are providing it to 7,000 people its not hard to imagine one might slip up. Its how most criminal gangs get caught.
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CombatClaret
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by CombatClaret » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:16 pm
arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:03 am
It isn’t, that’s just the list of email addresses they have found.
I can’t imagine that it’s easy to link an email address to an individual either so this sounds like a speculative punt on the polices part.
They likely also have a payment method too, most people won't be clever enough to pay with a totally anonymous method.
Purchasing something illegal is enough to prosecute, they don't have to watch you smoke the drugs.
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CombatClaret
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by CombatClaret » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:27 pm
Ric_C wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:31 am
But in the middle of a pandemic, with a lot of people struggling financially and mentally, I'd think think there would be other priorities for the Police to look into.
So if a database of 7000 people paying for an illegal service drops into their lap during a warranted raid on a legit criminal they shouldn't the hour or two required to put an email together?
Seems like a no brainer, I expect it might be near impossible for them not to take action given it's part of another investigation.
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Quickenthetempo
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by Quickenthetempo » Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:18 pm
CombatClaret wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:27 pm
So if a database of 7000 people paying for an illegal service drops into their lap during a warranted raid on a legit criminal they shouldn't the hour or two required to put an email together?
Seems like a no brainer, I expect it might be near impossible for them not to take action given it's part of another investigation.
He was arrested in June. It's took 6 months to write an email. I can one finger type with the best of them but that's reaching new levels.
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TVC15
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by TVC15 » Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:44 am
Jeez - some of the comments about the police on this thread are beyond ignorant.
The cuts in resources they have had to deal with in the last few years has had massive impact on the way they work and the areas they now have to deal with.
This year they have worked on the frontline throughout the pandemic...they were pretty much the last frontline service to get PPE and socially distancing with the the vast majority of people they have to deal with every day is impossible.
They rarely got mentioned (or clapped !!) by politicians throughout, had to deal with a massive increase in domestic abuse and mental health cases during the pandemic and have just been told they will be not receiving a pay rise.
In terms of the IPTV crackdown this is one of the many varied investigations that their CID teams will have been looking at for the last few months.
To say it’s taken 6 months to type a few letters is just so ignorant of how the justice system works in this country. Not only is the justice system facing a massive backlog due to the pandemic it was already on its knees before that. To get most cases to a conclusion where you can prosecute takes a long long time - the bit the public see is a small part of it.
We have no idea in this case who was pushing for the prosecution, why it was being investigated etc. It could easily be a third party or a central lobbying type initiative that has ended up political.
To suggest it’s just the Lancashire police off their own back wasting resources “when they should be dealing with real crime” is just so ignorant about how the police operate and the whole system works.
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Swizzlestick
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by Swizzlestick » Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:14 am
Good post TVC. Very amusing how the ‘we’ve gone soft in this country’ crew suddenly have an issue with the police upholding the law when it concerns something directly affecting them.
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ŽižkovClaret
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by ŽižkovClaret » Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:37 pm
The fact they refer to "a service called IPTV" when that's like saying a "a service called Satellite TV" does nothing for their credibility.
Comes across very "yer da" using terms my late Grandad would have used
They actually mean "Illegal streaming services of copyrighted material such as sport and movies" but for some reason they are just targeting your less well informed punter who will panic and stop using it. Fish in a barrel stuff really.
Next they'll go back to targeting disco biscuits and wacky backy.
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claretonthecoast1882
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by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:38 pm
ZizkovClaret wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:37 pm
The fact they refer to "a service called IPTV" when that's like saying a "a service called Satellite TV" does nothing for their credibility.
Comes across very "yer da" using terms my late Grandad would have used
They actually mean "Illegal streaming services of copyrighted material such as sport and movies" but for some reason they are just targeting your less well informed punter who will panic and stop using it. Fish in a barrel stuff really.
Next they'll go back to targeting disco biscuits and wacky backy.
They also used kodi boxes in another version of the same report
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wilks_bfc
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by wilks_bfc » Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:37 pm
Be interesting to see the outcomes when they realise that some of those on their mailing list are in their employment
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IanMcL
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by IanMcL » Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:41 pm
Belial wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:11 am
I get what you're saying, although the services aren't marketed as being illegal, in the same way as if you bought some knock off trainers
So you have heard about Dsr's dodgy trainers!
Got the latest 'Nice' model. 'Just done it' is their strapline.
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PeterWilton
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by PeterWilton » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:59 am
Government in Protecting Corporate Profits Shocker.
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Zlatan
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by Zlatan » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:05 pm