If it's one of those plastic affairs for a budget bottle of wine I hope not.
Josh Brownhill opinions
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
I mean I’m not an analysis expert. But having a quick look at the stats.ksrclaret wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:41 pmI bet Cork's offensive stats were worse than the rest of the midfield last year. I don't remember the same criticism of him though - most people recognised that just wasn't his game and were happy to accept his defensive impact was worthy enough of his inclusion.
So let's see the analysis that shows Cork's play allows for 0.6 more goals per game than Brownhill's play. I'll be happy to concede that Brownhill has to do much better offensively if that analysis is conclusive. I suspect it won't be, but I'll keep an open mind.
Jack Cork averages a goal contribution every 17 games for Burnley in the Prem, Brownhill has no goal contributions in 27 games.
Jack cork averages 1.2 keys passes per game. Brownhill averages 0.6.
Cork averages 21 forward passes a game. Brownhill stats are difficult to find because three different stats websites say different things. But the range is between 13-17 per game.
Cork averages 0.6 dribbles per game, Brownhill 0.4.
Cork is dispossessed 0.2 times per game, Brownhill 0.7
Cork averages 0.3 poor touches a game. Brownhill 0.5
Tried to work out the stats the best I can but the stat sites are all pretty different but trends are the same.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
Josh as been thrown in at the deep end and is a little short of the mark at this level, he contributes next to nothing offensively and is not in the same league as Jack Cork, who cemented an excellent partnership with Westwood over the last few seasons
We really need to be looking for a strapping 6'0 central midfielder who can pick a pass and play box to box, these dwarfs we employ don't have the legs for the modern game
We really need to be looking for a strapping 6'0 central midfielder who can pick a pass and play box to box, these dwarfs we employ don't have the legs for the modern game
Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
He is the intercept and move it on lad.
Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
Ah, more Brownhill bashing.
We rightly laud Mee, Tarks and Pope for keeping clean sheets, but they only do so because of the phenomenal work carried out by the two CM’s in front.
It is absolutely imperative that Westwood and Brownhill are not caught out of position, and our CB’s, that lack pace, are isolated in a 1v1.
And we can’t compare Westwood and Brownhill offensively. Westwood is asked to play a riskier, freer game in his passing. This was confirmed in a recent interview with him. Westwood will get more assists because of how he is asked to play.
Brownhill can’t play like that as well, and needs to complement Westwood with a simpler passing game.
I’m all for different opinions of course, but come on, you have to see what’s in front of you before criticising.
We rightly laud Mee, Tarks and Pope for keeping clean sheets, but they only do so because of the phenomenal work carried out by the two CM’s in front.
It is absolutely imperative that Westwood and Brownhill are not caught out of position, and our CB’s, that lack pace, are isolated in a 1v1.
And we can’t compare Westwood and Brownhill offensively. Westwood is asked to play a riskier, freer game in his passing. This was confirmed in a recent interview with him. Westwood will get more assists because of how he is asked to play.
Brownhill can’t play like that as well, and needs to complement Westwood with a simpler passing game.
I’m all for different opinions of course, but come on, you have to see what’s in front of you before criticising.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
I strongly disagree. Why would Brownhill suddenly be asked to play a different position than say what Cork, Defour, Barton played.TsarBomba wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:57 pmAh, more Brownhill bashing.
We rightly laud Mee, Tarks and Pope for keeping clean sheets, but they only do so because of the phenomenal work carried out by the two CM’s in front.
It is absolutely imperative that Westwood and Brownhill are not caught out of position, and our CB’s, that lack pace, are isolated in a 1v1.
And we can’t compare Westwood and Brownhill offensively. Westwood is asked to play a riskier, freer game in his passing. This was confirmed in a recent interview with him. Westwood will get more assists because of how he is asked to play.
Brownhill can’t play like that as well, and needs to complement Westwood with a simpler passing game.
I’m all for different opinions of course, but come on, you have to see what’s in front of you before criticising.
You obviously like him and rate him, but it shouldn’t get in the way off reality.
He needs to dramatically improve his passing and offensive output.
Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
Some interesting stats there if accurate, fair play for finding those. There is more to Cork's offensive game than I could recall. Worth remembering that Cork has been playing PL football since 2012 though, and Brownhill has played 27 games as you point out there. Experience and know-how counts for a great deal.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:49 pmI mean I’m not an analysis expert. But having a quick look at the stats.
Jack Cork averages a goal contribution every 17 games for Burnley in the Prem, Brownhill has no goal contributions in 27 games.
Jack cork averages 1.2 keys passes per game. Brownhill averages 0.6.
Cork averages 21 forward passes a game. Brownhill stats are difficult to find because three different stats websites say different things. But the range is between 13-17 per game.
Cork averages 0.6 dribbles per game, Brownhill 0.4.
Cork is dispossessed 0.2 times per game, Brownhill 0.7
Cork averages 0.3 poor touches a game. Brownhill 0.5
Tried to work out the stats the best I can but the stat sites are all pretty different but trends are the same.
I firmly believe that Brownhill is contributing a lot in other areas and is doing well for such a newcomer to PL football, but it does appear from your stats that his work on the ball is letting him down. Hopefully that can be fixed because I like his other attributes a lot.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
You might as well **** into the wind, Newcastle is happy being negative about everything.ksrclaret wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:05 pmSome interesting stats there if accurate, fair play for finding those. There is more to Cork's offensive game than I could recall. Worth remembering that Cork has been playing PL football since 2012 though, and Brownhill has played 27 games as you point out there. Experience and know-how counts for a great deal.
I firmly believe that Brownhill is contributing a lot in other areas and is doing well for such a newcomer to PL football, but it does appear from your stats that his work on the ball is letting him down. Hopefully that can be fixed because I like his other attributes a lot.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
I have always said Brownhill is one of the best at his defensive work. Like you said still very new to the league so might develop that side of his game with time. I do also believe that a RW with pace to help stretch teams would allow him more time on the ball.ksrclaret wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:05 pmSome interesting stats there if accurate, fair play for finding those. There is more to Cork's offensive game than I could recall. Worth remembering that Cork has been playing PL football since 2012 though, and Brownhill has played 27 games as you point out there. Experience and know-how counts for a great deal.
I firmly believe that Brownhill is contributing a lot in other areas and is doing well for such a newcomer to PL football, but it does appear from your stats that his work on the ball is letting him down. Hopefully that can be fixed because I like his other attributes a lot.
I think cork has been very underrated at the club. Very rarely gives the ball away and his tempo of passing is very good.
I don’t think we will ever get back to a CM partnership of the quality of Cork and Defour. Arguably one of the best in league at the time.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
Typical Burnley fan. You disagree with them and you are classed as negative.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:07 pmYou might as well **** into the wind, Newcastle is happy being negative about everything.
I am often on both ends of the spectrum. When I think things are bad I highlight them but when I think things are good I praise them.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
You're negative more often than not.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:10 pmTypical Burnley fan. You disagree with them and you are classed as negative.
I am often on both ends of the spectrum. When I think things are bad I highlight them but when I think things are good I praise them.
I'm perfectly capable of holding a sensible debate on here, but I'm not wasting my time with you when you're only focusing on the negatives just a few days after we've beaten the champions at their ground, their first loss their for 4 years and Brownhill was part of that victory.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
I just don’t think it is negative highlighting areas you think players can improve on.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:25 pmYou're negative more often than not.
I'm perfectly capable of holding a sensible debate on here, but I'm not wasting my time with you when you're only focusing on the negatives just a few days after we've beaten the champions at their ground, their first loss their for 4 years and Brownhill was part of that victory.
Plus this conversation was started before the Liverpool game
Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
He's a Claret and an industrious midfielder who the best manager we have ever had rates and asks him to do a certain job that might not be natural to him but he doesn't moan he gets on with it.
Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
You are comparing Brownhill with Cork on primarily offensive stats, which is fair enough, but for balance, have you compared them both defensively?Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:49 pmI mean I’m not an analysis expert. But having a quick look at the stats.
Jack Cork averages a goal contribution every 17 games for Burnley in the Prem, Brownhill has no goal contributions in 27 games.
Jack cork averages 1.2 keys passes per game. Brownhill averages 0.6.
Cork averages 21 forward passes a game. Brownhill stats are difficult to find because three different stats websites say different things. But the range is between 13-17 per game.
Cork averages 0.6 dribbles per game, Brownhill 0.4.
Cork is dispossessed 0.2 times per game, Brownhill 0.7
Cork averages 0.3 poor touches a game. Brownhill 0.5
Tried to work out the stats the best I can but the stat sites are all pretty different but trends are the same.
For a start, Cork wouldn’t be leading on interceptions.
Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
New to this level and still young but he’s doing a fine job for us and will get better with experience
Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
I know you’re not an expert in analytics, but it would be interesting to find out Jack Cork’s stats, just for his first 27 games!Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:49 pmI mean I’m not an analysis expert. But having a quick look at the stats.
Jack Cork averages a goal contribution every 17 games for Burnley in the Prem, Brownhill has no goal contributions in 27 games.
Jack cork averages 1.2 keys passes per game. Brownhill averages 0.6.
Cork averages 21 forward passes a game. Brownhill stats are difficult to find because three different stats websites say different things. But the range is between 13-17 per game.
Cork averages 0.6 dribbles per game, Brownhill 0.4.
Cork is dispossessed 0.2 times per game, Brownhill 0.7
Cork averages 0.3 poor touches a game. Brownhill 0.5
Tried to work out the stats the best I can but the stat sites are all pretty different but trends are the same.
I my opinion tho I think he’s doing ok!
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
The conversation has never been about Brownhills defensive capability.
But if it pleases you.
Cork tackle success - 71%. Brownhill tackle success - 53%
Cork interceptions per game - 1.55 ,Brownhill interceptions per game 2.33
Cork tackles per game - 1.76, Brownhill tackles per game 1.59
Cork clearances per game 1.81, Brownhill clearances 1.44
Cork recoveries per game 5.92, Brownhill recoveries 5.51
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
I mean I could try but that would probably take quite a long time.
Il have a look and see what I can find
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
To be honest it's hard to argue against Newcastleclaret's stats.
What we need to look at is how players currently affect games, otherwise we could still pick Stephen Defour, or Trevor Stephen (if you see where I'm coming from)
What I see in Brownhill is a very good athlete with plenty of time to develop his game...
and I wouldn't begin to criticise Cork who has been (still could be) very good for us.
What we need to look at is how players currently affect games, otherwise we could still pick Stephen Defour, or Trevor Stephen (if you see where I'm coming from)
What I see in Brownhill is a very good athlete with plenty of time to develop his game...
and I wouldn't begin to criticise Cork who has been (still could be) very good for us.
Last edited by boatshed bill on Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
How can the conversation not be about Brownhill’s defensive capability?Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:01 pmThe conversation has never been about Brownhills defensive capability.
But if it pleases you.
Cork tackle success - 71%. Brownhill tackle success - 53%
Cork interceptions per game - 1.55 ,Brownhill interceptions per game 2.33
Cork tackles per game - 1.76, Brownhill tackles per game 1.59
Cork clearances per game 1.81, Brownhill clearances 1.44
Cork recoveries per game 5.92, Brownhill recoveries 5.51
You can’t cherry pick your criticisms and overlook other aspects that don’t fit your argument. That’s not balanced or fair.
The two go hand in hand.
Brownhill isn’t contributing so much going forward because of what he is doing defensively? I don’t understand why you can’t see that.
I respect opinions but it’s just a really odd argument.
You clearly have an axe to grind. You think a Championship player who plays for a club 21st in the league would get in our starting 11 ahead of Brownhill, because you’ve seen him 4 times on tv.
Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
Cork still has to convince me that his legs haven’t gone.
There’s no way he could cover the ground that Josh Brownhill does. And that is such an important part of the way we play.
There’s no way he could cover the ground that Josh Brownhill does. And that is such an important part of the way we play.
Last edited by BurnleyFC on Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
It’s not up for discussion because we all know he can perform defensively, there is nothing to discuss there.TsarBomba wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:22 pmHow can the conversation not be about Brownhill’s defensive capability?
You can’t cherry pick your criticisms and overlook other aspects that don’t fit your argument. That’s not balanced or fair.
The two go hand in hand.
Brownhill isn’t contributing so much going forward because of what he is doing defensively? I don’t understand why you can’t see that.
I respect opinions but it’s just a really odd argument.
You clearly have an axe to grind. You think a Championship player who plays for a club 21st in the league would get in our starting 11 ahead of Brownhill, because you’ve seen him 4 times on tv.
When it comes to Knight we are talking about 19 year old lad that has played the majority of games for a team that finished above Brownhills old team last season.
I think he is a better player because of his attributes. Knight can dribble with ball, score goals, assist goals and do the dirty work.
I have said it on a couple of occasions Knight reminds me of Defour.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
and yet the lad who signed from the Championship for 6 million quid still has 10 more interceptions than Kante, who cost Chelsea something like 30 million, has won the World Cup and earns 150k a weekNewcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:01 pmThe conversation has never been about Brownhills defensive capability.
But if it pleases you.
Cork tackle success - 71%. Brownhill tackle success - 53%
Cork interceptions per game - 1.55 ,Brownhill interceptions per game 2.33
Cork tackles per game - 1.76, Brownhill tackles per game 1.59
Cork clearances per game 1.81, Brownhill clearances 1.44
Cork recoveries per game 5.92, Brownhill recoveries 5.51
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
BTW, We will not be signing Knight in this window.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
If that’s how we judge a player then Westwood is on the par with the 80m pound Havertz at Chelsea.Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:39 pmand yet the lad who signed from the Championship for 6 million quid still has 10 more interceptions than Kante, who cost Chelsea something like 30 million, has won the World Cup and earns 150k a week
Just because you can find one stat where the player has a better stat doesn’t mean he is a top player.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
it's called contextNewcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:44 pmIf that’s how we judge a player then Westwood is on the par with the 80m pound Havertz at Chelsea.
Just because you can find one stat where the player has a better stat doesn’t mean he is a top player.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
Good lad is Brownhill...decent player.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
I do, I think he’d be more likely to play in a United team, than city.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:23 pmYou honestly reckon Brownhill could play for United or city.
I think he’ll be a Milner of his generation.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
The very best players, read the game ahead of time. If a player has high tackle stats at CDM I’d want it offset by the interceptions.Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:39 pmand yet the lad who signed from the Championship for 6 million quid still has 10 more interceptions than Kante, who cost Chelsea something like 30 million, has won the World Cup and earns 150k a week
Think Busquets, how many times do you see him tackle?
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
Cork like Barnes has been a great player for BFC, sadly his time is coming to an end. There’s a place for both in the immediate future, but at the end of the season if they want to play regularly, they need to move on.
Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
Well
We know who Dyche prefers at the moment
Maybe Newcastle should advise SD that the stats prove him wrong
Even if he doesn't play today Brownhill will be starting against Villa
We know who Dyche prefers at the moment
Maybe Newcastle should advise SD that the stats prove him wrong
Even if he doesn't play today Brownhill will be starting against Villa
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
To give some perspective, Brownhill cost Burnley in transfer fees what Kante earns in wages every YEAR at Chelsea.
A terrific player and as per usual criminally underrated by dumb Burnley supporters.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
I’d always pick Brownhill above Hendrick
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
Only dumb Burnley fan is you mate
Brownhill 29 premier league games no goals and no assists, enough said.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
I don’t think there is much between them. Very similar players.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
Not sure how you can call someone dumb. I have put together an argument as to why I don’t think he is particularly great and I have used stats support my theory. Just because you don’t agree doesn’t mean you should result to name calling.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
SD in his Fulham press conference said Brownhill cost us a net £3M after taking off what we got for Wells.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
Jack Cork played 35 minutes with already 1 assist
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
Bargain. A great player.claretandy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:44 pmSD in his Fulham press conference said Brownhill cost us a net £3M after taking off what we got for Wells.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
Most interceptions by a mile in the entire Premier League, against midfielders costing more than 10 times what we paid for Brownhill.Top Claret wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:51 pmOnly dumb Burnley fan is you mate
Brownhill 29 premier league games no goals and no assists, enough said.
Dumb. Enough said.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
Jack Cork is a fantastic footballer but the main thing I would like to contribute is that, hasn't he got really good hair.
Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
Was hoping for more to be honest - you know assists and goals so still needs to improve on that level but a decent signing for the squad
Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that Cork carries the ball forward through midfield better than Brownhill does.ksrclaret wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:23 pmNo, you're right, it's not an excuse to say he is a defensive midfielder - it's an explanation.
We have struggled badly for goals this season. I'd be amazed if any significance difference can be pinned down to Brownhill playing over Cork, though. I'd like to see some analysis of how Cork's play leads to 0.6 more goals per game than Brownhill's play. I highly doubt correlation means causation in this case, but I'll reserve judgement until I see that analysis.
Most of our players would struggle to get into other teams in the league.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
No point discussing topics with people like this, they have there opinion and no matter the facts they won’t even be open to the discussion.
His username is quite fitting.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
loads of times, loads of bookings too - top player though !!!!Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:57 amThe very best players, read the game ahead of time. If a player has high tackle stats at CDM I’d want it offset by the interceptions.
Think Busquets, how many times do you see him tackle?
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
it'll be interesting to see what Dyche does now Cork is back - Cork was excellent today, looks fit and there is no way he will drop Westwood
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
I think corks had a bit of work.Guller Bull wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:45 pmBrownhill has good hair too but given Jack's age I think his hairline is more impressive.
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Re: Josh Brownhill opinions
Do you have any contacts (with the work done) ?- His high line is impeccable.