Is there any point in sacking a manager with nine games left?

[ecc]

Thinking of Bruce it's true but, as a general rule, do people think it's too late to turn situations around?

[ClaretTony]

Thinking of Bruce it's true but, as a general rule, do people think it's too late to turn situations around?

It’s whether you can get someone in who gets that honeymoon period. If so it could make a short term difference.

[bobinho]

I don’t know...

What I DO know (but without being able to prove it) is that if we had potted SD with 8 games left, not only would we still have gone down, I doubt very much we would’ve bounced back.

Both us and Norwich (they are up realistically) have proved getting rid of the manager isn’t always the right thing to do.

[KRBFC]

Newcastle desperately need that bounce to get them over the line, they look doomed otherwise imo.

[jurek]

If the relationship between manager and players has broken down
to the point where they're not giving their all for the team
then arguably it's not too late to get rid.
But it doesn't always or even often happen that way.
Sometimes it's the relationship between manager and chairman/management.
Don't think that's the case at Newcastle.

Chris Wilder got the push at Sheff. United and it looks as if the players
have given up as a result.

[tiger76]

Thinking of Bruce it's true but, as a general rule, do people think it's too late to turn situations around?

Generally I'd agree with you, but talking about Bruce in particular if he's lost the dressing room, and the players aren't grafting for him, which judging by their dire display at Brighton could be true, then I don't see what other option is open to Ashley, but any new manager would have to get an immediate response out of the players as the games are fast running out.

From our POV I sincerely hope they don't pot Bruce just before we play them, as they could conceivably get the typical new manager bounce, but after their horror show yesterday I can see why Mike Ashley might pull the trigger, now normally at such a situation you'd call BFS, but he's far too busy taking West Brom down.

And if Bruce is too be potted the international break would be the logical time to do it, at least any incoming caretaker would get the benefit of a few extra days with the squad, but the biggest issue for Newcastle is getting their injured players fit for the finale, if they can get a few of their big boys back they may still have a chance whoever is in the dugout.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It took WBA a long time to get going under Big Sam, too long in fact because I can't see them staying up.

There's no guarantee that potting Bruce will have the desired effect either at Newcastle.

They've also gone down this route before, years ago, giving Shearer 10 games...

I can't think of a manager who'd be desperate enough to take that job.

[elwaclaret]

A bounce could be all important, if they get one.... it has to be a temporary appointment if the takeover is still the objective, unless one is close and they can have an input. They need to compensate Bruce which will not come cheap either... on the available NOW list Wilder? Already talk of him taking over at West Brom. Shearer hates Ashley so he’s as unlikely even if not happy just picking up off the beeb. So maybe they have to offer a club compo.... all stacked against the possibility it will not work and then Ashley is stuck with a manager and club he wants out off, compensation just as the money tap is turned from Luke warm to cold and a bigger wage bill than ever.

[KRBFC]

It took WBA a long time to get going under Big Sam, too long in fact because I can't see them staying up.

There's no guarantee that potting Bruce will have the desired effect either at Newcastle.

They've also gone down this route before, years ago, giving Shearer 10 games...

I can't think of a manager who'd be desperate enough to take that job.

They literally can't get worse though

[GodIsADeeJay81]

They literally can't get worse though

They can tbh.

A lot of people are also ignoring their injury list, no manager is going to be able to do much different until those players are back.

[huw.Y.WattfromWare]

Bruce didn’t get the job on talent. He got it cos Ashley wanted a cosy fit whilst he searches for a buyer. That’s why Ashley has said he is not getting potted, demonstrations or otherwise. When has Ashley ever bothered about demonstrations?
Bruce just isn’t good enough for the PL but a top Championship manager.

[dsr]

If the relationship between manager and players has broken down
to the point where they're not giving their all for the team
then arguably it's not too late to get rid.
But it doesn't always or even often happen that way.
Sometimes it's the relationship between manager and chairman/management.
Don't think that's the case at Newcastle.

Chris Wilder got the push at Sheff. United and it looks as if the players
have given up as a result.

Wilder wanted to go. He would have gone sooner but he wanted his contract partly paid as well. The owner (officially at least, though it may have been just a negotiating position) said he wanted Wilder to stay.

As for the first para, I agree - if the players are so unprofessional that they aren't properly trying, then a new manager might help. But then you need a big clear out of the dodgy players before next season, or you'll be in the same position next time.

[Chester Perry]

I don’t know...

What I DO know (but without being able to prove it) is that if we had potted SD with 8 games left, not only would we still have gone down, I doubt very much we would’ve bounced back.

Both us and Norwich (they are up realistically) have proved getting rid of the manager isn’t always the right thing to do.

That is because both us and Norwich had a long term plan, that involved more than the first team and stuck to it, in some ways Norwich are further along after 3 season s than we were under Sean, but both clubs have an identity and a plan running from the boardroom down throughout the whole club, Sean wobbled a bit on that on in the last 18 months, but the plan was essentially deemed more important than the board so they have been replaced, the plan has not really changed for us as far as I have seen, though the managers instance on contract renewals for some may have an impact over the next 18 months.

[gc14]

I spoke to a 'Toon' i know and in his opinion Graham Jones was brought in to do Bruce's job in a sort of Jonathan Woodgate
scenario but Newcastle can't afford to sack Bruce and he won't resign .. He makes the tea and does interviews ..

[claretonthecoast1882]

They could always sack him and get Shearer in, someone who cares for the club and the fans will dribble over

[claretblue]

I can't think of a manager who'd be desperate enough to take that job.

...Coyle to Newcastle!

[Boss Hogg]

Watford shouldn’t have potted Pearson when they did as I think they would have had enough in the tank to stay up. I think Bruce is a decent guy and an honest manager but think Newcastle need a short term lift and should probably get someone else in. Considering how much money they have spent they looked poor the other night. I bet their wage bill is astronomic too.

[MACCA]

They need 3 wins to stay up youd think.

They have the games to do it, just not together, which when a new manager gets a bounce its usually within a 2 or 3 game period.

I just hope they dont pot him before they play us.
After a beating by us would be the ideal time for us.

[Tall Paul]

There's no such thing as a new manager bounce.

[NottsClaret]

A lot of people are also ignoring their injury list, no manager is going to be able to do much different until those players are back.

Fair point that. So much is made about managers, but for clubs outside the big 6, how many injuries you get to key players is a huge factor. It was said last week, if Mee and Tarks had been out as long as Sheff Utd's centre halves we'd be joining them. Newcastle weren't that bad when they had Maxim and Wilson. Just look at Villa's form without Grealish and imagine that over a season.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Fair point that. So much is made about managers, but for clubs outside the big 6, how many injuries you get to key players is a huge factor. It was said last week, if Mee and Tarks had been out as long as Sheff Utd's centre halves we'd be joining them. Newcastle weren't that bad when they had Maxim and Wilson. Just look at Villa's form without Grealish and imagine that over a season.

They mentioned Villas form without Grealish last night, they've only won once I think they said when he's been out.

[The Enclosure]

I dont believe Newcastle will be relegated..I think Fulham along with SU and WBA.

[Spijed]

Fair point that. So much is made about managers, but for clubs outside the big 6, how many injuries you get to key players is a huge factor. It was said last week, if Mee and Tarks had been out as long as Sheff Utd's centre halves we'd be joining them. Newcastle weren't that bad when they had Maxim and Wilson. Just look at Villa's form without Grealish and imagine that over a season.

On the flip side to that, I doubt Sheff United would have survived comfortably had they had everyone fit this season. Signing Brewster has been a big mistake.

[beddie]

They could always sack him and get Shearer in, someone who cares for the club and the fans will dribble over

Didn't they try that last time and they still went down? They're not shipping loads of goals, it's the other end that requires attention. Trying to think who's available in the short term if they did sack Bruce, can only think of Lamps,Eddie or Wilder.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Didn't they try that last time and they still went down? They're not shipping loads of goals, it's the other end that requires attention. Trying to think who's available in the short term if they did sack Bruce, can only think of Lamps,Eddie or Wilder.

They did, but imagine the humour if the living legend took them down twice

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Interesting comment on the radio last night.

"Ashley has given the fans what they wanted in terms of managers over the years and it hasn't always worked out well, see Keegan & Shearer.
Now he's doing it his way because rightly so its his club to do with as he wants. "

[GordonvaleClaret]

By coincidence, an article popped up on my phone a couple of weeks ago. It was about the tactic of sacking a manager/coach. A worldwide study across all major professional sports looked at around 400 instances in recent times. It concluded that in over 90% of cases, team performances significantly improved, achieving better results, for up to 10 games.
So, 9 games to go - sack the b*****.

[IanMcL]

Depends on what is actually the state of play behind the scenes.
Nothing more or less.

[jojomk1]

There's no guarantee that potting Bruce will have the desired effect either at Newcastle.
I can't think of a manager who'd be desperate enough to take that job.

There would be literally 100's of applicants

Even a 2 year deal on £1m+ equates to average Joe's expected earnings in a lifetime

If it did happen the new guy would be in a win/win situation ie can't be blamed for relegation and a hero if he keeps them up

[ClaretTony]

I spoke to a 'Toon' i know and in his opinion Graham Jones was brought in to do Bruce's job in a sort of Jonathan Woodgate
scenario but Newcastle can't afford to sack Bruce and he won't resign .. He makes the tea and does interviews ..

A lot of suggestion that Jones has worsened the problem since he basically came in and took over.

[KRBFC]

They can tbh.

A lot of people are also ignoring their injury list, no manager is going to be able to do much different until those players are back.

They didn't even break sweat in their last game, I refuse to believe they could possibly put in less effort under a new manager.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

They didn't even break sweat in their last game, I refuse to believe they could possibly put in less effort under a new manager.

You didn't mention new manager in your original comment.

However, WBA didn't have an immediate bounce when Sam rocked up, it took them ages.

Newcastles players could well be beyond caring now, especially as their contracts don't have relegation clauses in them, as revealed from the signing of Hendrick.
They can go through the motions for the next 9 games and the geordies will still blame Ashley or Bruce.

[Elizabeth]

I doubt it’s Jones that has directly made the problem worse , I think it’s more likely a case that the Newcastle players would rather have Bruce sacked and Jones take over until the end of the season.

[KRBFC]

You didn't mention new manager in your original comment.

However, WBA didn't have an immediate bounce when Sam rocked up, it took them ages.

Newcastles players could well be beyond caring now, especially as their contracts don't have relegation clauses in them, as revealed from the signing of Hendrick.
They can go through the motions for the next 9 games and the geordies will still blame Ashley or Bruce.

It's not even about a guaranteed bounce, it's about Newcastle cannot get any worse under a new manager, they're sleep walking towards relegation under Bruce. They need to hope for a new manager bounce, even if the new manager can get 30% effort out of the group it would be an improvement. If they stay up or go down it doesn't matter, the fans don't want Bruce and never did.

Why wouldn't they blame Ashley or Bruce?
football fans want results and decent football, if it isn't happening fans will quite rightly criticize the people in power (owner/manager).

[ClaretTony]

I doubt it’s Jones that has directly made the problem worse , I think it’s more likely a case that the Newcastle players would rather have Bruce sacked and Jones take over until the end of the season.

Jones worked well with Martinez but was a disaster as manager at Luton and Bournemouth didn’t do much to try and stop him going to Newcastle. It seems to have split the camp.

[EricaJacko]

Depends on many variables. The window is closed, but all Newcastle need is a bit of fire in their belly, which a new manager can create, and they'll stay up. So well worth it.

SU, there's another angle to look at. Give the new manager plenty of games and then a transfer window, so also makes sense.

[dsr]

Depends on many variables. The window is closed, but all Newcastle need is a bit of fire in their belly, which a new manager can create, and they'll stay up. So well worth it.

SU, there's another angle to look at. Give the new manager plenty of games and then a transfer window, so also makes sense.

Wouldn't count on it. Certainly there is plenty of scope for putting fire into their bellies, because there was no sign of any of that v Brighton. But even if they get fired up, they still have to score some goals, and they have some tough fixtures left.

[EricaJacko]

Wouldn't count on it. Certainly there is plenty of scope for putting fire into their bellies, because there was no sign of any of that v Brighton. But even if they get fired up, they still have to score some goals, and they have some tough fixtures left.

But it's better than doing nothing.

[jedi_master]

If I was a Newcastle fan, I’d be wanting Bruce sacked. Will it have the required effect? I’m not sure, but for me they’re going down as things stand. Their squad has terrible injuries, their fixture list is horrible and they’re turning out performances which to me do nothing to say they’re playing for the manager.

Nothing against Bruce personally as a person, I just think they really should have decided to throw the dice - particularly with this international break. I cannot see a way back for them and think they’ll be relegated before the final day.