Red card and sub incident last night.

[alboclaret]

Whilst watching, the whole incident of the red card happen last night and the time it took to get to the final decision I thought there might be a flaw in either how var works or how we didnt realise what might be about to happen.

After reff gave a yellow we took off Jay and fetch on barnes as the sub was ready.
Then reff goes over to monitor to look at the incident again. Changes his card to red....

Now there is the problem. Would we have taken jay off if we knew they had 10 men? Maybe we would but in other circumstances it may have been a hindrance.

Should the sub be cancelled or we have the ability to cancel the sub, change the sub? If it had been the other way around and our man sent off and we were subbing someone with our last sub it could be a real problem.
The games dynamic changed after we made sub but should have changed before we made sub if that makes sense

In the end it didnt matter but only a matter of time before it becomes a issue in a game, give it is a fairly rare set of circumstances that led to the whole situation.

Any thoughts ?

[Longsider]

Yes, very good point. I think the team should have the right to change the sub.

[evensteadiereddie]

An interesting point. I would have thought you could change unless play restarts between the original yellow and the subsequent red.

[bobinho]

Great question, i think you should be allowed to cancel or change in the circumstance you describe, especially if there is a delay between the offence and the VAR decision. The sending off changes the whole dynamic of the game.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

They're still struggling to get to grips with VAR, this would only confuse them more.

[dpinsussex]

The club chooses the moment to make the substitution.
Once the player has been allowed on then the substitution is complete and the laws do no allow a reversal under any circumstances.
Worth noting this can only happen if the ball is out of play
If a club decides to make it knowing there is a VAR review going on then that is the clubs risk

[Dark Cloud]

Totally agree with dpinsussex and imo, it would be prudent for a manager to hang on a couple of minutes with the substitution and see what happens in case it affects your decision.

[alboclaret]

The club chooses the moment to make the substitution.
Once the player has been allowed on then the substitution is complete and the laws do no allow a reversal under any circumstances.
Worth noting this can only happen if the ball is out of play
If a club decides to make it knowing there is a VAR review going on then that is the clubs risk

Yes I agree with that.
Maybe we were a little hasty.
A club could be a little to quick to make the sub.
As I was watching I half expected dyche/someone to pull the substitution for a minute or two to re think.
We will never know if they would have done something different I guess but it is something to learn from in my eyes

[alboclaret]

Totally agree with dpinsussex and imo, it would be prudent for a manager to hang on a couple of minutes with the substitution and see what happens in case it affects your decision.

Yeah, as said above I was half expecting that to let the situation play out a little.
I'm sure they picked up on it on the bench once the red was shown.

[Quickenthetempo]

I never thought I would see 'hasty' and 'Dyche making a sub' in the same conversation.

It's been a strange year.

[bfcmik]

I believe you can change your substitution until the moment they step onto the pitch when it becomes a done deal. Even if the board has been raised by the 4th official the substitution isn't complete until your new player crosses the touchline so you could cancel, delay or change either player indicated until that time.

[dsr]

I believe you can change your substitution until the moment they step onto the pitch when it becomes a done deal. Even if the board has been raised by the 4th official the substitution isn't complete until your new player crosses the touchline so you could cancel, delay or change either player indicated until that time.

I think technically the sub isn't complete until not only has the new player come on, but also the old player has gone off. The 4th official shouldn't allow the new player on until the old one has gone off, but it does happen occasionally. I remember once Ian Measham was on the stretcher and they announced the sub (don't know if he came on), but Measham got off the stretcher and carried on playing.

[NewClaret]

It’s a very good point but in that scenario, and in today’s game, I think we’ve got to consider holding the substitution during any controversial point in the game where VAR check may change the outcome.

There was a full on ruckus. I can’t see how any manager on the touch line could see every arm flying about. Far worse would’ve been a Westy or Dwight red when we’d just brought on a like-for-like striker.

Tell the fourth official you’re holding off.

[Dark Cloud]

Spot on there New Claret. What if you made a sub and then found it was one of your guys who was walking!?

[dpinsussex]

I think technically the sub isn't complete until not only has the new player come on, but also the old player has gone off. The 4th official shouldn't allow the new player on until the old one has gone off, but it does happen occasionally. I remember once Ian Measham was on the stretcher and they announced the sub (don't know if he came on), but Measham got off the stretcher and carried on playing.

Correct as above. Substitution is complete when player steps on pitch.
The player can NOT step on the pitch until the departing player has stepped off.

We all see a bit of overlap and is one of the reasons when I am controlling the sub process I step back from the whitewash by at least a yard to ensure the player has left the FOP.

[alboclaret]

Spot on there New Claret. What if you made a sub and then found it was one of your guys who was walking!?

thats what i was trying to say in my OP to but didnt articulate it very well

[dpinsussex]

Spot on there New Claret. What if you made a sub and then found it was one of your guys who was walking!?

The honest answer is tough luck. You should have delayed your substitution until you knew the outcome of the decision.

[keith1879]

The honest answer is tough luck. You should have delayed your substitution until you knew the outcome of the decision.

We should probably have VAR review all substitutions just to make sure no technical infringement has occurred.

(No of course I'm not serious).