Aussie Government take on Facebook.

[RammyClaret61]

The Australian government introduced a law making any social media site, specifically pay for any “news” content shared on its platform. Facebook have retaliated by closing all, and any page, or group that as a section titled “news”. This means we can’t see BBC pages, any U.K. newspaper pages, Even the Burnley FC Facebook page. We think because it as a section titled “latest News”. It’s the same with Australian sites, but I’ve noticed Melbourne Storm RL is still there, they’ve changed their News page to just “Latest”. The government are hoping to get nearly $500m out of Facebook. But some organisations are laying people off due to being employed solely to write on social media.
Facebook say they themselves don’t actually share news content. The organisations set their own links making it possible. They then put up “pay walls” and this stops it being read. But encourages subscription.
Is this a case of the government shooting themselves in the foot? Or good on them for trying to get money out of them?

[superdimitri]

Not sure if this topic is deemed political and therefore against the rules. I won't talk about the politics as it doesn't really interest or have any relevance to me but I will say if you haven't done already, pay for a VPN subscription so you can bypass any government or isp censorship. It's also useful to watch games, you can pretend you're in a different country and get cheaper subscriptions and you can even pretend you're in the UK to watch videos sometimes blocked outside the UK, for example the cup games.

It will even help if you want to watch highlights on YouTube that are set as UK only, or even iPlayer for match of the day.

From a privacy point of you, you protect your data from being shared or used by your isp or government, and promote a censorship free internet.

[RammyClaret61]

Please remove if against the rules.

[Bullabill]

........... This means we can’t see BBC pages, any U.K. newspaper pages, ...........

Not quite, Rammy, we just can't see them on F'book. They can all be seen using direct access and that's part of the argument; F'book was showing content generated by newspapers and other news sources alongside it's own advertising (and gaining revenue) whilst the creators of that content were losing that part of the market. Good on the Government I say, and I hope this action is taken by more governments around the world. Google (and others) see it as a reasonable move and are negotiating revenue sharing deals - maybe F'book will come to that view too.

[RammyClaret61]

But the creators where putting the stuff on their own pages, it wasn’t being stolen. ie; Match of the Day, they also were getting advertising revenue.

[AfloatinClaret]

Or more accurately: Newscorp International enrol the assistance of the Australian Liberal Party in a probably doomed attempt to shore-up their collapsing revenues.

[Burnley Ace]

Have I got this right?

Aus want Facebook to pay an annual fee for news content that is shared on Facebook by users. Facebook say it’s not us that are providing and sharing so we aren’t going to pay and to ensure this we will block news sites. The algorithm is a bit zealous and blocks all reference to news and they are accused of being bullies?

Why do so many media sites have a share button that includes Facebook?
Do all the government departments that use Facebook to promote their activities pay a fee to Facebook?

[Devils_Advocate]

Im aware that Australia are very concerned about the influence of Rupert Murdoch's news groups and its divisive propaganda starting to have a negative impact on their country like we've seen in the US and UK.

This therefore may well be linked because Facebook is where a lot of lies and propaganda dressed up as news is targeted by these companies like how for example in the US it has helped grow dangerous conspiracy theories around things like QAnon

Could be unrelated but it would make sense

[gandhisflipflop]

Im aware that Australia are very concerned about the influence of Rupert Murdoch's news groups and its divisive propaganda starting to have a negative impact on their country like we've seen in the US and UK.

This therefore may well be linked because Facebook is where a lot of lies and propaganda dressed up as news is targeted by these companies like how for example in the US it has helped grow dangerous conspiracy theories around things like QAnon

Could be unrelated but it would make sense

I know what you mean. It’s the same here although we call it BBC and SKY.

[Devils_Advocate]

I know what you mean. It’s the same here although we call it BBC and SKY.

Good one

[SalisburyClaret]

Nice one Australian Government!

[Wellsy1882]

Put another wimp on the barby

[Burnley Ace]

Put another wimp on the barby

Isn’t he the exact opposite as he’s standing up to a bullying government that is trying to extort money out of his company?

[Wellsy1882]

Isn’t he the exact opposite as he’s standing up to a bullying government that is trying to extort money out of his company?

Havent a clue. Not read into it
Not arsed either

[Gordaleman]

Isn’t he the exact opposite as he’s standing up to a bullying government that is trying to extort money out of his company?

No, the Australian government is standing up to a giant tech company that thinks it doesn't have to play by any rules at all. It's similar in a way to all these giant companies like Amazon and Starbucks that don't pay their share of tax, because although they trade in countries like the UK, all their accounting is done off shore.

It's time someone stood up to them, so well done Australia.

[Burnley Ace]

No, the Australian government is standing up to a giant tech company that thinks it doesn't have to play by any rules at all. It's similar in a way to all these giant companies like Amazon and Starbucks that don't pay their share of tax, because although they trade in countries like the UK, all their accounting is done off shore.

It's time someone stood up to them, so well done Australia.

How is the Australian government standing up to a giant tech company? What does this have to do with tax?

[Gordaleman]

How is the Australian government standing up to a giant tech company? What does this have to do with tax?

Maybe read my post again.

This doesn't have anything to do with tax. I said it was similar.

The Aussie government is saying that content generated by other companies, should be paid for, and that's right in my opinion. After all, if you produced something and it was given away by someone else, you'd soon go out of business, and that's the argument. Facebook is effectively giving away someone else's product without paying for it themselves in the first place.

[Stayingup]

Maybe read my post again.

This doesn't have anything to do with tax. I said it was similar.

The Aussie government is saying that content generated by other companies, should be paid for, and that's right in my opinion. After all, if you produced something and it was given away by someone else, you'd soon go out of business, and that's the argument. Facebook is effectively giving away someone else's product without paying for it themselves in the first place.

Yes
YouTube pays artists for every play. Surely this is tge same thing.

Its come to something if Big Tech can be bigger than a Country. I wouldn't go near Facebook or Twitter. They can be poison..

[Gordaleman]

Yes
YouTube pays artists for every play. Surely this is tge same thing.

Its come to something if Big Tech can be bigger than a Country. I wouldn't go near Facebook or Twitter. They can be poison..

Agree with you totally, yet some people think companies like Facebook, Twitter etc. are indispensable and can do no wrong, even though they sell people's info without telling them.

[Burnley Ace]

Maybe read my post again.

This doesn't have anything to do with tax. I said it was similar.

The Aussie government is saying that content generated by other companies, should be paid for, and that's right in my opinion. After all, if you produced something and it was given away by someone else, you'd soon go out of business, and that's the argument. Facebook is effectively giving away someone else's product without paying for it themselves in the first place.

That is right which is why, despite them not actually giving it away as they don’t publish it, they have stopped people posting links to “news” or news stories. So what have Facebook done that is wrong that makes you support the Aussie government?

[Gordaleman]

That is right which is why, despite them not actually giving it away as they don’t publish it, they have stopped people posting links to “news” or news stories. So what have Facebook done that is wrong that makes you support the Aussie government?

It's quite simple. Facebook is putting people in the news industry (And other industries.) at risk of losing their jobs because people are reading the news for free instead of through a paid for site.

Maybe you should look at the views of young people in Australia, most of whom seem to support their governments stance on this.

Maybe read what 'Stayingup' above has to say on the subject as well?

Facebook's argument that they don't actually publish the material is irrelavent, and is just an argument to save themselves money. If someone allowed all books to be read online for free, (Which isn't allowed without payment.) booksellers and authors would soon go out of business. It's the same principal.

[conyoviejo]

What's Facebook.? Is it anything like Jackanory?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

That is right which is why, despite them not actually giving it away as they don’t publish it, they have stopped people posting links to “news” or news stories. So what have Facebook done that is wrong that makes you support the Aussie government?

Recently I became aware that me copying and pasting a full article from The Athletic, that I've paid a subscription too, onto here was actually against the rules because I'm giving away their content for free, which in turn stops their revenue growing etc.
That opened myself up to legal action, also possibly the people who operate this site if they carried on allowing me to do it.

The basic principle is the same in regards to Facebook and news stories being posted on there for free.

Websites rely on Web searches, clicks and views along with other stuff.

[Devils_Advocate]

Recently I became aware that me copying and pasting a full article from The Athletic, that I've paid a subscription too, onto here was actually against the rules because I'm giving away their content for free, which in turn stops their revenue growing etc.
That opened myself up to legal action, also possibly the people who operate this site if they carried on allowing me to do it.

The basic principle is the same in regards to Facebook and news stories being posted on there for free.

Websites rely on Web searches, clicks and views along with other stuff.

I've looked into this a bit and I think its not the same.

Basically news companies post on Facebook to send customers to their sites. In that respect Facebook is acting like an ad company for them

It seems the Govt (under pressure from News Corp) now wants facebook to pay for hosting theses ads. Its like you wanting to advertise your business on radio but rather than paying the radio station they have to pay you.

In this respect I see that Facebooks stand against this tax is in principle correct. Where Facebook seem to have misjudged it is that they've gone OTT in blocking everything (unnecessarily) thinking they would get public support but have ended up blocking info around Covid and other important public service info which has got the backs up of the regular people.

I dont see either the Aussie govt or Facebook coming out of this the good guys but the tax the govt is trying to impose seems wrong (or badly thought out) and seems to be a play by big media corporations to increase their revenue by doing nothing at Facebooks expense

[ceborame]

'If facebook was around in the 1930's it would have allowed Hitler to publish 30 second ads on his solution to the jewish problem'

Sacha Baron Cohen

[Burnley Ace]

It's quite simple. Facebook is putting people in the news industry (And other industries.) at risk of losing their jobs because people are reading the news for free instead of through a paid for site.

Maybe you should look at the views of young people in Australia, most of whom seem to support their governments stance on this.

Maybe read what 'Stayingup' above has to say on the subject as well?

Facebook's argument that they don't actually publish the material is irrelavent, and is just an argument to save themselves money. If someone allowed all books to be read online for free, (Which isn't allowed without payment.) booksellers and authors would soon go out of business. It's the same principal.

Omg you are missing the whole point!! Facebook have said they don’t want to pay for this material and have blocked it!! It’s the USERS of Facebook that are posting the content, Facebook don’t publish it and didn’t want to control it as they aren’t publishers. The AUs gib, at the behest of Murdoch, are trying to force Facebook to pay for media content that they don’t want, haven’t requested and don’t publish so Facebook have said no thanks and blocked the sites

Now the Aus gov are whining “that’s not fair you are blocking loads of gov info sites and charity pages” want they forget to mention is that they are using Facebook sites, targeting Facebook customers for free, they also seem to forget that all these media articles have buttons to share their content on Facebook!!

[Burnley Ace]

Recently I became aware that me copying and pasting a full article from The Athletic, that I've paid a subscription too, onto here was actually against the rules because I'm giving away their content for free, which in turn stops their revenue growing etc.
That opened myself up to legal action, also possibly the people who operate this site if they carried on allowing me to do it.

The basic principle is the same in regards to Facebook and news stories being posted on there for free.

Websites rely on Web searches, clicks and views along with other stuff.

Why would it affect the site hosts as they aren’t publishing the article, you are. Why do all these media articles have a share button that specifically lets you share the story on Facebook, that’s implied consent.

[claret_in_exile]

Whereas I certainly cheer any effort to destroy or damage Facebook, the rules that the Oz government put in seem to be at odds with a free internet, so I don't like it.

[Gordaleman]

Omg you are missing the whole point!! Facebook have said they don’t want to pay for this material and have blocked it!! It’s the USERS of Facebook that are posting the content, Facebook don’t publish it and didn’t want to control it as they aren’t publishers. The AUs gib, at the behest of Murdoch, are trying to force Facebook to pay for media content that they don’t want, haven’t requested and don’t publish so Facebook have said no thanks and blocked the sites

Now the Aus gov are whining “that’s not fair you are blocking loads of gov info sites and charity pages” want they forget to mention is that they are using Facebook sites, targeting Facebook customers for free, they also seem to forget that all these media articles have buttons to share their content on Facebook!!

No, I'm not missing the point, you are. Facebook was quite happy for it's users to upload news content and generate advertising revenue for Facebook, so long as they didn't have to pay for it. Facebook makes billions out of such clicks but whines when the original publisher asks for a small part of those billions. All the Australian government is trying to do is level the playing field a little.

If Facebook is now blocking access to free government sites, which they are saying was accidental, then I'm not surprised the Aussie government is upset. If on the other hand, news sites are now being blocked, then that achieves the objective of the Aussie government as Facebook users will have to use the original news sites and pay appropriate fees.

As I said before, most Aussies appear to be on their governments side, even the young ones.

Remember, there is no such thing as a free lunch. What often appears to be free is paid for in many, diverse, often unseen and costly (Job losses for example.) ways.

[Stayingup]

What's Facebook.? Is it anything like Jackanory?

Maybe the people U40's mainly should be on Jackanory


Whatever did people do for communication and news in the past. Remember newspapers? Radio?.

[Burnley Ace]

No, I'm not missing the point, you are. Facebook was quite happy for it's users to upload news content and generate advertising revenue for Facebook, so long as they didn't have to pay for it. Facebook makes billions out of such clicks but whines when the original publisher asks for a small part of those billions. All the Australian government is trying to do is level the playing field a little.

If Facebook is now blocking access to free government sites, which they are saying was accidental, then I'm not surprised the Aussie government is upset. If on the other hand, news sites are now being blocked, then that achieves the objective of the Aussie government as Facebook users will have to use the original news sites and pay appropriate fees.

As I said before, most Aussies appear to be on their governments side, even the young ones.

Remember, there is no such thing as a free lunch. What often appears to be free is paid for in many, diverse, often unseen and costly (Job losses for example.) ways.

Facebook blocking access to free government sites? Do you mean the free Facebook pages that the Australian Gov use? Sorry I thought there was no such thing as a free lunch? No wonder they are upset, just imagine how upset they would be if Facebook started charging them for access to their pages and their customers?

If these media companies don’t want their content shared on Facebook why do they provide a share button at the start and end of each article? Facebook are quite content not to allow news stories on their site, so what is it that the Aus Gov are complaining about?

Facebooks core service doesn’t rely on news articles, only 4% of posts on Facebook are works of journalism, in fact last year Facebook sent more than 5 billion clicks to Aus publishers worth an estimated AU$407 million, whose going to be losing out of Facebook stop sending any clicks?

[Devils_Advocate]

Maybe the people U40's mainly should be on Jackanory


Whatever did people do for communication and news in the past. Remember newspapers? Radio?.

Now apply this logic to football and this forum and let us know when you're on Jackanory

[Spiral]

Imagine being such an abominable b@stard that you get into a scrap with Mark ****ing Zuckerberg and he is the more righteous of the involved parties.

Uncle Rupert doesn't like the competition, so he uses his poodles in govt to change the law in his favour. Is it just me or does nothing seem new any more?

[Gordaleman]

Facebook blocking access to free government sites? Do you mean the free Facebook pages that the Australian Gov use? Sorry I thought there was no such thing as a free lunch? No wonder they are upset, just imagine how upset they would be if Facebook started charging them for access to their pages and their customers?

If these media companies don’t want their content shared on Facebook why do they provide a share button at the start and end of each article? Facebook are quite content not to allow news stories on their site, so what is it that the Aus Gov are complaining about?

Facebooks core service doesn’t rely on news articles, only 4% of posts on Facebook are works of journalism, in fact last year Facebook sent more than 5 billion clicks to Aus publishers worth an estimated AU$407 million, whose going to be losing out of Facebook stop sending any clicks?

This is going nowhere, so let's agree to disagree. I've better things to do.

[Burnley Ace]

This is going nowhere, so let's agree to disagree. I've better things to do.

Perhaps one of the better things could be to do some research on it before posting just a suggestion.

[Gordaleman]

Perhaps one of the better things could be to do some research on it before posting just a suggestion.

I've done more than enough 'Research' on FB, which is why I don't use it.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

BBC News - Australia passes law to make Google and Facebook pay for news
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-56163550