Clarets Fan Survey

[Cirrus_Minor]

Actually managed to complete this after it crashed 3 times and it failed to acknowledge completion.

[Leisure]

Not a huge number. But the system is there for the ones that do sell out. Equally, if there aren't many selling out then people shouldn't be too worried about changes to the system, it works both ways.

But if changes to the system results in more fans qualifying for tickets, then some fans are still going to miss out for the popular games. Again just to reiterate. I'm not against changes/tweeks being made to the system, especially to address the problem of parents who have enough points but their child/children don't.

[Leisure]

Now is the time to change the system for allocation of away fixtures by points. Now, because it will not need to be used, but will ensure fairness for say an FA Cup run next season and Wembley appearance. Use the Englandfans model for loyalty points say over a 4/5 year period, every season ticket gains points, every away fixture attended gains points, you can then publish how many fans are in each group. If you didn't have a season ticket but went to say 10 away games you could build up enough points to have a greater priority for an away ticket than someone with a season ticket who never goes to any away games but wants Aberdeen away in Europe. Or of course stick to the current system and I am personally ok as I have a guarantee due to my season ticket but my grandson can't ever catch up with my loyalty points.

Don't see how changes to the system will ever allow your grandson to catch up with your loyalty points, unless you stop accumulating them.

[jrgbfc]

Some people go on as though it's impossible to get hold of away tickets, when the reality is we only sell out about 2 games a season.
I agree a rolling points system would be fairer, but for the most popular games there's always somebody going to be disappointed.

[wilks_bfc]

Don't see how changes to the system will ever allow your grandson to catch up with your loyalty points, unless you stop accumulating them.

Don’t think it’s a case of “catching up” though

If dad has been building up points by having a ST and going to away games, then his son gets a ST, dad is then in a position of either risk waiting to get his away ticket until goes on general sale so son can also go, or get his ticket and go without the son

I’m not sure what the answer is tbh

[Leisure]

Don’t think it’s a case of “catching up” though

If dad has been building up points by having a ST and going to away games, then his son gets a ST, dad is then in a position of either risk waiting to get his away ticket until goes on general sale so son can also go, or get his ticket and go without the son

I’m not sure what the answer is tbh

Agree but that was the issue which vinrouge mentioned. Yes, I'm aware of the issue that you highlight. As I mentioned in an earlier post, a system similar to Watford's whereby they reserve 10% of tickets (where practical/depending on the allocation which they receive) for such situations may help address the issue. And there is no answer which will satisfy everyone and guarantee everyone a ticket.

[Leisure]

Not a huge number. But the system is there for the ones that do sell out. Equally, if there aren't many selling out then people shouldn't be too worried about changes to the system, it works both ways.

But if you change the system just to make access easier to tickets for more people for the most popular games, then you just end up with even more people scrambling for the same number of tickets. You'll then have some fans who wouldn't have got tickets before the system was changed may get them but at the expense of some fans who would have got them if the system hadn't been changed.

[MACCA]

Regards away tickets, as long as none season ticket holders and/or fans of other teams can get hold of some to join us on our days out for the big games, that's the main thing.

Just because they dont attend Turf or really support us, doesnt mean the cant come a good boozy away day/trip

Aberdeen, old Trafford, Spurs and chelsea etc wouldn't have been the same without them, made some great memories.

[Chester Perry]

But if you change the system just to make access easier to tickets for more people for the most popular games, then you just end up with even more people scrambling for the same number of tickets. You'll then have some fans who wouldn't have got tickets before the system was changed may get them but at the expense of some fans who would have got them if the system hadn't been changed.

I don't go on matches these days, but reading all this it sounds like the real problem is the rule that allows clubs to charge the visiting club for all the tickets they take, not the ones that they sell, hence the not taking the full allocation issue - no doubt this was done at the behest of the bigger clubs who feel they can sell all the additional seats (at full face value) not the reduced fixed away pricing.

In respect of even reduced allocations not being sold, there may be the issue that many families no longer even try for away tickets because they do not have the necessary time between ticket confirmations and travel arrangements. It is a vicious circle that could cost the game away fans in future generations and we know from the rebates that broadcasters place a value on fans (of both teams) at games to provide the atmosphere.

[Devils_Advocate]

Regards away tickets, as long as none season ticket holders and/or fans of other teams can get hold of some to join us on our days out for the big games, that's the main thing.

Just because they dont attend Turf or really support us, doesnt mean the cant come a good boozy away day/trip

Aberdeen, old Trafford, Spurs and chelsea etc wouldn't have been the same without them, made some great memories.

Agree with this as a few years ago I was working in Manchester when we played the Tuesday night game that ended 2-2. I barely went on a game that season but I would have been very upset had I not been able to get a ticket.

Luckily if you know enough people you can always get a ticket and on on this occasion a supporters group gladly obliged.

[Leisure]

I don't go on matches these days, but reading all this it sounds like the real problem is the rule that allows clubs to charge the visiting club for all the tickets they take, not the ones that they sell, hence the not taking the full allocation issue - no doubt this was done at the behest of the bigger clubs who feel they can sell all the additional seats (at full face value) not the reduced fixed away pricing.

In respect of even reduced allocations not being sold, there may be the issue that many families no longer even try for away tickets because they do not have the necessary time between ticket confirmations and travel arrangements. It is a vicious circle that could cost the game away fans in future generations and we know from the rebates that broadcasters place a value on fans (of both teams) at games to provide the atmosphere.

Hi Chester - The issue of away clubs having to pay for the total allocation which they take does have an adverse effect on the problem but this arrangement only applies at some clubs and not others. At some clubs such as Burnley, for safety/access reasons, it's not practical for them to sell any unsold seats in the away section to home fans and, therefore, away clubs wouldn't be charged for unsold tickets. However, at most clubs where it is possible for them to sell the untaken away seat allocations to home fans, then yes, the away club has to pay for all tickets based on a ratio of adult/junior/senior tickets that they actually sell. This has led to Burnley taking reduced allocations at quite a number of games over the past couple of seasons eg Everton, Liverpool, Newcastle and West Ham, and this has contributed to fans complaining that they couldn't get tickets. Obviously the club has to operate as a business and they don't want to unnecessarily lose money but to me they have aired too much on the cautious side when deciding what allocations to take for some games.

[vinrogue]

Just to add clarity, the system runs for 4 years (in Englandfans it used to be between World Cups) at the end of the 4 years it resets and the existing members carry forward a number of points into the next period. This carry forward would allow you in the next period to get an away ticket if the first game was Real Madrid away, however if it was Hartlepool and you didn't go but your grandson went he would be a step closer to you on the points table. You don't carry forward much more than what you would accumulate in 4 or 5 away games, thus someone who goes to the lesser away fixtures based on popularity will catch up the supporter who only ever goes to Bayern Munich away. Publishing how many supporters are in each points group allowed you to know that if say Scotland away had 6,000 tickets and 80% went on points you would need to be in the top 4,800 to guarantee a ticket and the others would be allocated by ballot. Many years ago the system in Englandfans worked for me as I got one of the 350 tickets for Lichtenstein away based on loyalty of away games attended during that loyalty period.

[MACCA]

Agree with this as a few years ago I was working in Manchester when we played the Tuesday night game that ended 2-2. I barely went on a game that season but I would have been very upset had I not been able to get a ticket.

Luckily if you know enough people you can always get a ticket and on on this occasion a supporters group gladly obliged.

Absolutely, Liverpool and Man Utd "fans" joined us in Aberdeen and said it was fantastic trip and we still reminisce to this day.
They've been on half a dozen trips now when it's been "sold out" to anyone without a season ticket and 5k points... yet they get a ticket whenever they want.

[Grumps]

Agree with this as a few years ago I was working in Manchester when we played the Tuesday night game that ended 2-2. I barely went on a game that season but I would have been very upset had I not been able to get a ticket.

Luckily if you know enough people you can always get a ticket and on on this occasion a supporters group gladly obliged.

You've got to think he's probably trying to wind people up......... Supporters groups surely wouldn't do that.... Would they?

[Devils_Advocate]

You've got to think he's probably trying to wind people up......... Supporters groups surely wouldn't do that.... Would they?

No wind up, they often have people who got tickets intending to go then nearer the time cant and so they help them sell them on. I arranged mine a couple of days before a met the coach organiser outside the ground to get the ticket and give him the cash

Its not hard if you know who to ask

[JohnMac]

I love playing Sport but unfortunately too old, fat and knackered.

I answered NO.

[Grumps]

No wind up, they often have people who got tickets intending to go then nearer the time cant and so they help them sell them on. I arranged mine a couple of days before a met the coach organiser outside the ground to get the ticket and give him the cash

Its not hard if you know who to ask

I'd heard it was normally inside the pub..... Perhaps the club need to sort out what these supporters clubs do with tickets before they look at changing the loyalty system.

[Devils_Advocate]

I'd heard it was normally inside the pub..... Perhaps the club need to sort out what these supporters clubs do with tickets before they look at changing the loyalty system.

To be fair to the supporters clubs they may just be doing someone a favour so a ticket doesnt go to waste. If I had a ticket and suddenly couldnt go the guys who run the away coaches will have the best contacts to make sure someone gets it, are easy for people to find and meet and can therefore help me get my money back

The other option is where random fans stand outside the away turnstiles with their mates spare ticket hoping someone needs one which you also see

[Elizabeth]

Yeh DA but you wouldn’t have any friends to pass your ticket on to

[JohnMac]

"That really isnt how football works, especially in the EPL. Most wont have a 2nd team, and those that do, would have one in the lower league not the same one"

Having 'Two teams' is heresy

[Devils_Advocate]

Yeh DA but you wouldn’t have any friends to pass your ticket on to

True they all support decent teams

[ŽižkovClaret]

Having 'Two teams' is heresy

Sure, we know this.......

Then again, BFC and BFC Women?

[JohnMac]

Sure, we know this.......

Then again, BFC and BFC Women?

I suppose so since there is no longer a Central League

[Jimmymaccer]

Haven’t read all of this but I probably do 5 - 10 away trips a season.......season ticket for years, trips to Newport etc blah blah blah.......I’d be mightily ****** off if some Premier League follower gets tickets and not me when they’d be the first to abandon ship when if we were to return to the championship.......

[Dark Cloud]

I'm still waiting for mine to arrive!! Is it like the Covid jabs, all the over 90's first???

[Grumps]

To be fair to the supporters clubs they may just be doing someone a favour so a ticket doesnt go to waste. If I had a ticket and suddenly couldnt go the guys who run the away coaches will have the best contacts to make sure someone gets it, are easy for people to find and meet and can therefore help me get my money back

The other option is where random fans stand outside the away turnstiles with their mates spare ticket hoping someone needs one which you also see

Seems to happen every big game.. Must be a lot of fans who suddenly Carnt go to these games. The people they are passed on to... Do they have the correct number of points? If it is such a big problem perhaps there should be an easy way for these unwanted tickets to be returned to the club, for resale to qualifying fans.

[Devils_Advocate]

Seems to happen every big game.. Must be a lot of fans who suddenly Carnt go to these games. The people they are passed on to... Do they have the correct number of points? If it is such a big problem perhaps there should be an easy way for these unwanted tickets to be returned to the club, for resale to qualifying fans.

I cant help you there as I havent got a clue about most of that stuff. All I know is that if there's a game I fancy going on then no matter how big the game is I am pretty confident I can always get hold of a ticket

[Elizabeth]

You run supporters coaches ,you need to fill them . You ain’t going to do that with a pure as the driven snow ticket policy .

[clarethomer]

To me, you can't get fairer than the current way. If you have the points and don't go, you are not stealing a seat from anyone else. If you have the points and do go, it's deserved for your long-standing commercial relationship with the club.

I do think they should allow children linked to adult STs to also access the Adult's priority allocation providing the ticket is non-amendable and therefore can't be used to be upgraded to another adult etc.

A solution that may work is having a membership scheme for those fans who want to fast-track their way up the allocation.

Let's say that the first allocation rules stay the same but you could get into the 2nd allocation by paying an annual fee (£200 as an example)

The membership scheme could be limited in numbers of say 250-500 and you are required to attend 80% of away games for that season. If you fail to attend 80% you will be charged for every game you miss over this.

BFC would generate a minimum of 50-100k additional with this scheme and would allow these numbers to be considered within the tickets they buy off the away club so could potentially allow for more tickets to be bought without being out of pocket.

If you were on this scheme you would be as guaranteed as any other fan in the 2nd allocation to get a ticket.

[aggi]

But if changes to the system results in more fans qualifying for tickets, then some fans are still going to miss out for the popular games. Again just to reiterate. I'm not against changes/tweeks being made to the system, especially to address the problem of parents who have enough points but their child/children don't.

Well the threshold would be adjusted so it's still the same number of fans qualifying for tickets, just not necessarily the same ones as before.

Personally I'd view points expiring as a tweak. Even when it's introduced it won't impact people for a few years, if at all.

[Leisure]

Well the threshold would be adjusted so it's still the same number of fans qualifying for tickets, just not necessarily the same ones as before.

Personally I'd view points expiring as a tweak. Even when it's introduced it won't impact people for a few years, if at all.

Which threshold are you referring to? Also, if it's the same number of fans and presumably some new fans are qualifying, then doesn't that mean that some fans who are qualifying now won't then qualify? How would you be suggesting that expiring points is done ie over what period?

[aggi]

Which threshold are you referring to? Also, if it's the same number of fans and presumably some new fans are qualifying, then doesn't that mean that some fans who are qualifying now won't then qualify? How would you be suggesting that expiring points is done ie over what period?

The loyalty points thresholds. 6,000 seems to be the current highest one. You'd adjust that threshold so it contains the same number of people. Some existing fans would end up going down a tier, others would go up.

Personally I'd say something like up to three years back counts as full points, four years back counts half and five years back as 20%.

The club have access to the full data so could make an informed decision.

[Spike]

It is an interesting one but I don't think we can complain at ST or m'day prices.

We can if they go up!

[Spike]

I’m just wondering how many people have selected “other” and then entered a load of garbage rather than something constructive

I highlighted the first team investment in “other” to be specific

Me too!

[Spike]

Why is it 'preferable' to become cashless?
have contactless payments by all means, but why have an option for supporters to elect to remove cash? What's the advantage to anyone?

We did have cash in the bank!
If rumours are correct we are now cashless!

[Leisure]

The loyalty points thresholds. 6,000 seems to be the current highest one. You'd adjust that threshold so it contains the same number of people. Some existing fans would end up going down a tier, others would go up.

Personally I'd say something like up to three years back counts as full points, four years back counts half and five years back as 20%.

The club have access to the full data so could make an informed decision.

Could work but as far as I know the club have never made public just how many people are in the different points categories and their IT systems don't seem to be the best! But if they are to consider making any changes to the system, I'd suggest that they firstly need to be very clear on just what they are hoping to achieve and to be prepared to have some upset fans if they lose points. Whatever they do, at the end of the day some fans will be happy and others won't (which is the situation now) and there'll still be some fans who miss out on tickets for the more popular games or where they only take a small allocation. You can please some of the fans some of the time but you can't please all of the fans all of the time!

[Targetman]

I'm still waiting for mine to arrive!! Is it like the Covid jabs, all the over 90's first???

You always seem to be getting digs in at elderly people.
Do you have a problem with people over a certain age?

[Garnerssoap]

It was years before I realised that Blue Peter's "sticky backed plastic" actually meant sellotape.

No Way

[MACCA]

I very much doubt we will be selling out many if any away games in the near future, and if we do, I doubt it will be to those purely in the over 6k points bracket.

Its becoming the norm now these premier league away games, and the cost, entertainment value, style, kick off times and time taken up to attend start to have an effect on numbers.

Even the ex premier league champions down the road who were pulling games of 25k, were only taking 500-600 fans to Liverpool, Everton, Man United and Man City towards then end of their time in the sun.

The same will happen here, it will revert to roughly our championship away followings, and that's when they wasn't the option to watch it at home on TV.

[Grumps]

You run supporters coaches ,you need to fill them . You ain’t going to do that with a pure as the driven snow ticket policy .

I wonder what the organisers think of your comment......I think its Completely wrong, if as a season ticket holder you Carnt get a ticket, yet someone who knows the right person can get one, irrespective of their ticket/points status

[duncandisorderly]

Why not have two pools of points, one for home and away?
Home points accrue when you buy a season ticket and/or tickets for home games, away points when you buy for away games, pooled together in the event we get to a final of some kind.

I hardly go to away games, maybe two or three in the last five years, but have enough points to get a ticket for any game I want which hardly seems fair. By the same token, if a burnley fan from Surrey takes my seat for his first home game in a decade in the Champions League Quarter Final home leg against Real Madrid I'd be really cheesed off.

Now is the perfect time to do it because no one can attend games. Reset all points to Zero and for next season give priority to season ticket holders and begin the points process from the season after based on which fans have attended which games.

[Devils_Advocate]

Some very good points Duncan but I think their maybe should be some weighting to those who have kept their money in the club through this Covid period and not asked for refunds on their season tickets

[Bordeauxclaret]

Are people saying Supporters Clubs are handing out tickets to anyone?

[NottsClaret]

Surprised how much the loyalty points / ticket allocation thing comes up. How many times has anyone missed out on a ticket? I don't know anyone 'in the know' at the club or have any contacts with supporters clubs but always get a ticket for any away game I've wanted to go to.

Seems to be a lot of time and effort going into thinking up systems which suit them personally. But to be honest, watching Burnley, it's very, very rare you'll miss out on a ticket if you really want to see them. We're not following Man United in the 90s here.

[MACCA]

Are people saying Supporters Clubs are handing out tickets to anyone?

Yes, but of course if someone has had a skin full Friday night, or any other serious reason and cant make the game, yet has booked a coach space and ticket, and doesnt make it on the day, then the supporters clubs and organisers will obviously try and pass it on to someone so they A. Dont lose money, and B. A seat is left untaken when it could have been taken by another supporter.

[Rileybobs]

Surprised how much the loyalty points / ticket allocation thing comes up. How many times has anyone missed out on a ticket? I don't know anyone 'in the know' at the club or have any contacts with supporters clubs but always get a ticket for any away game I've wanted to go to.

Seems to be a lot of time and effort going into thinking up systems which suit them personally. But to be honest, watching Burnley, it's very, very rare you'll miss out on a ticket if you really want to see them. We're not following Man United in the 90s here.

I pretty much agree with this, although I do think that a system could be put in place for a small percentage of tickets to be put aside and made available for children to accompany adults who have the required number of loyalty points.

[Grumps]

Yes, but of course if someone has had a skin full Friday night, or any other serious reason and cant make the game, yet has booked a coach space and ticket, and doesnt make it on the day, then the supporters clubs and organisers will obviously try and pass it on to someone so they A. Dont lose money, and B. A seat is left untaken when it could have been taken by another supporter.

And this happens every big game? Maybe fans should start staying in on a Friday night

[djemba-djemba]

All sounds a bit dodgy to me. These fans with points probably buy tickets with no intentions of going to some of them knowing their pal who runs the coaches can shift them on and they keep their points high to ensure they can go to the games they want!

[Grumps]

All sounds a bit dodgy to me. These fans with points probably buy tickets with no intentions of going to some of them knowing their pal who runs the coaches can shift them on and they keep their points high to ensure they can go to the games they want!

When this issue has been discussed it has always been denied it happens, yet someone on this thread has admitted buying tickets from a supporters group, and could do it for any game. The rumours have always been there

[Devils_Advocate]

When this issue has been discussed it has always been denied it happens, yet someone on this thread has admitted buying tickets from a supporters group, and could do it for any game. The rumours have always been there

Just to clarify my original comment was not aimed at supporters clubs but just that generally there's always a way to find a ticket and more often than not for me it has nothing to do with supporters club.

As you thought I was potential on the wind up I just gave a real example to show how it happens and that example included a a supported clubs.

I would guess as I dont know for sure that as Macca points out the supporters clubs are either being let down so need to sort it out at short notice or are just making sure that a ticket gets used rather than sat in someones house in Burnley

How you police people letting their mates use their points or manage situations where peoples circumstances change at short notice is not easy and will probably end up causing a lot more hassle and hard work than the small benefit it might produce.