England vs Poland

[joey13]

Well said Roy Keane

[Carport]

Well done Roy Keane standing up for Popey

[WazzaClaret]

Funny how its an irish fella wanting the best for the english national team...

[joey13]

I can't see what he offers TBH.

You can’t see what Foden offers , give me strength

[expoultryboy]

Southgate's an idiot . He says fatigue was showing but he didn't make any changes until the last 5 minutes !!

[boatshed bill]

Not sure how anyone can blame Southgate for popes poor distribution.

Do you think Liverpool, city etc... would change tactics if they signed Pope.
No they would expect the player to adapt.

It’s just an unfortunate event, Pope will either be given a second chance or Southgate will look for players that suit his tactics.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's Nick's last England game, TBH.
Unfortunately he hasn't had the chance to showcase what he does well, leaving every observer/pundit with every opportunity to see what he doesn't do well.

[karatekid]

Pope didn’t have much chance to show off his real skills in the last 3 games due to the opposition and the quality of players in front of him. Unfortunately all his game time seemed to be predominantly focused on his weakest point with the ball at his feet and that is all people will remember. It’s a shame he didn’t have any shots to tip over the bar or many crosses to come out for.
Pickford shines for England because of his ability with his feet as shot stopping is rare for English keepers until they play the top countries.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

You can’t see what Foden offers , give me strength

That was the first time I’ve watched Foden outside of Man City. I was never really impressed before, just assumed he was surrounded by world class players.

Really stood out to me how incisive his passing is. And that low centre of gravity he’s a real handful.

[boatshed bill]

Pope didn’t have much chance to show off his real skills in the last 3 games due to the opposition and the quality of players in front of him. Unfortunately all his game time seemed to be predominantly focused on his weakest point with the ball at his feet and that is all people will remember. It’s a shame he didn’t have any shots to tip over the bar or many crosses to come out for.
Pickford shines for England because of his ability with his feet as shot stopping is rare for English keepers until they play the top countries.

Exactly.

[Goodclaret]

I'm sorry, but whoever the 'keeper was tonight, if they made that pass to Stones it wouldn't be the 'keepers' fault. Stones immediately apologised after HIS error. It's as though everyone (apart from Keane!) seems to want to blame Pope. Just a total nonsense.

[boatshed bill]

You can’t see what Foden offers , give me strength

Have as much strength as you need, Joey.
Typical modern player who looks good but actually delivers precious little.
Having said that it could be applied to several other England players on tonight's showing.

[Goodclaret]

You can’t see what Foden offers , give me strength

Foden is absolute class. His touch and awareness is the best I've seen from an England player in a long, long time. Luckily for us, he will get even better!

[EricaJacko]

Roy Keane says what other people are just too scared to say.

Fair play.

[Bin Ont Turf]

Some of these who played tonight just aren't good enough for international football.

Tippy tappy characterless football.

[scouseclaret]

I'm sorry, but whoever the 'keeper was tonight, if they made that pass to Stones it wouldn't be the 'keepers' fault. Stones immediately apologised after HIS error. It's as though everyone (apart from Keane!) seems to want to blame Pope. Just a total nonsense.

The problem with the media - and you see it everywhere, not just sport - is there’s always a narrative, and whatever happens is always viewed through that lens. The narrative around Pope, right from the off, has been, “he’s poor with his feet” so every time he plays, that’s what’s under scrutiny. So, when the centre half makes a(nother) crass error, it’s the keeper’s fault for a poor/ill judged pass.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Total rubbish tonight, England, and the commentary team and pundits (Keane excepted).

The ex-England pundits (Wright, Dixon, Cole) were all apologists for a poor England team. Only Keane said it as it was.

Rashford, Sancho, Grealish - missed them desperately. Sterling, Mount, Foden - all good, but not good enough at this level (yet, for the latter two, who just lack a little variety and directness).

The defence is useless at tapping the ball around - the reason Pope looked uncomfortable so often in 2 games was Harry having a panic and sticking on Pope’s left foot all the time, even that pass to Stones was with Pope’s left. I saw nothing tonight to say we will get past the quarter finals in the summer.

[boatshed bill]

Roy Keane says what other people are just too scared to say.

Fair play.

What did he say?

[Goodclaret]

The problem with the media - and you see it everywhere, not just sport - is there’s always a narrative, and whatever happens is always viewed through that lens. The narrative around Pope, right from the off, has been, “he’s poor with his feet” so every time he plays, that’s what’s under scrutiny. So, when the centre half makes a(nother) crass error, it’s the keeper’s fault for a poor/ill judged pass.

Very true. It's just very frustrating for Pope as he really should be given the chance as he's pretty dam good at keeping that round thing from going in that netty thing behind him

[boatshed bill]

The problem with the media - and you see it everywhere, not just sport - is there’s always a narrative, and whatever happens is always viewed through that lens. The narrative around Pope, right from the off, has been, “he’s poor with his feet” so every time he plays, that’s what’s under scrutiny. So, when the centre half makes a(nother) crass error, it’s the keeper’s fault for a poor/ill judged pass.

Scouse,
It's not just the media.
You only have to come on here after a game, or join in the "Pope for England" threads to realise that

[EricaJacko]

What did he say?

He was neutral.

Not saying anything more, but the papers could have a field day over it, in how he clearly didn't go with the rules in what was ordered.

[tiger76]

Total rubbish tonight, England, and the commentary team and pundits (Keane excepted).

The ex-England pundits (Wright, Dixon, Cole) were all apologists for a poor England team. Only Keane said it as it was.

Rashford, Sancho, Grealish - missed them desperately. Sterling, Mount, Foden - all good, but not good enough at this level (yet, for the latter two, who just lack a little variety and directness).

The defence is useless at tapping the ball around - the reason Pope looked uncomfortable so often in 2 games was Harry having a panic and sticking on Pope’s left foot all the time, even that pass to Stones was with Pope’s left. I saw nothing tonight to say we will get past the quarter finals in the summer.

England played ok 1st half without creating many chances, but as soon as Poland upped their game after the break England looked edgy, and the equaliser wasn't a surprise to me, and it took a late set-piece goal to spare England's blushes, the stark reality is this squad is nowhere near good enough to challenge in the summer, but I think many knew that even before tonight's game, any half decent outfit will simply gobble England up, and I'm not even sure we'll reach as far as the quarter finals, in 2018 it took a lucky draw, and a penalty shoot out win to ensure England made the last 4, but that placing was flattering to say the least, and I've seen no evidence that England have improved significantly to mount a genuine challenge in the Euro's. And TBH I don't think it would make any difference whoever the manager was, so getting rid of Southgate won't solve all the problems overnight.

[Stacky_claret]

I'm sorry, but whoever the 'keeper was tonight, if they made that pass to Stones it wouldn't be the 'keepers' fault. Stones immediately apologised after HIS error. It's as though everyone (apart from Keane!) seems to want to blame Pope. Just a total nonsense.

None of them want to upset the apple cart
They all have their snouts in the trough

[Targetman]

.....any half decent side will simply gobble up England.....

A team like North Macedonia?

[boatshed bill]

He was neutral.

Not saying anything more, but the papers could have a field day over it, in how he clearly didn't go with the rules in what was ordered.

I may have a look on catch-up.

[tiger76]

.....any half decent side will simply gobble up England.....

A team like North Macedonia?

Well they have qualified for the Euro's so don't be too dismissive of them, remember Iceland in 2016 anyone.

[Stacky_claret]

Can I make a suggestion?

Watch the game without the claret specs on.

Pope has looked a shadow of his Burnley self.
Comments about Maguire are probably hinting at Tarks being better...

Come on Bill
They only had one shot on target you can hardly say he looked a shadow of his former self lol
And as for the shot / goal an average Sunday league player would have done better than stones

[Bigvince]

For many years England have flattered to deceive in qualifying, but been found out in both the euros and the World Cup. I would love the poor runs in finals to end, but I can’t in all honesty see it happening under Southgate.

[boatshed bill]

Come on Bill
They only had one shot on target you can hardly say he looked a shadow of his former self lol
And as for the shot / goal an average Sunday league player would have done better than stones

Actually, if you can replay the game, look at his prescence. I don't think he looked as confident, he's awesome for us.

[Devils_Advocate]

For many years England have flattered to deceive in qualifying, but been found out in both the euros and the World Cup. I would love the poor runs in finals to end, but I can’t in all honesty see it happening under Southgate.

It did end in Russia so the question is more can Southgate and England carry on the success they started

[Quickenthetempo]

Pope will have to deal with all this noise if he becomes the regular no.1. Pickford has had it for years where people go way over the top for a slight mistake.

I'm not sure how much good it will do him to be honest. Seems a quiet lad.

[boatshed bill]

Pope will have to deal with all this noise if he becomes the regular no.1. Pickford has had it for years where people go way over the top for a slight mistake.

I'm not sure how much good it will do him to be honest. Seems a quiet lad.

Quite honestly, the level of discussion and criticism of his distribution in recent weeks has been ridiculous.

[EricaJacko]

Quite honestly, the level of discussion and criticism of his distribution in recent weeks has been ridiculous.

You sound like a Brighton lass I know.

Don't worry, we will always disagree

[boatshed bill]

You sound like a Brighton lass I know.

Don't worry, we will always disagree

Are you sure it's a lass?

[Bigvince]

It did end in Russia so the question is more can Southgate and England carry on the success they started

We had a good run in Russia, but ultimately both times we faced teams ranked higher than us, we failed to make an impression.
We beat Tunisia and Panama and Sweden
And Columbia on penalties
Lost against Croatia and Belgium twice

[Devils_Advocate]

We had a good run in Russia, but ultimately both times we faced teams ranked higher than us, we failed to make an impression.
We beat Tunisia and Panama and Sweden
And Columbia on penalties
Lost against Croatia and Belgium twice

We were crap in 1990, had the easiest ever group to qualify from, had Cameroon in the QFs (when Africa football was nothing like the standard it is now) and only managed to win one game inside 90 mins all competition (Egypt) but thats not the point.

Your gripe was we always fail to have a good run in the tournament finals but the truth is we did in Russia in Southgates only tournament so far.

I like the way you cut out peoples bullsh*t on the Burnley threads (mine included) by sticking to the facts of the matter so dont slip in to bad ways and try and talk your way around the comment you made cos your postings are better than that

[Bigvince]

We were crap in 1990, had the easiest ever group to qualify from, had Cameroon in the QFs (when Africa football was nothing like the standard it is now) and only managed to win one game inside 90 mins all competition (Egypt) but thats not the point.

Your gripe was we always fail to have a good run in the tournament finals but the truth is we did in Russia in Southgates only tournament so far.

I like the way you cut out peoples bullsh*t on the Burnley threads (mine included) by sticking to the facts of the matter so dont slip in to bad ways and try and talk your way around the comment you made cos your postings are better than that

I accept your points, I just don’t feel that under Southgate We’ll be threatening the best sides ie Belgium Spain France and the likes.
Having said that I hope I’m completely wrong, and the crop of youngsters currently finding their feet at international level, turn out to be exceptional and not even Gareth Southgate can hold them back

[Devils_Advocate]

I accept your points, I just don’t feel that under Southgate We’ll be threatening the best sides ie Belgium Spain France and the likes.
Having said that I hope I’m completely wrong, and the crop of youngsters currently finding their feet at international level, turn out to be exceptional and not even Gareth Southgate can hold them back

I dont disagree much with that view and even if I did its a fair and honest opinion to hold so I wouldnt challenge it. Lets hope we are both pleasantly surprised come the Euros

[MT03ALG]

The mistake for the goal from Poland was from Stones. He had plenty of time to control the ball and pass it to a colleague. He was unable to carry out these basic things. Absolutely no fault of Nick Pope's whatsoever. Unfortunately the lack of control by Stones has blemished Nick's record.

[Duffer_]

I don't think Southgate has a personal bias against us or a dislike of us. He capped Heaton, Cork, Tarkowski and Pope and is in regular attendance at Turf Moor. That said, he should be more positive in his condemnation of lazy journos saying Burnley (or any other) players have to move to feature in his plans. I thought his comments on Kane and Spurs were pretty odd; it's a dangerous game for the England manager to get drawn into commenting on individual players' relationships with their clubs.

Pope does not instil confidence in the back four because of his kicking. Not an issue for us and he wasn't at fault for the Poland goal but I can see why there may be a reluctance by Southgate to play him for that reason.The more baffling selection is that he continues to ignore Tarkowski who I think should deputise for Maguire, who I also rate highly.

Southgate hit upon a style of fast counter-attacking football in Russia, supported by good set piece execution. To his credit, he got us playing without fear in those finals and that made a very welcome change. We briefly had an indentity in our playing style that I don't see at the moment, although the requirements of a qualifying campaign are very different to tournament finals. It can look harder than it needs to if you don't flex more against the weaker sides, and last night's lack of substitutions support the view that Southgate lacks tactical nous. He is also too negative in his approach as we seem to play two holding midfielders irrespective of the opposition.

We have a decent crop of players at the moment but so do a lot of national sides. I have been pleasantly surprised by the form of Rice and I think Mount and Grealish should be fixtures within the side. That said, we collectively over-estimate the relative ability of individual players and Southgate doesn't get more than the sum of the parts out of them. We regularly come up against technically better sides, or just hungrier streetfighters. The PL kids us that we are good enought to beat the best but at the same time softens us up for the hungrier teams.

We are what we always are, somewhere near a 32-1 shot at major finals. But as they say, it's the hope that kills you.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I don't think Southgate has a personal bias against us or a dislike of us. He capped Heaton, Cork, Tarkowski and Pope and is in regular attendance at Turf Moor. That said, he should be more positive in his condemnation of lazy journos saying Burnley (or any other) players have to move to feature in his plans. I thought his comments on Kane and Spurs were pretty odd; it's a dangerous game for the England manager to get drawn into commenting on individual players' relationships with their clubs.

Pope does not instil confidence in the back four because of his kicking. Not an issue for us and he wasn't at fault for the Poland goal but I can see why there may be a reluctance by Southgate to play him for that reason.The more baffling selection is that he continues to ignore Tarkowski who I think should deputise for Maguire, who I also rate highly.

Southgate hit upon a style of fast counter-attacking football in Russia, supported by good set piece execution. To his credit, he got us playing without fear in those finals and that made a very welcome change. We briefly had an indentity in our playing style that I don't see at the moment, although the requirements of a qualifying campaign are very different to tournament finals. It can look harder than it needs to if you don't flex more against the weaker sides, and last night's lack of substitutions support the view that Southgate lacks tactical nous. He is also too negative in his approach as we seem to play two holding midfielders irrespective of the opposition.

We have a decent crop of players at the moment but so do a lot of national sides. I have been pleasantly surprised by the form of Rice and I think Mount and Grealish should be fixtures within the side. That said, we collectively over-estimate the relative ability of individual players and Southgate doesn't get more than the sum of the parts out of them. We regularly come up against technically better sides, or just hungrier streetfighters. The PL kids us that we are good enought to beat the best but at the same time softens us up for the hungrier teams.

We are what we always are, somewhere near a 32-1 shot at major finals. But as they say, it's the hope that kills you.

A few really interesting points in there. I must admit Rice has really impressed me. He’s turning into a very very good player. If we can keep our better players fit for Euros we will have a good tournament.

Not sure I agree regarding Tarks, I wouldn’t put him in top 7-8 English CBs right now. Look at some of the lads that have missed out ahead of him. Konsa, Godfrey, Keane all better players.

[superdimitri]

A few really interesting points in there. I must admit Rice has really impressed me. He’s turning into a very very good player. If we can keep our better players fit for Euros we will have a good tournament.

Not sure I agree regarding Tarks, I wouldn’t put him in top 7-8 English CBs right now. Look at some of the lads that have missed out ahead of him. Konsa, Godfrey, Keane all better players.

Definitely agree with Rice, he looks a good player. Not quite sure what people have against him on here.
Tarkowski I'm not so sure about, I think he has a better defensive skillset than those players you mention, but I also think he's slower (pace, acceleration) which is something he gets away with for us but probably not for England playing higher up the pitch.