As bad as things got: Burnley, 9th May 1987 - from twohundredpercent.com

[Chester Perry]

This is a regular feature on twohundredpercent.com - this time it is the turn of Burnley and that fateful Orient game - remember this is not a Burnley perspective

As Bad As Things Got: Burnley, 9th May 1987
by Ian | Jan 29, 2021

By the middle of the 1980s, Burnley had entered a seemingly perpetual period of deep decline. As recently as 1976, they’d been a First Division club, but considerable debt had forced the sale of such players as Leighton James and Martin Dobson. When The Bob Lord stand was opened at Turf Moor in 1974, it was joked that they should have called it The Martin Dobson Stand, because his transfer to Everton in the same summer that it opened had paid for it.

1976 had started badly for Burnley, with the departure of manager Jimmy Adamson, who’d played for the club from 1947 to 1964, had been on the coaching staff for the next six years, and then the manager from 1970. This wasn’t just a manager leaving a football club – it was the departure of a club legend. Burnley finished one place off the bottom of the First Division table at the end of the 1975/76 season, five points – the equivalent of seven, today – from safety.

The Second Division, however, didn’t provide much respite for a club suffering a twin hit of rapidly dwindling attendances and rising debt. They failed to finish above mid-table in the next three seasons, and in 1980, exactly twenty years after they’d been the champions of England, they were relegated again, into the Third Division for the first time in their history. In 1976, Burnley’s average home attendance was 18,620. By 1980, it was 8,118.

On this occasion, though, there was a moment that signalled another direction. Under the managership of Brian Miller, they won the Third Division championship on goal difference from Carlisle United at the end of the 1981/82 season. There was brief talk of a revival in this corner of Lancashire, but nothing came of it. They were relegated straight back the end of the following season.

Burnley’s finances hadn’t improved. The average crowd for the title season was 6,936. Crowds were now falling right the way across the game in England, partly because of hooliganism, partly because of the broader state of the economy, partly because of a perception of negative football. There were a myriad different reasons for this slump, but it hit hard. By the 1984/85 season, when Burnley were relegated again, this time into the Fourth Division, their average home attendance had fallen to just 4,116.

Meanwhile, at the bottom of the Football League, something significant was changing. The Alliance Premier League – later the Football Conference and now the National League – had been founded in 1979, bringing together clubs from the Southern League and the Northern Premier League for the first time in a national non-league division. Since its formation, the Football League had existed as a closed shop – cynics might have called it a cartel – with an archaic system at the bottom of the Fourth Division whereby the bottom four clubs had to be voted back in, a process called “re-election” at the end of every season, with non-league clubs also entitled to apply to join.

It wasn’t particularly commonplace for clubs to get voted out, and only thirteen clubs were, subsequent to the formation of the Third Division North and South, in 1920. Hartlepool United had to apply on fourteen separate occasions, but were never voted out. It could be volatile, but with four clubs having to reapply every year and no more than a handful of clubs being replaced each decades, the odds were very much in favour of the Football League clubs.

By the middle of the 1980s, though, it was clear that something had to change. League attendances were at their lowest point ever and clubs at the bottom end of Division Four were largely in a disastrous financial condition. In May 1986, the Football League voted to introduce automatic promotion and relegation with the now-rebranded Football Conference from the end of the 1986/87 season. Burnley finished the 1985/86 season in fourteenth place in Division Four.

The vote may well have sent a shiver down the spine of anybody connected with Burnley Football Club. It may have been considered inconceivable that other members of Football League would have voted Burnley, one of its founder members and Football League champions just a quarter of a century earlier, out from its ranks, but the arrival of this new system changed everything. Things were getting more meritocratic, and that didn’t suit this particular club, at the time.

Burnley kicked off the 1986/87 season at Torquay United, and any supporters who had concerns from the outset turned out to be right. In front of crowds that seldom rose much above 2,000 – they bottomed out in November 1986, when just 1,696 people turned up to witness a rare win, against Colchester United – Burnley slid towards the bottom of the table, with just one win from seven league matches leading up to the last Saturday of the season.

The week before the last day, there had been five teams – Lincoln City, Torquay United, Tranmere Rovers, Burnley and Rochdale – who could still finish bottom. That day, Burnley sprang a surprise, beating promotion-chasing Southend United, but on the following Tuesday night they lost to Crewe Alexandra whilst results elsewhere didn’t go their way, either.

By this time, and with Tranmere and Rochdale having done enough to secure their safety, it was a three-horse race to the bottom, with the other two clubs in trouble being Lincoln City, who needed a point away at Swansea City, and Torquay United, who were at home against Crewe Alexandra and needed a win, although a point could be enough if results elsewhere went their way.

Burnley went into the final day of the season in ninety-second place in the Football League, needing a win against an Orient team that needed a win to have a chance of securing a play-off place in order to stay up. If both Lincoln and Torquay won, Burnley were down regardless of their result against Orient, but this didn’t seem likely, considering that these were the bottom three teams in the division.

The severity of the position finally seemed to hit home, across the country. The story received extensive local and national media coverage. It felt as though people had forgotten about Burnley. Eleven years earlier, they’d been a First Division club. Exactly twenty-five years earlier, they’d been playing in an FA Cup final against Spurs. Two years prior to that, they’d been the champions of England.

And on top of that, they were one of the twelve original founding members of the Football League. No founder member of the Football League had left it since Accrington, in the 1890s. This was the closest that a founder member had come to losing their Football League place since then.

A local support that had drifted away from the club remembered it again, and a crowd of 15,696 turned out at Turf Moor. The atmosphere was febrile – the Orient manager Frank Clark reportedly received a visit from a police officer warning about his players safety should they win – so would be entirely understandable if the players’ nerves were completely shredded as they took to the pitch.

Burnley’s players, however, eventually rose to the challenge. Shortly before half-time, Neil Grewcock cut in from the right-hand side and fired a diagonal shot across the penalty area and in. Just as importantly, other results were also going their way. Torquay were two goals down at home against Crewe, whilst Lincoln weren’t doing much better at Swansea.

And then three minutes into the second half, a Burnley corner from the right-hand side fell kindly for an unmarked Ian Britton, and his header from six yards out dropped into the bottom corner of the goal to double Burnley’s lead. An Orient goal turned the tension back up for the last half hour, but the Clarets held onto win the match.

Elsewhere, an even more unlikely set of circumstances were making for an incredible end to an extraordinary day. Crowd trouble at the Torquay match had led to police with dogs getting involved and with a couple of minutes left to play one of the dogs, in the heat – and over-excitement – of the moment, bit the Torquay United defender Jim McNichol, who had already pulled a goal back for his team with a deflected free-kick.

McNichol received three puncture wounds and required five minutes attention, as well as seventeen stitches after the match, and in the third minute of injury time following the bite, Paul Dobson scored an equaliser to send Lincoln, who had lost two-nil at Swansea, down on goal difference instead.

Ian Britton’s goal, which had given Burnley a two-goal cushion that the team had ended up needing to employ, had kept one of the founder members of the Football League in the Football League. It was his first goal for the club. He would go on to make one hundred and eight appearances for Burnley before leaving in 1989 and, after a brief spell playing non-league football, retiring.

It was reasonably common knowledge at the time that Burnley would have struggled to survive in the non-league game, such were was dreadful state of the club’s finances, and it has also since been revealed by a former Burnley director that the club’s position was such that it was considering purchasing another club, Cardiff City, and moving it lock, stock and barrel to Lancashire in the event of relegation.

Cardiff City were up for sale at the time, and the director concerned, Clive Holt, told the Burnley match-day programme in a 2014 interview that “We would have been the first franchise club had we lost our league status, because we felt we couldn’t survive in non-league.” He also stated that they never found out whether the Football League or Football Association would have ratified such an arrangement.

Burnley’s recovery took time. By the end of the 1980s, although never found themselves sucked into drama at the very foot of the table, they were still a bottom half of Division Four club. It took the intervention of Jimmy Mullen, to finally put some colour back into the club’s cheeks. Mullen had arrived at the club as assistant to manager Frank Casper, but when Casper resigned early in the 1991/92 season, it was a huge shock. Casper had taken the team to sixth place in Division Four in 1991, their highest league position since relegation six years earlier, and Mullen was suddenly thrust into the managerial position. Two years later, he took them up again. The club reached the Premier League in 2009.

Notts County became the first of the founding twelve Football League clubs to be relegated into the non-league game, in 2019, but Burnley going into the last game of the season needing a win to stay in the Football League was a different matter altogether. This was a club that had won the Football League Championship just 27 years earlier, enough for most adults to be able to remember, to some extent or other.

And on top of that, this was the first year of automatic promotion and relegation. The novelty of automatic promotion and relegation between the League and thhe Conference would have brought attention to whoever was involved, but a club like Burnley being involved gave the media a huge story, whatever happened at Turf Moor on the last day of the 1986/87 season. They would either go down or they would stay up and that would be a news story, whichever way it went. On this occasion it turned out to be a good news story, for Burnley supporters.

[ClaretTony]

I know it's nit picking but I wish some of these articles would make a bit of an effort to be factually correct.

"In front of crowds that seldom rose much above 2,000" - 18 of the 23 home league games were in front of crowds of over 2,000
"but on the following Tuesday night they lost to Crewe Alexandra" - was played on Bank Holiday Monday
"It was his first goal for the club" - Ian Britton had scored in an earlier 2-2 draw v Torquay

[tiger76]

This is a regular feature on twohundredpercent.com - this time it is the turn of Burnley and that fateful Orient game - remember this is not a Burnley perspective

As Bad As Things Got: Burnley, 9th May 1987
by Ian | Jan 29, 2021

By the middle of the 1980s, Burnley had entered a seemingly perpetual period of deep decline. As recently as 1976, they’d been a First Division club, but considerable debt had forced the sale of such players as Leighton James and Martin Dobson. When The Bob Lord stand was opened at Turf Moor in 1974, it was joked that they should have called it The Martin Dobson Stand, because his transfer to Everton in the same summer that it opened had paid for it.

1976 had started badly for Burnley, with the departure of manager Jimmy Adamson, who’d played for the club from 1947 to 1964, had been on the coaching staff for the next six years, and then the manager from 1970. This wasn’t just a manager leaving a football club – it was the departure of a club legend. Burnley finished one place off the bottom of the First Division table at the end of the 1975/76 season, five points – the equivalent of seven, today – from safety.

The Second Division, however, didn’t provide much respite for a club suffering a twin hit of rapidly dwindling attendances and rising debt. They failed to finish above mid-table in the next three seasons, and in 1980, exactly twenty years after they’d been the champions of England, they were relegated again, into the Third Division for the first time in their history. In 1976, Burnley’s average home attendance was 18,620. By 1980, it was 8,118.

On this occasion, though, there was a moment that signalled another direction. Under the managership of Brian Miller, they won the Third Division championship on goal difference from Carlisle United at the end of the 1981/82 season. There was brief talk of a revival in this corner of Lancashire, but nothing came of it. They were relegated straight back the end of the following season.

Burnley’s finances hadn’t improved. The average crowd for the title season was 6,936. Crowds were now falling right the way across the game in England, partly because of hooliganism, partly because of the broader state of the economy, partly because of a perception of negative football. There were a myriad different reasons for this slump, but it hit hard. By the 1984/85 season, when Burnley were relegated again, this time into the Fourth Division, their average home attendance had fallen to just 4,116.

Meanwhile, at the bottom of the Football League, something significant was changing. The Alliance Premier League – later the Football Conference and now the National League – had been founded in 1979, bringing together clubs from the Southern League and the Northern Premier League for the first time in a national non-league division. Since its formation, the Football League had existed as a closed shop – cynics might have called it a cartel – with an archaic system at the bottom of the Fourth Division whereby the bottom four clubs had to be voted back in, a process called “re-election” at the end of every season, with non-league clubs also entitled to apply to join.

It wasn’t particularly commonplace for clubs to get voted out, and only thirteen clubs were, subsequent to the formation of the Third Division North and South, in 1920. Hartlepool United had to apply on fourteen separate occasions, but were never voted out. It could be volatile, but with four clubs having to reapply every year and no more than a handful of clubs being replaced each decades, the odds were very much in favour of the Football League clubs.

By the middle of the 1980s, though, it was clear that something had to change. League attendances were at their lowest point ever and clubs at the bottom end of Division Four were largely in a disastrous financial condition. In May 1986, the Football League voted to introduce automatic promotion and relegation with the now-rebranded Football Conference from the end of the 1986/87 season. Burnley finished the 1985/86 season in fourteenth place in Division Four.

The vote may well have sent a shiver down the spine of anybody connected with Burnley Football Club. It may have been considered inconceivable that other members of Football League would have voted Burnley, one of its founder members and Football League champions just a quarter of a century earlier, out from its ranks, but the arrival of this new system changed everything. Things were getting more meritocratic, and that didn’t suit this particular club, at the time.

Burnley kicked off the 1986/87 season at Torquay United, and any supporters who had concerns from the outset turned out to be right. In front of crowds that seldom rose much above 2,000 – they bottomed out in November 1986, when just 1,696 people turned up to witness a rare win, against Colchester United – Burnley slid towards the bottom of the table, with just one win from seven league matches leading up to the last Saturday of the season.

The week before the last day, there had been five teams – Lincoln City, Torquay United, Tranmere Rovers, Burnley and Rochdale – who could still finish bottom. That day, Burnley sprang a surprise, beating promotion-chasing Southend United, but on the following Tuesday night they lost to Crewe Alexandra whilst results elsewhere didn’t go their way, either.

By this time, and with Tranmere and Rochdale having done enough to secure their safety, it was a three-horse race to the bottom, with the other two clubs in trouble being Lincoln City, who needed a point away at Swansea City, and Torquay United, who were at home against Crewe Alexandra and needed a win, although a point could be enough if results elsewhere went their way.

Burnley went into the final day of the season in ninety-second place in the Football League, needing a win against an Orient team that needed a win to have a chance of securing a play-off place in order to stay up. If both Lincoln and Torquay won, Burnley were down regardless of their result against Orient, but this didn’t seem likely, considering that these were the bottom three teams in the division.

The severity of the position finally seemed to hit home, across the country. The story received extensive local and national media coverage. It felt as though people had forgotten about Burnley. Eleven years earlier, they’d been a First Division club. Exactly twenty-five years earlier, they’d been playing in an FA Cup final against Spurs. Two years prior to that, they’d been the champions of England.

And on top of that, they were one of the twelve original founding members of the Football League. No founder member of the Football League had left it since Accrington, in the 1890s. This was the closest that a founder member had come to losing their Football League place since then.

A local support that had drifted away from the club remembered it again, and a crowd of 15,696 turned out at Turf Moor. The atmosphere was febrile – the Orient manager Frank Clark reportedly received a visit from a police officer warning about his players safety should they win – so would be entirely understandable if the players’ nerves were completely shredded as they took to the pitch.

Burnley’s players, however, eventually rose to the challenge. Shortly before half-time, Neil Grewcock cut in from the right-hand side and fired a diagonal shot across the penalty area and in. Just as importantly, other results were also going their way. Torquay were two goals down at home against Crewe, whilst Lincoln weren’t doing much better at Swansea.

And then three minutes into the second half, a Burnley corner from the right-hand side fell kindly for an unmarked Ian Britton, and his header from six yards out dropped into the bottom corner of the goal to double Burnley’s lead. An Orient goal turned the tension back up for the last half hour, but the Clarets held onto win the match.

Elsewhere, an even more unlikely set of circumstances were making for an incredible end to an extraordinary day. Crowd trouble at the Torquay match had led to police with dogs getting involved and with a couple of minutes left to play one of the dogs, in the heat – and over-excitement – of the moment, bit the Torquay United defender Jim McNichol, who had already pulled a goal back for his team with a deflected free-kick.

McNichol received three puncture wounds and required five minutes attention, as well as seventeen stitches after the match, and in the third minute of injury time following the bite, Paul Dobson scored an equaliser to send Lincoln, who had lost two-nil at Swansea, down on goal difference instead.

Ian Britton’s goal, which had given Burnley a two-goal cushion that the team had ended up needing to employ, had kept one of the founder members of the Football League in the Football League. It was his first goal for the club. He would go on to make one hundred and eight appearances for Burnley before leaving in 1989 and, after a brief spell playing non-league football, retiring.

It was reasonably common knowledge at the time that Burnley would have struggled to survive in the non-league game, such were was dreadful state of the club’s finances, and it has also since been revealed by a former Burnley director that the club’s position was such that it was considering purchasing another club, Cardiff City, and moving it lock, stock and barrel to Lancashire in the event of relegation.

Cardiff City were up for sale at the time, and the director concerned, Clive Holt, told the Burnley match-day programme in a 2014 interview that “We would have been the first franchise club had we lost our league status, because we felt we couldn’t survive in non-league.” He also stated that they never found out whether the Football League or Football Association would have ratified such an arrangement.

Burnley’s recovery took time. By the end of the 1980s, although never found themselves sucked into drama at the very foot of the table, they were still a bottom half of Division Four club. It took the intervention of Jimmy Mullen, to finally put some colour back into the club’s cheeks. Mullen had arrived at the club as assistant to manager Frank Casper, but when Casper resigned early in the 1991/92 season, it was a huge shock. Casper had taken the team to sixth place in Division Four in 1991, their highest league position since relegation six years earlier, and Mullen was suddenly thrust into the managerial position. Two years later, he took them up again. The club reached the Premier League in 2009.

Notts County became the first of the founding twelve Football League clubs to be relegated into the non-league game, in 2019, but Burnley going into the last game of the season needing a win to stay in the Football League was a different matter altogether. This was a club that had won the Football League Championship just 27 years earlier, enough for most adults to be able to remember, to some extent or other.

And on top of that, this was the first year of automatic promotion and relegation. The novelty of automatic promotion and relegation between the League and thhe Conference would have brought attention to whoever was involved, but a club like Burnley being involved gave the media a huge story, whatever happened at Turf Moor on the last day of the 1986/87 season. They would either go down or they would stay up and that would be a news story, whichever way it went. On this occasion it turned out to be a good news story, for Burnley supporters.

Good read CP, I wasn't aware of the Cardiff story, I highly doubt the league would have approved such a move, and it would have been highly embarrassing for all concerned at BFC.

This is funnily enough a question I was pondering just the other day, would we have survived a re-election vote, history would have been on our side, but equally the club was in a heck of a mess on and off the pitch, and you do wonder how we'd have coped in non-league, Colne Dynamoes were an emerging force at that time, and arguably could have easily eclipsed us over the following years.

Thankfully for all concerned we avoided the precipice, and the rest is history as they say. But it was mightily close, and events could have easily gone the other way, so whatever happens over the coming years it's imperative we never find ourselves in that predicament again, and for those who think it can't happen, just look at where Bolton are right now, having been a PL club as recently as 2013, their rapid demise mirrors ours in the late 70's and early 80's. and should serve as a warning how quickly things can turn ugly, when bad decisions are made on and off the pitch.

[ClaretTony]

Good read CP, I wasn't aware of the Cardiff story, I highly doubt the league would have approved such a move, and it would have been highly embarrassing for all concerned at BFC.

This is funnily enough a question I was pondering just the other day, would we have survived a re-election vote, history would have been on our side, but equally the club was in a heck of a mess on and off the pitch, and you do wonder how we'd have coped in non-league, Colne Dynamoes were an emerging force at that time, and arguably could have easily eclipsed us over the following years.

Thankfully for all concerned we avoided the precipice, and the rest is history as they say. But it was mightily close, and events could have easily gone the other way, so whatever happens over the coming years it's imperative we never find ourselves in that predicament again, and for those who think it can't happen, just look at where Bolton are right now, having been a PL club as recently as 2013, their rapid demise mirrors ours in the late 70's and early 80's. and should serve as a warning how quickly things can turn ugly, when bad decisions are made on and off the pitch.

The Cardiff story was a nonsense and would not have been permitted just as Clive Holt's desperate efforts to change the relegation rules were thrown out days before the Orient game as were our attempts to replay the Crewe game because the referee blew short. We were a desperate club run by a desperate board.

We'd have survived the old re-election system had it still been in place. It was a farce of a system and from 1960, when I first started watching Burnley, through to 1986 only Barrow, Workington, Southport and Bradford PA (in no particular order) had lost their places and been replaced by Cambridge, Hereford, Wimbledon and Wigan (again in no particular order).

All 24 Division 1 clubs had a vote and all 24 Division 2 clubs had a vote. The third and fourth division clubs were not full members of the Football League and had about 8 votes between them so basically the top two divisions decided if any team was to go so as long as you didn't upset them you were OK. There is absolutely no way those clubs would have voted for Scarborough to replace Burnley.

[Rowls]

I think that Oxford also replaced Accrington Stanley after 1960.

Maybe I've got the dates wrong on that though. Not sure.

edit - but I' forgetting AS resigned rather than were not re-elected.

[tim_noone]

I was gonna say "Enjoyable" read..interesting would be more accurate.yes I was one of the 30.000 who attended turf moor that season.a couple of times and the Trip to Crew also. Those running the Club at that time Couldn't run a bath...Thank god for Jimmy Mullen.

[tim_noone]

The Cardiff story was a nonsense and would not have been permitted just as Clive Holt's desperate efforts to change the relegation rules were thrown out days before the Orient game as were our attempts to replay the Crewe game because the referee blew short. We were a desperate club run by a desperate board.

We'd have survived the old re-election system had it still been in place. It was a farce of a system and from 1960, when I first started watching Burnley, through to 1986 only Barrow, Workington, Southport and Bradford PA (in no particular order) had lost their places and been replaced by Cambridge, Hereford, Wimbledon and Wigan (again in no particular order).

All 24 Division 1 clubs had a vote and all 24 Division 2 clubs had a vote. The third and fourth division clubs were not full members of the Football League and had about 8 votes between them so basically the top two divisions decided if any team was to go so as long as you didn't upset them you were OK. There is absolutely no way those clubs would have voted for Scarborough to replace Burnley.

Mmm...day out at Scarborough or Burnley I'm not so sure..as the song goes no one likes us.......and still Evident after our two latest league victories.

[steve1264b]

My dad did business with Clive Holt, they were even looking at stands at Gawthorpe, the TSB were looking at foreclosing.

I remember the torquay game more than than the orient game in a funny way.It was lashing down and i checked tonys fixture list where he puts james penalty as 90 minutes.Tony it must have been 94, 95 at least?

My memory is a deserted turf watched us go 2 down and we suddenly realised this was it, i am convinced that we changed the result that night, we became very vocal.

I was going out with my wife and we had a date for the day of the Scunthorpe away, my dad made a late decision to go so i stood her up.Malley scored in front of us and we had real hope. It was a very quiet journey home.

Everyone says Crewe but we knew before Crewe.

I was so worked up about the Orient game i really didn't sleep for a week and i was tucked up in bed about 8pm that night.

My daughter is 24,a season ticket holder, she has only know the good times, i'm grateful for that but I'm firmly in the be careful what you wish for camp.

Younger posters almost decry the Orient generation but when i walked out of Hillsborough in tears in 1974 (i was 9) i knew we were a better team than Newcastle and the football journey since then has been remarkable.

Look at similar sized clubs who have had nothing like our experiences since 1987.

People complain about hoofball etc, but since Ipswich 16 August 2008 i have never spend as much time on the edge of my seat kicking the ball.

[ClaretTony]

My dad did business with Clive Holt, they were even looking at stands at Gawthorpe, the TSB were looking at foreclosing.

I remember the torquay game more than than the orient game in a funny way.It was lashing down and i checked tonys fixture list where he puts james penalty as 90 minutes.Tony it must have been 94, 95 at least?

I think we all knew that night just how important Taffy’s pen was. You are right, it was way past time but goals were never given a plus time then, just shown as 90. When I first started going a last minute goal was always recorded at 89 minutes for some reason.

[CrosspoolClarets]

The biggest factually incorrect statement is the crowd - my first ever game, they were cramming them in way more than the permitted attendance. We were sat a few abreast on the steps of the BL. That stand alone must have had 500 above capacity.

[dsr]

I think perhaps the Orient game was the last one I remember that had no injury time at all at the end of the second half. George Courtney reffed it, I think?

The article (like at least one more I have read) missed the nuance that we kicked off 15 minutes late so both Lincoln and Torquay (dog bite notwithstanding) finished well before we did. I remember, even on the radio because I was in Wales, the big roar that went round the ground as Radio 2 listeners (I think it was before radio 5?) heard the Lincoln result on their radios.

[jdrobbo]

I NEVER knew that Orient were managed by Frank Clark, who later went onto manage that excellent Nottingham Forest side that were promoted to the premier league in 1993/94 and then finished third in the top flight (qualifying for the UEFA Cup, in which they made the quarter finals. That side were a pleasure to watch, with the likes of Pearce, Hãland, Bohinen, Woan, Roy and Collymore, amongst the ranks.

Did I not know that....

[DCWat]

The Cardiff story was a nonsense and would not have been permitted just as Clive Holt's desperate efforts to change the relegation rules were thrown out days before the Orient game as were our attempts to replay the Crewe game because the referee blew short. We were a desperate club run by a desperate board.

We'd have survived the old re-election system had it still been in place. It was a farce of a system and from 1960, when I first started watching Burnley, through to 1986 only Barrow, Workington, Southport and Bradford PA (in no particular order) had lost their places and been replaced by Cambridge, Hereford, Wimbledon and Wigan (again in no particular order).

All 24 Division 1 clubs had a vote and all 24 Division 2 clubs had a vote. The third and fourth division clubs were not full members of the Football League and had about 8 votes between them so basically the top two divisions decided if any team was to go so as long as you didn't upset them you were OK. There is absolutely no way those clubs would have voted for Scarborough to replace Burnley.

From what the old man has said, I think the main reason that BPA was voted out was down to the Chairman at the time being disliked in the wider football community.

Chairmen picking teams and meddling in a side of the business that they shouldn’t has presumably been going on for many a year.

That and Hartlepoool’s numerous re-elections certainly back up your view that we wouldn’t have been voted out.

[bfcjg]

Reasonable article but it is written for others not Clarets just to get a feel for our decline. Regarding the Colchester match everyman and his dog you speak to about that season attended the game, even those who were not born , there must have been as many on that as the Orient game.

[edlass]

I didn't know anything a out the torquay dog incident until I watched it on a netflix documentary called "Losers".

[claret wizard]

I joined the Army in 1986, I made 2 games that season, the Crewe and Rochdale games over the Christmas holidays. I was confident we’d be ok seeing us win 4-0 but wasn’t so sure after seeing Rochdale thrash us. Grim days. I was on life firing exercise in Wales when I heard we’d beaten Orient. I’d been a regular since the 1979/80 season and felt guilty for years that I’d not been there at the darkest hour.

[ClaretTony]

I didn't know anything a out the torquay dog incident until I watched it on a netflix documentary called "Losers".

We were all supposed to kick off at 3 but we got ours delayed with the other two starting on time. That's why the Torquay game was so late finishing.

[ClaretTony]

I joined the Army in 1986, I made 2 games that season, the Crewe and Rochdale games over the Christmas holidays. I was confident we’d be ok seeing us win 4-0 but wasn’t so sure after seeing Rochdale thrash us. Grim days. I was on life firing exercise in Wales when I heard we’d beaten Orient. I’d been a regular since the 1979/80 season and felt guilty for years that I’d not been there at the darkest hour.

Everyone talks about Hereford (0-6) but the performance in the previous home game against Rochdale (0-3) that you mention was far, far worse.

[ClaretTony]

From what the old man has said, I think the main reason that BPA was voted out was down to the Chairman at the time being disliked in the wider football community.

Chairmen picking teams and meddling in a side of the business that they shouldn’t has presumably been going on for many a year.

That and Hartlepoool’s numerous re-elections certainly back up your view that we wouldn’t have been voted out.

I've just listed the four clubs who I can recall failing to get re-elected in the years from when I first started going to football and the automatic promotion/relegation being introduced in 1987. As you will see, neither Barrow nor Southport finished bottom or anywhere near bottom but they'd upset the big clubs one way or another and they were gone.

Bradford (Park Avenue) replaced by Cambridge in 1970 having finished bottom
Barrow replaced by Hereford in 1972 having finished third from bottom with five points more than Stockport and eight points more than Crewe
Workington replaced by Wimbledon in 1977 having finished bottom
Southport replaced by Wigan in 1978 having finished next to bottom with seven points more than Rochdale

[SalisburyClaret]

Jimmy Mullen - just doesn’t get the credit he deserves

[Jimmymaccer]

I remember being in The Cattle Market as soon as it opened on Orient day........the calm before the storm.

[Colburn_Claret]

Jimmy Mullen - just doesn’t get the credit he deserves

I wouldn't say Jimmy doesn't get credit, but he certainly deserves more.


A question for CT, or someone more in the know. Why were WE in such dire straits financially?

I've been a life long Claret, and started going on the Turf early to mid 60's. A season ticket holder from 70.
I can understand the selling of players to survive during Bob Lords era, sad as it was, we couldn't compete with the big City clubs.
But once we were on the slippery slope, we were in no worse straits than the Gillinghams, Southends, Rochdales of the country. We still had gates that although down on our history, were still favourable to our new peers. We still had Gawthorpe. The ground, although outdated in some respects, had 2 new stands, and was solid. Who or what had made the mistake, that placed us in such a precarious position. Were our overheads so much worse than everyone around us, and if so why?
It's obvious that mistakes were made, but to end up on the edge of the precipice it must have been mistake, after mistake, after mistake.

[Hipper]

There is absolutely no way those clubs would have voted for Scarborough to replace Burnley.

Was Manny Cussins still Chairman at Leeds?!!!

[nil_desperandum]

I know it's nit picking but I wish some of these articles would make a bit of an effort to be factually correct.

"In front of crowds that seldom rose much above 2,000" - 18 of the 23 home league games were in front of crowds of over 2,000

Was just looking at this, and whilst you are correct, it's notable that the home attendance was below 2,500 on 10 occasions that season, and on 2 further occasions it was only 100 above this.
We had quite a lot of local "derbys" too, which some times pushed the attendance above 3,000.
Staggeringly we had less than 3,000 on at home to Wolves!

[ClaretTony]

Was Manny Cussins still Chairman at Leeds?!!!

He’d gone by then

[ClaretTony]

I wouldn't say Jimmy doesn't get credit, but he certainly deserves more.


A question for CT, or someone more in the know. Why were WE in such dire straits financially?

I've been a life long Claret, and started going on the Turf early to mid 60's. A season ticket holder from 70.
I can understand the selling of players to survive during Bob Lords era, sad as it was, we couldn't compete with the big City clubs.
But once we were on the slippery slope, we were in no worse straits than the Gillinghams, Southends, Rochdales of the country. We still had gates that although down on our history, were still favourable to our new peers. We still had Gawthorpe. The ground, although outdated in some respects, had 2 new stands, and was solid. Who or what had made the mistake, that placed us in such a precarious position. Were our overheads so much worse than everyone around us, and if so why?
It's obvious that mistakes were made, but to end up on the edge of the precipice it must have been mistake, after mistake, after mistake.

Lord left us in dire straits and he was facing charges at the time. I think his death spared him serious consequences.

We recovered that situation, got promoted in 82 but then didn’t support the manager and went down. Then we brought in Bond and we overspent wildly on terms of contracts. Easy to blame Bond but he only spent what he was given. Some bad mistakes made at that time and beyond.

[tiger76]

Jimmy Mullen - just doesn’t get the credit he deserves

This is very true, he actually inherited a decent squad from Casper, which had made the play-offs the previous season, before crashing out to Torquay.

However what Jimmy instilled in them was a winning mentality, which we'd been lacking for far too long, there can't be many managers that have won their first 8 games in charge of a club, and it was that run which started to really make the squad and fan base believe we were finally going to escape the clutches of the old 4th division, incredible really that we spent 7 years at that level, and we rarely if ever challenged for promotion in many of those seasons.

And then Jimmy of course briefly got us a taste of life in the 2nd tier, it all ended sadly unfortunately, but he was the gaffer who started to put us back on the football map again, and despite a few bumps along the way it's mainly been an upward curve since then thankfully.

[Wokingclaret]

Lord left us in dire straits and he was facing charges at the time. I think his death spared him serious consequences.

We recovered that situation, got promoted in 82 but then didn’t support the manager and went down. Then we brought in Bond and we overspent wildly on terms of contracts. Easy to blame Bond but he only spent what he was given. Some bad mistakes made at that time and beyond.

Especially Beyond

[dsr]

I've just listed the four clubs who I can recall failing to get re-elected in the years from when I first started going to football and the automatic promotion/relegation being introduced in 1987. As you will see, neither Barrow nor Southport finished bottom or anywhere near bottom but they'd upset the big clubs one way or another and they were gone.

Bradford (Park Avenue) replaced by Cambridge in 1970 having finished bottom
Barrow replaced by Hereford in 1972 having finished third from bottom with five points more than Stockport and eight points more than Crewe
Workington replaced by Wimbledon in 1977 having finished bottom
Southport replaced by Wigan in 1978 having finished next to bottom with seven points more than Rochdale

I think Barrow, Workington, and before them Gateshead all suffered from being too far away. Clubs didn't like going there.

[ClaretTony]

I think Barrow, Workington, and before them Gateshead all suffered from being too far away. Clubs didn't like going there.

Gateshead had gone in the season before I started going and were replaced by Peterborough but I'm not sure geography had anything to do with it, more that they'd upset the big club chairmen.

[nil_desperandum]

I think that Oxford also replaced Accrington Stanley after 1960.

Maybe I've got the dates wrong on that though. Not sure.

edit - but I' forgetting AS resigned rather than were not re-elected.

It was Oxford Utd, and of course, 1962.
The reason for my post is to remind people that when Accy returned to the league, by a remarkable coincidence they replaced ...... Oxford Utd who were in the automatic relegation places. How ironic was that?

[Colburn_Claret]

Lord left us in dire straits and he was facing charges at the time. I think his death spared him serious consequences.

We recovered that situation, got promoted in 82 but then didn’t support the manager and went down. Then we brought in Bond and we overspent wildly on terms of contracts. Easy to blame Bond but he only spent what he was given. Some bad mistakes made at that time and beyond.

I remember the Bond era well. Our International squad in the 3rd tier.
It's like remembering where you were when Kennedy was assassinated. I was camping with my future half, on a cycling tour, in Garstang, when Bond was appointed. My lass couldn't understand why I was so pi$$ed off. Spoilt the whole holiday. My brother insists, that if it wasn't for the injury to Reeves, we might have got away with it and been successful, but it was a really expensive error.
Cheers Tony for the insight.

[ClaretTony]

I remember the Bond era well. Our International squad in the 3rd tier.
It's like remembering where you were when Kennedy was assassinated. I was camping with my future half, on a cycling tour, in Garstang, when Bond was appointed. My lass couldn't understand why I was so pi$$ed off. Spoilt the whole holiday. My brother insists, that if it wasn't for the injury to Reeves, we might have got away with it and been successful, but it was a really expensive error.
Cheers Tony for the insight.

I don’t think we’d have got away with anything. Had Reeves not suffered that injury I believe we’d have gone up. And the big errors came later with the appointments of Benson, Buchan & Cavanagh.

[Herts Clarets]

Lord left us in dire straits and he was facing charges at the time. I think his death spared him serious consequences.

We recovered that situation, got promoted in 82 but then didn’t support the manager and went down. Then we brought in Bond and we overspent wildly on terms of contracts. Easy to blame Bond but he only spent what he was given. Some bad mistakes made at that time and beyond.

What charges was Lord facing? Can you expand on your comment as I have not been aware of what he was up to.

[ClaretTony]

What charges was Lord facing? Can you expand on your comment as I have not been aware of what he was up to.

He was under an FA investigation at the time of his death - I obviously don't have details but was told that it was a very serious financial matter. The one thing I do know, I believe it to be true, is that he borrowed money from Adamson and then repaid it by increasing his wage.

[Culmclaret]

Bond was unfairly blamed. We should not have gone down with the squad we had in 84/85 which was the one bequeathed by Bond. It was as Tony says what happened after Bond that was calamitous. Benson, Buchan and Cavanagh were three awful managers

[Colburn_Claret]

I admit I disliked Bond long before Burnley, as did the fans of most clubs he managed.
Only really Norwich where he had any prolonged success. I can remember having a conversation in the Centre Spot before a game against Bournemouth, and they despised him. He was always the first rat to leave the sinking ships, then got his excuses in early, so that it was everyones fault but his own. I was gutted when he was appointed.
The team he brought together was fantastic on paper, and must have cost a fortune in wages alone, especially at that level. As CT and my brother pointed out, only the injury to Reeves stopped it from working out, but as an experiment, wether through bad luck, or not, it failed. I think the cheap options that followed were down to putting all the eggs in one basket imo. I doubt even success though, would have altered my opinion of Bond.