Dyche!

[agreenwood]

And Bielsa is reportedly in the top 5/6 in terms of best paid Prem managers.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Yes, it also helps to contextualise things don’t you think?

Yes but when you consider some of the money we have spent as well.

Hendrick 10m
Brownhill 9m
Brady 9m
Wood 15m
Gibson 15m
Vydra 15m
Jay 9m

[jojomk1]

Similar to Hendrick, I can’t see Dyche trusting Brownhill at CM again after the start of this season.

CM will be high priority this summer. If there is funds

Both Westwood and Cork signed new deals this season plus Stephens and Brownhill both still under contract next year

Doubt any CM's will be coming in this summer

The fact that three of them will be in their 30's doesn't appear to matter to the manager

Future planning ?

[dandeclaret]

Nope.

Rodrigo £27m
Lorente £18m
Raphina £17m
Costa £16m
Koch £12m

The answer is yes..... but it also gives further perspective in what our own team and manager is achieving. Lads, we’ve played sides this year, where single players have t even been in the squad, despite being available, that cost more than all of our squad combined and are on about a 4
Qurrer of our total wages.

[boatshed bill]

I am merely saying if some fans would rather we were relegated and play better football as a result then that is up to them. I can see the appeal, it is really difficult to watch Burnley at the moment.

I have to admit I'd swap the drudgery (particularly with no real atmosphere) as it is now for a season challenging at the top of the Championship.

[Jakubclaret]

Spot on.

Bar a billionaire taking over, this past 6-7 years is probably as good as it gets for us. There aren’t many (read any) clubs our size/budget successfully playing attacking football in the Premier League. Now or in the last 20 years.

That might be a depressing thought, but it’s the reality. Don’t get me wrong, I get frustrated watching us at times and our transfer approach seems genuinely flawed to me, but the big picture is that we will probably be relegated at some point in the next 5 years or so. If we try and play attacking football on our budget, it’s pretty much guaranteed. Enjoy this whilst you can.

You say enjoy this whilst you can, but if this thread or plenty of others are anything to go by, some people are clearly not enjoying this whilst some people are, that’s why some people are disagreeing about this that & the other.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Both Westwood and Cork signed new deals this season plus Stephens and Brownhill both still under contract next year

Doubt any CM's will be coming in this summer

The fact that three of them will be in their 30's doesn't appear to matter to the manager

Future planning ?

If I’m honest I think we will try and ship out at least two of them. With at least a new one to come in hopefully two.

[agreenwood]

Yes but when you consider some of the money we have spent as well.

Hendrick 10m
Brownhill 9m
Brady 9m
Wood 15m
Gibson 15m
Vydra 15m
Jay 9m

The time frames are different. Those players came in over a 4-5 year period. Leeds’ list was far more recent.

You’re judging Leeds on their recent signings and Burnley’s performances now on signings made years ago. Two of those players aren’t currently at the club.

We’ll also ignore the fees you’ve inflated by several million.

[Rileybobs]

Yes but when you consider some of the money we have spent as well.

Hendrick 10m
Brownhill 9m
Brady 9m
Wood 15m
Gibson 15m
Vydra 15m
Jay 9m

Leeds bought those players, and more, in a single transfer window. Most of the players you’ve listed have played for us for years, inspiring Hendrick who has since left.

What it does show is what quality of player you will generally get for sub £20m, and it isn’t the type that’s going to be a huge upgrade on what we’ve got.

[boatshed bill]

I f I was chairman I'd be a bit peeved at the waste of money on Gibson and Vydra (who until we had injury problems never got a look in).

[Newcastleclaret93]

The time frames are different. Those players came in over a 4-5 year period. Leeds’ list was far more recent.

We’ll also ignore the fees you’ve inflated by several million.

I think the fees are pretty spot on.

regardless of that fact we have still spent a hell of a lot of money. Obviously it is not comparable with other teams which is why we play the way we do.

Let’s hope we can spend some more money this summer and get some real quality in.

[Targetman]

Did we pay £15m for Vydra?

[Grumps]

Yes but when you consider some of the money we have spent as well.

Hendrick 10m
Brownhill 9m
Brady 9m
Wood 15m
Gibson 15m
Vydra 15m
Jay 9m

Not sure vydra was that much

[Newcastleclaret93]

Leeds bought those players, and more, in a single transfer window. Most of the players you’ve listed have played for us for years, inspiring Hendrick who has since left.

What it does show is what quality of player you will generally get for sub £20m, and it isn’t the type that’s going to be a huge upgrade on what we’ve got.

Yes very very true. We need to be spending some large sums if we want to improve the quality of the team.

[Rileybobs]

Yes very very true. We need to be spending some large sums if we want to improve the quality of the team.

Large sums that we’re very unlikely to ever have.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Not sure vydra was that much

Both undisclosed fees but rumoured to be circa them fees.

[agreenwood]

You say enjoy this whilst you can, but if this thread or plenty of others are anything to go by, some people are clearly not enjoying this whilst some people are, that’s why some people are disagreeing about this that & the other.

Indeed, but it’s about what’s realistic. It’s realistic to ask the club to be more proactive in the transfer market and have more decent depth in the squad. We’ve penny-pinched for too long. There’ll be a limit to that, but clearly we need to improve on the recruitment side.

I don’t think it’s realistic to expect an overhaul of the playing philosophy unless you’re willing to take the hit of relegation. Losing football is losing football. I’m not sure a more attacking philosophy is any easier to stomach if you’re losing most weeks.

[Dark Cloud]

I have absolutely loved our time under Dyche (bar the latter half of his first season) He's head and shoulders the best manager we've ever had and in my almost 60 years watching The Clarets, he's given me the most pleasure. It's almost never pretty, but it's pragmatic and it's an approach which got us to the top table where I never in a million years thought we'd ever reach and it's kept us there. I LOVE the fact that we won't pay inflated prices or wages and that we turn average, hard working players into PL ever presents and I also love watching us defend for our lives, surrender 70%/30% possession and still grind out a win and I really, really don't want us throwing £30 million at some over hyped foreign type who scored 3 goals in 40 appearances in the French league, but doesn't fancy a cold, windy day at The Turf in February. I dread the day when SD leaves our club, because more than any player and more than Garlick, Sean is responsible for where we are and what we have enjoyed over the past 7/8 years. Today was bloody awful to watch and MIGHT have been lifted, like so many games, if we'd somehow sneaked a winner, but we didn't. it wasn't his fault and I don't blame him, but he really does need to change things big style in the Summer IF we are still in a position to do so!!!

[agreenwood]

Both undisclosed fees but rumoured to be circa them fees.

I thought Vydra was rumoured to be £10m, Jay £5m and Brownhill £6-7m.

I think you’ve inflated those fees.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I thought Vydra was rumoured to be £10m, Jay £5m and Brownhill £6-7m.

I think you’ve inflated those fees.

Possibly are inflated but few of the papers etc... rumoured that Vydra was 11m upfront with add ons because I believe at the time that Leeds had a bid rejected for 11m without add ons.

Brownhill was much closer to 9m according to Bristol fans but if he was less than that’s not too bad.

[DomBFC1882]

I thought Vydra was rumoured to be £10m, Jay £5m and Brownhill £6-7m.

I think you’ve inflated those fees.

Truth is if you believe our fees were inflated then the same could be said about Leeds transfers

[cricketfieldclarets]

Crikey, you must be really old fashioned if you don't believe we could play expansive football against a 10 man West Brom side, sitting 19th in the PL. You've beat me there.

It's funny you should mention the trenches, as I'm hearing we're all being called up to serve next week.

Of course we can. We did just that last week. The reality is we won’t do it every week.

How do you think wba fans feel after today’s effort? They were abysmal in front of goal.

[jojomk1]

If I’m honest I think we will try and ship out at least two of them. With at least a new one to come in hopefully two.

Best of luck

Who would take guys well past their use by date

[Bigvince]

A classic over reaction thread, slightly different from last Saturday nights posts after the mauling we handed out to Crystal Palace!

[ksrclaret]

Of course we can. We did just that last week. The reality is we won’t do it every week.

How do you think wba fans feel after today’s effort? They were abysmal in front of goal.

The point is we very, very rarely play expansive football. And in any case, I'm not even that interested in playing "expansive football". I recognise the need for a side likes ours to defend as a compact unit. What I do expect is us to be able to keep hold of the ball and show some degree of technique against a 10 man WBA side. That way, we may have been able to create some chances against them. The way we are on the ball has been really poor for the most part this season (yes, Palace excepted).

[cricketfieldclarets]

The point is we very, very rarely play expansive football. And in any case, I'm not even that interested in playing "expansive football". I recognise the need for a side likes ours to defend as a compact unit. What I do expect is us to be able to keep hold of the ball and show some degree of technique against a 10 man WBA side. That way, we may have been able to create some chances against them. The way we are on the ball has been really poor for the most part this season (yes, Palace excepted).

But that’s what it is like as a Burnley fan. We don’t always pick apart teams that we should when the onus is on us. Then other times we will play like last week. Or sucker punch a top side.

Fans on here sound like the spoilt fans of other clubs we often mock.

[ksrclaret]

But that’s what it is like as a Burnley fan. We don’t always pick apart teams that we should when the onus is on us. Then other times we will play like last week. Or sucker punch a top side.

Fans on here sound like the spoilt fans of other clubs we often mock.

We clearly have different views on what we as Burnley fans can realistically expect. I don't think it's unfair to ask that we show ability on the ball, even when we play poorly.

[Rumbletonk]

I'm 49 and other than a couple of half seasons the football has been crap. I watch this bloke manage Burnley and beat the best in the Premier League on a regular basis.

Today was absolutely shocking but i wouldn't bet against us next week. Today was crap, really crap. The majority aren't though

[Jakubclaret]

But that’s what it is like as a Burnley fan. We don’t always pick apart teams that we should when the onus is on us. Then other times we will play like last week. Or sucker punch a top side.

Fans on here sound like the spoilt fans of other clubs we often mock.

If passion & pride is shown for the jersey irrespective of defeat people do tend to make allowances for that, I think over 90% of the posters are quite reasoned & rational when discussing the club.

[MACCA]

So with the players available how should he have set up?

To win...

Hatch a plan to maybe get some shots on target and test the worst team in the league.
They had 10 men for over an hour, and the fact is you could have been the WBA keeper.
They average 2.5 goals against per game, yet we have drawn a blank against them TWICE

We set up to not lose, yet when the game got handed to us to go and take it we didnt
We persisted with hoof after hoof, aimless ball after aimless ball.
We were fortunate in the end to nick a point, I dont want to think what might have been should they have kept 11 men on the field

Back to back home games and a chance to secure our premier league status for another season and we set up, and serve up that dross.

[Les Lawrence]

Fact is we haven't improved our squad in the last 2 seasons,just giving contract extensions to players who are getting older.Were not moving forward,were going backwards,and will eventually get relegated ,Due to lack of investment in team

[Woodleyclaret]

When you are on the Turf watching dross teams stifle us you are stuck having paid your money.
Now just pick up the remote and watch Saturday Night Shite with the Poisoned Geordies if you really want to feel depressed

[Leisure]

To win...

Hatch a plan to maybe get some shots on target and test the worst team in the league.
They had 10 men for over an hour, and the fact is you could have been the WBA keeper.
They average 2.5 goals against per game, yet we have drawn a blank against them TWICE

We set up to not lose, yet when the game got handed to us to go and take it we didnt
We persisted with hoof after hoof, aimless ball after aimless ball.
We were fortunate in the end to nick a point, I dont want to think what might have been should they have kept 11 men on the field

Back to back home games and a chance to secure our premier league status for another season and we set up, and serve up that dross.

Why do people frequently blame the manager when we don't win games that they think we should win? I'm sure that he would have lived to have won the game. So you don't put any fault/responsibility on the players for having no shots on target, poor decision making by them, pi** poor passing etc? How can that be the manager's fault?? So you say that he didn't set up to win, so just how should he have set up?

[Jimmymaccer]

Some people really need to sit down for a couple of hours and think before going on a Footy forum


15 games in 6 weeks with a threadbare squad ... playing a team fighting for its PL survival in sh*te windy conditions...

I am not trying to make excuses ... it was a terrible game against a terrible team played in terrible conditions ... at least it wasn't totally a terrible result.

Get a grip, go have a beer, calm down ... and enjoy the fact we now have 8 days off to get a few bodies back on the team.

The problem was it drove me to have too much beer last night and fell out with the Mrs..........!!! I actually think it’s worse just watching at home rather than being at the match........no other match experience during the day like travel, seeing my son, seeing mates, yes, watching a dire performance but then having a beer after with my son then going home.....

Yesterday it was just look out of the window watching the rain...........then that dire attempt at impersonating a professional football team.....then beer.....then a row....

Can’t wait till we’re allowed back........whatever division we’re in....

[BleedingClaret]

It was poor IMO that when it seemed that both McNeil & Brownhill were instructed to push more central so Lowton and Taylor could overlap and it was obvious that Dwight is so 1 footed that he just runs across the pitch and either gets caught in possession or passes backwards that we simply had to swap their wings then both of them could cut in on their best foot and both can shoot.
Or even a change of formation McNeil central in behind Jay & Vyds with Brownhill in a more central 3 with Westwood and Cork 4312
These changes may not have worked either but at least it would come across as guile or attempt to use your craft

442 pump up the ball when you clearly have two forwards that want it in to feet is so poor and too rigid and predictable

20 to 30 more years of this

[MACCA]

Why do people frequently blame the manager when we don't win games that they think we should win? I'm sure that he would have lived to have won the game. So you don't put any fault/responsibility on the players for having no shots on target, poor decision making by them, pi** poor passing etc? How can that be the manager's fault?? So you say that he didn't set up to win, so just how should he have set up?

Course the players need to take responsibility, some blame can also be layed at the door of MG for neglecting the team for 18 months.

However Mr Dyche gives the teams instructions, they follow them, constantly kicking the ball high and long in those conditions for 93 minutes wasnt working.
So like he said after the villa win and Brighton draw, he changed the shape, approach and style, and it paid off,
when it comes off he tells us what he did and we all praise it, what did we try differently yesterday when it wasnt working?
So just like the praise and acknowledgement when a change works, questions get asked when theres was no change in style or formation

[BenWickes]

Why do people frequently blame the manager when we don't win games that they think we should win? I'm sure that he would have lived to have won the game. So you don't put any fault/responsibility on the players for having no shots on target, poor decision making by them, pi** poor passing etc? How can that be the manager's fault??

Quite agree. Dyche cannot legislate for virtually the entire team, pretty much our strongest available XI; totally underperforming. At the best of times we struggle against ten men because of our system/how we set up. It was clear from the start that even our more reliable players just weren't at it. It was a lethargic performance and when WBA went down to ten men I knew it was going to be a long, long afternoon.
Dyche can prepare his players all he wants but if they can't do the basics right, and to a man they couldn't yesterday; there's little Dyche could do. Even more so looking at the limited options available on the bench due to injuries.

[Right_winger]

Why do people frequently blame the manager when we don't win games that they think we should win? I'm sure that he would have lived to have won the game. So you don't put any fault/responsibility on the players for having no shots on target, poor decision making by them, pi** poor passing etc? How can that be the manager's fault?? So you say that he didn't set up to win, so just how should he have set up?

To be frank and fair here this type of performance/scenario under this manager isn’t a one off it happens fairly regularly. The players have been assembled by this manager. He has overseen this squad in his time here. He doesn’t ever change things up never has done and never will do. Our tactics are plug and play same week on week out, the only variable is the opposition and depending on how they set up/play/perform is how we perform.

This manager is responsible for what we are seeing in the pitch. It will not change until we get a new manager which hopefully won’t be too far in the distant future. He’s way beyond his shelf life with us now and we both need a change.

[BleedingClaret]

The problem was it drove me to have too much beer last night and fell out with the Mrs..........!!! I actually think it’s worse just watching at home rather than being at the match........no other match experience during the day like travel, seeing my son, seeing mates, yes, watching a dire performance but then having a beer after with my son then going home.....

Yesterday it was just look out of the window watching the rain...........then that dire attempt at impersonating a professional football team.....then beer.....then a row....

Can’t wait till we’re allowed back........whatever division we’re in....

I’m currently locking, literally, myself in the bedroom to watch our games and the Missus is keeping an eye on the result to judge what my mood will be when I re-appear.
Last night I just went downstairs grabbed a bottle of red, said nowt and downed it in half an hour and then opened another, all seemed a bit better then, but I noticed that she didn’t mention that she’d taped MOTD, she knew I was boiling away under the surface of quiet drunken calm.

[Leisure]

Course the players need to take responsibility, some blame can also be layed at the door of MG for neglecting the team for 18 months.

However Mr Dyche gives the teams instructions, they follow them, constantly kicking the ball high and long in those conditions for 93 minutes wasnt working.
So like he said after the villa win and Brighton draw, he changed the shape, approach and style, and it paid off,
when it comes off he tells us what he did and we all praise it, what did we try differently yesterday when it wasnt working?
So just like the praise and acknowledgement when a change works, questions get asked when theres was no change in style or formation

That doesn't explain how you say that he supposedly set up to not lose instead of win. Please explain how he did that and what he should have done? And I'm pretty sure that he didn't give instruction to miss-pass nearly every other ball! But we could only draw against a team fighting for their lives and who Man Utd struggled to draw against last week, so let's have a go at the manager and MG!

[BleedingClaret]

Why do people frequently blame the manager when we don't win games that they think we should win? I'm sure that he would have lived to have won the game. So you don't put any fault/responsibility on the players for having no shots on target, poor decision making by them, pi** poor passing etc? How can that be the manager's fault?? So you say that he didn't set up to win, so just how should he have set up?

I think he needed to swap McNeil & Brownhill wings for a start, Dwight looked awkward turning in on his weak foot and either got caught in possession or passed backwards.

I know you get frustrated on games when people are relentlessly negative but I have to say, although admittedly we’re badly hampered by injuries, but we are set up too predictably and we seem to play the same game with two in to feet type strikers as we do with 2 bigger men up front.
Dyche does have to take some of the blame for the rigidity and predictability of our play.

[Leisure]

To be frank and fair here this type of performance/scenario under this manager isn’t a one off it happens fairly regularly. The players have been assembled by this manager. He has overseen this squad in his time here. He doesn’t ever change things up never has done and never will do. Our tactics are plug and play same week on week out, the only variable is the opposition and depending on how they set up/play/perform is how we perform.

This manager is responsible for what we are seeing in the pitch. It will not change until we get a new manager which hopefully won’t be too far in the distant future. He’s way beyond his shelf life with us now and we both need a change.

So with the squad we have and the run of injuries we have, you feel that another manager would get them playing better? Really! Can you let me know who that might be?

[Leisure]

I think he needed to swap McNeil & Brownhill wings for a start, Dwight looked awkward turning in on his weak foot and either got caught in possession or passed backwards.

I know you get frustrated on games when people are relentlessly negative but I have to say, although admittedly we’re badly hampered by injuries, but we are set up too predictably and we seem to play the same game with two in to feet type strikers as we do with 2 bigger men up front.
Dyche does have to take some of the blame for the rigidity and predictability of our play.

Hi Dave - Hope you're keeping well and not missing the away trips too much? Yes, I suppose he could of swooped them but that wouldn't have had any effect on the cra* passing. Dwight can't use his right foot so he's never going to get behind the full back on the right and get a cross over. Don't know why he kept drifting inside instead if going down the touchline.

[BleedingClaret]

That doesn't explain how you say that he supposedly set up to not lose instead of win. Please explain how he did that and what he should have done? And I'm pretty sure that he didn't give instruction to miss-pass nearly every other ball! But we could only draw against a team fighting for their lives and who Man Utd struggled to draw against last week, so let's have a go at the manager and MG!

To be honest Pete with all the mis passes and poor set pieces and poor crosses I was thinking that we must be training in doors when the weathers inclement it was like they were surprised every time the wind either took the ball quicker or held it up, and yes you can’t blame Dyche for experienced players not judging the wind when weighting a pass or a cross

[BleedingClaret]

Hi Dave - Hope you're keeping well and not missing the away trips too much? Yes, I suppose he could of swooped them but that wouldn't have had any effect on the cra* passing. Dwight can't use his right foot so he's never going to get behind the full back on the right and get a cross over. Don't know why he kept drifting inside instead if going down the touchline.

You know I’m missing the away trips!

[MACCA]

So with the squad we have and the run of injuries we have, you feel that another manager would get them playing better? Really! Can you let me know who that might be?

Sam Allardyce managed to instruct the worst team in the league, who struggle defensively, with only 10 men, to totally shut us out, nullify us to no shots on target, and still create 2 golden chances to win the game.

So I'd say a different manager would and could have approached it differently.

Swap McNeil and Brownhill, go 433, try 352 or 343

And if so many were having really bad off days, make a sub FFS
Benson has starts to his name, I'm sure he could have at least run around for 25 mins looking busy and putting sum urgency into it.
If Brownhill was struggling out wide, put Lowton further up and bring Bardles on.
Just try something.

Instead we sat in then hoof after hoof hoping for some luck or a mistake somewhere, and were fortunate to scrape a point

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Sam also has only one win since the end of January..

Plus his team have played less games than we have recently so they're not as fatigued as our lot.

[Right_winger]

So with the squad we have and the run of injuries we have, you feel that another manager would get them playing better? Really! Can you let me know who that might be?

Spectacularly missing the point. The squad we have is down to manager, it’s his squad.

As for playing any better, we easily play the worst football in the league and have done for a number of years. We couldn’t do much worse. I haven’t seen much worse than what we regularly play under Dyche.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Spectacularly missing the point. The squad we have is down to manager, it’s his squad.

As for playing any better, we easily play the worst football in the league and have done for a number of years. We couldn’t do much worse. I haven’t seen much worse than what we regularly play under Dyche.

It's effective though, even you must see that.

[Right_winger]

It's effective though, even you must see that.

It is in a just about enough kind of way but we are stuck in a rut which is becoming bigger and bigger.

Something has to change.