Ashley Westwood - best ever?

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:50 pm

We’ve been lucky to have some good central midfielders in recent years.

Defour injuries aside was something special. And Barton was equally as good and influential.

Obviously Corks been a steady if a little lacking in excitement type of player. Although he was our first England international centre midfielder since who?!

But Westwood. Just such a top player. Combines the best attributes of all those above plus with that energy you need.

Has an edge without being nasty. Is excellent on the ball and off it. His passing and crossing is brilliant. And occasionally gets a crucial goal. Actually always very confident when the ball lands near him around the box as he hits the ball so well.

Think most were underwhelmed when we spent a few quid on him as back up.

Who was the last central midfielder we had who was as consistently influential as he is at this level?

Burnleyareback2 · Post by **Burnleyareback2** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:53 pm

I agree with your sentiment here and Westwood is a top player but seems to excel when Cork is around.

Not too take away anything from him but I reckon Barton was the last one.

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:53 pm

Defour, Cork, Westwood, Barton

In that order for me

DomBFC1882 · Post by **DomBFC1882** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:56 pm

Barton best of them all and I think his CV shows that

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:58 pm

Barton, Defour, Cork then Westwood in that order for me.

Wellsy1882 · Post by **Wellsy1882** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:04 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:53 pm
Defour, Cork, Westwood, Barton

In that order for me

All 3 before westwood

Leyland Claret · Post by **Leyland Claret** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:06 pm

Work rate - no question about that
Quality - dead balls are obviously very good but the other parts of his game aren’t as good as the others mentioned on here. Correct me if I’m wrong but apart from the goals straight from corners his only other goal recently is Leicester at home? He plays from a very deep lying position which is what SD wants him to do but his creation of chances (apart from free kicks and corners) is quite low. Saying all that he is still a starter for me in this current squad

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:09 pm

Barton looked like a fish out of water in the premier league for us.
Defour was way above anyone but hasn't got enough games in for this sort of praise.
Cork possibly.

Westwood probably for his pressing and desire. Add his corner taking skills and your far off

gtclaret · Post by **gtclaret** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:10 pm

Phil Malley, different class

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:11 pm

Leyland Claret wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:06 pm
Work rate - no question about that
Quality - dead balls are obviously very good but the other parts of his game aren’t as good as the others mentioned on here. Correct me if I’m wrong but apart from the goals straight from corners his only other goal recently is Leicester at home? He plays from a very deep lying position which is what SD wants him to do but his creation of chances (apart from free kicks and corners) is quite low. Saying all that he is still a starter for me in this current squad

Stats on Twitter were saying Westwood has created most of our chances this season.

Iloveyoubrady · Post by **Iloveyoubrady** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:14 pm

Scored a good goal vs Newcastle this year as well

Sheedyclaret · Post by **Sheedyclaret** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:14 pm

Barton for me he was brilliant fpr us..

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:19 pm

To answer the op. Barton WASNT equally as good as defour. Influential, yes. Crucial, yes. A leader, yes. But not as good as defour. It’s like comparing Gazza to Bryan robson. We haven’t had a midfielder as good as defour in the whole time I’ve been watching Burnley.

And Westwood does NOT combine the best attributes of the players you mention. He hasn’t defours skill and vision. He hasn’t Bartons leadership qualities. He’s close to cork though...

I agree with the rest, and I like Westwood a lot.

Defour.

Barton.
Cork
Marney
Westwood.

In that order.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:25 pm

Leyland Claret wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:06 pm
Work rate - no question about that
Quality - dead balls are obviously very good but the other parts of his game aren’t as good as the others mentioned on here. Correct me if I’m wrong but apart from the goals straight from corners his only other goal recently is Leicester at home? He plays from a very deep lying position which is what SD wants him to do but his creation of chances (apart from free kicks and corners) is quite low. Saying all that he is still a starter for me in this current squad

Scored against Newcastle this season.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:26 pm

bobinho wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:19 pm
To answer the op. Barton WASNT equally as good as defour. Influential, yes. Crucial, yes. A leader, yes. But not as good as defour. It’s like comparing Gazza to Bryan robson. We haven’t had a midfielder as good as defour in the whole time I’ve been watching Burnley.

And Westwood does NOT combine the best attributes of the players you mention. He hasn’t defours skill and vision. He hasn’t Bartons leadership qualities. He’s close to cork though...

I agree with the rest, and I like Westwood a lot.

Defour.

.

Barton.
Cork
Marney
Westwood.

In that order.

Interesting here’s all of the stats for the other three.

Wellsy1882 · Post by **Wellsy1882** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:28 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:26 pm
Interesting here’s all of the stats for the other three.

Stats irrelevant
Its what they bring to the table

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:28 pm

He has one less goal and eleven more assists than the other three combined.

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:28 pm

Always puts in a good shift-deadly crosser from free kicks. Seems to have enjoyed playing at Burnley after a slow start

fatboy47 · Post by **fatboy47** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:37 pm

Halley, Boyle and Watson.

aclaretinstevenage · Post by **aclaretinstevenage** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:38 pm

Best Ever midfielder for Burnley thread an no mention of Brian O'Neil? Right OK then.

bf2k · Post by **bf2k** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:43 pm

I thought Westwood did Ok today. Nothing special just OK. But that’s what you get from Westwood week in week out is a solid OK performance.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:43 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:28 pm
He has one less goal and eleven more assists than the other three combined.

Stats are irrelevant.

I could show you some stats that prove Harold Shipman saved lives....

You go on the turf.... what did your EYES tell you.

There you have it.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:45 pm

aclaretinstevenage wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:38 pm
Best Ever midfielder for Burnley thread an no mention of Brian O'Neil? Right OK then.

It’s an age thing... I’m sure my dad would say Brian O’Neil.... but I never saw him.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:47 pm

bobinho wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:43 pm
Stats are irrelevant.

I could show you some stats that prove Harold Shipman saved lives....

You go on the turf.... what did your EYES tell you.

There you have it.

My eyes tell me what I said above. He brings what all the others did. And more.

Defour had he been fit regular would easily be our best midfielder ever. But he wasn’t. And isn’t.

Barton. Great player. But was well past at this level.

Which leaves cork. Solid player. But Westwood brings much more.

And stats are part of the story for sure. But he tops them at every single one.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:48 pm

aclaretinstevenage wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:38 pm
Best Ever midfielder for Burnley thread an no mention of Brian O'Neil? Right OK then.

There is a question mark in the thread.

And I didn’t see Brian o Neil. Too young thankfuly.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:57 pm

I remember when we signed him and a lot of people were underwhelmed, questioned it etc.

During his time here some of the usual suspects have continued to question why he's here.

He's become an integral part of the team and I'd struggle to name games where he's let us down.

Long may it continue

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:08 pm

Also. The only one of the four to win a premier league player of the season award for us. Which says it all given some of the players in our side he played alongside.

Barton did at the level below.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:13 pm

Its all about opinions, but for me Cork is better on the ball and reads the game far better than Westwood.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:23 pm

Westwood is mr reliable you'll rarely get less than 7/10 on the player rating threads I'll wager, and crucially for us he misses very few games through injury or suspension, and for a club with a small squad that's a godsend, don't forget we only paid £5m for him, and after initial doubts about him in his early BFC days, he's been one of our mainstays since the 2018-19 season, and it's not just his ability but also his leadership skills that SD appreciates.

Burnleyareback2 · Post by **Burnleyareback2** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:32 pm

Don’t get me wrong, he is a fantastic player and one of he first on the team sheet. But there have been other food players in that role.

Another Arfield for me, Villa fans thought he was dreadful. I still think his half way goal away at villa last season v Heaton should was valid.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:37 pm

tiger76 wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:23 pm
Westwood is mr reliable you'll rarely get less than 7/10 on the player rating threads I'll wager, and crucially for us he misses very few games through injury or suspension, and for a club with a small squad that's a godsend, don't forget we only paid £5m for him, and after initial doubts about him in his early BFC days, he's been one of our mainstays since the 2018-19 season, and it's not just his ability but also his leadership skills that SD appreciates.

We even got a discount cos Villa were skint and needed to pay the taxman, so they asked us to pay up early and knocked £500k off the final price

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:47 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:47 pm
My eyes tell me what I said above. He brings what all the others did. And more.

Defour had he been fit regular would easily be our best midfielder ever. But he wasn’t. And isn’t.

Barton. Great player. But was well past at this level.

Which leaves cork. Solid player. But Westwood brings much more.

And stats are part of the story for sure. But he tops them at every single one.

All about opinions I suppose...

The fact that defour wasn’t always fit is to me irrelevant. He was brittle, we all know that, but his class with a football far outshone anything the others have ever managed to do. I could use the same argument you use against D4 against Westwood. He’s only been a steady 7/10 player for 2 seasons, if that .... before that he was in and out of games with alarming regularity. In fact, this season, he’s only really started to show his real worth since December. D4 showed his class EVERY time he played to such a point, not only was he the best Burnley midfielder, he was often the best midfielder in the pitch, even against ‘superior’ opposition.

Comparing Westwood to Barton as midfielders is like comparing Nicky butt to Andrea Pirlo.

If both cork and Westwood are fit, they play no question. If there was only room for one of them, I’m sure the manager would start with a fit jack cork. For me, it’s not what cork creates, it’s what he destroys, and he is excellent at patrolling his zone preventing the opposition doing exactly what they want. He just goes about his business without fuss, or without even looking like he’s stretched. Sign of a very good player is that.

I like Westwood, I really do, and his work rate and work ethic is to be admired... I’m glad he’s here cos he fits the framework beautifully and has a great partnership with cork, but like most of this current first team (maybe three players excepted) no one from the PL will be asking for them in the summer.

Ashley Westwood is most certainly NOT the best PL midfielder we have had. He just isn’t. But I’m glad he plays for us.

Conroy92 · Post by **Conroy92** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:51 pm

I'll be the first to say, I thought Westwood was close to a cap for England last year. When Phillips at Leeds was announced in the squad while they were in the championship, I think he was exceptionally unlucky not to have been in that squad. He had a good few assists and a couple of goals but his consistency on the set pieces (specifically the corners to the back stick) was phenomenal and his work rate and distance covered second to none.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:51 pm

Cork has been selected to play for England whilst here at Burnley. Isnt that stat good enough to prove he’s better than Westwood?

This discussion isnt even a 50/50 for me. He’s in the top five for sure, but at least cork and D4 are ahead of him, and by some distance. Barton and Marney, well you could argue your case and a fag paper breaks it up, but for me those two also get ahead of Ash.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:13 pm

bobinho wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:51 pm
Cork has been selected to play for England whilst here at Burnley. Isnt that stat good enough to prove he’s better than Westwood?

That argument could stack up. If Pickford wasn’t regularly picked ahead of Pope. And Michael Ricketts was picked ahead of anyone.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:19 pm

For consistency it is Westwood and Cork, no question.

But our best ever midfielder is John Deary, everyone knows that.

huw.Y.WattfromWare · Post by **huw.Y.WattfromWare** » Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:37 pm

I like Westy and he gets his 7 every game, which is all you can ask for but Cork and Brownhill could work even better. Cork keeping things ticking along either way but Brownhill is more dynamic than Westy going forward and the balance might possibly be better.
Just putting a thought out there.

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:13 am

It’s a bit insulting to put Defour on some kind of pedestal against our other midfielders of recent seasons.

Was Defour more talented? No doubt.

Did he contribute more to Burnley’s recent success than Barton/Marney/Cork/Westwood etc? No way.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:34 am

Wellsy1882 wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:28 pm
Stats irrelevant
Its what they bring to the table

It is, too many people are obsessed with stats the stats don’t always take into account circumstances & factors which influence & contradict situations, it’s widely acknowledged when JC plays it seems to bring the best out in AW, the screen seems to be there to allow more freedom, the stats wouldn’t necessarily reflect the period earlier when JC was injured, I think stats are a crock of s**t but that’s a complete separate discussion.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:25 am

I haven't quite worked out whether he would be best ever because the game of football was invented in 1992, or whether he would be best ever because the midfield in the two Championship sides (that means best in the country, for the benefit of our younger readers) was clearly less good.

George Halley
Tommy Boyle
Billy Watson
Brian Miller
Jimmy Adamson

Where do they stand in the pantheon?

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:10 am

bobinho wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:47 pm
... D4 showed his class EVERY time he played to such a point, not only was he the best Burnley midfielder, he was often the best midfielder in the pitch, even against ‘superior’ opposition...

Every time? Really? Great player, but I seem to recall him having a few stinkers for us, usually argued away by folk saying “he wasn’t fit”, but isn’t that the point?

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:43 am

Much as I absolutely love the bloke, some of the panegyrics on Defour are a bit...overcooked, shall we say. Undoubtedly the most technically gifted and brilliant footballer we've had in a sizeable portion of our fans' lifetimes, but cricketfieldclarets was asking about consistent influence at PL level. Defour wasn't fit enough often enough for his influence to ever be considered consistent, and Marney and Barton, incredible though they were for what they both did for this club during the time they were here, were nowhere near as capable at PL level (while playing for us) as Cork and Westwood are. Promotions have a knack of elevating the players most involved in them to legendary status — and for good reason — but honestly, if they are to be rated on influence and consistency at our current level, Westwood and Cork are the best two midfielders we've had since forever.

Lord_Bob · Post by **Lord_Bob** » Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:15 am

Haven't checked the stats, but I think our goal scoring has improved recently, like, since when Jack Cork returned to the line up, if you get my drift. Sort of coincides with the sudden praise for Westwood - why would that be?

Don't think it hurt Defour being able to play along side Jack either.

Such a quiet, but highly influential player.

Going back, the most underrated midfielder was Doug Collins - as good a left foot as Dwight.

The best ever in my lifetime was unquestionably Brian O'Neill - but they played before football was invented in 1992....

Quicknick · Post by **Quicknick** » Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:46 am

Lord_Bob wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:15 am
Haven't checked the stats, but I think our goal scoring has improved recently, like, since when Jack Cork returned to the line up, if you get my drift. Sort of coincides with the sudden praise for Westwood - why would that be?

Don't think it hurt Defour being able to play along side Jack either.

Such a quiet, but highly influential player.

Going back, the most underrated midfielder was Doug Collins - as good a left foot as Dwight.

The best ever in my lifetime was unquestionably Brian O'Neill - but they played before football was invented in 1992....

Nice to see the cultured Doug Collins mentioned.

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:35 am

Interesting thread.....

For starters, I want to make it clear that I really like Westwood and the energy he brings to the team. As others have said, he is a great character and another leader on the pitch.

However, there are times quite often during games where his lack of composure and technical ability comes through. He often hurries flicking the ball on aimlessly or hitting areas of the pitch in hope that someone will be there.

Ball retention is something the whole team needs to be better at but for that to happen I think we might need at least one more central midfielder with better composure and technical ability to help keep the ball in tighter situations.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:46 am

Barton - kept fit always good
Cork - usually v fit and keeps us ticking
Defour -classy but 2? league goals and injuries .. rose tinted
Westwood - hard worker great value but desperately need an upgrade

The Misty eyed whimsy some people place on the classy if v low scoring /awful start /subbed off / injury ravaged tenure is quite remarkable .

As for Westy I like him but he’s limited and should be worthy cover next season

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:34 am

Difficult to know what Westy has to do to get some appreciation as a midfielder - perhaps be top in passing accuracy and chances created. Well he is and apart from Grealish, the only English midfielder that comes close over the last few seasons is McNeil. So the only upgrade possible for us is Grealish - don’t hold your breath

Aclaret · Post by **Aclaret** » Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:42 am

Martin Dobson...the best midfielder in my time as a Claret.
A Rolls Royce of a player created and scored many goals..

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:55 am

Quicknick wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:46 am
Nice to see the cultured Doug Collins mentioned.

Quality player was Dougie. I was there that day at Upton Park when he chipped Mervyn Day, what a goal that was.

Brian O'Neil was my all time favourite though, he is just what we have been lacking this season.

claretpipe · Post by **claretpipe** » Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:27 am

Martin Dobson oozed class, skill, power and a great range of passing. He wasn’t a bad sweeper (remember them?) at the end of his career. Also during a difficult time at Burnley, Tommy Cassidy was very classy if a little immobile. In recent times it was a joy to watch Defour, took me back to times when we played a different brand of football. UTC