Brownhill

BOYSIE31 · Post by **BOYSIE31** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:46 pm

Thoughts please

For me seen enough now to show that he is not good enough for this level.

A player who looks good in the championship but out of his depth at this.

Decent squad player maybe.

clarethomer · Post by **clarethomer** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:48 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:46 pm
Thoughts please

Put the line away.

Local cricketer · Post by **Local cricketer** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:49 pm

Runs around a lot and can’t pass a ball. I agree

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:51 pm

He gets stuck in and works hard, gives everything, however when you play two in midfield they have to want the ball, and use it effectively when they get it. Would agree a squad player but not a starting PL central midfielder (at least not YET)

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:52 pm

He's not done too badly in his first full season in the PL. plenty of time to develop his game.
So would we prefer Xhaka?

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:52 pm

Better in the middle.

Not Westwood's best ever game either, which didn't help.

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:54 pm

I think he will grow into the team. More to come from him further up the field once he gets more confidence that he can do it at this level.

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:56 pm

boatshed bill wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:52 pm
He's not done too badly in his first full season in the PL. plenty of time to develop his game.
So would we prefer Xhaka?

Are you seriously suggesting you would have Brownhill over Xhaka?

Brownhill is ok, not good enough for this league but still a useful player to have around the squad. Might benefit from a loan to a club that plays a similar way to us.

I actually think CM has got to be high on the priority list this summer. All of our CMs need improving on.

KlyBfc · Post by **KlyBfc** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:57 pm

I thought he was good today. He is suffering as Wood earlier in the season by people’s perceptions / memories of certain incidents in a game. To me people will remember him playing a stray pass but then ignore his excellent tracking and stealing of the ball from saka as they looked odds on scoring, that’s just one example.

I had him as better than Westwood (who I like) who put numerous poor crosses in and played an awful lot of passes that were to his man but just behind them ie. JBG that caused him to slow down or check back which the led to attacks breaking down or us moving the ball back to the defence. However what shouldn’t be overlooked is both worked and presses incredibly hard and were not dominated by a midfield that contained two 30million pound plus midfielders and a man from Real Madrid

gawthorpe_view · Post by **gawthorpe_view** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:58 pm

Interceptions, according to Sky Sports he has the highest interception rate in the Premier League.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:59 pm

I don't think any of our midfield options are really good enough with the ball but they fit the system of a workhorse midfield. Westwood is a very launch into channel and hope type passer, gives up the ball an awful lot but he makes up for his lack of passing ability in his corner delivery, work rate, leadership and defensive work. Cork looked a really neat player when we had him on loan at a young age, hes shown he has the ability to score goals, but he doesn't score often. Another who works really hard without much production offensively. Stephens is along way from fitness, looks League One level to me.

Brownhill Cork and Westwood are all pretty similar, defensive work horses with leadership qualities and very little forward playing ability. (all 3 captains at other clubs).

burnley007 · Post by **burnley007** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:00 pm

I quite like him

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:00 pm

I would say Dyche and his staff have improved 80% of the players in their time here, let's not write him off yet BUT had the previous board given him 20 million to spend in that window instead of 6 (ish) I doubt we would have signed him.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:06 pm

Why do we always need scapegoat?

Leisure · Post by **Leisure** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:11 pm

The post just deleted was very disrespectful!. Well done Mods.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:13 pm

Excellent player. Who at the end of last season was vital and this season has shown he’s more than good enough for us and this level.

We’ve just taken points at home off arsenal and he was a key part of that team.

The new Hendrick clearly.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:14 pm

Just took my original post down of which was diogratory towards the lad. Josh gives 100% and and deserves our support. I hope he devolops into a top Premier league midfield player

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:15 pm

Leisure wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:11 pm
The post just deleted was very disrespectful!. Well done Mods.

I didn’t need the mods I deleted it myself.

Agree it was disrespectful

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:16 pm

Same old repeated comments. There's already a thread on him here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=53592&p=1515075&hil ... l#p1515075
And here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=51958&p=1450196&hil ... l#p1450196
And here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=49987&p=1376620&hil ... l#p1376620
And here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48015&p=1304626&hil ... l#p1304626
And here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44960&p=1200546&hil ... l#p1200546

Why create new threads just to discuss the same thing over and over again, may as well just copy and paste what others have already said.

bf2k · Post by **bf2k** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:21 pm

superdimitri wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:16 pm
Same old repeated comments. There's already a thread on him here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=53592&p=1515075&hil ... l#p1515075
And here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=51958&p=1450196&hil ... l#p1450196
And here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=49987&p=1376620&hil ... l#p1376620
And here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48015&p=1304626&hil ... l#p1304626
And here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44960&p=1200546&hil ... l#p1200546

Why create new threads just to discuss the same thing over and over again, may as well just copy and paste what others have already said.

Hey up, the duplicate thread police have turned up.

ClaretMat · Post by **ClaretMat** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:22 pm

I like him, he covered the most ground of everyone on the pitch today and made a couple of vital interventions. Room to improve on the ball though, some poor pass selection today, and I think that's perhaps the issue generally. Instinctive one or two touch game is very good but trying to control the game/play an incisive pass is where he falls down a little.

bf2k · Post by **bf2k** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:23 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:13 pm
Excellent player. Who at the end of last season was vital and this season has shown he’s more than good enough for us and this level.

We’ve just taken points at home off arsenal and he was a key part of that team.

The new Hendrick clearly.

People can have an opinion on a player you know?

As for the new Hendrick...maybe that's because he's constantly being played out of position like Hendrick did. However, I agree he a good squad player to have but not good enough really for this level.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:25 pm

bf2k wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:21 pm
Hey up, the duplicate thread police have turned up.

Not police, just common sense and using the search function. It literally took me a few seconds.
Just search before you post, its that simple. Now if someone wants to find a post about Brownhill they have to wade through about 10 threads on the same topic. Pointless.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:31 pm

Good engine but his use of the ball is really poor. Some way behind Cork and Westwood yet for me. Hopefully the more he plays at this level that side of his game will improve.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:34 pm

The point that still somehow gets ignored in every single discussion about our centre midfield is that the central midfielders are outnumbered in just about Every. Single. Game. in this league; not by accident or because of tactical incompetence, but just because it's how we set up to play with two 'proper' strikers. Folk look at other midfielders at other clubs playing in a three and expect whichever individuals playing in our midfield-two to do the same job as someone from another team with an extra man over us covering his own much smaller pocket of the pitch. Then we've got the fact that a lot of teams play one centre half higher than we'd ever dream of doing which crowds out the centre of the pitch even more. I'm no happy clapper, and measured criticism is perfectly acceptable, but maybe some folks have a tactical blindspot in their criticisms of our centre midfielders, because this theme of our midfielders apparently being not-PL quality seems to be consistent, despite our sustained success under this system.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:37 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:56 pm
Are you seriously suggesting you would have Brownhill over Xhaka?

Brownhill is ok, not good enough for this league but still a useful player to have around the squad. Might benefit from a loan to a club that plays a similar way to us.

I actually think CM has got to be high on the priority list this summer. All of our CMs need improving on.

Actually, yes I would. I have never seen Xhaka have a game that suggests he is worth what he costs.
I think he's an over-rated winker, if truth were told.

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:39 pm

jrgbfc wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:31 pm
Good engine but his use of the ball is really poor. Some way behind Cork and Westwood yet for me. Hopefully the more he plays at this level that side of his game will improve.

And what did people say about Westwood in his first season. Then he went on to become our POTY so maybe we just need to leave him alone and let a clearly talented lad develop.

BOYSIE31 · Post by **BOYSIE31** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:41 pm

Spiral wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:34 pm
The point that still somehow gets ignored in every single discussion about our centre midfield is that the central midfielders are outnumbered in just about Every. Single. Game. in this league; not by accident or because of tactical incompetence, but just because it's how we set up to play with two 'proper' strikers. Folk look at other midfielders at other clubs playing in a three and expect whichever individuals playing in our midfield-two to do the same job as someone from another team with an extra man over us covering his own much smaller pocket of the pitch. Then we've got the fact that a lot of teams play one centre half higher than we'd ever dream of doing which crowds out the centre of the pitch even more. I'm no happy clapper, and measured criticism is perfectly acceptable, but maybe some folks have a tactical blindspot in their criticisms of our centre midfielders, because this theme of our midfielders apparently being not-PL quality seems to be consistent, despite our sustained success under this system.

I agree outnumbered and we should play 5 in there against the big teams but it's his lack of passing forward ie assists zero and goals none - in the championship he would have probably bagged 6 or 7 by now as we know he has a shot on him

Rumpelstiltskin · Post by **Rumpelstiltskin** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:45 pm

He gives everything.He works so hard.I think he loves it at Burnley.He does sometimes misplace a pass but give the lad a break.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:46 pm

superdimitri wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:25 pm
Not police, just common sense and using the search function. It literally took me a few seconds.
Just search before you post, its that simple. Now if someone wants to find a post about Brownhill they have to wade through about 10 threads on the same topic. Pointless.

But to be fair it’s only like having chapters in a book, new threads are easier to follow for those who say, want to build up a profile of them over the seasons as research on fan reactions etc. They wander off enough at the time often and get so diluted that the topic is left behind. As I often come on here to catch gossip... I may read latest comments but then want to see the opening gambit is much easier with multiple threads.

Boss Hogg · Post by **Boss Hogg** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:46 pm

Agree with OP. Thought he was finding his feet to begin with and had odd glimpses of something. Probably a very good Championship player but found wanting at this level. He gives 100% effort but lacking real quality, goals and assists.

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:46 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:46 pm
Thoughts please

For me seen enough now to show that he is not good enough for this level.

A player who looks good in the championship but out of his depth at this.

Decent squad player maybe.

Great form today.

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:49 pm

boatshed bill wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:37 pm
Actually, yes I would. I have never seen Xhaka have a game that suggests he is worth what he costs.
I think he's an over-rated winker, if truth were told.

He’s certainly not the best midfielder but he has played over 150 games for arsenal and averages a goal contribution every 6.3 games. He is better than any of the CMs at our club by some distance. Only one that comes close to him in recent times is Defour.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:52 pm

NewClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:46 pm

Great form today.

Some posters you just know instinctively what they are about, and it is all the better for it than some of the nasty baiting we get on here, sometimes.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:53 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:41 pm
I agree outnumbered and we should play 5 in there against the big teams but it's his lack of passing forward ie assists zero and goals none - in the championship he would have probably bagged 6 or 7 by now as we know he has a shot on him

As I see it, if we completely gave up hoofball we could afford to go with one striker, even play a 4-3-3.
But while we still depend in part on knocking it up to be scrapped for it's a bit much to ask one forward to chase everything. Also our pressing would be less effective.
So, if we played any sort of 5 in midfield, given the quality we have would we be able to work the ball well enough to feed a lone striker, and would we have enough quality in midfield to get up and support him?

Hedontplayforyou · Post by **Hedontplayforyou** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:54 pm

He will grow into our side, would be perfect in a 3 which gives us options. Has his qualities for certain, but needs to use the ball better

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:55 pm

Spiral wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:34 pm
The point that still somehow gets ignored in every single discussion about our centre midfield is that the central midfielders are outnumbered in just about Every. Single. Game. in this league; not by accident or because of tactical incompetence, but just because it's how we set up to play with two 'proper' strikers. Folk look at other midfielders at other clubs playing in a three and expect whichever individuals playing in our midfield-two to do the same job as someone from another team with an extra man over us covering his own much smaller pocket of the pitch. Then we've got the fact that a lot of teams play one centre half higher than we'd ever dream of doing which crowds out the centre of the pitch even more. I'm no happy clapper, and measured criticism is perfectly acceptable, but maybe some folks have a tactical blindspot in their criticisms of our centre midfielders, because this theme of our midfielders apparently being not-PL quality seems to be consistent, despite our sustained success under this system.

I would agree he is part of a midfield that is quite often overran I suspect how he is playing is pretty much dictated to him and is how Dyche wants him play. Won’t be making any judgement on him until next season when I think we will start to see a more attacking side to his game.

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:59 pm

Spiral wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:34 pm
The point that still somehow gets ignored in every single discussion about our centre midfield is that the central midfielders are outnumbered in just about Every. Single. Game. in this league; not by accident or because of tactical incompetence, but just because it's how we set up to play with two 'proper' strikers. Folk look at other midfielders at other clubs playing in a three and expect whichever individuals playing in our midfield-two to do the same job as someone from another team with an extra man over us covering his own much smaller pocket of the pitch. Then we've got the fact that a lot of teams play one centre half higher than we'd ever dream of doing which crowds out the centre of the pitch even more. I'm no happy clapper, and measured criticism is perfectly acceptable, but maybe some folks have a tactical blindspot in their criticisms of our centre midfielders, because this theme of our midfielders apparently being not-PL quality seems to be consistent, despite our sustained success under this system.

I just don’t understand this theory. So Cork and Westwood can pass the ball in a midfield two but Brownhill can’t?

The argument isn’t about the formation and tactics it’s about whether Brownhill has the quality to be a premier league CM, I don’t think he has shown anything to suggest he does. Good player to have around the squad because he try’s his hardest but unfortunately just not good enough.

Il say it again CM has to be a priority this summer. Westwood and Cork can’t keep performing.

BOYSIE31 · Post by **BOYSIE31** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:00 pm

JarrowClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:55 pm
I would agree he is part of a midfield that is quite often overran I suspect how he is playing is pretty much dictated to him and is how Dyche wants him play. Won’t be making any judgement on him until next season when I think we will start to see a more attacking side to his game.

But what's going to change next season ??

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:02 pm

elwaclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:46 pm
But to be fair it’s only like having chapters in a book, new threads are easier to follow for those who say, want to build up a profile of them over the seasons as research on fan reactions etc. They wander off enough at the time often and get so diluted that the topic is left behind. As I often come on here to catch gossip... I may read latest comments but then want to see the opening gambit is much easier with multiple threads.

I don't find it hard to search an existing thread and read the dates.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:02 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:00 pm
But what's going to change next season ??

I'd suggest that still depends on which division we are in.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:05 pm

Seriously far too early to make any sort of judgement on Brownhill. I think he has done better than I hoped he would so far. I think he shows a hell of a lot of promise and time will make him a very very good player, that will reap the rewards of his battle to fit in among world stars at this stage of his career.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:05 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:49 pm
He’s certainly not the best midfielder but he has played over 150 games for arsenal and averages a goal contribution every 6.3 games. He is better than any of the CMs at our club by some distance. Only one that comes close to him in recent times is Defour.

Fair enough.
But he's been our best player twice lately. We can't afford to loose him (obviously I mean Xhaka, not Brownhill

)

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:17 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:00 pm
But what's going to change next season ??

Just think he will kick on he will learn a lot from this season and I suspect when we get crowds back that will help him as well.

Anyway it is just a personal opinion, not seen any of this seasons games fully if honest but saw enough in the games at the end of last season. If I’m wrong I’m wrong it doesn’t matter

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:18 pm

Brownhill was just fine today. Westwood certainly wasn’t any better and in fact has been one of our poorer players lately.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:21 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:59 pm
I just don’t understand this theory. So Cork and Westwood can pass the ball in a midfield two but Brownhill can’t?

The argument isn’t about the formation and tactics it’s about whether Brownhill has the quality to be a premier league CM, I don’t think he has shown anything to suggest he does. Good player to have around the squad because he try’s his hardest but unfortunately just not good enough.

Il say it again CM has to be a priority this summer. Westwood and Cork can’t keep performing.

Disclaimer: I love Westwood. Now then, this is the kind of thing that cannot be proven, but I'm convinced that those goals Westwood scored from corners granted him a certain leniency, because fans then look at this hypothetical potential for him to score, even though he's hardly scored from open play for us. And this fiction about a player's contribution matters because in the case of Westwood, his passing isn't particularly special, and certainly not significantly superior to Brownhill's to the extent that Westwood should be considered PL calibre and Brownhill not. I've stated on previous Brownhill threads that his passing can be a bit sloppy, but if such a deficiency is to be held against Brownhill to declare him not fit for this league, then so too should Jack Cork's aggression and goalscoring record be held against him. But that's nonsense, of course, because clubs like ours can't afford complete players; we survive by playing to the strengths of those we have, and we utilise Brownhill for his energy. This makes him useful to this side in our league season, and thus, PL quality.

timel0veandtendayi · Post by **timel0veandtendayi** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:30 pm

In truth it looks like we have a very very good defensive midfielder. Not quite what I expected when we signed him but he certainly has enough about him to do well for us at this level. We ask a lot of our two central midfielders when they're often up against a three, so when we do win the ball in the middle, we rarely have an easy pass to use and have to shift the ball quickly, so he does lose it more than he should. I agree it's something for him to improve on but the criticism seems unfair.

KlyBfc · Post by **KlyBfc** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:36 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:41 pm
I agree outnumbered and we should play 5 in there against the big teams but it's his lack of passing forward ie assists zero and goals none - in the championship he would have probably bagged 6 or 7 by now as we know he has a shot on him

And yet Vydra (a striker) has scored 1 premier league goal in 12 months, are we going to dispute his contribution today too!

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:00 pm

Big step up for Brownhill and put in and moved around a lot and early.

Very good player for the price. He will improve.

Burnley1989 · Post by **Burnley1989** » Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:02 pm

I’m a fan, not the finished article but I genuinely like the lad, works hard, shows... I think he will develop and more importantly our 3rd best CM