The times they are a changing

[Colburn_Claret]

Well said. Let's not bother enforcing change, eh, leave it to be sorted out by the perpetrators not the government. Aye, that's working well, isn't it ?

All of the vulnerable have been vaccinated, those who haven't, if unlucky enough to have it passed on to them will deal with it just as we'll have to deal with Covid as we do the flu. In other words, a mild illness for a few days.

Well, regarding the tired, resentful old blokes that seem to make up a large part of this board, I'm not sure where they've been, what they've done and what t-shirt they've got but they seemed to have learned nothing on their travels.
Growing up is doing nowt, grumbling about the way of the world and tutting at those that get off their arses and do something, is it ?

Stay frightened, stay safe.

You can't enforce change, we live in a democracy. So the protestors aren't doing anything about it, other than being a royal pain in the arse. Which lets face it, is the main objective of the anarchists who hijack genuine protests.

It isn't that people don't share the frustrations felt by the women wanting to carry out the protest for Sarah Everard, we all share that pain, it's just that we know, it isn't going to change a damn thing.
If you really want to do something positive, go on the door steps in the local elections. Argue for better lighting at night. More CCTV cameras. More Police on the streets. Bigger sentences for offenders. But breaking lock down rules, to confront the Police does nothing.

[Devils_Advocate]

Correct.

Other than when there’s a is a pandemic people are free to protest in one of the most tolerant country’s in the world. It will be never enough for the libtards but they know there’s no better alternative elsewhere.

Youre the one who's been moaning and getting upset about people being different and our society catering for their needs. If it upsets you that much why dont you go and live in another country. I bet if you go to Russia or China you wont have to fill in a form about your sexuality

[RingoMcCartney]

Again are you deliberately being thick here. She was in an EU building which will obvious have flags and again you've picked an isolated incident.

If every EU representative started flying an EU flag in every interview even in their personal work and home environments I would have no problem with people finding it odd and starting to draw attention to it and mock it.

As I said if you are a true patriot maybe direct your anger towards the people in power like Jenrick who is using his position to broker dodgy deals and act in his own interest above the country of the flag he so proudly waves

So, to summarise.

Robert Jenrick was in his OFFICIAL UK government office. This is bad.

She was " in a EU building. " This is good.

And I'm the one "deliberately being thick here"!!!!!

[evensteadiereddie]

According to Colburn...

"You can't enforce change, we live in a democracy. So the protestors aren't doing anything about it, other than being a royal pain in the arse. Which lets face it, is the main objective of the anarchists who hijack genuine protests.

It isn't that people don't share the frustrations felt by the women wanting to carry out the protest for Sarah Everard, we all share that pain, it's just that we know, it isn't going to change a damn thing.
If you really want to do something positive, go on the door steps in the local elections. Argue for better lighting at night. More CCTV cameras. More Police on the streets. Bigger sentences for offenders. But breaking lock down rules, to confront the Police does nothing."



It creates the momentum for people to do exactly what you're suggesting at local level so it does work. Needs must - you cannot rely on a bunch of mainly self-serving politicians and their tired, gullible support to change anything.
Create a spark, upset people, don't conform and change will happen. Playing by the rules, especially those imposed by the government, will not work. Sometimes you have to take a risk and, in this case, a tiny risk for the greater good.
Sit on your backside, hate anything that is challenging , new or of a different colour and you'll be reyt.

[Devils_Advocate]

So, to summarise.

Robert Jenrick was in his OFFICIAL UK government office. This is bad.

She was " in a EU building. " This is good.

And I'm the one "deliberately being thick here"!!!!!

No to summarise 6 months ago the majority of Tory politicians did not have these flags in their home and work office. Now all of them do.

And to your final point yes!

Just to help you out on the other thing niggling you. There is a difference to what control you have on decorating your own personal constitutional/ministerial office and what control you have of decorating a large shared office space. Its not really the point though cos either way you seem far more comfortable with Jenrick's corruption than you do with some newsreaders making a quip at his expense

[Colburn_Claret]

Being proud to be British, hmmm, being proud of being born somewhere you had no choice in. What a great achievement!

By the same token, I'm proud I've got a nose.

We live in countries and states, that have to have laws we live by, for there to be freedom. Some countries are better than others.
A flag is a symbol. Flags identify ourselves, they identify the land we hold, and the laws we want to live by. So if you have an objection to a flag, then you can only have an objection to the country as well.
Is it just being British that you object too, or being identified with any country. Would you have the same issue if you were born in Germany, or France. Would you object to their flags just as much. Because if that's the case you are lost. You need to find a desert island somewhere, where you can set your own laws, your own rules, and do whatever you like. BUT you can't live in this or any other country, and live by your own rules. If you do that, then it's every man for himself. The strong would prey on the weak, the rich on the poor, the young on the old. That's why we need boundaries, to protect the weakest in society. It's why we have a flag to identify ourselves from other countries, it's why armies defend the flag, because it's a symbol of protecting our way of life.
You can poo poo it as much as you like, but you need it just as much as the weakest person in this country. If you think you don't you're just in denial. No man is an island.

[Colburn_Claret]

According to Colburn...

"You can't enforce change, we live in a democracy. So the protestors aren't doing anything about it, other than being a royal pain in the arse. Which lets face it, is the main objective of the anarchists who hijack genuine protests.

It isn't that people don't share the frustrations felt by the women wanting to carry out the protest for Sarah Everard, we all share that pain, it's just that we know, it isn't going to change a damn thing.
If you really want to do something positive, go on the door steps in the local elections. Argue for better lighting at night. More CCTV cameras. More Police on the streets. Bigger sentences for offenders. But breaking lock down rules, to confront the Police does nothing."



It creates the momentum for people to do exactly what you're suggesting at local level so it does work. Needs must - you cannot rely on a bunch of mainly self-serving politicians and their tired, gullible support to change anything.
Create a spark, upset people, don't conform and change will happen. Playing by the rules, especially those imposed by the government, will not work. Sometimes you have to take a risk and, in this case, a tiny risk for the greater good.
Sit on your backside, hate anything that is challenging , new or of a different colour and you'll be reyt.

It creates no momentum Eddie, because as soon as the mob take over, any message they were trying to deliver is lost. It's no longer about Sarah Everard and women's safety, it's about the Police and heavy handed control. It's about idiots in balaclavas spray painting monuments.
I've said already on this thread, no one is objecting to protests. Peaceful and in the right time and place. You just want anarchy.

[timshorts]

To be fair, when the Germans illlegally invaded different countries, killing those that opposed them etc etc. They generally used a different flag than the one that they use now, whereas the British persecuted the pink parts of the world they using the one now seen as a Boris backdrop.

I guess we have different views of what that thing represents, but in my view it represents much that is bad as well as much that is good. It doesn't represent me though, thanks.

[Devils_Advocate]

I'm happy to called "deliberately thick" . I'd rather be "deliberately thick" than inconsistent and hypocritical.!

Here's some nice people proudly carrying flags of a state and banners with a quote, and a portrait of a tyrant responsible for the deaths of at least 20 million people.

Whoooah Je..re....my Corbyn!!

Linking this to Corbyn is getting desperate now. You're still also missing the point. There is nothing wrong with the use of the English, Scottish, Welsh or British flag.

Go to the Olympics or a Veteran parade or a royal visit or an official Prime Minister address and this is all fine. In fact the list is endless of where we see the flags and noone has any issue.

The problem is that the Govt are using the flag as a propaganda tool to cause division and hatred when they should be bringing the country together.

Still when you get more upset at Corbyn for something unrelated to him than you do of Jenrick's corruption and dodgy deals we know you are not a true patriot who loves and will defend his country

Just to illustrate my point about how contrived the Tory MPs use of the Union flag is here is some evidence that the flag behind Jenrick was brought is as a prop especially for his TV appearance

Now you see it


Now you dont

[Pstotto]

India got their karma.

They can't say that they didn't.

British Empire ruled OK.

So says all of us, 99.9%.

[Jakubclaret]

The most worrying thing about living in these times, is that there are people who think like you, who are incapable of seeing that you're wrong.
Why don't you ask Sadik Khan why women can't walk around the streets of London without being molested, instead of blaming the government, and its lack of empathy. Society is the problem, but that gets addressed in the home, not in Parliament.
And yes, I know women get assaulted in other areas of the country other than London, but your maths, that holding an illegal protest, will in any way lead to fewer attacks in the future, just doesn't add up.
I think the vast majority of this board, support the right to protest, but only in a non violent way, in an appropriate time and place.
Calling out thousands of resentful, tired old blokes, is simply wrong. It's because they've been there, done that and got the t shirt. Experience shows that these demonstrations, especially the ones that turn anti establishment, are futile. You've got a lot of growing up to do, before you have the wit to call out anyone on this board.

It’s clearly apparent that I’m not the only person that thinks he’s got a lot of “growing up to do” the naivety is absolutely astounding concerning such a serious subject.

[Pstotto]

Remember this England bashing is directed BY the English, nobody else, to blame you and I for Aristorcrat shenanigans, we play, you pay.

[Pstotto]

Given Rotherham, do I need to go on,if there had been an Indian Empire here?????? And that's now.

I have no problems whatsoever about nuking Asia from Cyprus to Hokkaido and I'm happy to press the button now. Right now, if I could.

No regrets at all.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Given Rotherham, do I need to go on,if there had been an Indian Empire here?????? And that's now.

I have no problems whatsoever about nuking Asia from Cyprus to Hokkaido and I'm happy to press the button now. Right now, if I could.

No regrets at all.

Stay classy.

[Rileybobs]

Given Rotherham, do I need to go on,if there had been an Indian Empire here?????? And that's now.

I have no problems whatsoever about nuking Asia from Cyprus to Hokkaido and I'm happy to press the button now. Right now, if I could.

No regrets at all.

Where would you get your opium from?

[Boss Hogg]

Yes, this board is adequate proof of how we are one of the most tolerant "country's"...........

Hardly think a message board is a good gauge but if you really don’t think this country is tolerant compared to many others in the world I think it is a strange viewpoint..

[Pstotto]

Tolerant, means pro-****.

Thanks to Bordeaux for the praise and ask Whitehall about the opium, they're on it.

[Jakubclaret]

Where would you get your opium from?

Is it possible for you to leave drug references out from counter posts, yesterday it was acid with me, today “opium”with somebody else, tomorrow will it be cocaine day for somebody else, I guess on the current trend it will be!

[Swizzlestick]

No issue with a poster opining he’d happily carpet bomb Asia but the drugs references? You’ve crossed a line pal!

[Pstotto]

If we don't destroy India and China now, they will destroy us. No doubt. And the world.

Lay waste their countries so they never come back and do it now.

And no more backward muppet rule of us, from the stone age.

[Boss Hogg]

Youre the one who's been moaning and getting upset about people being different and our society catering for their needs. If it upsets you that much why dont you go and live in another country. I bet if you go to Russia or China you wont have to fill in a form about your sexuality

Really I’m not ‘upset’. I’m happy for and accepting that people that are different. It would be very dull if we were all the same. It’s the constant barrage of ‘look at me I’m different and I will shout it from the roof tops’. It’s a media circus. Look at me from now on I’m referred to as ‘they’ and by the way I have a new album out next week. Organisations trying to pander to it and having categories for every minority group under the sun to prove how on trend and all encompassing they are. The public sector will soon be employing staff to ensure they are up on their quotas of Swahili speaking people who identify as fridges. Just be different without ramming it in everyone else’s face.

[Devils_Advocate]

Really I’m not ‘upset’. I’m happy for and accepting that people that are different. It would be very dull if we were all the same. It’s the constant barrage of ‘look at me I’m different and I will shout it from the roof tops’. It’s a media circus. Look at me from now on I’m referred to as ‘they’ and by the way I have a new album out next week. Organisations trying to pander to it and having categories for every minority group under the sun to prove how on trend and all encompassing they are. The public sector will soon be employing staff to ensure they are up on their quotas of Swahili speaking people who identify as fridges. Just be different without ramming it in everyone else’s face.

I think the majority of the issues you see are just inside your head. It feels like its your own invented problem so I seriously hope you can come to terms with it as for all the disagreement and poking fun you seem like a good bloke

[evensteadiereddie]

It’s clearly apparent that I’m not the only person that thinks he’s got a lot of “growing up to do” the naivety is absolutely astounding concerning such a serious subject.

Oh no, the ever so adult Jakub is now spouting forth about naivety in serious subjects..................such irony.
You carry on swallowing all the guff that you're fed, counsellor.....

[evensteadiereddie]

"It's no longer about Sarah Everard and women's safety, it's about the Police and heavy handed control. It's about idiots in balaclavas spray painting monuments."

It is if you and your gang want it to be, Colburn....

[RingoMcCartney]

Either deliberately or stupidly ignoring that this wasnt an isolated incident but the straw that broke the camels back after an obviously contrived decision for all Tory politicians to have the flag waving behind them to appeal to those who put waving a flag and being proud to be British ahead of actually serving the country.

Any true patriot would be more concerned about Jenrick's corrupt past (and present) than a couple of news presenters mocking this weird Tory policy of suddenly having to place a flag in view whenever you are on TV

Bloody Tories eh!?

[RingoMcCartney]

S'like shelling peas this!

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Really I’m not ‘upset’. I’m happy for and accepting that people that are different. It would be very dull if we were all the same. It’s the constant barrage of ‘look at me I’m different and I will shout it from the roof tops’. It’s a media circus. Look at me from now on I’m referred to as ‘they’ and by the way I have a new album out next week. Organisations trying to pander to it and having categories for every minority group under the sun to prove how on trend and all encompassing they are. The public sector will soon be employing staff to ensure they are up on their quotas of Swahili speaking people who identify as fridges. Just be different without ramming it in everyone else’s face.

So this goes back to my previous comment.

It's far better to hide who you are than to be open about it according to some.

We've lived like that before, it caused far more harm than good.

[Devils_Advocate]

S'like shelling peas this!

You haven't shelled one yet.

Ive explained the problem isnt the flag but the sudden tactical use of it as a propaganda tool. The root of this discussion isn't even that people have a problem with the Tory's adopting National Front style tactics.

The issue is people like you trying to create some mock outrage over some news presenters finding it amusing that the Tory's have a policy to bring in flags as props for every tv interview

I think your outrage would be better directed towards the corruption that Jenrick has been part of but ever the true patriot you continue to side step corruption and focus on meaningless things that dont even challenge or contradict my viewpoint.

If when the referendum was on had every remain MP come to interviews dressed like the photo you shared of Emily Thornbury I as you

a) do you think it would have been mentioned and people would have made jokes at their expense?
b) if the answer to a is yes would you be upset and outraged?

[claret2018]

It’s incredible how easy it is to get gullible people to support a party that actively hates them. I almost admire the Tories for their brass neck.

[taio]

Political threads are banned.

[evensteadiereddie]

Apparently not.

[fidelcastro]

We live in countries and states, that have to have laws we live by, for there to be freedom. Some countries are better than others.
A flag is a symbol. Flags identify ourselves, they identify the land we hold, and the laws we want to live by. So if you have an objection to a flag, then you can only have an objection to the country as well.
Is it just being British that you object too, or being identified with any country. Would you have the same issue if you were born in Germany, or France. Would you object to their flags just as much. Because if that's the case you are lost. You need to find a desert island somewhere, where you can set your own laws, your own rules, and do whatever you like. BUT you can't live in this or any other country, and live by your own rules. If you do that, then it's every man for himself. The strong would prey on the weak, the rich on the poor, the young on the old. That's why we need boundaries, to protect the weakest in society. It's why we have a flag to identify ourselves from other countries, it's why armies defend the flag, because it's a symbol of protecting our way of life.
You can poo poo it as much as you like, but you need it just as much as the weakest person in this country. If you think you don't you're just in denial. No man is an island.

Go on then, where did I say I objected to being British? You've just made up something about me that I've never even thought, let alone said.

As for your bilge about flags, I simply see them as a symbol of identifying a certain country or organisation and that’s about it. I love your assertion that armies defend the flag. Does that apply when we or any other country choose to invade another one, or does it not count in that scenario?

[evensteadiereddie]

I don’t claim to be a counsellor currently, I’ve previously worked counselling on domestic violence cases for about a decade & it was paid employment, despite my experience & knowledge it’s futile engaging with you because you clearly know better Eddie, you’ve got all the answers & solutions to this problem.

"Despite my experience and knowledge"............any chance of you actually using them ?


"it’s futile engaging with you because you clearly know better Eddie".....Well done, lad, you got there in the end.