bfcmatt wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:41 pm

Not one.......

Get your point but I just think it has become the first thing on his mind instead of trying to affect play by looking up. As Fretters suggests probably the result of lack of confidence. I was hardy slagging Barnes off, was I?

Barnes is a good player that is horribly out of form much like Wood. Jay Rod and Vydra linking behind him would be much less predictable, long balls to Barnes ( and him falling over) and Wood just aren’t working AT ALL

Stevie Morgan wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:47 pm

I don't think it is Tony. Personally I'd just prefer to watch Jay or vydra then someone who can't trap a bag of cement at the minute, and I think we'd win more games by doing so.

Pathetic

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:59 pm

Has spijed hacked your account

I must not spend as much time on here as you, as that is completely lost on me. But someone questioned my England reference so I quickly Googled a source.

I think it is clear to see all our strikers are desperate to get their seasons going and it is showing in their performances, to pick Barnes out is unfair, all are struggling at the moment. There are times when you know Barnes will suddenly hit a rich vein same with Wood... which is why they remain one and two of Burnley strikers.

welsbyswife wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:53 pm

Not that simple really though is it. You couldn't just drop a playmaker into a midfield 2. Unless he was an all action Bryan Robson type. To accommodate a creative force we would really have to drop one of the strikers and play a different system.

Hopefully the message will get through soon

One of my first names on the team sheet
I would have played him from the off a half time as Chris offered little tonight and Ash was good for his short cameo
Ditto Mat who also needed longer on
But both helped in our hard won draw

Fretters wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:37 pm

I've seen some shocking comments about our Ashley on here and social media lately. There are a lot of short memories because, before his injury problems last season, we were clamouring for him to be in the England squad, such was his strike rate. There was a period where he was bagging at a rate of almost every other game and he scored big goals against big teams too.

He's going through a poor run, much like Wood, yet Wood hasn't had the injury issues that Barnes has. Barnes is a vital member of the squad and he was probably the main fans' favourite before his lay off. Let's get off his back.

Hear hear!............So much complaining on this board.

RalphCoatesComb wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:47 pm

Tonight, he had a job to do and he did it - the Ashley Barnes way. We needed to break up their play and spend some time in their half. He helped to do both. I wasn't sure about Ash when he first came, fouling, play-acting with a poor first touch. Then, he came into his own and started scoring for fun with some memorable goals.

What BFC needs now is a play-maker, someone to find the strikers with that telling pass. Defour anyone?

"poor first touch".........different Ashley Barnes?

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:14 pm

For those banging on about service you need to realise that part of forward play is creating chances for themselves and others and having the pace, movement, skill etc to help get in positions and be a part of interplay that leads to the them getting a scoring opportunity is a key attribute of any good striker

Che Adams and Danny Ings have more assists this season than our whole team have goals so the simplistic notion that midfielders create and strikers score is for people who obviously dont have a clue about playing the game

Not that black and white though is it?
David Silva at City for example made plenty of goals at City that he got neither the goal or assist for

Can someone bump this thread when he is back on form, then we can see who the kneejerkers are please
Can be like the "Dyche out" threads

Damo wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:30 am

Can someone bump this thread when he is back on form, then we can see who the kneejerkers are please
Can be like the "Dyche out" threads

You can also read what's said in every previous topic on Barnes:

search.php?keywords=Barnes&terms=all&au ... mit=Search

Above is a search from titles only with Barnes. Why we need to have another new topic to discuss the same things over and over I don't know.

79 other threads with his name in the title. Not all are exclusively his, but still...

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:36 pm

Pathetic

Whatever. If we were in the ground I'd be supporting him and cheering him on, I just think we have better options at the minute. Heaven forbid people express an opinion on a football message board.

superdimitri wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:49 am

You can also read what's said in every previous topic on Barnes:

search.php?keywords=Barnes&terms=all&au ... mit=Search

Above is a search from titles only with Barnes. Why we need to have another new topic to discuss the same things over and over I don't know..

79 other threads with his name in the title. Not all are exclusively his, but still...

Fair enough, I should have used the search function. My apologies, I'll try harder next time

The way we moan about Grealish throwing himself to the floor but call it ‘Ashley doing what he does to win a foul’ so it’s ok.

He’s been a good servant for us but I think some need to be a little less sensitive about him. He’s become an increasingly cynical player for me, not just out of the form, and frankly, I’m not a fan of it.

Damo wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:28 am

Not that black and white though is it?
David Silva at City for example made plenty of goals at City that he got neither the goal or assist for

No you're never gonna get anywhere near an explanation or example on a messageboard that covers every scenario so my example was just showing to be so simplistic about heaping the blame on the midfield is just wrong

This brings me back to my main point to blame the strikers current form and level on performance on the midfield not supplying the chances when a big part of being a good striker is creating and carving out chances for yourself and making it easier for the midfield to supply you is simplistic rubbish by IMO someone who doesnt have much understanding of the game.

Our whole team is struggling to create an attacking threat at the moment and our main three strikers all looking out of form and a bit one dimensional is not helping

For me the one I am most disappointed with is Jay Rod as Wood and Barnes have never offered much when they are not scoring or helping us defend and hang on to something whereas Jay Rod is the player capable of giving that creative spark and enabling us to get on the front foot as a unit and attack better and create chances

He's been brilliant for us and like pretty much every Clarets fan I love him to bits as over 7? years he's absolutely epitomised what we're all about. I do fear he's not getting any younger and that his bad injury may have taken its toll and that he's tending to overcompensate by becoming even more of a "physical nuisance" than he was before. I also think it's fair to say that we've become much more workmanlike and less creative in midfield and as a team overall and chances are become scarcer and scarcer for all our forwards tbh and as a 20 minute sub, Ash is suffering more that the others.

I’ve not read the whole thread, but last night he was sent on with particular instructions.

I don’t think it’s fair to criticise a player when is doing he’s doing exactly what the manager has told him to do. Which is to cause problems, win free kicks and hold the ball up.

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:35 am

No you're never gonna get anywhere near an explanation or example on a messageboard that covers every scenario so my example was just showing to be so simplistic about heaping the blame on the midfield is just wrong

This brings me back to my main point to blame the strikers current form and level on performance on the midfield not supplying the chances when a big part of being a good striker is creating and carving out chances for yourself and making it easier for the midfield to supply you is simplistic rubbish by IMO someone who doesnt have much understanding of the game.

Our whole team is struggling to create an attacking threat at the moment and our main three strikers all looking out of form and a bit one dimensional is not helping

For me the one I am most disappointed with is Jay Rod as Wood and Barnes have never offered much when they are not scoring or helping us defend and hang on to something whereas Jay Rod is the player capable of giving that creative spark and enabling us to get on the front foot as a unit and attack better and create chances

For me, when we have had difficult times under SD we revert to type and become even more one dimensional, due to lack of confidence and a reluctance to express ourselves. This is understandable and perhaps even desirable - it has certainly worked over the years. I am hoping that now we have regained our solidity and picked up a few points, we will take handbrake off again a bit.

Taffy on the wing wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:02 am

"poor first touch".........different Ashley Barnes?

It was a different Ashley Barnes back then. He improved, dramitically, and scored some wonderful goals. His recovery time from his operation hasn't helped him this year. Like all strikers, he just needs to recover his MoJo

Barnes has become an embarrassment , he’s been a great servant and I’ve loved his attitude but he’s past his prime and really needs to be moved on along with the likes of Lowton, Brady ,JBG et al

Burnleyareback2 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:52 pm

And won us about 5 free set plays.

I want to watch football, people fouling or falling over "winning" free kicks isnt a great watch.
Ashley needs his first priority to be playing the game rather than starting a wrestling match with the opponent as he usually either fouls or is fouled, breaking down any momentum we may have.

Our dead balls haven't been great of late either so it generally means we are defending within seconds of the ball being sent towards Ashley.
How many times were we caught on the back foot last night from the turn over?

We were very fortunate last night, we scraped a point when we deserved nothing.

Finally I moan at all divers and those who like the floor whether that be Barmes, Grealish, Vardy etc, play the game and stop making "winning" things your first thought.

Quite simply I don’t want players to “win free kicks”.

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:44 pm

He played like George Weahs cousin tonight.

TVC15 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:37 pm

Been a great servant for the club and a great signing for Dyche - cannot deny that and he deserves a bit of respect from the fans.

Problem is that football doesn’t work in that way. He’s had lots of praise and support from the fans in the past but you can only go off the here and now. And right now he looks a shadow of the player he used to be.

He’s looked anything but sharp this season and tonight was as bad a 30 minutes I have ever seen him play. I thought Jay was really unlucky to come off so early...for me he was doing better than Wood but we did not need to make the change this early. As soon as we brought Barnes on we lost any momentum and he did nothing other than try and con the referee into giving free kicks...and the passage of play when Martinez made a poor clearance he could have a go at trying to chip the keeper - but he ended up doing I don’t know what and again tried to con the ref when he had lost the ball.

We are struggling up front at the moment - but Wood should have scored a couple of headers at least now and I think Jay is not far off scoring soon either.

I hope Barnes proves us all wrong - but at the moment it looks like a monumental leap from how he is playing.

The chance when Martinez cocked up summed him up. Any striker would have looked to capitalise on that. Barnes looked for a foul outside the box. Baffling.

cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:15 am

The chance when Martinez cocked up summed him up. Any striker would have looked to capitalise on that. Barnes looked for a foul outside the box. Baffling.

He certainly went over without any contact but I'm not sure he went looking for a foul - he just fell over himself which pretty much sums him up of late

cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:15 am

The chance when Martinez cocked up summed him up. Any striker would have looked to capitalise on that. Barnes looked for a foul outside the box. Baffling.

The keeper was still on the edge of the box when he got the ball, he had an open goal to shoot into.

You always want your substitutions to change the game, Barnes followed his instructions perfectly and had an instant impact. He challenged Mings, the first time that had happened in the game and won a string of free kicks which changed the tempo of the game in our favour.

It’s hard to see what fans want in a 10 minute cameo but by any standards his impact was as good as you can expect from a player on his way back from serious injury

If you were wanting a quick 10 minute hat- trick then you may be find the future challenging

Burnleyareback2 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:44 pm

One explanation would be that Lowton & Brady played well so we have to have someone else to moan about.

Just put this on the new striker thread, seems more appropriate here though;

Lots of poor comments on the site about Barnes who is still coming back from a long injury.

I thought he did exactly what Dyche asked of him. He came on and must of won us at least 6 free kicks in the last 20mins. It was clear that we wanted to go for a set piece smash and grab.

A bit of quality on the free kicks and we would be talking about a classic away win.

If we are talking about what could have positively happened it’s also fair to talk about could have negatively happened he’d only been on the pitch a matter of mere minutes & he conceded possession which almost led to a goal I think it was el ghazi maybe grealish blazed wide, so this “classic away win” could have easily been undone by a cheap goal after defending resolutely for the best part of the game, let’s have it both ways!

I don't know why people are piling on Barnes now. He's always been the most "meat and two veg" type player. Accordingly he entriely suits our "style" of play and general approach. He's always been a limited bruiser who we hit it long to. Nothing has changed.

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:35 am

No you're never gonna get anywhere near an explanation or example on a messageboard that covers every scenario so my example was just showing to be so simplistic about heaping the blame on the midfield is just wrong

This brings me back to my main point to blame the strikers current form and level on performance on the midfield not supplying the chances when a big part of being a good striker is creating and carving out chances for yourself and making it easier for the midfield to supply you is simplistic rubbish by IMO someone who doesnt have much understanding of the game.

Our whole team is struggling to create an attacking threat at the moment and our main three strikers all looking out of form and a bit one dimensional is not helping

For me the one I am most disappointed with is Jay Rod as Wood and Barnes have never offered much when they are not scoring or helping us defend and hang on to something whereas Jay Rod is the player capable of giving that creative spark and enabling us to get on the front foot as a unit and attack better and create chances

I understand and agree with what you are saying.
And I'm not laying the blame on the midfield entirely for our current goal drought, but conversely, I don't think it's fair that some people are laying the blame solely at the feet of the strikers. Particularly Ash
The final ball has left a lot to be desired lately. Only Robbie Brady seems to be producing anything like a decent cross (and he was the target of the boo boys until his return to form)

Despite the crap that players get on here, on Facebook and Twitter it's 10x worse. Today I've been reading how Wood is an awful player, even though he bagged double figures in each of his previous seasons.

Clueless doesn't even begin to describe some Burnley fans.

At present, he is suited to substitute coming on with 15-20 minutes to go. He helps take pressure off the team and ensures the oppositions central defenders don't push on. Yesterday he won us a few free kicks near their goal, meaning we could run down the clock and go on the offensive. Despite a few telling crosses from Westwood this year our delivery at free kicks is below last year. Having said that Barnes is well away from being the player terrorising defences at the start of last seasonf

FactualFrank wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:47 am

Despite the crap that players get on here, on Facebook and Twitter it's 10x worse. Today I've been reading how Wood is an awful player, even though he bagged double figures in each of his previous seasons.

Clueless doesn't even begin to describe some Burnley fans.

The same ones who hated David Jones. Absolutely baffling.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:17 am

If we are talking about what could have positively happened it’s also fair to talk about could have negatively happened he’d only been on the pitch a matter of mere minutes & he conceded possession which almost led to a goal I think it was el ghazi maybe grealish blazed wide, so this “classic away win” could have easily been undone by a cheap goal after defending resolutely for the best part of the game, let’s have it both ways!

They had more than 1 attempt during the game to score.

People talking about Barnes like he “ used to be like Messi until he got injured” he’s been a cracking servant and in teams where so few midfielders /wingers regularly score he’s always earnt his corn in goals no doubt about it . Though at 31 he’s past his best and while he still has his uses ,to think we don’t need an upgrade is almost blind idiocy

Barnes is actually quite a good finisher when he gets the chances and I would rather he put himself in those positions than falling over trying to win free kicks which usually come to nothing more than opposition counter attacks or over hit balls anyway

Gunfury wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:11 pm

Barnes is actually quite a good finisher when he gets the chances and I would rather he put himself in those positions than falling over trying to win free kicks which usually come to nothing more than opposition counter attacks or over hit balls anyway

Which was the most annoying thing about the chance he did get.

Damo wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:42 am

I understand and agree with what you are saying.
And I'm not laying the blame on the midfield entirely for our current goal drought, but conversely, I don't think it's fair that some people are laying the blame solely at the feet of the strikers. Particularly Ash
The final ball has left a lot to be desired lately. Only Robbie Brady seems to be producing anything like a decent cross (and he was the target of the boo boys until his return to form)

Agreed and not for the first time we pretty much have the same view but are just coming at it from opposite sides

claptrappers_union wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:50 am

I’ve not read the whole thread, but last night he was sent on with particular instructions.

I don’t think it’s fair to criticise a player when is doing he’s doing exactly what the manager has told him to do. Which is to cause problems, win free kicks and hold the ball up.

Exactly.

Stevie Morgan wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:03 am

Whatever. If we were in the ground I'd be supporting him and cheering him on, I just think we have better options at the minute. Heaven forbid people express an opinion on a football message board.

And you think comments such as "can't trap a bag of cement' is having an opinion?

Burnleyareback2 wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:09 am

They had more than 1 attempt during the game to score.

Exactly, precisely the point they was creating enough already without gifting them chances unnecessarily, If it was vydra or any other substitute I’d say the same, I’m not in the bashing Barnes camp as I think he’s a good player & as a lot to offer still, for now I’d be placing vydra ahead as a third choice & looking for improvement for that to change.

Saying Barnes cannot trap a bag of cement makes you wonder what some people are looking at when they watch a game of football.
He’s been a Burnley player for 7 years now and played more than 200 games for us and technically he has always been one of our better players and his controlling of the ball always been excellent....even now with his confidence low and coming back from a long injury he’s still shown better control of the balls into him than Wood.
What he is struggling with is getting to the pace of games and getting any link up play going. But as a team we are making very few chances which makes our forwards frustrated as they are feeding on scraps and our midfield is not getting up the field enough to support our forwards or run beyond them for flick ons or 1/2s. It means that our forwards are often isolated and outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1. That’s a big reason why none of our forwards have looked good for most of this season....our midfield might get praise for their hard work, tenacity etc and their lack of attacking play and support for our strikers is easily overlooked. Whereas Wood, Barnes etc are judged on their forward play only but only the likes of Messi and Ronaldo are good enough to win games on their own !!

Barnes has struggled with his passing and bringing others into play. It's not helped by Wood struggling at the same time.

We have never been a team that creates much but I think we have created plenty recently, just Wood or JGB has missed them. We had 4 shots on target against Villa, which is probably around average for us.

I hope there is nothing 'pathetic' about what I'm going to post, or that I am going to be accused of not knowing anything about football ( why do some have to post like that ?) but I would like to state my opinion:.
When footballers come back from lengthy injuries it is common for them to take weeks to get back to their normal form. This applies to Barnes and to some extent to JayRod.
We are incredibly fortunate to have a manager who doesn't forget and is incredibly loyal with his players who have performed well for him and the club

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:53 pm

And you think comments such as "can't trap a bag of cement' is having an opinion?

Please. Its an exaggeration to make the point I don't think he's playing well at all. It's a figure of speech, I'm sure you've heard it before. Don't take things so seriously.

Stevie Morgan wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:25 pm

Please. Its an exaggeration to make the point I don't think he's playing well at all. It's a figure of speech, I'm sure you've heard it before. Don't take things so seriously.

Maybe he's not playing well but if you think that sort of abuse is a figure of speech then you are not where I am.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:37 pm

Maybe he's not playing well but if you think that sort of abuse is a figure of speech then you are not where I am.

'Abuse'

Are you joking or what?

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:37 pm

Maybe he's not playing well but if you think that sort of abuse is a figure of speech then you are not where I am.

No, I must not be!