Wood, a better player these days without Barnes?

[jdrobbo]

...a suggestion I made on a thread about six or seven weeks ago, where I dared to suggest that despite Barnes playing better than Wood at the time (which he clearly was), that it would actually be Barnes who I’d drop and partner with Vyds or Jay, as I truly believe the aforementioned pair, bring out the better qualities in our main goal threat.

I took a lot of stick for it at the time (‘disgusting’ and ‘disgraceful’ were two of the comments aimed at me)... so much so that the thread eventually got pulled, but just felt it was worth a further discussion.

It’s hard to drop a player who is playing well and unfortunately, it was an injury to Ash (who I certainly believe has a place as a plan B in our setup) that forced the change. However, I truly believe that Vydra has brought out the very best in Wood and they now have the makings of what could be a very effective partnership.

Of course, I still welcome opposing opinions on the subject.

Up the Clarets and best wishes all.

J

[Devils_Advocate]

Its not exactly sticking your neck out to suggest Wood should be ahead of Barnes in the pecking order.

You also have a Barnes and Wood thread you like to bump whenever they play well together so if you back every horse in the race then you're always going to have a winning ticket to show everyone

[bobinho]

Sorry J, no opposing opinion here, i'm absolutely convinced you are right. I just hope it continues and when the inevitable barren spell/poor form happens it is given the same amount of time to turn around as anyone else would get/have got.

Vydra's recent contributions have been recognised by his national coach, so maybe he will pick a goal or two up whilst away, and come back buzzing.

Wood is our main goal threat for sure, but i believe Vyds can also chip in once they have had time to work together in the pressure pot that is real game time at the top level.

Some folk on here have their favourites, that's normal, but they sometimes can't see the wood for the trees...

[JarrowClaret]

...a suggestion I made on a thread about six or seven weeks ago, where I dared to suggest that despite Barnes playing better than Wood at the time (which he clearly was), that it would actually be Barnes who I’d drop and partner with Vyds or Jay, as I truly believe the aforementioned pair, bring out the better qualities in our main goal threat.

I took a lot of stick for it at the time (‘disgusting’ and ‘disgraceful’ were two of the comments aimed at me)... so much so that the thread eventually got pulled, but just felt it was worth a further discussion.

It’s hard to drop a player who is playing well and unfortunately, it was an injury to Ash (who I certainly believe has a place as a plan B in our setup) that forced the change. However, I truly believe that Vydra has brought out the very best in Wood and they now have the makings of what could be a very effective partnership.

Of course, I still welcome opposing opinions on the subject.

Up the Clarets and best wishes all.

J

At least you got a response! Anyway if disgusting and disgraceful were the worst comments I don’t understand why the thread was pulled. As to your point I would probably agree they are probably to Samey to play together regularly anymore. I they are both decent players at this level and certainly add something but Vydra does look to be Woods best partner currently.

[Zom Zom]

Some can't see the Wood for the Barnes...

[Erasmus]

It's certainly the case that Chris Wood's form has improved in the last few games, but I think it's difficult to establish a single causal factor. One obvious point is that the team as a whole is playing much better, and a striker will inevitably benefit from that. Wood has had a season interrupted by injuries and he may well have been struggling to get fully fit. On Saturday he really looked sharp and in peak fitness. I think that, along with the whole team playing well, may be the most significant factor.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Wood does what he always does and if he's along side Barnes he has to play a different way to how he would with Vydra, so differences in play will be seen that's all.

[tiger76]

On present evidence Vydra/Wood is our best pairing, however both Ash and Jay have plenty to offer from the bench.

But ATM I wouldn't change either of the front 2, even if and when Barnes & Jay Rod are fit, the whole side is playing well, and a lot of that is down to our front players and their pressing, but we have created so many good chances in the last month, and arguably could have won even more points than we have, so if Ash and Jay want to force their way back into the side they'll have to earn their place, and that's how it should be.

[jdrobbo]

That was started prior to us qualifying for Europe, as you well know. I have no qualms with you offering it to the discussions but you could indicate how much I have been (and continue to be) a fan of Barnes over the years. At the time (then and in the following season), I was very much in favour of that partnership, because of how we set up. I believe that things have moved on since then. Things go stale and two to three years is a long time in this game. Strangely though, you play Devils Advocate, so I don’t expect you to agree, or even admit to the truths I’ve just laid out.

Best wishes

[jdrobbo]

At least you got a response! Anyway if disgusting and disgraceful were the worst comments I don’t understand why the thread was pulled. As to your point I would probably agree they are probably to Samey to play together regularly anymore. I they are both decent players at this level and certainly add something but Vydra does look to be Woods best partner currently.

Think it was more a case of people taking shots at one another and the thread totally going off topic.

[Rileybobs]

I don’t understand this fascination with making out that one of our strike partnerships is so much more effective than the other. Wood and Vydra have played well together for a few games now as have Wood & Barnes, and Wood and Rodriguez in the past. No doubt in a few months time for one reason or another we will be starting a different forward pair.

Barnes and Rodriguez played together when we beat Palace 3-0 in perhaps our most comprehensive performance this season.

Wood and Vydra have certainly complemented each other in the past few games, but I’d say Wood’s resurgence is more a result of the team’s positive attacking intent, and the fact that he now looks fully fit, which he certainly didn’t prior to his spell out of the side.

[Burnley1989]

I like all our strikers, they’re not all going to be in form at the same time, I’m happy enough with all 4 to be honest.

Wood & Vydra look great but I’ve no doubt Barnes or Jay will be back in at some point and do a good job

[Devils_Advocate]

That was started prior to us qualifying for Europe, as you well know. I have no qualms with you offering it to the discussions but you could indicate how much I have been (and continue to be) a fan of Barnes over the years. At the time (then and in the following season), I was very much in favour of that partnership, because of how we set up. I believe that things have moved on since then. Things go stale and two to three years is a long time in this game. Strangely though, you play Devils Advocate, so I don’t expect you to agree, or even admit to the truths I’ve just laid out.

Best wishes

Im not going to derail the thread but you were bumping the Barnes / Wood thread last season so hardly 2 or 3 years ago. I guess Barnes record since you last bumped it was that bad there's not much you could say.

I've no doubt when this partnership goes through its bad times you'll start a thread about you new favourite flavour of the month idea . Dont get be wrong thats fair enough but for me you just state the bleeding obvious most of the time and have a simple populist view.

Still thats my two-penneth so i'll leave you all too it

[IWOODLOVETT]

Agreed, jrobbo.

Leicester, Arsenal and Everton have all been put on the back foot by the slight change in our attack. They’ve each been totally blinkered by that tired old quote by the media “you always know what you will get from Burnley”.

The Woodra partnership contradicts this assumption and teams, that have trained for (and are set up to cope with) the long ball/knock on attack, have been totally caught out.

Our defence of course has remained the same, solid formation but the attack now has a mobile target man with a clever runner providing the options, which McNeil and Gudmundsson are enjoying and which the central midfield two understand.

Lowton is also now getting in on the act, as will Taylor when he returns.

Good viewing.
UTC

[boatshed bill]

Wood is a better player when McNeil is on top form.
Something that used to p*** me off when Barnes and Wood played together was the way they both headed off to a very similar position when we were attacking, particularly if we had the ball on the right hand side of the pitch. Perhaps that was the instruction, perhaps they are a bit too similar.

[Quickenthetempo]

Wood or Barnes will play better with Vydra or Jay Rod when he's on form as the latter two look to set their partners up as well as score.

Wood and Barnes first instinct is to shoot and ask questions later.

[jdrobbo]

Im not going to derail the thread but you were bumping the Barnes / Wood thread last season so hardly 2 or 3 years ago. I guess Barnes record since you last bumped it was that bad there's not much you could say.

I've no doubt when this partnership goes through its bad times you'll start a thread about you new favourite flavour of the month idea . Dont get be wrong thats fair enough but for me you just state the bleeding obvious most of the time and have a simple populist view.

Still thats my two-penneth so i'll leave you all too it

Cracking post. Speak soon.

[jdrobbo]

I don’t understand this fascination with making out that one of our strike partnerships is so much more effective than the other. Wood and Vydra have played well together for a few games now as have Wood & Barnes, and Wood and Rodriguez in the past. No doubt in a few months time for one reason or another we will be starting a different forward pair.

Barnes and Rodriguez played together when we beat Palace 3-0 in perhaps our most comprehensive performance this season.

Wood and Vydra have certainly complemented each other in the past few games, but I’d say Wood’s resurgence is more a result of the team’s positive attacking intent, and the fact that he now looks fully fit, which he certainly didn’t prior to his spell out of the side.

Fair enough. In my defence, if I may, I don’t think I’ve ever had a fascination (your words) with a forward lineup, apart from the Woods / Barnes one that I banged on about when Dyche was tending to only favour starting one of them (when we played with Defour).

Devils is well within his right to say that he thinks I state the bleeding obvious but my point was...I was suggesting dropping Barnes when he was getting match ratings by many of 7,8 and 9s but keeping Wood in the side, when at the time, he was only getting 4,5 and 6s. My point was...he’s our main goal threat and he should always play if fit.

[IWOODLOVETT]

Wood is also seems not caught offside so often in this arrangement because Vydra is making more of the runs and is better equipped to beat the trap.

Wood is now the only target man and it was noticeable in the Everton game that defenders Were aware of our dead-ball threat and had clearly been instructed to stand off him, not to give free-kicks away by clattering into him.

As a result Wood has now more time to control and direct his knock-ons.

[dougcollins]

The rest did him good - Wood looks fitter than he has for some time. Looks quicker too.

[jdrobbo]

Wood is also seems not caught offside so often in this arrangement because Vydra is making more of the runs and is better equipped to beat the trap.

Wood is now the only target man and it was noticeable in the Everton game that defenders Were aware of our dead-ball threat and had clearly been instructed to stand off him, not to give free-kicks away by clattering into him.

As a result Wood has now more time to control and direct his knock-ons.

This is true.

[jdrobbo]

The rest did him good - Wood looks fitter than he has for some time. Looks quicker too.

No arguments there.

[Rileybobs]

Fair enough. In my defence, if I may, I don’t think I’ve ever had a fascination (your words) with a forward lineup, apart from the Woods / Barnes one that I banged on about when Dyche was tending to only favour starting one of them (when we played with Defour).

Devils is well within his right to say that he thinks I state the bleeding obvious but my point was...I was suggesting dropping Barnes when he was getting match ratings by many of 7,8 and 9s but keeping Wood in the side, when at the time, he was only getting 4,5 and 6s. My point was...he’s our main goal threat and he should always play if fit.

I wasn’t particularly referring to you having a fascination, just that generally I’ve seen a lot of comments saying that Wood is playing better because of Vydra which to be honest I don’t really think is the case. Wood looks much fitter and sharper and the team is playing a lot more offensively.

Pretty much every combination of our strikers have formed a good partnership over a small number of games in the past. I think Wood and Vydra have played 3 successive games together now so it would be a bit knee jerk to say that this partnership definitely trumps the other options.

My point is that after our next poor run of form, which won’t be far away, the forward line will probably change and no doubt people will be on here saying x and x are now our best partnership.

Like I referred to, It wasn’t long ago after hammering Palace that people were saying that Rodriguez and Vydra was our best pairing.

[ClaretTony]

Vydra's recent contributions have been recognised by his national coach, so maybe he will pick a goal or two up whilst away, and come back buzzing.

Not quite. He was in the national team earlier in the season when he wasn’t in our first team.

Vydra & Wood have been excellent in recent games but last month Barnes & Rodriguez were, particularly at Palace.

For me, if all four are fit it’s Wood who is the definite pick. Right now that’s with Vydra but he does need to start adding some goals.

[jdrobbo]

Agree. It’s Wood (plus one). If fit, Wood plays for me.

[ClaretTony]

Agree. It’s Wood (plus one). If fit, Wood plays for me.

Every time

[Bosscat]

Agree. It’s Wood (plus one). If fit, Wood plays for me.

[Jakubs Tash]

Wood is certainly playing very well at the moment and I’m glad Vydra is getting a proper run of games. I just hope he can get a run until the end of the season now - even when others are fit - and he can find the net a few times.

There was a really good example of what Vydra can bring to the team v Everton. In the second half he made a run down the inside right channel and got onto a slide rule pass. Tight to the line he twisted and turned and, although he ended up playing back to Brownhill and didn’t manage to go past the defender on this occasion, he was trying to attack the defender and take him on. NONE of our other 3 senior strikers have this in their locker. Vydra’s touch, skill and low centre of gravity gives a different threat/dimension to the team as an attacking force.

[Pstotto]

He needs Barnes to support him and some roof slates...

[milkcrate_mosh]

Wood is also seems not caught offside so often in this arrangement because Vydra is making more of the runs and is better equipped to beat the trap.

Wood has been offside at twice the rate in games he's started with Vydra compared to ones he hasn't. Probably because we're turning people over higher up the pitch and trying to counter more if I had to guess.

[Colburn_Claret]

...a suggestion I made on a thread about six or seven weeks ago, where I dared to suggest that despite Barnes playing better than Wood at the time (which he clearly was), that it would actually be Barnes who I’d drop and partner with Vyds or Jay, as I truly believe the aforementioned pair, bring out the better qualities in our main goal threat.

I took a lot of stick for it at the time (‘disgusting’ and ‘disgraceful’ were two of the comments aimed at me)... so much so that the thread eventually got pulled, but just felt it was worth a further discussion.

It’s hard to drop a player who is playing well and unfortunately, it was an injury to Ash (who I certainly believe has a place as a plan B in our setup) that forced the change. However, I truly believe that Vydra has brought out the very best in Wood and they now have the makings of what could be a very effective partnership.

Of course, I still welcome opposing opinions on the subject.

Up the Clarets and best wishes all.

J

Wood is certainly looking better, and Vyds is doing a good job, but it's the change in mantra that had helped both.
Getting the ball on the deck, running at players, and getting bodies in the box. Imo Chris and Ash would both have looked better had we played that way when they were partnered.
I'd agree that we need Vyds pace as we're lacking in that department, but it's which came first the chicken or the egg. Its the change in style not the change in partner that's helped.

[claretburns]

Wood and Vydra look like potentially a great partnership, that if we need to chase the game late on bring on Barnes to bully tired defenders and win free kicks in good positions for chances on goal or crosses into the box.

[Conroy92]

Wood has been offside at twice the rate in games he's started with Vydra compared to ones he hasn't. Probably because we're turning people over higher up the pitch and trying to counter more if I had to guess.

I'd like to see the stats that show this as I don't think he's been offside as much in the last few games.

[RalphCoatesComb]

On present evidence Vydra/Wood is our best pairing, however both Ash and Jay have plenty to offer from the bench.

Jay and Ash coming off the bench works for me. They offer different options.

Pity that one of our strikers isn't good enough to play right midfield. Wood, Vyds and Barnes works for me.

[rob63]

Think it was more a case of people taking shots at one another and the thread totally going off topic.

Really?? I've never heard of such a thing happening before

[rob63]

Wood is a better player when McNeil is on top form.
Something that used to p*** me off when Barnes and Wood played together was the way they both headed off to a very similar position when we were attacking, particularly if we had the ball on the right hand side of the pitch. Perhaps that was the instruction, perhaps they are a bit too similar.

Agree with that Bill, it seems to be a tactic at goalkicks now too, everyone heads to one flank or the other leaving a massive area open on the other.

[NottsClaret]

I'd tend to agree with Rileybobs sentiment here. The front four are all decent. None are below our standard, none are going to be attracting too much interest from elsewhere.

In fact, you could go through the whole side and pretty much give 6-7 out of 10 for all of them. There's a huge drop off once you leave the 'first team' lads and look onto the bench but we're debating about marginal differences in how you rotate the main players.

[milkcrate_mosh]

I'd like to see the stats that show this as I don't think he's been offside as much in the last few games.

Here

5 offsides in his 4 starts with Vydra (Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and Everton) or 1.25 a game. He's got 15 in his other 24 appearances which is 0.625.

To be fair 4 of those appearances were as a sub so we can remove those for parity and its 15 in 20 or 0.75 per game

[pushpinpussy]

im sure we have been here before and the OP just wont let it drop. Stop spreading negativity. All our forwards are as important as each other . you have an unbelievable obsession here. Please log into my account again and edit where appropriate to suit what you think i should have have responded.

[jdrobbo]

Never once been negative; merely expressed an opinion. Instead, you’ve gone round calling me a ‘prick’ and accused me on at least five occasions of editing your posts.

I agree that all the forwards are important. They all have a role and are very well respected by me. I just felt that Barnes should be dropped ahead of Wood and you got personal about it before making accusations which are just untrue. I have absolutely no issue with you disagreeing, but feel that being called a prick is taking it too far. Likewise, I understand you being annoyed if you say your post was edited in reference to me, but for goodness sake, please stop accusing me of doing it, just because it was on my thread.

[houseboy]

Wood and Vydra are THE combination. Jayrod has skill and can score some great goals. Barnes should only be in the team if there are injuries. I have said all of this for a long time. Barnes has been a good servant I agree but he is past his sell by date and he has resorted to even more cheating, which makes it even stranger that Dyche should keep playing him. I do believe that Vyds is one of the main reasons for Wood’s return to form.

[superdimitri]

That was started prior to us qualifying for Europe, as you well know. I have no qualms with you offering it to the discussions but you could indicate how much I have been (and continue to be) a fan of Barnes over the years. At the time (then and in the following season), I was very much in favour of that partnership, because of how we set up. I believe that things have moved on since then. Things go stale and two to three years is a long time in this game. Strangely though, you play Devils Advocate, so I don’t expect you to agree, or even admit to the truths I’ve just laid out.

Best wishes

The only game he plays is trolling. I'd stick his posts on ignore if I were you.

[Claret Till I Die]

Might be trying to suck eggs here but I know of a partnership from the 60s that used to walk around a penalty area after training and throw a ball up into the air and decide who was going to go where when it was coming back down.
I don't think it did them any harm....

[CaptJohn]

Strangely enough I find that a team that has Wood, Vyds, JBG and McNeil is possibly our best attacking option. You have three ball players and one decent, mobile target man. Everton certainly didn't know how to handle them and add in the energetic midfield of Westy and Josh and it's a formidable formation going forward. The issue here is whether Dyche wants to attack all the time. One of our best attacking displays of the season was the 2nd half at Leeds and I believe that Stephens was part of that playing in an advanced role.
Get all the players fit during this break and we'll see what Dyche has in mind. Certainly a fit Jay and Barney is a big plus, even if it's from the bench.

[jdrobbo]

Agree with this, although I’d definitely have Cork in my eleven, despite Westy and Brownhill playing so well at Everton. I think he’s our best central midfielder.

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Agree that if fit Wood and Cork should both be in the starting eleven .
Imho

[burnleytom]

Whether it’s playing with Vydra, or Brownhill off, the last 5 games (or even more) have proved conclusively this is the case.

[Belgianclaret]

The influence and importance of a good Jack Cork should not be underestimated

[jdrobbo]

I think I’ve made my case for both Wood and Cork very clear. Hugely influential

[Dark Cloud]

It's all down to Vydra! (imo)