Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

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Mala591
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Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Mala591 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:48 am

Defensive shape, tackling and blocking shots are all excellent and are the result of intensive work on the training field.

But what about improving our attacking skills, are we improving or stagnating?

Movement off the ball, powerful and accurate shots on target, clever variations of tactics for corners and free kicks, pin point crosses, composure around the opponent’s box, high tempo one-two passing, flick-on heading from the near post to other attacking positions, ball to the by-line pulled back to the penalty spot area etc etc

The list of technical attacking tactics is almost endless.

Imo we should spend more of our training time on technical ATTACKING skills. Maybe something that Mr Pace should take a look at?

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by woody » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:54 am

Yes because I'm sure Sean's never thought of this. What on Gods earth would any of this have to do with Mr Pace ? Also i think our goals from set pieces (corners mainly) are up there with the best over the last couple years.
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Re: Are our players improving their technical attacking skills?

Post by Zlatan » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:03 pm

it was something I noted whilst watching us against Utd, when our players pass the ball around its rarely passed with urgency and a fast ball, yet the Utd players were passing with velocity and able to receive it and control it really well. This is where we need to work on IMO - the very basic to understand yet difficult to master art of passing the ball at speed...

...of course we are currently limited with the technical ability within the squad, and that I where I hope we'll improve over time. I saw a tweet that stated Spurs are us with Kane and Son up front instead of Wood and Barnes - I think there is something in that. Defensively we are superb, its when we transition to attack that we need to punch out quickly and attack with speed which we dont have right now.

Currently we play a long pass and play percentages for the second ball, hence why our fitness is crucial. Then when we win the second ball we currently work it wide and hope our crosses meet the big men in the middle. We're actually not far off what Leicester were doing when they won the title, they kept it tight and then broke with blistering speed using Vardy and Mahrez which was lethal for the opposition - but we don't have a Vardy (I think Vydra was hoped to be that option when we brought him in) or a Mahrez.

With the right additions we could be the team who are awesome defensively, and lethal on the counter attack. What we cant do is expect to change to an attacking force overnight, that would mean certain relegation for us. Any progress needs to build on our excellent defensive qualities, and make subtle changes to our transition to attack and have the ability to mix it up - we have become a little stale in our approach which is likely as a result of confidence in our front players.

[all of the above is my own opinion, by all means disagree, but please dont ridicule or be offensive in replies, thanks]
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by warksclaret » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:12 pm

I have noticed that if we get within 40 yards of the oppostion goal from a wide position we never hesitate in hurling it in to the vicinity of Wood/Barnes. However the realy strong sides in particular, combine lets say the RB/RW/a midfielder and or striker, working it to the byline and whipping something low across the 6 yard box. I think maybe only Sheff Utd are similar to us

Its either going to get cleared that way(maybe for a corner) or one of our team can get a foot to it. Closest we have got, and it happened when McNeil burst on the scene-Taylor & McNeil would work it to the bye-line and NMcNeil would whip something to the near post. I think Wood scored a number of goals this way. Lets hope the coaches are reading this0

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:14 pm

I love how people who don't work in the game are so much better than professional coaches
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Re: Are our players improving their technical attacking skills?

Post by Right_winger » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:17 pm

Zlatan wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:03 pm
it was something I noted whilst watching us against Utd, when our players pass the ball around its rarely passed with urgency and a fast ball, yet the Utd players were passing with velocity and able to receive it and control it really well. This is where we need to work on IMO - the very basic to understand yet difficult to master art of passing the ball at speed...

...of course we are currently limited with the technical ability within the squad, and that I where I hope we'll improve over time. I saw a tweet that stated Spurs are us with Kane and Son up front instead of Wood and Barnes - I think there is something in that. Defensively we are superb, its when we transition to attack that we need to punch out quickly and attack with speed which we dont have right now.

Currently we play a long pass and play percentages for the second ball, hence why our fitness is crucial. Then when we win the second ball we currently work it wide and hope our crosses meet the big men in the middle. We're actually not far off what Leicester were doing when they won the title, they kept it tight and then broke with blistering speed using Vardy and Mahrez which was lethal for the opposition - but we don't have a Vardy (I think Vydra was hoped to be that option when we brought him in) or a Mahrez.

With the right additions we could be the team who are awesome defensively, and lethal on the counter attack. What we cant do is expect to change to an attacking force overnight, that would mean certain relegation for us. Any progress needs to build on our excellent defensive qualities, and make subtle changes to our transition to attack and have the ability to mix it up - we have become a little stale in our approach which is likely as a result of confidence in our front players.

[all of the above is my own opinion, by all means disagree, but please dont ridicule or be offensive in replies, thanks]
I get your comparison with Leicester’s title season except we don’t counter at all very well. In fact we tend to slowly pass the ball along the back
Line for either Pope or Mee to hoof it aimlessly up the field. It more often than not comes straight back at us.

But you are right in the sense that we play for set pieces, second phase balls and looping crosses in for the big men in the middle.

Some teams it works against others it doesn’t. We are hopeless against teams who are technical and move the ball at pace like Man City. I think we are better against Liverpool because they are much more direct and easier for our defence to read/challenge.
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:51 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:14 pm
I love how people who don't work in the game are so much better than professional coaches
Anybody with one working eye can see the OP has a valid point.
Dwight and Charlie work well down the left but the right hand side is all off the cuff and then lump a crap cross into god knows where. Our midfield never get beyond the front two. It would help if we passed to a teammate.
All things that can be sorted at Barnfield.

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Rileybobs » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:54 pm

Alan Pace should definitely get himself down to Gawthorpe to give some pointers about football training routines to Dyche and his coaching staff.
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:55 pm

Statistically our midfields attacking output this season has decreased exponentially. I am not even just referring to goals and assists but the fundamentals of attacking play such as dribbles, Successful crosses, passing accuracy, key passes.

Not really sure why it has happened but very interesting to note

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by TheFamilyCat » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:59 pm

Mala591 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:48 am
Defensive shape, tackling and blocking shots are all excellent and are the result of intensive work on the training field.

But what about improving our attacking skills, are we improving or stagnating?

Movement off the ball, powerful and accurate shots on target, clever variations of tactics for corners and free kicks, pin point crosses, composure around the opponent’s box, high tempo one-two passing, flick-on heading from the near post to other attacking positions, ball to the by-line pulled back to the penalty spot area etc etc

The list of technical attacking tactics is almost endless.

Imo we should spend more of our training time on technical ATTACKING skills. Maybe something that Mr Pace should take a look at?
That well known former centre forward Alan 'Pacey' Pace? Get him down the Barnfield with his trackie on. That'll sort em out.
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Rowls » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:10 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:55 pm
Statistically our midfields attacking output this season has decreased exponentially. I am not even just referring to goals and assists but the fundamentals of attacking play such as dribbles, Successful crosses, passing accuracy, key passes.

Not really sure why it has happened but very interesting to note
I think the dreadful start resulted in a focus on fundamentals to stop the rot. It worked but it's also hampered our creativity.

Perhaps the current squad aren't capable of achieving a more pleasing style of play without it affecting results again? Who knows, that's a judgment call.

We've all seen us attempting free-flowing, exciting attacking football in this league under Coyle and, to a lesser extent, Laws. We leaked goals at the back.

As grim as it is at times I'd much rather see us grinding out points under Dyche than getting relegated in style.
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by SalisburyClaret » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:13 pm

No excuse for poor technical skills - you just practice them until you get better, then practice some more until you get good, then practice some more until you become excellent. They have all day every day to do it

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by pushpinpussy » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:24 pm

I’m sure it will go down very well with Dyche if Mr Pace turned up for training showing him how it should be done. Jesus wept
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:29 pm

Mala591 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:48 am
Defensive shape, tackling and blocking shots are all excellent and are the result of intensive work on the training field.

But what about improving our attacking skills, are we improving or stagnating?

Movement off the ball, powerful and accurate shots on target, clever variations of tactics for corners and free kicks, pin point crosses, composure around the opponent’s box, high tempo one-two passing, flick-on heading from the near post to other attacking positions, ball to the by-line pulled back to the penalty spot area etc etc

The list of technical attacking tactics is almost endless.

Imo we should spend more of our training time on technical ATTACKING skills. Maybe something that Mr Pace should take a look at?
I thought Alan Pace was chairman but I think we should pass this on to Sean Dyche, I think he'll be delighted to know that someone on the message board is more able to determine training methods for the team he's had in the Premier League for the last five years.

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:40 pm

Dyche's reaction when Pace turns up to take over training
QVNIMTE0Mzg5NzAx.jpg
QVNIMTE0Mzg5NzAx.jpg (26.88 KiB) Viewed 1101 times
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by RMutt » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:50 pm

I’m sure what Mala591 meant was for Mr Pace to have a discussion with Mr Dyche about possible new recruits to help us to play more attractive attacking football. If it could be done and we do play less hit it and hope and we can still get results then I’m sure we will all be happier. As for Mala591 not being a coaching expert, I’m sure that 90% of respondees on 90% of the threads are probably not qualified to give an informed opinion. It doesn’t mean we can’t have one or express it though does it?

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:53 pm

RMutt wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:50 pm
I’m sure what Mala591 meant was for Mr Pace to have a discussion with Mr Dyche about possible new recruits to help us to play more attractive attacking football. If it could be done and we do play less hit it and hope and we can still get results then I’m sure we will all be happier. As for Mala591 not being a coaching expert, I’m sure that 90% of respondees on 90% of the threads are probably not qualified to give an informed opinion. It doesn’t mean we can’t have one or express it though does it?
This is true but the OP is saying it is something Mr Pace should look at.

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:56 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:53 pm
This is true but the OP is saying it is something Mr Pace should look at.
To be fair he’s quite clearly talking about recruitment.

mala is exactly expecting Alan Pace to turn up at the training pitch and take a session on shooting.
Last edited by Newcastleclaret93 on Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:56 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:53 pm
This is true but the OP is saying it is something Mr Pace should look at.
To be fair he’s quite clearly talking about recruitment.

mala isnt exactly expecting Alan Pace to turn up at the training pitch and take a session on shooting.
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by TheFamilyCat » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:02 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:56 pm
To be fair he’s quite clearly talking about recruitment.

mala isnt exactly expecting Alan Pace to turn up at the training pitch and take a session on shooting.
No he isn't, he's talking about training.

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Zlatan » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:10 pm

It’s all too easy to mock isn’t it.

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:10 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:56 pm
To be fair he’s quite clearly talking about recruitment.

mala isnt exactly expecting Alan Pace to turn up at the training pitch and take a session on shooting.
He isn't, read it again starting with how he compliments the defensive training work we do. No mention of recruitment, not the first time this week you have read something that isn't there.

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Rileybobs » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:14 pm

Zlatan wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:10 pm
It’s all too easy to mock isn’t it.
With some of the stuff that gets posted on here, yes it is.

I don't see anything nasty or offensive, but if someone suggests that the chairman could have a word with Dyche about improving his training methods then what do you expect.
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Spijed » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:15 pm

RMutt wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:50 pm
I’m sure what Mala591 meant was for Mr Pace to have a discussion with Mr Dyche about possible new recruits to help us to play more attractive attacking football. If it could be done and we do play less hit it and hope and we can still get results then I’m sure we will all be happier. As for Mala591 not being a coaching expert, I’m sure that 90% of respondees on 90% of the threads are probably not qualified to give an informed opinion. It doesn’t mean we can’t have one or express it though does it?
At this stage of the season the word 'Attractive' should never be mentioned.

If we try to alter our game plan to be more entertaining there is nothing more certain than relegation.

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by ksrclaret » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:18 pm

Peak UTC, this thread. Great job people.
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by RMutt » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:22 pm

Spijed wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:15 pm
At this stage of the season the word 'Attractive' should never be mentioned.

If we try to alter our game plan to be more entertaining there is nothing more certain than relegation.
There was a caveat in there about still getting results. The almost accidental introduction of McNeil did just what I’m talking about. I don’t see why it couldn’t happen again with a couple of wisely sourced additions.

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by middleton claret » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:38 pm

If Alan Pace turns up at Barnfield he will be the only one with any pace at the club, & that's what we are crying out for. Obvious to a blind man, one dimensional hoof ball, easy to defend & no counter attack option.

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by kentonclaret » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:41 pm

The training ground may well be called Barnfield but on current form our strikers and midfield players can't hit a barn door. :x

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Rumbletonk » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:44 pm

What a bunch of little babies there are on here. Clearly the OP didn't mean Pace was going to storm on to the training pitch and start barking orders. If I was Pace I'd be asking Dyche how and what he's doing or going to do to improve our attacking stats. That is standard practice of an employer/employee relationship. Dyche will fully expect questions like that to be asked of him and will no doubt be able to answer.
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Zlatan » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:47 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:14 pm
With some of the stuff that gets posted on here, yes it is.

I don't see anything nasty or offensive, but if someone suggests that the chairman could have a word with Dyche about improving his training methods then what do you expect.
you may not see anything nasty or offensive, I do - I see posts in this thread ridiculing a discussion point which makes a fair attempt to start a football related discussion.

The OP typed a few paragraphs that prompted me to understand what they were trying to convey however many posters appear to have picked up on the last sentence where they have made a suggestion regarding Mr Pace taking a look at things, and to be fair they did use the word "maybe" which kind of inferred that it was just a suggestion.

Of course it could mean that Mr Pace turns up at Barnfield and puts the players through their paces, but I personally read it as something that Mr Pace may want to address in terms of incomings and something that Mr Pace can affect, which is what I believe the OP had meant by that last sentence.

Perhaps if Mala591 could find the time to clarify what they meant it may help, in the meantime perhaps offer a viewpoint on the main part of the OP and not the final sentence.
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Rumbletonk » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:54 pm

woody wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:54 am
Yes because I'm sure Sean's never thought of this. What on Gods earth would any of this have to do with Mr Pace ? Also i think our goals from set pieces (corners mainly) are up there with the best over the last couple years.


Pace owns the club so it has everything to do with him. He, rightly, should be worried about our poor attacking performances and should be questioning Dyche and working with him to help improve things

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Rileybobs » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:00 pm

Zlatan wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:47 pm
you may not see anything nasty or offensive, I do - I see posts in this thread ridiculing a discussion point which makes a fair attempt to start a football related discussion.

The OP typed a few paragraphs that prompted me to understand what they were trying to convey however many posters appear to have picked up on the last sentence where they have made a suggestion regarding Mr Pace taking a look at things, and to be fair they did use the word "maybe" which kind of inferred that it was just a suggestion.

Of course it could mean that Mr Pace turns up at Barnfield and puts the players through their paces, but I personally read it as something that Mr Pace may want to address in terms of incomings and something that Mr Pace can affect, which is what I believe the OP had meant by that last sentence.

Perhaps if Mala591 could find the time to clarify what they meant it may help, in the meantime perhaps offer a viewpoint on the main part of the OP and not the final sentence.
'Imo we should spend more of our training time on technical ATTACKING skills. Maybe something that Mr Pace should take a look at?'

That's pretty clear that the OP thinks that Pace should be looking at changing Dyche's training methods, which to be quite frank he's not qualified to do.

And don't be so sensitive, there' absolutely nothing nasty or offensive in any of the replies.

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by The Enclosure » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:08 pm

Think Dyche answered a question about our strikers last week. He believes that goal scoring is mainly instictive and providing our strikers get into goal scoring positions in the box then the goals will come.

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Zlatan » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:14 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:00 pm
'Imo we should spend more of our training time on technical ATTACKING skills. Maybe something that Mr Pace should take a look at?'

That's pretty clear that the OP thinks that Pace should be looking at changing Dyche's training methods, which to be quite frank he's not qualified to do.

And don't be so sensitive, there' absolutely nothing nasty or offensive in any of the replies.
We'll agree to disagree then, that's fine. However whether there is any malice or nastiness in any of the replies depends upon your perspective and as someone who has been on the receiving end of some dogs abuse in the past because people refused to understand that my viewpoint is as valid as anyone elses I think I'll decide if I deem it to be nasty or not IMO.

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Jakubclaret » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:32 pm

What dyche does & has been doing for a long time is a tried & tested formula in achieving results, but it’s equally fair to acknowledge the possibility may exist that the brand of football on offer isn’t palatable to paces liking despite being effective. I think it’s more than likely that people jumping to hasty conclusions without any sound logical basis, the current well documented feedback pertaining to SD as been nothing but complimentary & respectful.
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Spijed » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:50 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:32 pm
What dyche does & has been doing for a long time is a tried & tested formula in achieving results, but it’s equally fair to acknowledge the possibility may exist that the brand of football on offer isn’t palatable to paces liking despite being effective.
If he wants it changing then unfortunately we are guaranteed to be relegated.

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:51 pm

Spijed wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:50 pm
If he wants it changing then unfortunately we are guaranteed to be relegated.
What makes you think changing tactics will result in relegation? Could you not argue that our current tactics are the reason we are in a relegation battle?

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:56 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:51 pm
What makes you think changing tactics will result in relegation? Could you not argue that our current tactics are the reason we are in a relegation battle?
I'd say the injury crisis we had was the biggest contributing factor.
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Jakubclaret » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:03 pm

Spijed wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:50 pm
If he wants it changing then unfortunately we are guaranteed to be relegated.
Not necessarily, the job remit as always been preserve league status if he wants something more he could be prepared to roll the dice & bankroll some flair players & just let Sean throw the shackles off.

Danieljwaterhouse
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:03 pm

huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:51 pm
Anybody with one working eye can see the OP has a valid point.
Dwight and Charlie work well down the left but the right hand side is all off the cuff and then lump a crap cross into god knows where. Our midfield never get beyond the front two. It would help if we passed to a teammate.
All things that can be sorted at Barnfield.
The op has a valid view point from his perspective.

We are not a technically gifted squad, for that to be true across the squad you can add on another zero to the total cost.

We play a pragmatic system, that is designed to be effective against 75% of the other premier league teams. 25% being the top four/six which are always free hits for us.

If we’re effective in those 75% and win or secure draws, we stay in the league.

We’ve recruited players who are effective in our system. We have limited their exposure and drilled into them good physical, tactical and mental patterns.

Change the system or manner in which we play, with this squad, we would lose 5-0 every week to every team we come up against. This is another reason why we struggle against lower league opponents, we simply don’t have the mental elasticity in the group to change our shape.


The only players who could play in a system that is more expansive are:

Tarks (questionable)
McNeill
Brownhill (who I think will go to the very top)
Vydra
J Rod

From those only:

McNeill, J Rod and Brownhill are technically able players.

Ole, at United recognised that he doesn’t have the players to play in the manner in which fans want them too. He’s playing a low block, with a counter system. He realises that’s pragmatic and effective for the squad he has. Over time he can change that with player recruitment. We will do the same, but it will be over years and multiple windows. Not something you do at Barnfield over a month or two!
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Danieljwaterhouse » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:06 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:13 pm
No excuse for poor technical skills - you just practice them until you get better, then practice some more until you get good, then practice some more until you become excellent. They have all day every day to do it
Really? That’s not true, not even in the slightest.

You can track technical ability back to childhood. Put an incorrect picture/model in there and you’re already done for.

You can improve, but you cannot reset the base of a persons free movement, scanning, balance, gait, and so on.

Spijed
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Spijed » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:09 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:51 pm
What makes you think changing tactics will result in relegation? Could you not argue that our current tactics are the reason we are in a relegation battle?
I'd say Ben Mee injured for those games at the start of the season is purely the reason we are near the bottom.

Our tactics are the reason why we got into Europe, for example.

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:12 pm

Spijed wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:09 pm
I'd say Ben Mee injured for those games at the start of the season is purely the reason we are near the bottom.

Our tactics are the reason why we got into Europe, for example.
Not arguing that the tactics work for Burnley. But you said if we change tactics we will be relegated.

Just don’t believe that is necessarily true. There are plenty of teams that are defensively strong and play decent football. Southampton, West Ham, Palace as an example.

Stayingup
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Stayingup » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:14 pm

The likes of Manchester United and the top clubs who are mentioned in some posts, have better technical players than we do. That's why the likes of Pogba cost 90 million. We have to make do with what we have and we have done it very well. Our most technically gifted player is an ex United player released by them.

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by boatshed bill » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:21 pm

The OP could shorten the title to "Are our players improving"

Some are, but clearly some have already peaked.
Can you teach an old dog a new trick?

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:24 pm

Stayingup wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:14 pm
The likes of Manchester United and the top clubs who are mentioned in some posts, have better technical players than we do. That's why the likes of Pogba cost 90 million. We have to make do with what we have and we have done it very well. Our most technically gifted player is an ex United player released by them.
It is also a myth that you can’t buy technically gifted players for a decent price. Leeds average starting eleven cost 38 million this season, I would argue all of them are better technically bar possibly McNeil.

We don’t target these types of players because they won’t fit how we want to play.

Again not a bad thing at all, we have been very successful using our system,
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Rileybobs » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:28 pm

It's worth bearing in mind also that it is much cheaper to recruit defensive players in general. Goalkeepers and defenders are cheaper than attacking players. It's arguably also a lot easier to train a lower-league player to be disciplined, organised and positionally good than it is to train them to be creative. A sizeable proportion of goals in the Premier League are scored from set pieces, and a lot of goals are scored by capitalising on a defensive mistake.

For all those reasons it is no surprise that we have found the most efficient way to stay in this division is by playing the way we do, which granted isn't always easy on the eye. When our forwards are hitting the back of the net it's extremely effective and has led to a lot of success. When they're not finding the net it's a tough watch.

Whilst I would like to see us play a more expansive game, the balance is very hard to find - as with our financial constraints it is easier for us to match our opposition by playing defensively than offensively. A lot of the talk of Vydra improving us against Man Utd completely ignored the fact that we were throwing bodies forward into attack, which we hadn't done throughout the entire second half up until going behind. And it was quite telling that in that period Martial got the clearest goalscoring opportunity of the match by some distance, only to be thwarted by Pope.
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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:29 pm

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:03 pm
Change the system or manner in which we play, with this squad, we would lose 5-0 every week to every team we come up against.
I agree with almost all of your post except the manner. The system works to perfection but it’s the basics, when we have the ball, that drive me mad. Making players run back to receive a pass when they have 20yds of grass in front of them, not finding a teammate 10yds away, players running into space and the guy with the ball not knowing(total lack of communication)!etc.,
It feels like so much emphasise is put on the defensive shape that no time at all is spent on the forwards. I know that won’t be true but that is the impression you come away with.

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by Jakubclaret » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:30 pm

Spijed wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:09 pm
I'd say Ben Mee injured for those games at the start of the season is purely the reason we are near the bottom.

Our tactics are the reason why we got into Europe, for example.
Part of the reason other reasons as well.

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Re: Are our players improving their technical ATTACKING skills?

Post by boatshed bill » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:39 pm

I always thought that our football under Coyle was a breath of fresh air, lots of pass and move...

look where that ended up.
Our formula is keeping us in the PL, but we are predictable, and often terrible to watch.
I doubt we can really do much better with what we have.

I do agree though that the forwards should practice their art instead of whatever they are doing in training currently. ;)

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