French Football in crisis ....

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Clarets4me
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French Football in crisis ....

Post by Clarets4me » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:21 pm

Not seen this on another thread, but it appears that French Football is suffering it's own " ITV Digital " moment .... The Spanish broadcaster " Mediapro " has failed to pay the sums due in their agreement, signed in 2018, which was thought to represent a 60% increase on the previous deal.

There's a fuller explanation on the Guardian's football page, but I cannot post a link ...

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by Bosscat » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:25 pm

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by Rowls » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:26 pm

Yup.

The tv channels due to screen all the games (telefoot) are off air.

Couple this with the banning of crowds and a fair few clubs are experiencing difficulties.

If we’re in a position to be buying players in January France might be a productive marketplace. Could be a good opportunity to pick up a few bargains if we’ve scouted the ligue effectively.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by martin_p » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:32 pm

Rowls wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:26 pm
Yup.

The tv channels due to screen all the games (telefoot) are off air.

Couple this with the banning of crowds and a fair few clubs are experiencing difficulties.

If we’re in a position to be buying players in January France might be a productive marketplace. Could be a good opportunity to pick up a few bargains if we’ve scouted the ligue effectively.
It’ll be a lot more difficult to buy players from France from 1st January.
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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by Rowls » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:49 pm

martin_p wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:32 pm
It’ll be a lot more difficult to buy players from France from 1st January.
No it won't.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by BigF » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:57 pm

Will certain players not require a work permit after January 1 ? Unsure if non-EU players already do need a work permit but I thought I'd read that similar conditions would apply. (It doesn't of course mean that they will not be granted one).

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by aggi » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:00 pm

Rowls wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:49 pm
No it won't.
This lengthy document from the FA suggests differently

https://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefacom- ... -2021.ashx

Basically it's going to be difficult to sign players who don't play regularly for top teams or internationally.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by arise_sir_charge » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:09 pm

That's always been the case with none European players, think Luton Shelton.

The difference is that European players may have to follow same visa criteria post Brexit.

Good thing if you ask me. Means you have to be at a certain level to get a gig.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:10 pm

aggi wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:00 pm
This lengthy document from the FA suggests differently

https://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefacom- ... -2021.ashx

Basically it's going to be difficult to sign players who don't play regularly for top teams or internationally.
Hopefully that's the type of player we would be going for at bargain prices

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by willsclarets » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:23 pm

Interesting. Would that have stopped a Mahrez moving from Le Havre to Leicester, or N'golo Kante moving from Caen to Leicester? I imagine the former at least would be less likely given Le Havre were L2 (I think)

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:31 pm

I have been posting about this on the MMT thread since the early summer - even predicting then it was an itv digital type disaster waiting to happen
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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by martin_p » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:12 pm

Rowls wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:49 pm
No it won't.
I’m sorry, but it’s a fact. As others have pointed out players will have to meet certain criteria to get a work permit.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:43 pm

martin_p wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:12 pm
I’m sorry, but it’s a fact. As others have pointed out players will have to meet certain criteria to get a work permit.
Great, means we won't be having bang average players from abroad turning up and earning silly money.
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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by Rowls » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:16 pm

martin_p wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:12 pm
I’m sorry, but it’s a fact. As others have pointed out players will have to meet certain criteria to get a work permit.
It's not fact. You said, "a lot more difficult" which makes it entirely subjective. I believe the work permits required for a professional footballer earning tens of thousands of pounds, potentially eachw week, will be made easy.

I have my view and you can have your "fact". I'm not going to get into the debate with you given the current board restrictions.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by martin_p » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:23 pm

Rowls wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:16 pm
It's not fact. You said, "a lot more difficult" which makes it entirely subjective. I believe the work permits required for a professional footballer earning tens of thousands of pounds, potentially eachw week, will be made easy.

I have my view and you can have your "fact". I'm not going to get into the debate with you given the current board restrictions.
Well there’s little point anyway as, as ever, you’re arguing based on a ‘belief’ rather than a published fact. It will be more difficult to sign players from Europe to the extent that some big names now playing in the Premier League (e.g. Mahrez) wouldn’t have been allowed to sign for a British club under new rules. Anyway, it’s not likely yo make much difference for us based on our record of signing players from Europe.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by Rowls » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:28 pm

martin_p wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:23 pm
Well there’s little point anyway as, as ever, you’re arguing based on a ‘belief’ rather than a published fact. It will be more difficult to sign players from Europe to the extent that some big names now playing in the Premier League (e.g. Mahrez) wouldn’t have been allowed to sign for a British club under new rules. Anyway, it’s not likely yo make much difference for us based on our record of signing players from Europe.
Rowls wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:16 pm
I have my view and you can have your "fact". I'm not going to get into the debate with you given the current board restrictions.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by arise_sir_charge » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:43 pm

martin_p wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:23 pm
Well there’s little point anyway as, as ever, you’re arguing based on a ‘belief’ rather than a published fact. It will be more difficult to sign players from Europe to the extent that some big names now playing in the Premier League (e.g. Mahrez) wouldn’t have been allowed to sign for a British club under new rules. Anyway, it’s not likely yo make much difference for us based on our record of signing players from Europe.
Not sure about Mahrez, he was already playing for Algeria and will likley have a French passport so will depend what the trade deal is.

Kante wasn't a French international so possible he'd fall foul of the rules if they are the same as those around none Europeans.

However, seeing as we will be able to set our own rules in respect of who we allow in and who we don't, it could be that there is absolutely no change to the current situation in respect of footballers and the authorities accept that anybody with a European passport is eligible to enter. Sport governing bodies do have some sway in this regard.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by aggi » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:55 pm

Rowls wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:16 pm
It's not fact. You said, "a lot more difficult" which makes it entirely subjective. I believe the work permits required for a professional footballer earning tens of thousands of pounds, potentially eachw week, will be made easy.

I have my view and you can have your "fact". I'm not going to get into the debate with you given the current board restrictions.
This is spectacular. There is a document detailing the very specific requirements that will be coming into force, which will unquestionably make signing EU players more difficult, but you'd still prefer to stick your fingers in your ears and go "nah, nah, nah".

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by aggi » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:59 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:43 pm
Not sure about Mahrez, he was already playing for Algeria and will likley have a French passport so will depend what the trade deal is.

Kante wasn't a French international so possible he'd fall foul of the rules if they are the same as those around none Europeans.

However, seeing as we will be able to set our own rules in respect of who we allow in and who we don't, it could be that there is absolutely no change to the current situation in respect of footballers and the authorities accept that anybody with a European passport is eligible to enter. Sport governing bodies do have some sway in this regard.
The rules have already been put in place. Mahrez wouldn't have qualified as he hadn't played enough international matches at that point.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by arise_sir_charge » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:00 pm

aggi wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:55 pm
This is spectacular. There is a document detailing the very specific requirements that will be coming into force, which will unquestionably make signing EU players more difficult, but you'd still prefer to stick your fingers in your ears and go "nah, nah, nah".
He's right to some extent though, their is a chance it could become easier in the long term.

It may be difficult in January, but nothing to say it will in future windows.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by aggi » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:00 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:10 pm
Hopefully that's the type of player we would be going for at bargain prices
You'd hope that would be the type of player but limiting the pool is more likely to push prices up.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:03 pm

seems bizarre how there will be a rule in place to say a (for example) Nurse has to be qualified and earn "x" amount of money to be allowed a work permit, but a footballer who is equally as qualified in their own field who will earn 1000 times more and pay more tax has tighter restrictions...........

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by arise_sir_charge » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:06 pm

aggi wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:59 pm
The rules have already been put in place. Mahrez wouldn't have qualified as he hadn't played enough international matches at that point.
No, the rules haven't been put in place, in effect they were already in place they are just basically being extended to include EU passport holders.

The document you are referencing specifically says ". The criteria will be reviewed in early 2021 in order that revised criteria can be issued in advance of the summer transfer window before the 2021/22 season."


Dependent upon the requirements of a specific sport, the rules can be amended. As an example, the rules around cricket were relaxed to facilitate the 100 competition. I imagine that Premier League football will hold some sway when future rules are being considered.

So, whilst those may be the rules this coming January, they may not be the rules after that when clubs are next allowed to sign players.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by arise_sir_charge » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:09 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:03 pm
seems bizarre how there will be a rule in place to say a (for example) Nurse has to be qualified and earn "x" amount of money to be allowed a work permit, but a footballer who is equally as qualified in their own field who will earn 1000 times more and pay more tax has tighter restrictions...........
Work permit rules are supposedly about protecting workers who are native to the country and ensuring that someone able to do the same job isn't over looked for a foreign national.

However, that doesn't always apply and one of the things the Government are trying to do with points based immigration is ensure that we can be free to attract the people we really need, so if we need 10,000 nurses we make it easier for them come, if we need plumbers or brick layers we make it easy etc etc. If we have a surplus of teachers, we restrict it and so on. So if we need footballers contributing mountains of PAYE, we make it easier and so on.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by Burnley Ace » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:18 pm

We should hopefully be looking at players that wouldn’t have any problem getting a work permit.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by aggi » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:26 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:06 pm
No, the rules haven't been put in place, in effect they were already in place they are just basically being extended to include EU passport holders.

The document you are referencing specifically says ". The criteria will be reviewed in early 2021 in order that revised criteria can be issued in advance of the summer transfer window before the 2021/22 season."


Dependent upon the requirements of a specific sport, the rules can be amended. As an example, the rules around cricket were relaxed to facilitate the 100 competition. I imagine that Premier League football will hold some sway when future rules are being considered.

So, whilst those may be the rules this coming January, they may not be the rules after that when clubs are next allowed to sign players.
The only known is that the rules will be in place for EU passport holders from 1st January when the transfer window opens.

They may or may not be changed at some point in the future but I'd suggest that the fact that the non-EU work permit rules have been kept in place for many years means that they may not be softened that much. It also seems very unlikely that whatever rules are introduced will be as easy as the previous freedom of movement.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by arise_sir_charge » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:29 pm

aggi wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:26 pm
The only known is that the rules will be in place for EU passport holders from 1st January when the transfer window opens.

They may or may not be changed at some point in the future but I'd suggest that the fact that the non-EU work permit rules have been kept in place for many years means that they may not be softened that much. It also seems very unlikely that whatever rules are introduced will be as easy as the previous freedom of movement.
I don't know about this, but it's possible that the European freedom of movement rules impacted the rules for none Europeans also ie we also had to do what the EU wanted as opposed to just what we wanted so they may change also once we leave the EU.

In any event, personally I'm all for rules that determine a certain level has to be achieved before entry is granted.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by claret_in_exile » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:46 pm

Bloody hell - I remember when mentioning the name "Luton Shelton" warranted an instant ban!

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:30 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:09 pm
Work permit rules are supposedly about protecting workers who are native to the country and ensuring that someone able to do the same job isn't over looked for a foreign national.

However, that doesn't always apply and one of the things the Government are trying to do with points based immigration is ensure that we can be free to attract the people we really need, so if we need 10,000 nurses we make it easier for them come, if we need plumbers or brick layers we make it easy etc etc. If we have a surplus of teachers, we restrict it and so on. So if we need footballers contributing mountains of PAYE, we make it easier and so on.
for sure, just seems odd to try and restrict something that has a huge positive contribution to many local economies. They obviously have their own bizarre reasoning though.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by jedi_master » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:39 pm

Luton Shelton! How excited we were!

Sad to see having studied his Wikipedia page that he has got MND. Only 35 years old.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by Father Jack » Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:32 pm

Image

Never knew we’d actually played against him.
At the time we’d had him trial I’d hoped he’d be the next riccardo fuller.
Wasn’t to be.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by aggi » Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:03 am

aggi wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:00 pm
This lengthy document from the FA suggests differently

https://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefacom- ... -2021.ashx

Basically it's going to be difficult to sign players who don't play regularly for top teams or internationally.
I see Allardyce has been complaining that work permits are causing transfer deals to fall through

Image
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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by arise_sir_charge » Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:13 am

aggi wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:03 am
I see Allardyce has been complaining that work permits are causing transfer deals to fall through

Image
That's excellent. If the players don't meet the criteria it's likely they weren't much good in any event.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by Hibsclaret » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:15 pm

I’m not sure Brexit will have much an effect on the brown paper bag approach to transfer dealings....

A lot of noise coming out of Sam in his new multi million pound job....anyone would think his team had just had a couple of poundings at home...
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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by dsr » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:17 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:13 am
That's excellent. If the players don't meet the criteria it's likely they weren't much good in any event.
Not necessarily. the problem with work permit rules is that the clubs with most money will be able to sign dozens of players who meet the criteria, whil;e the clubs like us or further down the leagues won't be able to afford anyone who meets the criteria. Man City will still have a squad full of foreigners and will be able to sign another to play in their reserves, while someone who could become West Brom's star player won't be allowed in.

It would make a lot more sense to let each club sign a number of foreigners regardless of ability - perhaps 3 minimum - but with a limited number of extras (say 5 per club) who meet work permit criteria, for clubs that can afford. That has the double benefit of still restricting foreigners without unduly disadvantaging British players, and of restricting but not removing the Man City type clubs' competitive advantage of having more money.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by Burnley Ace » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:18 pm

They need 15 points for a permit (10 for consideration by a panel). If they can’t get that number then they aren’t good enough.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by Burnley Ace » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:21 pm

dsr wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:17 pm
Not necessarily. the problem with work permit rules is that the clubs with most money will be able to sign dozens of players who meet the criteria, whil;e the clubs like us or further down the leagues won't be able to afford anyone who meets the criteria. Man City will still have a squad full of foreigners and will be able to sign another to play in their reserves, while someone who could become West Brom's star player won't be allowed in.

It would make a lot more sense to let each club sign a number of foreigners regardless of ability - perhaps 3 minimum - but with a limited number of extras (say 5 per club) who meet work permit criteria, for clubs that can afford. That has the double benefit of still restricting foreigners without unduly disadvantaging British players, and of restricting but not removing the Man City type clubs' competitive advantage of having more money.
If they want to sit on the bench at City that’s their decision and if City want to pay them double what we offer, good luck to them. The purpose of work permits is to restrict those that aren’t good enough, not to impose a wage cap based on nationality.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by dibraidio » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:37 pm

aggi wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:59 pm
The rules have already been put in place. Mahrez wouldn't have qualified as he hadn't played enough international matches at that point.
You can add Olivier Giroud to that list. He played his first game for France in November 2011 and signed for Arsenal in June 2012. I'm sure that his international experience wouldn't have been enough to get him a work permit.

Time to forget buying exciting young prospects from abroad then? I wonder how this affects Mancini?

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by aggi » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:12 pm

It's interesting in the context of the "kind of moneyball but definitely not moneyball" that is being talked about with ALK, AI Scout, and Burnley. If you're hoping to make big returns on players then you want to be signing relative unknowns for low prices but obviously this has now become much more difficult.

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Re: French Football in crisis ....

Post by arise_sir_charge » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:21 pm

As we state further up the thread, the rules are for now and can be reviewed.

We are setting these rules so it will be up to our football authorities and our government what is decided.

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