MotD

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Claret
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MotD

Post by Claret » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:43 pm

Just watching Spurs game and it seems to have become the norm to simply jump backwards into an opponent to get a foul

Zlatan
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Re: MotD

Post by Zlatan » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:47 pm

Claret wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:43 pm
Just watching Spurs game and it seems to have become the norm to simply jump backwards into an opponent to get a foul
Is this Kane again?

RalphCoatesComb
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Re: MotD

Post by RalphCoatesComb » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:54 pm

If I was a Leeds supporter I would want a new keeper in the transfer window. It isn't just today, or what he did to Ben Mee, but he doesn't fill his defence with confidence that he'll make a save.

For Beelzebub, are there any quality keepers available out there?

Tall Paul
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Re: MotD

Post by Tall Paul » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:01 pm

Tom Heaton?

Claret
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Re: MotD

Post by Claret » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:02 pm

Zlatan wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:47 pm
Is this Kane again?
Saw a couple of incidents not involving Kane: the penalty then a foul near the wing.
I have seen those Kane videos the other day where he jumps into players who are themselves jumping to head the ball. The incidents tonight were different in that the opponent was simply trying to play the ball or move towards the ball and found a Spurs player sticking a leg out or moving backwards into him. I don’t like it. Seems to be close to cheating (except when it’s Ashley Barnes)
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Re: MotD

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:06 pm

Just started watching the WBA Arsenal one.

That 3rd Arsenal goal is just shocking, they were lining up to shoot and the WBA defence let them..

Nonayforever
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Re: MotD

Post by Nonayforever » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:12 pm

Only watched the Sheff Utd highlights, but they have given up.

Untinted Glasses
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Re: MotD

Post by Untinted Glasses » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:16 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:06 pm
Just started watching the WBA Arsenal one.

That 3rd Arsenal goal is just shocking, they were lining up to shoot and the WBA defence let them..
:roll:

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Re: MotD

Post by martin_p » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:17 pm

It seems, even this early, there’s only one relegation spot up for grabs.

welsbyswife
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Re: MotD

Post by welsbyswife » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:19 pm

The foul given for the supposed push by the Brighton player was a joke as well. Nowhere near a foul. I'm getting sick of it now. Shout loudly and fall over and the ref blows his whistle as if by instinct. Blatant cheating. VAR could actually sort it out but it has actually gone the other way by consistently confirming that these nothing incidents as free kicks. Something really needs to be done.
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GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: MotD

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:23 pm

Untinted Glasses wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:16 pm
:roll:
Roll your eyes all you like, our defence would've made more of an effort to stop them.

WBA have no fight in them, they can't get the basics down and I think it's 17 goals conceded now in 4 games.

Claret
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Re: MotD

Post by Claret » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:24 pm

welsbyswife wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:19 pm
The foul given for the supposed push by the Brighton player was a joke as well. Nowhere near a foul. I'm getting sick of it now. Shout loudly and fall over and the ref blows his whistle as if by instinct. Blatant cheating. VAR could actually sort it out but it has actually gone the other way by consistently confirming that these nothing incidents as free kicks. Something really needs to be done.
Agreed

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Re: MotD

Post by Untinted Glasses » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:25 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:23 pm
Roll your eyes all you like, our defence would've made more of an effort to stop them.

WBA have no fight in them, they can't get the basics down and I think it's 17 goals conceded now in 4 games.


:roll:

Claret
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Re: MotD

Post by Claret » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:26 pm

Pogba got tripped. A clear penalty. People saying he tripped himself up are talking nonsense.
The same happened to Wood last season (I forget which game) where the slightest of touches knocked his left leg against his right. No penalty was given. Players don’t trip themselves up as a rule.

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Re: MotD

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:59 am

The lead up to Spurs' first goal (penalty) made me laugh so much, and was so satisfying.

Not because it was against Leeds, but because the third rate teams in this league are still doing that p!ssing about at the back.

That sort of shite is one of the reasons which is going to keep us in this league for quite a while.

dsr
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Re: MotD

Post by dsr » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:15 am

welsbyswife wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:19 pm
The foul given for the supposed push by the Brighton player was a joke as well. Nowhere near a foul. I'm getting sick of it now. Shout loudly and fall over and the ref blows his whistle as if by instinct. Blatant cheating. VAR could actually sort it out but it has actually gone the other way by consistently confirming that these nothing incidents as free kicks. Something really needs to be done.
I would agree. The problem is, the FA actually wants fouls to be given for falling over screaming. Did you see the thread where someone posted a long article from the Athletic about how refs are marked? Every decision they make, whehter they blow the whistle or not, is marked for every game. Which can only mean that when a player touches another player and throws himself down, they are marking refs right if they give the free kick and wrong if they don't. The same contact where the player does not throw himself down, the ref is marked wrong for giving a free kick and right for playing on.

It can't be the case that all refs believe all players are totally honest. They can't all be that stupid. If refs are giving free kicks for obvious non-fouls, it's because they are being told to. The action that is needed is that the ref's judging panel, whoever they are, need to be run out of the game asap.

No point asking VAR. Did you see the Brighton penalty? The Brighton man's right foot certainly touched the Wolves man, but what made him fall over was that his left foot (already in the air) somehow ceased to operate and he landed on his face. An obvious dive. The question for VAR should not have been "was he touched", which he was, but "was he tripped", which he wasn't. If they ask VAR the wrong question, they'll get the wrong answer.

My first priority would be to tell the players that cheating must cease, and my second priority would be to tell the refs to go back to the old mindset - only give a free kick when you are sure there was a foul. At present, they are giving free kicks unless they are sure there wasn't a foul.
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elwaclaret
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Re: MotD

Post by elwaclaret » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:20 am

dsr wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:15 am
I would agree. The problem is, the FA actually wants fouls to be given for falling over screaming. Did you see the thread where someone posted a long article from the Athletic about how refs are marked? Every decision they make, whehter they blow the whistle or not, is marked for every game. Which can only mean that when a player touches another player and throws himself down, they are marking refs right if they give the free kick and wrong if they don't. The same contact where the player does not throw himself down, the ref is marked wrong for giving a free kick and right for playing on.

It can't be the case that all refs believe all players are totally honest. They can't all be that stupid. If refs are giving free kicks for obvious non-fouls, it's because they are being told to. The action that is needed is that the ref's judging panel, whoever they are, need to be run out of the game asap.

No point asking VAR. Did you see the Brighton penalty? The Brighton man's right foot certainly touched the Wolves man, but what made him fall over was that his left foot (already in the air) somehow ceased to operate and he landed on his face. An obvious dive. The question for VAR should not have been "was he touched", which he was, but "was he tripped", which he wasn't. If they ask VAR the wrong question, they'll get the wrong answer.

My first priority would be to tell the players that cheating must cease, and my second priority would be to tell the refs to go back to the old mindset - only give a free kick when you are sure there was a foul. At present, they are giving free kicks unless they are sure there wasn't a foul.
I am in complete agreement.

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Re: MotD

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:22 am

welsbyswife wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:19 pm
The foul given for the supposed push by the Brighton player was a joke as well. Nowhere near a foul. I'm getting sick of it now. Shout loudly and fall over and the ref blows his whistle as if by instinct. Blatant cheating. VAR could actually sort it out but it has actually gone the other way by consistently confirming that these nothing incidents as free kicks. Something really needs to be done.
funnily enough I didn't hear Nuno complaining about it after the game.......

CharlieinNewMexico
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Re: MotD

Post by CharlieinNewMexico » Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:42 am

Claret wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:26 pm
Pogba got tripped. A clear penalty. People saying he tripped himself up are talking nonsense.
The same happened to Wood last season (I forget which game) where the slightest of touches knocked his left leg against his right. No penalty was given. Players don’t trip themselves up as a rule.
Players trip themselves up on purpose all the time to make it look like they were fouled

Claret
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Re: MotD

Post by Claret » Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:46 am

CharlieinNewMexico wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:42 am
Players trip themselves up on purpose all the time to make it look like they were fouled
Not in the way we saw Pogba get tripped or Wood last year.

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Re: MotD

Post by Staniola » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:08 pm

CharlieinNewMexico wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:42 am
Players trip themselves up on purpose all the time to make it look like they were fouled
You clearly have never played the game. Yes players cheat, but if you’re moving at pace, the slightest of touches on one leg ensures it hits the other and down you go. Which is exactly what happened to Pogba.

welsbyswife
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Re: MotD

Post by welsbyswife » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:25 pm

dsr wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:15 am
I would agree. The problem is, the FA actually wants fouls to be given for falling over screaming. Did you see the thread where someone posted a long article from the Athletic about how refs are marked? Every decision they make, whehter they blow the whistle or not, is marked for every game. Which can only mean that when a player touches another player and throws himself down, they are marking refs right if they give the free kick and wrong if they don't. The same contact where the player does not throw himself down, the ref is marked wrong for giving a free kick and right for playing on.

It can't be the case that all refs believe all players are totally honest. They can't all be that stupid. If refs are giving free kicks for obvious non-fouls, it's because they are being told to. The action that is needed is that the ref's judging panel, whoever they are, need to be run out of the game asap.

No point asking VAR. Did you see the Brighton penalty? The Brighton man's right foot certainly touched the Wolves man, but what made him fall over was that his left foot (already in the air) somehow ceased to operate and he landed on his face. An obvious dive. The question for VAR should not have been "was he touched", which he was, but "was he tripped", which he wasn't. If they ask VAR the wrong question, they'll get the wrong answer.

My first priority would be to tell the players that cheating must cease, and my second priority would be to tell the refs to go back to the old mindset - only give a free kick when you are sure there was a foul. At present, they are giving free kicks unless they are sure there wasn't a foul.
Missed this response last night. Fully agree. It would be fairly easy to sort out, especially with the technology so we can only assume that refs are being told to officiate in the way that they are.

CharlieinNewMexico
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Re: MotD

Post by CharlieinNewMexico » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:01 pm

Staniola wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:08 pm
You clearly have never played the game. Yes players cheat, but if you’re moving at pace, the slightest of touches on one leg ensures it hits the other and down you go. Which is exactly what happened to Pogba.
I played for 50 years and most of the adult ones at semi pro or “boot money” level.

But apart from that.

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Re: MotD

Post by elwaclaret » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:07 pm

CharlieinNewMexico wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:01 pm
I played for 50 years and most of the adult ones at semi pro or “boot money” level.

But apart from that.
I never had any pace, maybe that is why I didn’t fall over. Must be awful in the supermarket when reaching for beans when the slightest touch causes such reaction.

Dyched
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Re: MotD

Post by Dyched » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:24 pm

There was a incident involving Ashley Barnes vs Sheffield United the other night. He broke into the box got a push/kick (can’t remember exactly what it was now) but he stumbled, managed to get to the ball and put his cross behind for a goal kick. He showed the contact made by the Sheffield United player wasn’t strong enough to make him go down, but it was strong enough to not allow him to get a proper cross in. That’s a foul. It was illegal contact that stopped Barnes from getting to and crossing the ball properly. Barnes showed by staying on his feet that if he had gone down it would be a dive yet his chances of winning the penalty would have been far greater.

That is way players dive. Contact might not be enough to make them go down, but it knocks them off their stride. All it takes is a slight clip of the ankles, push in the back etc to get out of that stride and the chances of then getting to and making proper contact with the ball decreases. Free kicks are rarely if ever given for such instances, so players know full well if they do go down they’ll get the freekick/penalty. That to me isn’t diving at all. It’s only highlighting the fact that contact was made.

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Re: MotD

Post by TVC15 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:44 pm

Dyched wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:24 pm
There was a incident involving Ashley Barnes vs Sheffield United the other night. He broke into the box got a push/kick (can’t remember exactly what it was now) but he stumbled, managed to get to the ball and put his cross behind for a goal kick. He showed the contact made by the Sheffield United player wasn’t strong enough to make him go down, but it was strong enough to not allow him to get a proper cross in. That’s a foul. It was illegal contact that stopped Barnes from getting to and crossing the ball properly. Barnes showed by staying on his feet that if he had gone down it would be a dive yet his chances of winning the penalty would have been far greater.

That is way players dive. Contact might not be enough to make them go down, but it knocks them off their stride. All it takes is a slight clip of the ankles, push in the back etc to get out of that stride and the chances of then getting to and making proper contact with the ball decreases. Free kicks are rarely if ever given for such instances, so players know full well if they do go down they’ll get the freekick/penalty. That to me isn’t diving at all. It’s only highlighting the fact that contact was made.
That all feels a bit over complicated to me.
Either the contact makes you fall over naturally or it doesn’t - really is as simple as that.

If a player falls over deliberately when he has been contacted then 100% it is diving - it’s not ‘highlighting’ anything other than that they are diving. You are trying to deceive an official into thinking the contact has been stronger than it actually has. That’s not even debatable - it’s pure fact.

I understand why players do it and I agree to an extent that if they stay on their feet then it’s very likely to not lead to a penalty - but I’m not sure whether it should anyway. Contact happens all the time and it’s not always a foul so why should the slightest touch in the box be if it is not impeding the player enough for him to fall over naturally ? But even if you believe contact like this in the area should be a penalty then this is something that should be changed by referees not by players diving and cheating.
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Claret
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Re: MotD

Post by Claret » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:45 pm

Dyched wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:24 pm
There was a incident involving Ashley Barnes vs Sheffield United the other night. He broke into the box got a push/kick (can’t remember exactly what it was now) but he stumbled, managed to get to the ball and put his cross behind for a goal kick. He showed the contact made by the Sheffield United player wasn’t strong enough to make him go down, but it was strong enough to not allow him to get a proper cross in. That’s a foul. It was illegal contact that stopped Barnes from getting to and crossing the ball properly. Barnes showed by staying on his feet that if he had gone down it would be a dive yet his chances of winning the penalty would have been far greater.

That is way players dive. Contact might not be enough to make them go down, but it knocks them off their stride. All it takes is a slight clip of the ankles, push in the back etc to get out of that stride and the chances of then getting to and making proper contact with the ball decreases. Free kicks are rarely if ever given for such instances, so players know full well if they do go down they’ll get the freekick/penalty. That to me isn’t diving at all. It’s only highlighting the fact that contact was made.
I disagree. If you fall when you could have stayed on your feet then it’s a dive.

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