Times article this morning

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nyclaret
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Times article this morning

Post by nyclaret » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:23 am

Fantastic article by Alyson Rudd on the prospect of a Super League with a reference to our win at Anfield.

You can have too much of a good thing – the Super League would be an overdose of occasion

Isn’t it ironic? With apologies to Alanis Morissette:
It’s like rain on your wedding day,
It’s a Super League,
When Burnley proved how to play.

On the day The Times revealed founder members of a proposed European Super League would be offered up to £310 million each to sign up, Burnley ended Liverpool’s incredible undefeated home run in the league, inflicting a first loss at Anfield since April 2017.

Burnley are not being invited to the Super League party, not being regarded as one of England’s “big six”. Nope, the idea behind the plan is that fans are more interested in how Liverpool fare against Bayern Munich or Real Madrid or Chelsea.

Liverpool would still be allowed to face Burnley or Brighton & Hove Albion or Southampton in the league, but would probably end up treating it like a third-round FA Cup tie against Port Vale, as a sideshow, an irritant. Would there even be an appetite for endless glamour games? The idea that every fixture could feel like a Champions League final is a bit like every day being Christmas Day. The novelty would soon wear thin.

My aunt worked on the assembly line in a chocolate factory. It was her job to place the coffee creams and hazelnut swirls into the correct places in the confectionary box. The perk of the role was that she could eat as many of the chocolates as she liked. It was a genius ploy by the manufacturer, for no one “stole” any chocolates after their first week, so sick were they of endless fondants.

A Super League would soon turn into a sugar overdose. The joy of the Champions League is that it complements the domestic season rather than dominating it, and gives us a window into other football cultures and developments without having to devote hours to every game in the Bundesliga or Serie A.

We love to compare English clubs to their European rivals and often conclude that defeat of, or indeed by, a Premier League club is proof of how demanding, competitive and relentless our football is.

We nod and smirk that at least we have a league where every game is tough. We may not always win the Champions League but heck, what we do have is the best league in the world.

Isn’t that ironic? The Super League would seek to turn the English top flight into something nondescript, where even if Southampton and Aston Villa and Burnley can find a way to defeat Liverpool, it would fail to pack the punch their victories have in this campaign because Super Liverpool would have their eyes on a bigger catch which offers them a share of a £2.66 billion prize fund, having already benefited from a slice of a £3.1 billion infrastructure grant.

The whole proposal is nauseatingly entitled, like those scenes in Downton Abbey where the aristocrats are forced to contemplate that war may change social values but plough on, hiring servants to polish their silver, regardless. The pandemic has changed values, underlined both the importance and vulnerability of local clubs and yet the powerful and rich ones keep on pushing for a franchise-style model that kills the spirit of the game’s competitiveness and romance. And where would the snarls, the chippiness, the boisterousness come from?

Elite-level football tends to be on the gracious side. After Bayern defeated Paris Saint-Germain in last season’s Champions League final, the German club’s players fell over themselves to console Neymar. This is not something Ashley Barnes, scorer of the winning goal at Anfield on Thursday, would be likely to do, not least because Burnley would not consider Neymar to be someone in need of pity. There was a good deal of snippiness at Anfield, epitomised by the glares exchanged between Jürgen Klopp and Sean Dyche.

Burnley’s refusal to “know their place” was at the heart of their win; Liverpool’s struggle to come to terms with knowing their place as title holders was part of why they lost. A Super League would take away such psychological struggles and bestow the status of royalty on the big clubs. What Burnley’s victory illustrated was how football as a republic is full of jeopardy and upsets, grim determination and self-doubt. The sanitised, if more glamorous, version is not so appetising.
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Re: Times article this morning

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:27 am

Good piece.

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by jackmiggins » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:29 am

The article is absolutely spot on. Furthermore, if there is to be a super league, I would hope the participants would not be eligible to form part of our leagues.
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Re: Times article this morning

Post by evensteadiereddie » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:33 am

An excellent article.
I've got a more succinct version : **** 'em !

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by jrgbfc » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:38 am

Haven't FIFA come out and said any players joining a breakaway league would be barred from playing international football?

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by Stayingup » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:41 am

Thanks for that ny it is good and it is interesting.

Sanitized football. She's right. Would not appeal to traditional fans like me at all. But some fans these days my goodness. Childish imbeciles. One post I read the day after our famous win, (following our famous draw at Anfield last year I might add) said 'I detest Burnley they stand for everything I hate'. Well what sort of football fan is that? Burnley a founder memeber of the football league with a great tradition and back from almost dead.
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Re: Times article this morning

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:42 am

There was an Alyson Rudd article referred to and heavily criticised on here recently and rightly so although I can’t recall the detail now. It surprised me because she’s a good writer. She’s got this spot on though.

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by Stayingup » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:43 am

jrgbfc wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:38 am
Haven't FIFA come out and said any players joining a breakaway league would be barred from playing international football?
And should be barredfrom playing in the domestic leagues also. Well maybe!!!

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by Burnley Ace » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:46 am

jrgbfc wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:38 am
Haven't FIFA come out and said any players joining a breakaway league would be barred from playing international football?
Hopefully that would be extended to the clubs from playing in any sanctioned competition. There will be legal challenges as the clubs might try to set up “new” club identity so Liverpool FC play in the Prem but a new Liverpool EuroFC play in this new league. Anyone playing in the new league should be banned from returning (probably restraint of trade but)

Turn it into Kerry Packer II

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by jrgbfc » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:47 am

Stayingup wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:43 am
And should be barredfrom playing in the domestic leagues also. Well maybe!!!
Would love to see a Premier League without City, United, Liverpool etc! Nearly every team would feel like they had a genuine chance of getting into Europe, rather than half the league just being happy to finish 17th which seems to be the case now.
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Re: Times article this morning

Post by nyclaret » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:50 am

Stayingup wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:41 am
Thanks for that ny it is good and it is interesting.

Sanitized football. She's right. Would not appeal to traditional fans like me at all. But some fans these days my goodness. Childish imbeciles. One post I read the day after our famous win, (following our famous draw at Anfield last year I might add) said 'I detest Burnley they stand for everything I hate'. Well what sort of football fan is that? Burnley a founder memeber of the football league with a great tradition and back from almost dead.
Twitter these days is just full of childish anonymous fan accounts presumably run by teenagers who appear to have some of the worst football opinions.
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Re: Times article this morning

Post by Boss Hogg » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:50 am

Good article. I don’t watch any group ‘Champions’ League games and I wouldn’t watch any Super League games. I couldn’t give one whether PSG beat Munich or Chelsea. It will kill our game as we know it but satisfy TV viewers overseas.i think football needs to tread carefully particularly on the back of Coronavirus.

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by taio » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:54 am

Been talk of an imminent European Super League for at least 20 years. The beauty of the Premier League, apart from the cash, is beating Liverpool, Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal etc.

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by GaryClaret » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:04 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:42 am
There was an Alyson Rudd article referred to and heavily criticised on here recently and rightly so although I can’t recall the detail now. It surprised me because she’s a good writer. She’s got this spot on though.
It was to do with the takeover and Dyche will have to stop whinging about financial constraints, our style of play may have to change, Stockholm syndrome etc.

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by RalphCoatesComb » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:15 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:42 am
There was an Alyson Rudd article referred to and heavily criticised on here recently and rightly so although I can’t recall the detail now. It surprised me because she’s a good writer. She’s got this spot on though.
She wanted to write a piece for the prawn sandwich brigade rather than for real people. Much better when she tones down her analogies, mixed metaphors and similes.

She has got this one spot on though.

The BIG 6 will do what they want. It's all money driven.

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by tim_noone » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:17 am

On Reading a piece from the Times I'm going with Marmalade on my toast...feeling very cultured this morning.
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Re: Times article this morning

Post by Steve1956 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:20 am

tim_noone wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:17 am
On Reading a piece from the Times I'm going with Marmalade on my toast...feeling very cultured this morning.
:lol: get outta here!
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Re: Times article this morning

Post by Steve1956 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:26 am

tim_noone wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:17 am
On Reading a piece from the Times I'm going with Marmalade on my toast...feeling very cultured this morning.
I used to get the Sunday Times delivered I didnt read it....I was just trying to impress the paper boy.

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:48 am

She gets it.

I don’t know who I would feel sorry for more, the fans of excluded clubs like us who lose that buzz from playing the big teams (though as we know beating teams in the level below can still be a buzz) or the fans of these super league teams like Liverpool who would lose the ability to go to any competition away from home they take seriously (not everyone can afford a European away day and the whole vibe of an away day out is different to being at home).

Basically, it would be a disaster for one and all, apart from the few rich owners involved who would make billions, mainly from overseas TV viewers and sponsorships.

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by IanMcL » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:11 am

jackmiggins wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:29 am
The article is absolutely spot on. Furthermore, if there is to be a super league, I would hope the participants would not be eligible to form part of our leagues.
I agree. Choose and answer to your fans.
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Re: Times article this morning

Post by Stayingup » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:26 am

nyclaret wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:50 am
Twitter these days is just full of childish anonymous fan accounts presumably run by teenagers who appear to have some of the worst football opinions.
This was a comment on the match report in a broadsheet. The poster had the pretentious name Oxford - Cambridge. I just thought if our team can upset you so much that you would post that tripe and with a moniker like that then I am delighted. What happened to supposed elite education?
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Re: Times article this morning

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:27 pm

Something very similar in the Telegraph that I posted last night on the MMT thread
Chester Perry wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:53 am
Sam Wallace in The Telegraph on the threat the European Super League posed to the Premier League and how upsets like our result at Anfield are what makes the Premier League so absorbing to audiences around the world - he should have also pointed out that Burnley played in the European Cup before Liverpool, Tottenham, Chelsea, Manchester City and Arsenal

If proposed European super league is such a great idea why are its advocates so secretive?
SAM WALLACE JANUARY 23, 2021

Every time the beast peers out at us, in another working document, or the leaked meeting of two mediocre men who happen to have control of a famous football club, one asks the question: how many people on the planet genuinely want a European super league?

Not a percentage, or the kind of delusional survey that football clubs like to estimate global fanbases, but quite simply: how many people? Could they all be accommodated, for instance, in the Old Trafford directors’ box? Those various club chief executives and assorted financiers; Andrea Agnelli; Florentino Perez; Florentino Perez’s PA; Florentino Perez’s driver; Florentino Perez’s tennis partner; Gazprom. In no time at all it becomes hard to fill the seats.

The idea of a European league has no popular groundswell of support or loyal base. Among the paying club fans - either matchgoing or, as we find ourselves now, television subscriber - it is almost universally rejected. Football fans want the rivalries and familiarity of their domestic competitions, promotion and relegation, and then the stardust of an elite European competition, with qualification via league position, as the midweek amuse-bouche. Not a relentless serving of Bayern Munich against Benfica from here to eternity.

Yet with the disclosure this week of more plans for a lucrative European league, all but closed off to those not considered historically glamorous enough, here it is again. This great scaly leviathan which Real Madrid and Juventus and others consider inevitable and in which Manchester United and Liverpool, we are told, are taking an indecent interest. The super league only a relatively tiny group of men in suits want. If we were to put it to the people could a super league muster 200 votes? Would it even get its deposit back?

That it is backed by such a small minority is an inequality as severe as any of those proposed in the latest documents that lay out the destruction of 65 years of meritocratic European competition, and pose a grave threat to domestic league football. A small group of men whose clubs have, in the case of Perez and Agnelli, sucked dry the resources of their own leagues and are now scanning the football galaxy for a new donor planet to ravage.

Remarkably, the likes of Ed Woodward, the Manchester United executive vice-chairman, and Liverpool’s Fenway Sports ownership are listening to European rivals who have turned their own leagues into one or two club dictatorships. There will be a cost. There is no limitless broadcast revenue, and however much faith is placed in the likes of Netflix or Apple TV entering the market, a closed European league will deprive domestic leagues of broadcast revenue.

Most of all, it will affect the earning power of the Premier League. Broadcasters who have paid premium prices for the Premier League, the globe’s most popular sport league, will be forced to redirect resources towards the auction for European league rights. The advantage that the Premier League has over European rivals will be wiped out and the biggest English clubs will have been complicit in it. Complicit in the long-term plan of big European clubs, who have spoiled their own domestic leagues, to eliminate the Premier League’s financial hegemony.

The clues were in Project Big Picture (PBP) – supposedly a plan to distribute more of the Premier League’s wealth around the lower leagues. At first glance it was an act of generosity, but as the details for a European league emerge one can see what the biggest clubs were conceding with PBP. That is to say, ultimately a much-reduced Premier League broadcast deal, and thus for everyone else a share of much less. For those 14 Premier League clubs not invited to the new super league, it would be their income that would have taken the greatest proportionate hit under PBP.

Liverpool 0, Burnley 1. This was the result of the week, a game so much more compelling and widely-discussed than, for instance, Liverpool 0, Manchester United 0. If the American ownerships of our two most famous clubs did not realise the significance of Thursday’s result, then they are already two steps behind Isiah Whitlock Jr, the US actor, most notably of The Wire, whose Twitter commentary on it was testament to the enduring reach of English football. It was like Mary Berry offering a scorching hot-take on the Baltimore Orioles.

The Premier League is built on its potential for jeopardy, and while Covid-19 has introduced that on some scale to all European leagues, these are the games that are truly its brand. The research shows that the likes of Liverpool and United and Arsenal have more supporters than others, and those supporters like to see their teams win as they have done for the most part, over the last three decades. But what really sends shockwaves through the game and its audience, what refreshes interest and establishes the great plotlines, is the competitiveness that leads to nights like Thursday at Anfield. Lose that and you lose the Premier League.

As for the Champions League and its precursor, European club competitions were established as a dream open to everyone. Bayern Munich did not compete in the European Cup until 1969, 14 years after its inception. Paris Saint-Germain played in it for just five seasons in their first 41 years. Manchester City played in it once between 1955 and 2011. Barcelona waited 37 years to win it. Under the new proposals all these clubs would be permanent members of a super league, and the chances of a club like Feyenoord or Nottingham Forest or Steaua Bucharest ever winning it again would feel absurd.

This is what they want – this small group of powerful men who are barely willing to give their opinion in public. It is their dream at the cost of everyone else and everything else.
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Re: Times article this morning

Post by claretandy » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:38 pm

Sam Wallace made a great point, our win over Liverpool made more news than Liverpools draw with Man Utd.

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by Dy1geo » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:40 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:38 am
Haven't FIFA come out and said any players joining a breakaway league would be barred from playing international football?
I would hate the European super league to happen and ultimately money talks. Similar threats were issued in other sports and we know how they ended up. With regards international football would we be happy watching it if best players were banned, it would end up like BDO compared to PDC

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by scouseclaret » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:53 pm

For me, the “glamour tie” appealed it the Champions League (or European Cup as I still prefer, for it has never been a “champions” league) wore off a long time ago. I can barely be bothered to watch any of the group stage matches, and certainly wouldn’t pay BT Sport for the privilege. Might watch one or two of the knock out ties but that’s about it.

I just hope the FA/PL have the balls to kick out any club participating - I genuinely believe the PL could survive and thrive without them.

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by bobinho » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:53 pm

Good article. It seems she “gets it” with her chosen words in the final paragraph. My thoughts immediately after the game were we absolutely refused to “know our place”.

I agree wholeheartedly with jackmiggins too.... you breakaway, you stay away. No league cup, no FA cup, nothing.

Might be worth them considering this breakaway league would probably need to be a franchise... no chance any of the mentioned clubs would want relegation on their “honours” list.

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by CardiffClaret » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:00 pm

This European super league talk frightens me. It would essentially mark the end of English football as we know it. What’s the point of a pyramid system if the top isn’t the top? It would completely devalue winning the premier league as the winner could no longer claim to be the best in England.

Football and Burnley are a big part of my life but I’m not sure I could continue to watch it if this happens. It’s an absolutely diabolical proposition.

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by Goody1975 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:04 pm

Football fans could kill this stone dead but they probably won't

If as a collective they didn't buy products from the companies who sponsor the European Super League, they would prevent them from getting involved in something that is toxic for them.

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by bfcjg » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:08 pm

Great article, however when agents realise their clients and therefore them could rake in even more cash it will be pushed.

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by Roosterbooster » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:16 pm

I agree with the sentiment of the article entirely. And the clubs would almost certainly lose all of their proper fans.

But Liverpool, City, Man U, Arsenal etc have way more other "fans" who have never even been to a game, and get all the kicks they need by detailing their "support" on social media. Will they even notice if the stadiums are empty? Or if they never play at their home ground? I certainly doubt they will care, as long as they can buy the half and half scarf and pay for a mocked up selfie to stick on Instagram

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by Stayingup » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:16 pm

What would happen if say these 'Elite' clubs are banned from their domestic leagues and therefore cant blood their young players AND the funding from their rich owners stops?

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by Bfc » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:27 pm

Another consideration is the air travel clubs will have, when playing i.e. in Germany, Italy, or for that matter any Country. There would no short 1 hour coach trips within the North West. All the away games would involve overnight stays, before and after a game. Meaning players will spend a lot of time away from home, living out of suitcases. They won't see much of their partners and children.
There is also risk of them being stranded because of fog, snow and ice at an airport in their home Country and the game not taking place as scheduled. The TV broadcasters would then lose out on revenues.
The supporters of any of the participating clubs, would likely at most see 2 maybe 3 away games a season, because of either cost, or not getting time off work. Some of those supporters will have watched their team home and away for years. The blank matchdays will to them will feel like all supporters feel now,through the Covids lockdown.
Their would be a revenue effect on the clubs still in the Premier League, due to the reduction in away support, from the teams leaving.

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by Bigvince » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:32 pm

That’s a poor article, I mean who could ever get fed up of eating Chocolate🤔

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by Stayingup » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:41 pm

Bfc wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:27 pm
Another consideration is the air travel clubs will have, when playing i.e. in Germany, Italy, or for that matter any Country. There would no short 1 hour coach trips within the North West. All the away games would involve overnight stays, before and after a game. Meaning players will spend a lot of time away from home, living out of suitcases. They won't see much of their partners and children.
There is also risk of them being stranded because of fog, snow and ice at an airport in their home Country and the game not taking place as scheduled. The TV broadcasters would then lose out on revenues.
The supporters of any of the participating clubs, would likely at most see 2 maybe 3 away games a season, because of either cost, or not getting time off work. Some of those supporters will have watched their team home and away for years. The blank matchdays will to them will feel like all supporters feel now,through the Covids lockdown.
Their would be a revenue effect on the clubs still in the Premier League, due to the reduction in away support, from the teams leaving.
There certainly would be a revenue effect for the 14 remaining clubs. The TV revenue would drop dramatically. See Sam Wallace article above from Chester.

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by scouseclaret » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:56 pm

Goody1975 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:04 pm
Football fans could kill this stone dead but they probably won't

If as a collective they didn't buy products from the companies who sponsor the European Super League, they would prevent them from getting involved in something that is toxic for them.
Generally I think it’s fans who have prevented it from happening already. I know loads of Liverpool fans - season ticket holders who regularly go away in Europe, but not often domestically- and none of them want this. They value their European tripes as “special”, their rivalries with Utd and Everton, and even the possibility that a team like ours can turn up and beat them.

Whether they would actually boycott or stop going if a Super League became a reality is, though, a different matter...

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by IanMcL » Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:30 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:27 pm
Something very similar in the Telegraph that I posted last night on the MMT thread
That is the whole thing in a nutshell.

All money successfully away to a few. Fans unable to afford to jet all over Europe, especially when the Russians buy their way in.

TV only. Who cares that these teams win one week and lose the next, in a 'non league?

How does any of it offer the growth of football or development of a footballer?

Boo!

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Re: Times article this morning

Post by WalkdenClaret » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:26 pm

"Not a percentage, or the kind of delusional survey that football clubs like to estimate global fanbases, but quite simply: how many people? Could they all be accommodated, for instance, in the Old Trafford directors’ box? Those various club chief executives and assorted financiers; Andrea Agnelli; Florentino Perez; Florentino Perez’s PA; Florentino Perez’s driver; Florentino Perez’s tennis partner; Gazprom. In no time at all it becomes hard to fill the seats."

That Sam Wallace article just reminded me of the appalling 'Club Wembley' TM seats situation in big matches but particularly the FA Cup final. The shots of the empty seats of the 'couldn't give a ***, I'd rather eat prawn sandwiches (smashed avocado now :mrgreen: )' while loyal fans scramble for the tiny allocation is another annoyance of the corporatisation of football.

Peter Loo
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Re: Times article this morning

Post by Peter Loo » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:40 pm

Not read the article but I’ve been saying every time this so called super league thing comes up, by all means go play there but if you do your club will not be able to play in our domestic leagues.

In other words you can’t have your cake and eat it and at the expense of the clubs left.

bfcmik
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Re: Times article this morning

Post by bfcmik » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:03 am

Bfc wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:27 pm
Another consideration is the air travel clubs will have, when playing i.e. in Germany, Italy, or for that matter any Country. There would no short 1 hour coach trips within the North West. All the away games would involve overnight stays, before and after a game. Meaning players will spend a lot of time away from home, living out of suitcases. They won't see much of their partners and children.
There is also risk of them being stranded because of fog, snow and ice at an airport in their home Country and the game not taking place as scheduled. The TV broadcasters would then lose out on revenues.
The supporters of any of the participating clubs, would likely at most see 2 maybe 3 away games a season, because of either cost, or not getting time off work. Some of those supporters will have watched their team home and away for years. The blank matchdays will to them will feel like all supporters feel now,through the Covids lockdown.
Their would be a revenue effect on the clubs still in the Premier League, due to the reduction in away support, from the teams leaving.
NFL teams in the States usually fly into the host city the morning of the game and fly home immediately afterwards - maybe a team from the East or West coasts playing on the opposite coast MAY fly in the day before but they are all on that plane home a couple of hours after the game finishes

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