West Ham v Burnley - Match Thread

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:10 pm

Dyche out. He’s taken us as far as he can.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:10 pm

jurek wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:58 pm
Vydra did more than Wood or Barnes

What did he do?

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:11 pm

Re Dirty Leeds I actually was banking on a home win now we're behind Brighton again

scamander · Post by **scamander** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:11 pm

I'm rapidly moving past the sympathy for Woods bit where things just aren't going right. It's bordering on masochistic to keep him on the pitch. Today he missed several touches and looks completely out of it. Take him off for a while. Please. I think anyone who has played upfront at any level has gone through that period where you couldn't hit the floor if you fell over and every touch has a bobble to it.

I see Pieters is getting some stick by virtue of not being Taylor. He's a backup, if we are relying on him being the same as Taylor then that's not his fault.

We all want to see Burnley do well, and in previous seasons we've all had a wobble where the results haven't gone well and then it clicks in. The problem is that this season feels different. I could be wrong and hope I am but we seem like a team screaming out for fewer 30 plus players who have had injuries and/or coming back from them and a couple of fresh players or at least a slightly different approach.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:12 pm

box_of_frogs wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:10 pm
Dyche out. He’s taken us as far as he can.

You might catch a few with that one

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:13 pm

LTUK89 wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:06 pm
Dwight McNeil has no guile or skill on the ball? Am I watching the same bloke?

Hes been nowhere near the players he was last season. Partly because the team around him is performing different to last season. For all his non stop effort, and twists and turns, who missed a chance that he set up.........
It doesn't matter how fancy you look, if there is no end product, and Dwight hasn't produced this season.

I'm still a massive fan, and he'll go on to be a star, but you still have to earn your corn.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:15 pm

Tall Paul wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:10 pm
What did he do?

Dragged their defenders around a bit, created space for others. Dawson and Ogbonna could have played with a deckchair and cigar while Barnes and Wood were on.

diamondpocket · Post by **diamondpocket** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:15 pm

Yeah, it's time to ruffle some feathers. Liverpool is the perfect game. We'll probably get beat but it gives us a chance to have a practice run for more important games ahead. Villa, if the game goes ahead, would be ideal as they'll have missed a lot of training and games.
Start with the team that finished and give them a few weeks chance. McNeil drifting inside or driving down the left, Brownhill getting further forward, Westy playmaker picking up loose balls starting attacks, full backs pushing on, etc. We pushed them back and looked a lot more dangerous than the 1st half long ball rubbish.

Safron · Post by **Safron** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:15 pm

We struggled to beat mkd with a near full strength team, so I not confident of beating anyone at this level any time soon

Longsidebogs · Post by **Longsidebogs** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:16 pm

You can say what you like, but we absolutely need to start scoring goals somehow. That’s what football is about. We are defending well enough (although we could have been buried today). I fear we will be very, very close points wise to being relegated this time. I suspect the new owners may well be weighing up whether Sean is the best man to take the club forward, and would not be at all surprised if they pot him if things don’t improve very soon.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:17 pm

jrgbfc wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:15 pm
Dragged their defenders around a bit, created space for others. Dawson and Ogbonna could have played with a deckchair and cigar while Barnes and Wood were on.

Did he though? How many chances did that create?

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:20 pm

Sean said it was a good performance. Mad.

Zlatan · Post by **Zlatan** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:22 pm

Tall Paul wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:10 pm
What did he do?

He created opportunities, thats what he did. Wood and Barnes are so one dimensional other teams have us sussed.

We really need to switch it up a bit - Jay and Vydra can accept the long ball and hold up just like Wood and Barnes, but the other attributes both Jay and Vydra have mean that we can attack in a different way - on the ground.

Trouble for us is we have Liverpool next, and I don’t think think playing Jay and Vydra will help, we actually just need to be right at the back and hope for set plays from the long balls, so Wood’n Barnes again...

ClaretMov · Post by **ClaretMov** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:23 pm

If he thinks that was a good performance it's time to go Mr Dyche

nyclaret · Post by **nyclaret** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:23 pm

“We had more possession which is hard to do away in the Premier League.”

cockneyclaret · Post by **cockneyclaret** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:23 pm

bfcjg wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:20 pm
Sean said it was a good performance. Mad.

And theres the problem, that was a game we could have easily won if we had any attack minded players.
West ham were average at best, we were just appalling

Zlatan · Post by **Zlatan** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:24 pm

cockneyclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:23 pm
And theres the problem, that was a game we could have easily won if we had any attack minded players.
West ham were average at best, we were just appalling

Can’t disagree with that

Steddyman · Post by **Steddyman** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:24 pm

He also said we had strong forwards and the stats more than backed that up. 5 shots on goals in 3 games.

Boss Hogg · Post by **Boss Hogg** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:25 pm

bfcjg wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:20 pm
Sean said it was a good performance. Mad.

Thought he might.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:26 pm

I hope Mr Pace reads him the riot act on Monday. Totally unacceptable selection, performance, and post-match comments.

nyclaret · Post by **nyclaret** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:27 pm

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:26 pm
I hope Mr Pace reads him the riot act on Monday. Totally unacceptable selection, performance, and post-match comments.

I can’t imagine Mr Pace questioning Dyche to be honest. Not to his face anyway

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:29 pm

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:10 pm
It’s will be if Fulham beat Chelsea that would put the icing on the cake translating into a poor set of results.

Not really, there's plenty of games left. Sometimes results will go against us, its normal.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:31 pm

Love how the "Dyche Out" nutters have turned up again. It's been a tough few weeks for them.

clansman · Post by **clansman** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:31 pm

Sean has to be questioned. That was awful.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:32 pm

Zlatan wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:22 pm
He created opportunities, thats what he did.

He didn't though. We didn't have any more opportunities after he came on.than we did before.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:34 pm

Tall Paul wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:32 pm
He didn't though. We didn't have any more opportunities after he came on.than we did before.

Let’s be honest your just a Yawn Dyche nut hugger and go with his view regardless of reality.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:35 pm

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:26 pm
I hope Mr Pace reads him the riot act on Monday. Totally unacceptable selection, performance, and post-match comments.

Pace would be a massive idiot and not for a minute do I think this to be the case. We are suffering from underinvestment, not poor management. Dyche is good, but he can't preform miracles all the time.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:37 pm

Billy Balfour wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:35 pm
If he did he would be a massive idiot and not for a minute do I think this to be the case. We are suffering from underinvestment, not poor management. Dyche is good, but he can't preform miracles all the time.

As unlikely as it is, I don't regard being able to drop the two woefully out of form strikers to be a "miracle". I don't regard being able to at least *try* to pass and move with the football to be a "miracle". I think it's just basic management and instruction.

NickBFC · Post by **NickBFC** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:41 pm

Billy Balfour wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:35 pm
Pace would be a massive idiot and not for a minute do I think this to be the case. We are suffering from underinvestment, not poor management. Dyche is good, but he can't preform miracles all the time.

We are certainly suffering from a lack of investment and several diabolical transfer windows. Dyche however needs to make the most of what he has at his disposal and there are strong arguments he isn't doing that. Wood and Barnes in particular have been given plenty of chances and are both woefully out of form. It's no surprise with Vydra, Jay and Dwight on we start to look far more threatening. I do feel for Dyche at times but he isn't helping himself at the moment with his stubborn team selection and overly rigid tactics.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:41 pm

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:37 pm
As unlikely as it is, I don't regard being able to drop the two woefully out of form strikers to be a "miracle". I don't regard being able to at least *try* to pass and move with the football to be a "miracle". I think it's just basic management and instruction.

Dyche is scared to make decisions. Always an excuse or something to hide behind. It’s about time he manned up and took the bull
By the horns and becomes accountable.

Can’t keep blaming the board, the recruitment team, the market. Others seem to manage just fine.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:41 pm

Right_winger wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:34 pm
Let’s be honest your just a Yawn Dyche nut hugger and go with his view regardless of reality.

Whatever you say.

The reality is that we didn't create anything before Vydra came on either, but let's not pretend that we're suddenly going to score a load of goals if Vydra gets a run of games.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:41 pm

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:37 pm
As unlikely as it is, I don't regard being able to drop the two woefully out of form strikers to be a "miracle". I don't regard being able to at least *try* to pass and move with the football to be a "miracle". I think it's just basic management and instruction.

Been managing long, have you ?

Hedontplayforyou · Post by **Hedontplayforyou** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:42 pm

It’s strange because when teams are 1-0 with 5-10 mins to play they usually start to play more route one, we start to play more football rather than hoofing it up !

I’m a big fan of Dyche but today needed McNeil from the get go, and probably one of the two strikers changing.

I agree with other posters that the lack of investment in the playing staff has also been a big factor. Desperate for some more creativity and that pace which we still don’t have

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:42 pm

Tall Paul wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:41 pm
Whatever you say.

The reality is that we didn't create anything before Vydra came on either, but let's not pretend that we're suddenly going to score a load of goals if Vydra gets a run of games.

We are more threatening when Vydra plays, but he never get a chance. He’s never had a run of games for us never.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:43 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:41 pm
Been managinglong, have you ?

I've been managing in general for about 10 years, but I must confess I haven't been managing footballers.

How long have you been managing footballers?

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:44 pm

Right_winger wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:41 pm
Dyche is scared to make decisions. Always an excuse or something to hide behind. It’s about time he manned up and took the bull
By the horns and becomes accountable.

Can’t keep blaming the board, the recruitment team, the market. Others seem to manage just fine.

Which others ?

The teams below us, the teams just above us or the teams that have been relegated to the Championship over the past five seasons ?

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:46 pm

Right_winger wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:42 pm
We are more threatening when Vydra plays, but he never get a chance. He’s never had a run of games for us never.

Because he's not good enough.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:46 pm

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:43 pm
I've been managing in general for about 10 years, but I must confess I haven't been managing footballers.

How long have you been managing footballers?

I've not but, then again, I'm neither crass nor stupid enough to come on here blaming our current problems on Dyche and his apparent ignorance of the basics of football.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:48 pm

Tall Paul wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:46 pm
Because he's not good enough.

What does that say about Barnes and Wood then. Because he is better than them

ewanrob · Post by **ewanrob** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:48 pm

Dyche's initial reaction

I am disappointed in the result but I thought the performance was a good one

Finding the details in the front third is the key.

I have total belief in our centre forwards. We have to give them slightly better service at times.

If we keep operating like that then we will win games.

Beggars belief, that he insists on waiting for luck to change...change the bloody starting line up for christ sake. Front two aren't bad players, but right now they are a million miles off.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:51 pm

Right_winger wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:48 pm
What does that say about Barnes and Wood then. Because he is better than them

Where's the evidence that he's better?

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:51 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:46 pm
I've not but, then again, I'm neither crass nor stupid enough to come on here blaming our current problems on Dyche and his apparent ignorance of the basics of football.

Ah, I see. So you've no management experience in football. That's a coincidence because I don't either. I do have my opinions on it though like all fans do.

I don't want to get into your name calling game at this point, so would you mind if we left that aside and just talked football politely?

1. Do you think we should start with Wood and Barnes again next game?
2. Do you think our football could be made more pleasing to the eye?

Sunny Cornwall · Post by **Sunny Cornwall** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:56 pm

Pace says he wants us to be more appealing to a worldwide audience. He's going to have to spend a lot of money to do that.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:57 pm

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:51 pm
Ah, I see. So you've no management experience in football. That's a coincidence because I don't either. I do have my opinions on it though like all fans do.

I don't want to get into your name calling game at this point, so would you mind if we left that aside and just talked football politely?

1. Do you think we should start with Wood and Barnes again next game?
2. Do you think our football could be made more pleasing to the eye?

What name calling ? A silly thing to say. I'm sorry but your presumption that Dyche has no idea is ludicrous.

Anyway, moving on.

1. Yes.
2. It could be but with a squad as limited as ours, the framework would not permit it. An emphasis on attack would see us get hit on the break and battered severely. As it is, as we've seen with the last two games, we're always in with a shout.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:00 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:57 pm
What name calling ? A silly thing to say.

Anyway, moving on.

1. Yes.
2. It could be but with a squad as limited as ours, the framework would not permit it. An emphasis on attack would see us get hit on the brak and battered severely. As it is, as we've seen with the last two games, we're always in with a shout.

Name calling - because you called me crass and stupid. Not nice, we're trying to make this board a friendlier place to visit.

But thanks for your giving your opinions there, Eddie. Much appreciated.

Jimmymaccer · Post by **Jimmymaccer** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:03 pm

I actually think the pundits got it right on Amazon....not scathing about us and saying we have enough to stay up.....but they pointed out where the problems are.......midfield too deep, too far from the strikers......And opposition defence taking a high line because we have no pace or attacking instinct down the flanks.

Not that I know anything, other than having a subbuteo set and they’re never consistent!

Enjoy the rest of the weekend folks and stay safe!

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:06 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:46 pm
I've not but, then again, I'm neither crass nor stupid enough to come on here blaming our current problems on Dyche and his apparent ignorance of the basics of football.

Dyche is responsible for coaching these players thus shouldering some of the blame attached to the tactics, it was only last week we were getting told that he had to put more pressure on the forwards & yet again nobody’s hit the onion bag, so who else get the flack the groundsman or tea lady, we could blame David moyes for countering our tactics I guess that’s constructive.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:07 pm

Oh dear, ksr.

Yes, you're right, suggesting that you know much more about football and football management than Sean Dyche is not at all crass or stupid.

No worries, be happy.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:12 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:07 pm
Oh dear, ksr.

Yes, you're right, suggesting that you know much more about football and football management than Sean Dyche is not at all crass or stupid.

No worries, be happy.

Even if I had suggested such a thing, I still think we can leave out the name calling. It's that sort of bickering that we both know gets threads closed down these days.

snapcrackleandpop · Post by **snapcrackleandpop** » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:30 pm

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:12 pm
Even if I had suggested such a thing, I still think we can leave out the name calling. It's that sort of bickering that we both know gets threads closed down these days.

Leave it KSR you’re pi33ing in the wind.